Doesn't the two different kernels require separate drivers for both? That could get confusing with third parties. I thought the main difference between Leopard and Snow Leopard (as far as the OS architecture) was Leopard's 32 bit kernel since everything else is already 64 bit. I have a Penryn / Santa Rosa Macbook (4,1). Will it be fully 64 bit?
They do require separate drivers, which is one reason why Windows going 64-bit was wrought with so many issues. They had a separate 32-bit and 64-bit installation so if you didn?t have the 64-bit driver the HW wouldn?t work. Apple has made it very easy to jump back to 32-bit OS with a restart and holding down of the 3 and 2 keys (6 and 4 keys to get back to 64-bit). The drivers that are 64-bit are also 32-bit capable, too, which makes it easy.
So far, your MacBook and my MacBook Pro hasn?t supported a 64-bit kernel. We?ll see what the results are after the next Beta, but it been more than enough time for them to add it by now, so it doesn?t look good.
It isn't just the cpu. I believe the chipset must be 64 bit as well, And you can have a 64 bit cpu with a 32 bit chipset. That could be the limiting factor with some of these machines. I don't remember for certain, but I think Intel had 32 bit chipsets with the first 64 bit chips.
The supporting chipset need not be 64-bit in order to run 64-bit apps, but it is possibly required to run the 64-bit kernel. A 32-bit chipset just won't run 64-bit applications as fast as if a 64-bit chipset was present.
I believe a 64-bit EFI is also required to run the 64-bit kernel, but again the EFI doesn't matter for running 64-bit apps.
So... who knows of any Apple laptops that use a 64-bit EFI?
The supporting chipset need not be 64-bit in order to run 64-bit apps, but it is possibly required to run the 64-bit kernel. A 32-bit chipset just won't run 64-bit applications as fast as if a 64-bit chipset was present.
I believe a 64-bit EFI is also required to run the 64-bit kernel, but again the EFI doesn't matter for running 64-bit apps.
So... who knows of any Apple laptops that use a 64-bit EFI?
You could try to download GLView and it'll tell you what OpenGL version is supported. Although of course you need an nVidia 8000 series or ATI HD2000 series and up for hardware support.
That is only CPU support. I think the issue might be that Apple doesn't want to bother writing and supporting so many 64-bit drivers. Since all the drivers for built-in hardware are written by Apple, if they don't write them then you are stuck. Even if the kernel would technically run on any 64-bit compatible CPU and chipset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru
Can 64-bit apps run in a 32-bit kernel?
Yes. Leopard already does so. And even Tiger supported 64-bit apps as long as the 64-bit parts are spun off in non-GUI worker threads. Mathematica supported 64-bit in Tiger, for both PowerPC and Intel although I believe 64-bit PowerPC has been discontinued.
So, when I go into the store and find my favorite ice cream on sale I will just steal it because hey the store can make it's money elsewhere. Yeah, right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147
Yeah hopefully, but not really. They can make their money elsewhere.
I hope us 32-bit Core Duo users get a little love. Will be interesting to see if most of the improvements are from 64-bit or whether older Intels will benefit too.
Yes, 64-bit apps can run on top of a 32-bit kernel, as they have for years, starting with Tiger and then Leopard (the difference between Tiger and Leopard being that Leopard supports 64-bit GUI apps while Tiger supports only 64-bit command line apps).
All intel cpu's are now based on the centrino technology from a few years ago which was developed in Israel and is a derivative of the pentium 3.
Centrino was the whole mobile architecture, not the CPU - the current Core CPUs were based on the Pentium M, which was based on the P3. You're absolutely right about the P4... many of us back in the day were more interested in the Pentium M than the P4 (although my gaming rigs had AMD64).
Their chart doesn't settle things for my case, I have a Dual-Core Xeon. It's really two Dual-Cores, but I'm reporting what my System Profiler line shows. I think it's probably going to fall into the 64 bit category since it's the same die used on the first Apple Quad-Core Xeons.
I hope us 32-bit Core Duo users get a little love. Will be interesting to see if most of the improvements are from 64-bit or whether older Intels will benefit too.
10.6.x should run fine on your 32-bit Core Duo hardware. Just don't expect 10.7.x to run on 32-bit CPUs.
That is only CPU support. I think the issue might be that Apple doesn't want to bother writing and supporting so many 64-bit drivers. Since all the drivers for built-in hardware are written by Apple, if they don't write them then you are stuck. Even if the kernel would technically run on any 64-bit compatible CPU and chipset.
Comments
Woohoo.....time to torrent when leaked!
What a dick...
Doesn't the two different kernels require separate drivers for both? That could get confusing with third parties. I thought the main difference between Leopard and Snow Leopard (as far as the OS architecture) was Leopard's 32 bit kernel since everything else is already 64 bit. I have a Penryn / Santa Rosa Macbook (4,1). Will it be fully 64 bit?
They do require separate drivers, which is one reason why Windows going 64-bit was wrought with so many issues. They had a separate 32-bit and 64-bit installation so if you didn?t have the 64-bit driver the HW wouldn?t work. Apple has made it very easy to jump back to 32-bit OS with a restart and holding down of the 3 and 2 keys (6 and 4 keys to get back to 64-bit). The drivers that are 64-bit are also 32-bit capable, too, which makes it easy.
