It's not a direct comparison. Windows 7 is basically Vista with some small improvements and a different shell. The major architecture change happened in Vista already between Vista and XP.
No, it is a direct comparison. They would have to be devoting resources to test CS3 against Win7 (and patch 2.5-year old code, etc.) that would otherwise be devoted to developing CS5, according to Nack himself. Its a question of consistency.
Umm...there are other more important reasons some of us are upgrading to Snow Leopard besides Photoshop. Final Cut Studio 3 performance improvements anyone? Photoshop CS3 is just a tool that I use in addition to FCS 3. If it stops working, I will seek alternatives until CS5 is out. Not worth it for me to upgrade to CS4.
Don't be so damned smug Blur. FCS 3 is not going to change much performance wise under SL. Obviously you barely use Final Cut. If you are editing broadcast material, movies and/ or commercials you wouldn't upgrade anytime soon, less you risk shutting down the entire editing department for a week. No one in this environment would ever risk that.
I wouldn't count on any hardware drivers for SL to be re-written for at least 6 months as it pertains to Matrox or Black Magic or other hardware manufacturers. My studio just upgraded to Leopard 4 months ago because we were waiting for stable reliable driver packages and a couple of updates from Apple. That's what real businesses do; wait for a controlled, predictable upgrade that's garaunteed not to shut the company down for a few superfluous features that some editing nerds "must Have". God your like a 13 year old kid.
What is it with you bleeding edge types. Relax, it's like you forget we used to do all of this stuff with AVID (expensive), Media 100 (clunky) and Premier (useless). I mean have any of you guys seen a news room? Those guys are still using BETA tapes, Mixers and networks from 1990. There isn't a single firewire cable in sight. Honestly I don't think any of you supposed editors would even know how to hook up a deck to one of these machines.
Regarding CS3 it'll work and most likely just fine. Adobe is just not supporting it. Get it? No technical support. The problem is not that it won't work at all. Since you probably pirated the software anyway (otherwise you'd just upgrade cheapskate) your technical support situation doesn't even change.
Before everyone let's their outrage get out of control, take a look at the upgrade prices. They're cheap and if you can't afford it then perhaps you should take a look at your business model and consider doing something else with you business because an $800 upgrade even for their most expensive "complete" package is hardly outrageous or not affordable for even a small company. We spend more than that in tapes and hard drives in a couple of days.
It's pretty crappy news but kind of predictable given that things are still settling down since the OSX/ Intel paradigm shifts. Things are changing quickly and these guys don't have the resources to support aging standards. Adobe should have just re-written in Cocoa to begin with perhaps but how unhappy would everyone have been with that? LOL
Roll with the punches guys. No one aid you have to upgrade anything, Just wait until you have machines that deserve a new OS and Applications because believe me it's not worth the stress when all you get are a few seconds shaved off your render time, a faster reboot or and fancier ripple dissolve when you close a window.
I think the three million other people ? with the exact same website that we would had built for you ? bring something to bear here...
I don't entirly agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macornot
...No, I would not charge you 1/3 the cost of a new site (in this case a $599 upgrade) to make a cs3 patch...
Your customers must love that you give them free support when they choose to upgrade, do you factor in buying new software to facilitate this free support of customer's new hardware requirements into the original price you charge? I wonder how that'd make those customers who don't choose to upgrade their sites feel that they've paid extra for no reason?
Not sure I'd feel comfortable working with a business plan that had such an uncertain future? but good luck to you.
Regarding CS3 it'll work and most likely just fine. Adobe is just not supporting it. Get it? No technical support.
In my experience, it is very difficult to tell if a product is supported by Adobe or not. Either way, the answer is always "its a font issue" or "its Apple's fault"
In my experience, it is very difficult to tell if a product is supported by Adobe or not. Either way, the answer is always "its a font issue" or "its Apple's fault"
Would you expect a air plane manufacturer to upgrade and support your prop plane instruments with their current jet plane instruments?
Sorry, but for this particular situation you chose an absurd analogy.
