Thanks. Main question is will it last until CS5 is released given Apple will probably put a patch out in a month's time after a flood of issues are reported. If not, according to Adobe we are SOL.
Works? Or works well. Two different things entirely. There are bugs in CS3 (and 4) running under Leopard and a slew of things that could work a lot better in my opinion. There are a lot of moving parts to CS3 so to say it works under SL probably only means it doesn't crash on launch.
"No one said anything about CS3 being "not supported" on Snow Leopard. The plan, however, is not to take resources away from other efforts (e.g. porting Photoshop to Cocoa) in order to modify 2.5-year-old software in response to changes Apple makes in the OS foundation."
The Adobe/Macromedia merger should never have been allowed to happen. Under any other administration it likely wouldn't have been tolerated, since it effectively gave Adobe the sufficiently large portion of the market so as to allow them to behave as a monopolist. And here we see they are. Competition is a good thing. It is always is. The consumers always loose when competition is reduced. However, it is consummate naiveté to relay on a Federal government to protect consumers by ensuring competition; they in fact do just the opposite, protect their special interest friends in business. This is, of course, not capitalism, but rather corporate statism -- and it is apparently what the American voters are happy with at the present.
"No one said anything about CS3 being "not supported" on Snow Leopard. The plan, however, is not to take resources away from other efforts (e.g. porting Photoshop to Cocoa) in order to modify 2.5-year-old software in response to changes Apple makes in the OS foundation."
Which is misleading at best, since the official PDF clearly states in reference to CS3: "Older versions of our creative software will not be updated to support Mac OS X Snow Leopard (v10.6)." So yes, Adobe themselves DID say that CS3 is not supported on Snow Leopard.
This is, of course, not capitalism, but rather corporate statism -- and it is apparently what the American voters are happy with at the present.
Not to derail this thread into politics, but I don't think the American voter really gets a choice in the matter. The corporations and banks are running this country, and voting Republican or Democrat doesn't make a damn bit of difference.
The Adobe/Macromedia merger should never have been allowed to happen. Under any other administration it likely wouldn't have been tolerated, since it effectively gave Adobe the sufficiently large portion of the market so as to allow them to behave as a monopolist. And here we see they are. Competition is a good thing. It is always is.
I see your point but face it, although Macromedia and Adobe had some competing products, for the most part the flagship products on either side had virtually no competition whatsoever.
That is a real jackass move by Adobe... I have CS4, but for people still running CS3, I can see why it is hard to justify an upgrade of a perfectly good program like CS3 - especially when it will cost a couple of thousand dollars. Then they wonder why people torrent pirated copies of their software.
Apple is also not faultless... users should expect a degree of legacy compatibility with a new OS and somewhat older version of software, especially something as fundamental as Creative Suite.
I don't think anyone is saying it won't work, Adobe is just saying they haven't even tested it & don't plan to. This means they have no plans to develop any patches for CS3 to fix bugs relating to Snow Leopard.
This is really all on Adobe, it is ridiculous for them to drop CS3 support so short notice considering that Snow Leopard is being released Friday & many people with CS3 probably have already pre-ordered. In the least if you own CS3 Adobe should buy back your Snow Leopard upgrade in full to compensate for their idiotic timing. The reality is that they are a bunch of money grubbers & they knew that a late announcement would catch some people with their pants down & in need of toilet-paper.
CS4 does offer 1 new major feature over CS3, it can take advantage of OpenCL. That is actually a huge deal from a performance standpoint.
I think the bigger issue with CS# is that Adobe has forced us into buying the suites. Unfortunately for us we need the Master Collection because you can't mix and match. I would much rather have the individual apps but that would cost thousands more. I have absolutely no need for half the stuff in the Master Collection but what I do need is:
InDesign
Photoshop
Illustrator
Acrobat Pro
Flash Professional
Dreamweaver
You would have to buy the Web and the Design Suites and buy After Effects separately, which is what we did until CS4 when I just gave up. Now I'm considering returning to upgrading the single apps on an as needed basis, but it is a no win situation.
So, exactly how much is Adobe paying you these days?
You claim that Adobe is bending over backwards for this platform. In reality, it's more like asking their installed base to bend over forwards while Adobe slams it home.
Nothing, I'm just continually surprised they are making shipping deadlines with the curveballs from Apple over the last decade, and it makes me sick to hear the whining. On top it, reports are in that CS3 freaking works on Snow Leopard, supported or not.
That said, I will happily accept money from Adobe for my defensive posts at any time.
