It's a given, I think, that the next 16GB iPod touch will be at most $229. The open question is will Apple move down to $199 to pressure MS's margins, like they did with iPod vs. Zune. MS may be big but Apple, as the biggest NAND consumer, gets better pricing on NAND flash than MS.
It's also a given that Apple will introduce the next iPod touch at least by Sept 15, and more likely, by Sept 9. The open question is will Apple have the intro before Labor Day, as some have rumored.
Finally, why oh why does the Zune HD home screen not fit the words "marketplace" and "more" within it? (I assume "more" is the last item on that list.) I know they want to make the touch area big enough to easily touch, but it just looks ugly.
I agree with you on the dates. Sept 9 will be earliest because the free iPod Touch with purchase of MacBook for College Students expires on Sept 8.
The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities. Sept 15 is the first Tuesday after Labor Day week and last year's "special event" was on the corresponding date so Sept 15 looks logical.
Agree with you cam, be nice to have full bluetooth (keyboard and more), mic, better build quality, built in invisible shield protection, screenshare client, shell access... Thing that gets me is that most people do not see that this os x touch 'model' is more likely to trickle up into higher end products than the other way around, giving everyone less control over the device and more cat and mouse games. already seeing choices being taken away, potentially being based on wireless carrier issues, which would have nothing to do with a wifi only device. Which, may make the Zune a better alternative if one can get a good build of linux/unix on it the Zune HD does look good, so it will be nice to have some competition in the market.
Oh, a corporate note, Apple has about 9 times as much cash per share as microsoft.
Yeah, I worry about the "trickle up" theory too. An App Store for the computers, where that would be the only place to buy software would be ridiculous. (No Adobe software since it competes with Aperture/Final Cut, unless Apple bought Adobe) I don't think Apple would be so bold as to go that far. Of course on the linux side one could argue they have an App Store already, YaST or Symantic Package Manager, or what ever the system openSUSE uses. Of course you can still find programs online outside of the repos and install them yourself.
But yeah, I hope the Zune HD holds its own. I love to see companies compete with Apple, regardless who they are. And yes, a linux distro for the Zune would be awesome!
(I keep thinking a linux distro for a Zune or iPod touch like device should be called ARM Candy.)
Ballmer: "I've got it - drop the price of W7 to $19. We'll fund Windows with the profits from Xbox, we'll fund XBox with the profits from Zune, We'll fund Zune with the profits from Windows, and fund Windows with the profits from FlightSim-Goes-To-11! We've invented the perpetual loss-leader motion machine!"
The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities.
I agree with you on the dates. Sept 9 will be earliest because the free iPod Touch with purchase of MacBook for College Students expires on Sept 8.
The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities. Sept 15 is the first Tuesday after Labor Day week and last year's "special event" was on the corresponding date so Sept 15 looks logical.
The fact that Apple products mostly appeal to lonely friendless elitists who don't socialise much is also a massive point against the Apple ecosystem that should be exploited
That's of course especially difficult to exploit effectively, existing as it does only in your head.
this new Zune would have been good competition for the Touch - in 2007. before the App Store changed the entire PMP marketplace forever in 2008 - which the Zune won't be able to copy until 2010 (and only IF it is compatible with Win Mobile 7). it is always two years behind.
the thousands of apps/games the Touch can/will play make it game/set/match/over before the the day even begins. the Zune will always remain an MS' "hobby."
also in passing:
- what is the ratio of buyers who really want a camera for snapshots like the new Touch compared to really want HD radio? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? 1000 to 1?
- exactly who besides geeks cares about whether the screen is OLED instead of LED more than they care about what is ON the screen?
- the only genuine killer feature still missing from the Touch is GPS/compass. maybe next year. that would have given the Zune some real competitive advantage. but it ain't got it either.
Let's see. They lose money on every XBox sold. Now they'll be losing money on every Zune sold. I wonder if they make anything on their mice or are those sold at a loss too?