People have a right to be pissed about this. CS3 was one of the most expensive software products out there. To not offer support for folks transitioning to Snow Leopard is a true slap in the face of their installed base.
In my experience, it is very difficult to tell if a product is supported by Adobe or not. Either way, the answer is always "its a font issue" or "its Apple's fault"
If you have any memory of the recent evolution of OS X, Adobe has bent over backwards for this platform:
2000 - 2002: Migration of suite from OS 9 to OS X, a completely new OS.
2005-2006: Migration from PPC/Codeweaver to Universal/Xcode. This required changing not just their code base, but their entire development process, using a yet unproven tool: XCode. They even helped Apple improve XCode during this process.
2008- Sorry, Adobe, we changed our mind: no 64-bit Carbon. This forced Adobe to move their entire suite to Cocoa for CS5.
They are doing a remarkable job keeping up with these changes in the course of their regular upgrade cycle. I think things will finally settle down for them, as there is not much left that Apple can do to them, but they have had a rough nine years supporting a huge, complex suite on the Mac platform. We should all be thankful they didn't give up or simply skip major releases on the Mac.
So, exactly how much is Adobe paying you these days?
You claim that Adobe is bending over backwards for this platform. In reality, it's more like asking their installed base to bend over forwards while Adobe slams it home.
Considering how frequently Adobe refreshes their Creative Suite line (they're on an 18 month update cycle) and how much it costs for the upgrades, Adobe is doing their customers a great injustice by not supporting even one generation old software.
Are they under any legal obligation to support prior versions.
if not, then is anyone really shocked that they aren't.
anymore than is anyone shocked that Apple dropped PPC from Snow Leopard, given that it is a spec that is out of warranty for them at this point.
Creative Suite is WAY overpriced for what it offers (very incremental feature increases every 18 months). I bought CS3 as an upgrade to the original CS (missing out CS2) and apart from being Intel native I only noticed very minimal improvements and nothing that helps me be particularly more productive (native speed gain excluded.
LOL...you noticed little in the way of improvements between CS3 and the original CS suite? You are either lying or blind.
CS4 was a nice upgrade to CS3. Yes, it was a bit pricey but there are some nice additional features. I get the feeling that many people are just casual users and because of this, they don't see the benefit of the upgrade and feel the price is outrageous. Maybe for them it is true, but for most professionals it is not.
I have to laugh at the "I am going to steal it" folks. Maybe if instead of stealing Adobe's product, you would purchase and use other product(s), the market would be large enough that there would be more competition for Adobe.
I much rather have Adobe working on a cocoa version of CS5 than spending time on a version of their applications that haven't been sold in more than a year.
Adobe charges premium upgrade pricing for an endless series of maintenance releases, and very rarely ever releases actual bug fixes in between.
That's because Adobe only makes bug fixes in paid upgrades, forcing you to upgrade in order to get the bugs fixed, while introducing new bugs that they won't fix until the next paid upgrade.
This has been Adobe's M.O. since the introduction of CS. They've been pissing me off for years doing this, so, I've stopped getting every single upgrade and wait until the next major release before I'll consider handing over the ridiculously high upgrade fees Adobe charges.
Plus, they've added so many different flavors of Photoshop, it's hard to know which one you actually need anymore.
CS5 will make me want to open my pocketbook. I look forward to real 64bit support.
I agree. As a pro photographer, CS4 didn't give me anything extra that I needed to work on my photos over CS3. I even have CS2 on an older PPC Mac and that still does the job well for my photos. I'll keep using CS3 and will have to try it out with SL. So, if I run into any problems, I will let ya'll know of them.
By the way, if you only want to upgrade just Photoshop and not the whole suite, it is $199.
Don't be so damned smug Blur. FCS 3 is not going to change much performance wise under SL. Obviously you barely use Final Cut. If you are editing broadcast material, movies and/ or commercials you wouldn't upgrade anytime soon, less you risk shutting down the entire editing department for a week. No one in this environment would ever risk that.