I bought CS3 about two months before CS4 was announced. Got screwed then. Now, they're dropping support for CS3. Getting screwed again.
Me, too! Was all set for Snow Leopard upgrade and now to find out that Photoshop CS3 isn't going to work. For what was supposed to be a $40 family pack is now >$300!
I see your point but face it, although Macromedia and Adobe had some competing products, for the most part the flagship products on either side had virtually no competition whatsoever.
Photoshop / xRes
Go Live, PageMill / Dreamweaver
LiveMotion / Flash
Acrobat / (nothing really maybe Flash Paper)
nothing from Adobe / Director & Authorware
InDesign, Pagemaker / nothing from MM
nothing from Adobe / Coldfusion
Premiere, After Effects / nothing from MM
Image Ready / Fireworks
Illustrator / Freehand
Despite your assertion to the contrary, thank you for the list and for making my point.
Despite your assertion to the contrary, thank you for the list and for making my point.
You are welcome but since it doesn't make your point I must assume you have no experience with the software titles. Maybe I should have labeled them as
Sucks / Top of the Class
that way you would see that there was no competition except in the case of Freehand which sucked IMO but a few would disagree - however MM didn't really own that title. The other case of Image Ready / Fireworks - kind of a toss up in a miniscule slice of the overall picture.
I will agree that Adobe is too big because of the merger but it was not the individual titles that were competing.
LOL...you noticed little in the way of improvements between CS3 and the original CS suite? You are either lying or blind.
CS4 was a nice upgrade to CS3. Yes, it was a bit pricey but there are some nice additional features. I get the feeling that many people are just casual users and because of this, they don't see the benefit of the upgrade and feel the price is outrageous. Maybe for them it is true, but for most professionals it is not.
-kpluck
I'm by no standard a "casual user" just one who was underwhelmed at what Adobe managed to achieve in over 3 YEARS of development. They need some real competition.
Nothing, I'm just continually surprised they are making shipping deadlines with the curveballs from Apple over the last decade, and it makes me sick to hear the whining.
Whether or not you realize it, it's a good thing that OSX is moving forward and not stagnating.
At work, I'm constantly amazed that we can have two to four clustered servers with 4 quad-core Xeon processors but are still limited to exactly twenty-six data volumes across the entire cluster; only because there happens to be twenty-six letters in the English alphabet. (Nice that mount-points were copied from Unix, except they aren't support on clustered database volumes which makes them useless in their most potentially useful application.)
So a design decision made for CP/M's predecessor -- dating back to the mid-sixties -- still hamstrings the latest, greatest versions of Windows over forty years later; all in the name of "backward compatibility".
No, for my creative work I think I'll throw my lot in with the team that is willing to boldly move to the future. I would expect a company that has "Creative Suite" as the name of their flagship product would get that.
Henry Ford used to say, "Whether you think you can or can't, you're right."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morky
On top it, reports are in that CS3 freaking works on Snow Leopard, supported or not.
There is a wide gulf between "seems to work" and "is supported" when software bugs stop your important project.
Adobe is certainly not being run with anyone other then its stockholders in mind. When the founders abdicated in favor of "professional management" it was only a matter of time for outsourcing to start and Microsoft business tactics to seep in. The Photoshop group is totally embarrassed by the chutzpa of charging for CS4 when the upgrade was minimal to say the least. It indicates that it is pretty much at the end of its development potential.
I would not pay that sort of money when a combination of GraphicConverter and Aperture suffice for anyone other then the diehard Adobe fans.
Adobe is suffering from the "Intuitization" of their products. If the pricing was reasonable they would not have to go hunting for scalps. They say that the best thing that happened to Apple was Ballmer. I wonder who is going to benefit from Shantanu Narayen.
I have never understood why people think CS is so expensive. I mean comparitively it does cost more money than most software but you can use this software as a tool to make hundreds of thousands of dollars. I understand not wanting to upgrade every 18 months but the ROI is great, even for freelancers, one project and your overhead (other than your time of course) is gone.
If you don't wanna pay that much for Photoshop there are free alternatives out there, but personally I can't stand most of them, and happily pay for CS. This software isn't made for the mass market, it's made for professionals and it comes at a premium. Just like anything else in life you get what you pay for and if you want the best you have to pay for it (reminds of apple products). Do they have their problems? Yes, but they're no where close to making me switch to Gimp.
Comments
Adobe CS3 works in the latest dev release 10A432
Thanks. Main question is will it last until CS5 is released given Apple will probably put a patch out in a month's time after a flood of issues are reported. If not, according to Adobe we are SOL.