So far, your MacBook and my MacBook Pro hasn?t supported a 64-bit kernel. We?ll see what the results are after the next Beta, but it been more than enough time for them to add it by now, so it doesn?t look good.
Woohoo.....time to torrent when leaked!
No! Pay for the the update!
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3696
Processor Name..................32- or 64-bit
==========================
Intel Core Solo.....................32 bit
Intel Core Duo.....................32 bit
Intel Core 2 Duo..................64 bit
Intel Quad-Core Xeon..........64 bit
I hope that settles things.
I believe a 64-bit EFI is also required to run the 64-bit kernel, but again the EFI doesn't matter for running 64-bit apps.
So... who knows of any Apple laptops that use a 64-bit EFI?
The supporting chipset need not be 64-bit in order to run 64-bit apps, but it is possibly required to run the 64-bit kernel. A 32-bit chipset just won't run 64-bit applications as fast as if a 64-bit chipset was present.
I believe a 64-bit EFI is also required to run the 64-bit kernel, but again the EFI doesn't matter for running 64-bit apps.
So... who knows of any Apple laptops that use a 64-bit EFI?
Yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying.
http://www.realtech-vr.com/glview/
You could try to download GLView and it'll tell you what OpenGL version is supported. Although of course you need an nVidia 8000 series or ATI HD2000 series and up for hardware support.
From Apple's support pages:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3696
Processor Name..................32- or 64-bit
==========================
Intel Core Solo.....................32 bit
Intel Core Duo.....................32 bit
Intel Core 2 Duo..................64 bit
Intel Quad-Core Xeon..........64 bit
I hope that settles things.
That is only CPU support. I think the issue might be that Apple doesn't want to bother writing and supporting so many 64-bit drivers. Since all the drivers for built-in hardware are written by Apple, if they don't write them then you are stuck. Even if the kernel would technically run on any 64-bit compatible CPU and chipset.
Can 64-bit apps run in a 32-bit kernel?
Yes. Leopard already does so. And even Tiger supported 64-bit apps as long as the 64-bit parts are spun off in non-GUI worker threads. Mathematica supported 64-bit in Tiger, for both PowerPC and Intel although I believe 64-bit PowerPC has been discontinued.
Yeah hopefully, but not really. They can make their money elsewhere.
Intels chips were even hotter in the end with the Prescott. As the chips get scaled down with new process technology, they got cooler.
I would imagine that a 45nm G6 or G7 would have been pretty cool (in more ways than one).
Intel dumped that architecture years ago. It was used only to win the gigahertz race wiu amd.
All intel cpu's are now based on the centrino technology from a few years ago which was developed in Israel and is a derivative of the pentium 3.
Intel dumped that architecture years ago. It was used only to win the gigahertz race wiu amd.
All intel cpu's are now based on the centrino technology from a few years ago which was developed in Israel and is a derivative of the pentium 3.
Yes. But years ago may include Apple's early 64 bit machines.
Can 64-bit apps run in a 32-bit kernel?
Yes, 64-bit apps can run on top of a 32-bit kernel, as they have for years, starting with Tiger and then Leopard (the difference between Tiger and Leopard being that Leopard supports 64-bit GUI apps while Tiger supports only 64-bit command line apps).
All intel cpu's are now based on the centrino technology from a few years ago which was developed in Israel and is a derivative of the pentium 3.
Centrino was the whole mobile architecture, not the CPU - the current Core CPUs were based on the Pentium M, which was based on the P3. You're absolutely right about the P4... many of us back in the day were more interested in the Pentium M than the P4 (although my gaming rigs had AMD64).
From Apple's support pages:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3696
Processor Name..................32- or 64-bit
==========================
Intel Core Solo.....................32 bit
Intel Core Duo.....................32 bit
Intel Core 2 Duo..................64 bit
Intel Quad-Core Xeon..........64 bit
I hope that settles things.
Their chart doesn't settle things for my case, I have a Dual-Core Xeon. It's really two Dual-Cores, but I'm reporting what my System Profiler line shows. I think it's probably going to fall into the 64 bit category since it's the same die used on the first Apple Quad-Core Xeons.
I hope us 32-bit Core Duo users get a little love. Will be interesting to see if most of the improvements are from 64-bit or whether older Intels will benefit too.
10.6.x should run fine on your 32-bit Core Duo hardware. Just don't expect 10.7.x to run on 32-bit CPUs.
10.6.x should run fine on your 32-bit Core Duo hardware. Just don't expect 10.7.x to run on 32-bit CPUs.
Hopefully, 10.7 will be two years from now, and 32 bit will be old hardware.
http://www.realtech-vr.com/glview/
That is only CPU support. I think the issue might be that Apple doesn't want to bother writing and supporting so many 64-bit drivers. Since all the drivers for built-in hardware are written by Apple, if they don't write them then you are stuck. Even if the kernel would technically run on any 64-bit compatible CPU and chipset.
.
I smell a petition if this is the case...
10.6.x should run fine on your 32-bit Core Duo hardware. Just don't expect 10.7.x to run on 32-bit CPUs.
No and that's fine, I just want 4 good years from my 2006 MacBook.
I've also read that OpenCL requires at least an 8600m to be useful, so I guess my GMA950 isn't going to cut it.