I wouldn't count on any hardware drivers for SL to be re-written for at least 6 months as it pertains to Matrox or Black Magic or other hardware manufacturers. My studio just upgraded to Leopard 4 months ago because we were waiting for stable reliable driver packages and a couple of updates from Apple. That's what real businesses do; wait for a controlled, predictable upgrade that's garaunteed not to shut the company down for a few superfluous features that some editing nerds "must Have". God your like a 13 year old kid.
What is it with you bleeding edge types. Relax, it's like you forget we used to do all of this stuff with AVID (expensive), Media 100 (clunky) and Premier (useless). I mean have any of you guys seen a news room? Those guys are still using BETA tapes, Mixers and networks from 1990. There isn't a single firewire cable in sight. Honestly I don't think any of you supposed editors would even know how to hook up a deck to one of these machines.
Regarding CS3 it'll work and most likely just fine. Adobe is just not supporting it. Get it? No technical support. The problem is not that it won't work at all. Since you probably pirated the software anyway (otherwise you'd just upgrade cheapskate) your technical support situation doesn't even change.
Before everyone let's their outrage get out of control, take a look at the upgrade prices. They're cheap and if you can't afford it then perhaps you should take a look at your business model and consider doing something else with you business because an $800 upgrade even for their most expensive "complete" package is hardly outrageous or not affordable for even a small company. We spend more than that in tapes and hard drives in a couple of days.
It's pretty crappy news but kind of predictable given that things are still settling down since the OSX/ Intel paradigm shifts. Things are changing quickly and these guys don't have the resources to support aging standards. Adobe should have just re-written in Cocoa to begin with perhaps but how unhappy would everyone have been with that? LOL
Roll with the punches guys. No one aid you have to upgrade anything, Just wait until you have machines that deserve a new OS and Applications because believe me it's not worth the stress when all you get are a few seconds shaved off your render time, a faster reboot or and fancier ripple dissolve when you close a window.
I wouldn't count on any hardware drivers for SL to be re-written for at least 6 months as it pertains to Matrox or Black Magic or other hardware manufacturers. My studio just upgraded to Leopard 4 months ago because we were waiting for stable reliable driver packages and a couple of updates from Apple. That's what real businesses do; wait for a controlled, predictable upgrade that's garaunteed not to shut the company down for a few superfluous features that some editing nerds "must Have". God your like a 13 year old kid.
What is it with you bleeding edge types. Relax, it's like you forget we used to do all of this stuff with AVID (expensive), Media 100 (clunky) and Premier (useless). I mean have any of you guys seen a news room? Those guys are still using BETA tapes, Mixers and networks from 1990. There isn't a single firewire cable in sight. Honestly I don't think any of you supposed editors would even know how to hook up a deck to one of these machines.
I worked in a TV broadcast station that used BETA software for the entire editing side. Boy was that a wrong move. No computer ever acted the same way twice, perfered to crash rather than work, and half the time our files would go missing (our network system was also beta). We wanted to be one of the first HD TV stations in our area, and we paid for it with the cost of having to troubleshoot our machines. The only reason we used the beta was because of the initial cost. We worked out some sort of cheap deal so the manufacuturers could have a real-life test bed. Totally not worth it.
We didn't use BETA tapes too often, as everything went to the P2 cards... but those were much more unreliable than the tapes. Again, we were on the bleeding edge, with emphasis on the bleeding part!
Its okay to not have bleeding edge. I still have Final Cut Suite 1, and it works quite well now. Won't be upgrading any time soon.
And for the record, in my current job, I use an AVID machine from 2003. Good fun.
Comments
It's not a direct comparison. Windows 7 is basically Vista with some small improvements and a different shell. The major architecture change happened in Vista already between Vista and XP.
No, it is a direct comparison. They would have to be devoting resources to test CS3 against Win7 (and patch 2.5-year old code, etc.) that would otherwise be devoted to developing CS5, according to Nack himself. Its a question of consistency.
There is never a justification for pirating software.
I know you must be right because you used BOLD and speak in absolutes. You are my golden god.