In order to have a title of an "iPod Killer" the device have to have all what iPod have and tons of other features. So far Zune doesn't even sync to Mac.
I think it is too little too late for the Zune. While I would never wanted to be so naive as to say that there could never be another paradigm shift, I don't think it is going to come in the form of a Zune!
Microsoft must as a corporation be a masochist. They basically announce their product and pricing -- and Apple is about to revamp the iPod Touch. Apple will probably provide a 64GB Touch for the same price as this 32GB turd.
I like the idea of outputting 720p via a dock, especially as the MS 720p codec is pretty good (if it's the same as the Xbox Live codec).
I don't think this is going to seriously dent the iPod's sales though.
Yeah, as a 1-off feature, it's useful, but who in their right mind would think that people would flock to a PORTABLE MP3 player based on it's video output when connected to an HDTV?
Why no mention of the OLED screen? Isn't that kind of an important oversight? Anyway, the Ipod Touch will remain the leader regardless simply due to the App store. What would sweeten the pot though, would be the addition of Oled and a camera. Still good to have Microsoft doing their thing and doing it somewhat well with the new Zune.
The general public doesn't know what an OLED screen is, or an AMOLED, etc. All they know is what they see. Is the screen bright enough, is it sharp enough, is it big enough? How it gets there isn't important to anyone except us techies.
If the OLED screen helps MS lift the poor battery life problem they have with the Zune's, and they can advertise the longer life, then it will serve some purpose, but otherwise, no.
The new iPod Touch will supposedly have a camera and a microphone. Big upgrade over previous models.
Can Apple make a profit selling at those price point? Apple doesn't have a monopoly to fund money losing products. Apple can't afford to sell money losing products like the Zune which was introduced in 2006 and has lost money ever since.
Ah, you mean the fact that Apple barely makes any money on their music which they use to help sell ipods and iphones should be ignored?
Lets not forget all of the ipod touches that people get for free when buying almost any of the Macs being sold right now. This is two years in a row for this...I wouldn't be surprised if this is a yearly thing unless they start monopolizing the market.
Microsoft must as a corporation be a masochist. They basically announce their product and pricing -- and Apple is about to revamp the iPod Touch. Apple will probably provide a 64GB Touch for the same price as this 32GB turd.
As with Apple from time to time, this was obviously a mistake, and never should have been revealed.
When MS first released the Zune, they were shocked by the low pricing, and had to scrabble to lower the Zune price to match it. It was a major, and well publicized fiasco at the time. They even had the higher pricing locked into their retailers price lists, and had to change it.
So now they wait until Apple announces new pricing before they follow suit. But these prices look reasonable.
It's not likely Apple will come lower, but will be a bit higher. $299 for the 32GB model. It won't matter. People aren't going to make a decision on $9.99.
the Tegra GPU in it is supposed to be very nice. Microsoft's one advantage is that the Zune HD is new and doesn't have the installed base of the iPod Touch. they can pay developers to make nice graphically intensive games that look much better than the current ipod games simply because everyone is still coding for 1st gen Apple hardware due to the installed base
Unless something has changed MS has no currently announced plans to have apps or games on the Zune HD.
Hey! Who said competition isn't good for bringing prices down. Way to go Microsoft! Yeah! And, you know what? This Zune even looks nice. I can imagine business people really liking this thing.
There's nothing personal going on here. MS just wants to make money as everyone else does.
MS believes, as apparently does every other company in the position of selling to an entertainment an computer market, that this is an area of importance that will grow to immense proportions over the years, with a great deal of money to be made there.
MS being MS, they've tried to control it themselves. But MS being MS, they're finding that unless it involves Windows for computers, not mobile, and Office, they can't.
Once they move out of the area of their monopolies, they're no better than anyone else, and usually worse, despite their money.