This announcement is clearly a precursor to the announcement of CS5 and it's main selling point:
"Actually works in Snow Leopard and doesn't suck like CS4: Everything is Flash Edition"
I would not be surprised if the first part of this comment is somewhere near the truth. About the second part I can only hope.
Umm...there are other more important reasons some of us are upgrading to Snow Leopard besides Photoshop. Final Cut Studio 3 performance improvements anyone? Photoshop CS3 is just a tool that I use in addition to FCS 3. If it stops working, I will seek alternatives until CS5 is out. Not worth it for me to upgrade to CS4.
Don't be so damned smug Blur. FCS 3 is not going to change much performance wise under SL. Obviously you barely use Final Cut. If you are editing broadcast material, movies and/ or commercials you wouldn't upgrade anytime soon, less you risk shutting down the entire editing department for a week. No one in this environment would ever risk that.
I wouldn't count on any hardware drivers for SL to be re-written for at least 6 months as it pertains to Matrox or Black Magic or other hardware manufacturers. My studio just upgraded to Leopard 4 months ago because we were waiting for stable reliable driver packages and a couple of updates from Apple. That's what real businesses do; wait for a controlled, predictable upgrade that's garaunteed not to shut the company down for a few superfluous features that some editing nerds "must Have". God your like a 13 year old kid.
What is it with you bleeding edge types. Relax, it's like you forget we used to do all of this stuff with AVID (expensive), Media 100 (clunky) and Premier (useless). I mean have any of you guys seen a news room? Those guys are still using BETA tapes, Mixers and networks from 1990. There isn't a single firewire cable in sight. Honestly I don't think any of you supposed editors would even know how to hook up a deck to one of these machines.
Regarding CS3 it'll work and most likely just fine. Adobe is just not supporting it. Get it? No technical support. The problem is not that it won't work at all. Since you probably pirated the software anyway (otherwise you'd just upgrade cheapskate) your technical support situation doesn't even change.
Before everyone let's their outrage get out of control, take a look at the upgrade prices. They're cheap and if you can't afford it then perhaps you should take a look at your business model and consider doing something else with you business because an $800 upgrade even for their most expensive "complete" package is hardly outrageous or not affordable for even a small company. We spend more than that in tapes and hard drives in a couple of days.
It's pretty crappy news but kind of predictable given that things are still settling down since the OSX/ Intel paradigm shifts. Things are changing quickly and these guys don't have the resources to support aging standards. Adobe should have just re-written in Cocoa to begin with perhaps but how unhappy would everyone have been with that? LOL
Roll with the punches guys. No one aid you have to upgrade anything, Just wait until you have machines that deserve a new OS and Applications because believe me it's not worth the stress when all you get are a few seconds shaved off your render time, a faster reboot or and fancier ripple dissolve when you close a window.
I think the three million other people ? with the exact same website that we would had built for you ? bring something to bear here...
I don't entirly agree.
...No, I would not charge you 1/3 the cost of a new site (in this case a $599 upgrade) to make a cs3 patch...
Your customers must love that you give them free support when they choose to upgrade, do you factor in buying new software to facilitate this free support of customer's new hardware requirements into the original price you charge? I wonder how that'd make those customers who don't choose to upgrade their sites feel that they've paid extra for no reason?
Not sure I'd feel comfortable working with a business plan that had such an uncertain future? but good luck to you.
Regarding CS3 it'll work and most likely just fine. Adobe is just not supporting it. Get it? No technical support.
In my experience, it is very difficult to tell if a product is supported by Adobe or not. Either way, the answer is always "its a font issue" or "its Apple's fault"
In my experience, it is very difficult to tell if a product is supported by Adobe or not. Either way, the answer is always "its a font issue" or "its Apple's fault"
Would you expect a air plane manufacturer to upgrade and support your prop plane instruments with their current jet plane instruments?
Sorry, but for this particular situation you chose an absurd analogy.
People have a right to be pissed about this. CS3 was one of the most expensive software products out there. To not offer support for folks transitioning to Snow Leopard is a true slap in the face of their installed base.
In my experience, it is very difficult to tell if a product is supported by Adobe or not. Either way, the answer is always "its a font issue" or "its Apple's fault"
Damn, that's funny!
Sadly true, but damn funny none-the-less.
If you have any memory of the recent evolution of OS X, Adobe has bent over backwards for this platform:
2000 - 2002: Migration of suite from OS 9 to OS X, a completely new OS.
2005-2006: Migration from PPC/Codeweaver to Universal/Xcode. This required changing not just their code base, but their entire development process, using a yet unproven tool: XCode. They even helped Apple improve XCode during this process.
2008- Sorry, Adobe, we changed our mind: no 64-bit Carbon. This forced Adobe to move their entire suite to Cocoa for CS5.
They are doing a remarkable job keeping up with these changes in the course of their regular upgrade cycle. I think things will finally settle down for them, as there is not much left that Apple can do to them, but they have had a rough nine years supporting a huge, complex suite on the Mac platform. We should all be thankful they didn't give up or simply skip major releases on the Mac.
So, exactly how much is Adobe paying you these days?
You claim that Adobe is bending over backwards for this platform. In reality, it's more like asking their installed base to bend over forwards while Adobe slams it home.
Considering how frequently Adobe refreshes their Creative Suite line (they're on an 18 month update cycle) and how much it costs for the upgrades, Adobe is doing their customers a great injustice by not supporting even one generation old software.
Are they under any legal obligation to support prior versions.
if not, then is anyone really shocked that they aren't.
anymore than is anyone shocked that Apple dropped PPC from Snow Leopard, given that it is a spec that is out of warranty for them at this point.
Creative Suite is WAY overpriced for what it offers (very incremental feature increases every 18 months). I bought CS3 as an upgrade to the original CS (missing out CS2) and apart from being Intel native I only noticed very minimal improvements and nothing that helps me be particularly more productive (native speed gain excluded.
LOL...you noticed little in the way of improvements between CS3 and the original CS suite? You are either lying or blind.
CS4 was a nice upgrade to CS3. Yes, it was a bit pricey but there are some nice additional features. I get the feeling that many people are just casual users and because of this, they don't see the benefit of the upgrade and feel the price is outrageous. Maybe for them it is true, but for most professionals it is not.
I have to laugh at the "I am going to steal it" folks. Maybe if instead of stealing Adobe's product, you would purchase and use other product(s), the market would be large enough that there would be more competition for Adobe.
I much rather have Adobe working on a cocoa version of CS5 than spending time on a version of their applications that haven't been sold in more than a year.
-kpluck
Adobe charges premium upgrade pricing for an endless series of maintenance releases, and very rarely ever releases actual bug fixes in between.
That's because Adobe only makes bug fixes in paid upgrades, forcing you to upgrade in order to get the bugs fixed, while introducing new bugs that they won't fix until the next paid upgrade.
This has been Adobe's M.O. since the introduction of CS. They've been pissing me off for years doing this, so, I've stopped getting every single upgrade and wait until the next major release before I'll consider handing over the ridiculously high upgrade fees Adobe charges.
Plus, they've added so many different flavors of Photoshop, it's hard to know which one you actually need anymore.
There is never a justification for pirating software.
Donger say: You very much like the dongers sexy american girlfriend. Like to bend over and take it in rear entry.
Must go now. The Donger need food!
CS5 will make me want to open my pocketbook. I look forward to real 64bit support.
I agree. As a pro photographer, CS4 didn't give me anything extra that I needed to work on my photos over CS3. I even have CS2 on an older PPC Mac and that still does the job well for my photos. I'll keep using CS3 and will have to try it out with SL. So, if I run into any problems, I will let ya'll know of them.
By the way, if you only want to upgrade just Photoshop and not the whole suite, it is $199.
Don't be so damned smug Blur. FCS 3 is not going to change much performance wise under SL. Obviously you barely use Final Cut. If you are editing broadcast material, movies and/ or commercials you wouldn't upgrade anytime soon, less you risk shutting down the entire editing department for a week. No one in this environment would ever risk that.