Comments
It's a given, I think, that the next 16GB iPod touch will be at most $229. The open question is will Apple move down to $199 to pressure MS's margins, like they did with iPod vs. Zune. MS may be big but Apple, as the biggest NAND consumer, gets better pricing on NAND flash than MS.
It's also a given that Apple will introduce the next iPod touch at least by Sept 15, and more likely, by Sept 9. The open question is will Apple have the intro before Labor Day, as some have rumored.
Finally, why oh why does the Zune HD home screen not fit the words "marketplace" and "more" within it? (I assume "more" is the last item on that list.) I know they want to make the touch area big enough to easily touch, but it just looks ugly.
I agree with you on the dates. Sept 9 will be earliest because the free iPod Touch with purchase of MacBook for College Students expires on Sept 8.
The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities. Sept 15 is the first Tuesday after Labor Day week and last year's "special event" was on the corresponding date so Sept 15 looks logical.
.
Agree with you cam, be nice to have full bluetooth (keyboard and more), mic, better build quality, built in invisible shield protection, screenshare client, shell access... Thing that gets me is that most people do not see that this os x touch 'model' is more likely to trickle up into higher end products than the other way around, giving everyone less control over the device and more cat and mouse games. already seeing choices being taken away, potentially being based on wireless carrier issues, which would have nothing to do with a wifi only device. Which, may make the Zune a better alternative if one can get a good build of linux/unix on it
Oh, a corporate note, Apple has about 9 times as much cash per share as microsoft.
Yeah, I worry about the "trickle up" theory too. An App Store for the computers, where that would be the only place to buy software would be ridiculous. (No Adobe software since it competes with Aperture/Final Cut, unless Apple bought Adobe) I don't think Apple would be so bold as to go that far. Of course on the linux side one could argue they have an App Store already, YaST or Symantic Package Manager, or what ever the system openSUSE uses. Of course you can still find programs online outside of the repos and install them yourself.
But yeah, I hope the Zune HD holds its own. I love to see companies compete with Apple, regardless who they are. And yes, a linux distro for the Zune would be awesome!
(I keep thinking a linux distro for a Zune or iPod touch like device should be called ARM Candy.)
That worked great for XBox!
Ballmer: "I've got it - drop the price of W7 to $19. We'll fund Windows with the profits from Xbox, we'll fund XBox with the profits from Zune, We'll fund Zune with the profits from Windows, and fund Windows with the profits from FlightSim-Goes-To-11! We've invented the perpetual loss-leader motion machine!"
USPTO: "Next!"
The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities.
Me likey.
I agree with you on the dates. Sept 9 will be earliest because the free iPod Touch with purchase of MacBook for College Students expires on Sept 8.
The latest would be Sept 22 it seems because TomTom is supposedly introducing their navigation package on that date. That makes me wonder if the new iPod Touch will have GPS capabilities. Sept 15 is the first Tuesday after Labor Day week and last year's "special event" was on the corresponding date so Sept 15 looks logical.
.
Every one can get the free itouch and discount
EVERYONE .
no proof asked for at all .
The fact that Apple products mostly appeal to lonely friendless elitists who don't socialise much is also a massive point against the Apple ecosystem that should be exploited
That's of course especially difficult to exploit effectively, existing as it does only in your head.
this new Zune would have been good competition for the Touch - in 2007. before the App Store changed the entire PMP marketplace forever in 2008 - which the Zune won't be able to copy until 2010 (and only IF it is compatible with Win Mobile 7). it is always two years behind.
the thousands of apps/games the Touch can/will play make it game/set/match/over before the the day even begins. the Zune will always remain an MS' "hobby."
also in passing:
- what is the ratio of buyers who really want a camera for snapshots like the new Touch compared to really want HD radio? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? 1000 to 1?
- exactly who besides geeks cares about whether the screen is OLED instead of LED more than they care about what is ON the screen?
- the only genuine killer feature still missing from the Touch is GPS/compass. maybe next year. that would have given the Zune some real competitive advantage. but it ain't got it either.