I wouldn't count on any hardware drivers for SL to be re-written for at least 6 months as it pertains to Matrox or Black Magic or other hardware manufacturers. My studio just upgraded to Leopard 4 months ago because we were waiting for stable reliable driver packages and a couple of updates from Apple. That's what real businesses do; wait for a controlled, predictable upgrade that's garaunteed not to shut the company down for a few superfluous features that some editing nerds "must Have". God your like a 13 year old kid.
What is it with you bleeding edge types. Relax, it's like you forget we used to do all of this stuff with AVID (expensive), Media 100 (clunky) and Premier (useless). I mean have any of you guys seen a news room? Those guys are still using BETA tapes, Mixers and networks from 1990. There isn't a single firewire cable in sight. Honestly I don't think any of you supposed editors would even know how to hook up a deck to one of these machines.
Regarding CS3 it'll work and most likely just fine. Adobe is just not supporting it. Get it? No technical support. The problem is not that it won't work at all. Since you probably pirated the software anyway (otherwise you'd just upgrade cheapskate) your technical support situation doesn't even change.
Before everyone let's their outrage get out of control, take a look at the upgrade prices. They're cheap and if you can't afford it then perhaps you should take a look at your business model and consider doing something else with you business because an $800 upgrade even for their most expensive "complete" package is hardly outrageous or not affordable for even a small company. We spend more than that in tapes and hard drives in a couple of days.
It's pretty crappy news but kind of predictable given that things are still settling down since the OSX/ Intel paradigm shifts. Things are changing quickly and these guys don't have the resources to support aging standards. Adobe should have just re-written in Cocoa to begin with perhaps but how unhappy would everyone have been with that? LOL
Roll with the punches guys. No one aid you have to upgrade anything, Just wait until you have machines that deserve a new OS and Applications because believe me it's not worth the stress when all you get are a few seconds shaved off your render time, a faster reboot or and fancier ripple dissolve when you close a window.
Yaaaawwwwnnn.
Yaaaawwwwnnn.
Yaaaawwwwnnn.
You're a bit of a tool, aren't you?
I wouldn't count on any hardware drivers for SL to be re-written for at least 6 months as it pertains to Matrox or Black Magic or other hardware manufacturers. My studio just upgraded to Leopard 4 months ago because we were waiting for stable reliable driver packages and a couple of updates from Apple. That's what real businesses do; wait for a controlled, predictable upgrade that's garaunteed not to shut the company down for a few superfluous features that some editing nerds "must Have". God your like a 13 year old kid.
What is it with you bleeding edge types. Relax, it's like you forget we used to do all of this stuff with AVID (expensive), Media 100 (clunky) and Premier (useless). I mean have any of you guys seen a news room? Those guys are still using BETA tapes, Mixers and networks from 1990. There isn't a single firewire cable in sight. Honestly I don't think any of you supposed editors would even know how to hook up a deck to one of these machines.
I worked in a TV broadcast station that used BETA software for the entire editing side. Boy was that a wrong move. No computer ever acted the same way twice, perfered to crash rather than work, and half the time our files would go missing (our network system was also beta). We wanted to be one of the first HD TV stations in our area, and we paid for it with the cost of having to troubleshoot our machines. The only reason we used the beta was because of the initial cost. We worked out some sort of cheap deal so the manufacuturers could have a real-life test bed. Totally not worth it.
We didn't use BETA tapes too often, as everything went to the P2 cards... but those were much more unreliable than the tapes. Again, we were on the bleeding edge, with emphasis on the bleeding part!
Its okay to not have bleeding edge. I still have Final Cut Suite 1, and it works quite well now. Won't be upgrading any time soon.
And for the record, in my current job, I use an AVID machine from 2003. Good fun.
You're a bit of a tool, aren't you?
Didn't want to entertain SpiffMonkey's unwarranted insults. Remember when you point your finger there are three pointing back at you.