ZUNE THE IPOD KILLER
i agree its all over for apple
the ZUNE and its LARGE accessory warehouses .
A brave new world of ZUNE SPEAK ..
i can now see the zune phones
zune computers
zune net books
zune kindles
zune garmens
gotta zune > see ya latrer
In order to have a title of an "iPod Killer" the device have to have all what iPod have and tons of other features. So far Zune doesn't even sync to Mac.
EPIC FAIL!
I think it is too little too late for the Zune. While I would never wanted to be so naive as to say that there could never be another paradigm shift, I don't think it is going to come in the form of a Zune!
Agreed!
I like the idea of outputting 720p via a dock, especially as the MS 720p codec is pretty good (if it's the same as the Xbox Live codec).
I don't think this is going to seriously dent the iPod's sales though.
Yeah, as a 1-off feature, it's useful, but who in their right mind would think that people would flock to a PORTABLE MP3 player based on it's video output when connected to an HDTV?
Why no mention of the OLED screen? Isn't that kind of an important oversight? Anyway, the Ipod Touch will remain the leader regardless simply due to the App store. What would sweeten the pot though, would be the addition of Oled and a camera. Still good to have Microsoft doing their thing and doing it somewhat well with the new Zune.
The general public doesn't know what an OLED screen is, or an AMOLED, etc. All they know is what they see. Is the screen bright enough, is it sharp enough, is it big enough? How it gets there isn't important to anyone except us techies.
If the OLED screen helps MS lift the poor battery life problem they have with the Zune's, and they can advertise the longer life, then it will serve some purpose, but otherwise, no.
The new iPod Touch will supposedly have a camera and a microphone. Big upgrade over previous models.
Can Apple make a profit selling at those price point? Apple doesn't have a monopoly to fund money losing products. Apple can't afford to sell money losing products like the Zune which was introduced in 2006 and has lost money ever since.
Ah, you mean the fact that Apple barely makes any money on their music which they use to help sell ipods and iphones should be ignored?
Lets not forget all of the ipod touches that people get for free when buying almost any of the Macs being sold right now. This is two years in a row for this...I wouldn't be surprised if this is a yearly thing unless they start monopolizing the market.
Microsoft must as a corporation be a masochist. They basically announce their product and pricing -- and Apple is about to revamp the iPod Touch. Apple will probably provide a 64GB Touch for the same price as this 32GB turd.
As with Apple from time to time, this was obviously a mistake, and never should have been revealed.
When MS first released the Zune, they were shocked by the low pricing, and had to scrabble to lower the Zune price to match it. It was a major, and well publicized fiasco at the time. They even had the higher pricing locked into their retailers price lists, and had to change it.
So now they wait until Apple announces new pricing before they follow suit. But these prices look reasonable.
It's not likely Apple will come lower, but will be a bit higher. $299 for the 32GB model. It won't matter. People aren't going to make a decision on $9.99.
the Tegra GPU in it is supposed to be very nice. Microsoft's one advantage is that the Zune HD is new and doesn't have the installed base of the iPod Touch. they can pay developers to make nice graphically intensive games that look much better than the current ipod games simply because everyone is still coding for 1st gen Apple hardware due to the installed base
Unless something has changed MS has no currently announced plans to have apps or games on the Zune HD.
MS just WANTS to hurt Apple, and is willing to break even or LOSE money to do so.
There's nothing personal going on here. MS just wants to make money as everyone else does.
There's nothing personal going on here. MS just wants to make money as everyone else does.
MS believes, as apparently does every other company in the position of selling to an entertainment an computer market, that this is an area of importance that will grow to immense proportions over the years, with a great deal of money to be made there.
MS being MS, they've tried to control it themselves. But MS being MS, they're finding that unless it involves Windows for computers, not mobile, and Office, they can't.
Once they move out of the area of their monopolies, they're no better than anyone else, and usually worse, despite their money.