Adobe CS3 works in the latest dev release 10A432
Works? Or works well. Two different things entirely. There are bugs in CS3 (and 4) running under Leopard and a slew of things that could work a lot better in my opinion. There are a lot of moving parts to CS3 so to say it works under SL probably only means it doesn't crash on launch.
From Adobe:
"No one said anything about CS3 being "not supported" on Snow Leopard. The plan, however, is not to take resources away from other efforts (e.g. porting Photoshop to Cocoa) in order to modify 2.5-year-old software in response to changes Apple makes in the OS foundation."
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2009/08...opard_faq.html
Adobe Snow Leopard FAQ
From Adobe:
"No one said anything about CS3 being "not supported" on Snow Leopard. The plan, however, is not to take resources away from other efforts (e.g. porting Photoshop to Cocoa) in order to modify 2.5-year-old software in response to changes Apple makes in the OS foundation."
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2009/08...opard_faq.html
Which is misleading at best, since the official PDF clearly states in reference to CS3: "Older versions of our creative software will not be updated to support Mac OS X Snow Leopard (v10.6)." So yes, Adobe themselves DID say that CS3 is not supported on Snow Leopard.
This is, of course, not capitalism, but rather corporate statism -- and it is apparently what the American voters are happy with at the present.
Not to derail this thread into politics, but I don't think the American voter really gets a choice in the matter. The corporations and banks are running this country, and voting Republican or Democrat doesn't make a damn bit of difference.
The Adobe/Macromedia merger should never have been allowed to happen. Under any other administration it likely wouldn't have been tolerated, since it effectively gave Adobe the sufficiently large portion of the market so as to allow them to behave as a monopolist. And here we see they are. Competition is a good thing. It is always is.
I see your point but face it, although Macromedia and Adobe had some competing products, for the most part the flagship products on either side had virtually no competition whatsoever.
Photoshop / xRes
Go Live, PageMill / Dreamweaver
LiveMotion / Flash
Acrobat / (nothing really maybe Flash Paper)
nothing from Adobe / Director & Authorware
InDesign, Pagemaker / nothing from MM
nothing from Adobe / Coldfusion
Premiere, After Effects / nothing from MM
Image Ready / Fireworks
Illustrator / Freehand
That is a real jackass move by Adobe... I have CS4, but for people still running CS3, I can see why it is hard to justify an upgrade of a perfectly good program like CS3 - especially when it will cost a couple of thousand dollars. Then they wonder why people torrent pirated copies of their software.
Apple is also not faultless... users should expect a degree of legacy compatibility with a new OS and somewhat older version of software, especially something as fundamental as Creative Suite.
I don't think anyone is saying it won't work, Adobe is just saying they haven't even tested it & don't plan to. This means they have no plans to develop any patches for CS3 to fix bugs relating to Snow Leopard.
This is really all on Adobe, it is ridiculous for them to drop CS3 support so short notice considering that Snow Leopard is being released Friday & many people with CS3 probably have already pre-ordered. In the least if you own CS3 Adobe should buy back your Snow Leopard upgrade in full to compensate for their idiotic timing. The reality is that they are a bunch of money grubbers & they knew that a late announcement would catch some people with their pants down & in need of toilet-paper.
CS4 does offer 1 new major feature over CS3, it can take advantage of OpenCL. That is actually a huge deal from a performance standpoint.
InDesign
Photoshop
Illustrator
Acrobat Pro
Flash Professional
Dreamweaver
You would have to buy the Web and the Design Suites and buy After Effects separately, which is what we did until CS4 when I just gave up. Now I'm considering returning to upgrading the single apps on an as needed basis, but it is a no win situation.
So, exactly how much is Adobe paying you these days?
You claim that Adobe is bending over backwards for this platform. In reality, it's more like asking their installed base to bend over forwards while Adobe slams it home.
Nothing, I'm just continually surprised they are making shipping deadlines with the curveballs from Apple over the last decade, and it makes me sick to hear the whining. On top it, reports are in that CS3 freaking works on Snow Leopard, supported or not.
That said, I will happily accept money from Adobe for my defensive posts at any time.
I bought CS3 about two months before CS4 was announced. Got screwed then. Now, they're dropping support for CS3. Getting screwed again.
Me, too! Was all set for Snow Leopard upgrade and now to find out that Photoshop CS3 isn't going to work. For what was supposed to be a $40 family pack is now >$300!
I see your point but face it, although Macromedia and Adobe had some competing products, for the most part the flagship products on either side had virtually no competition whatsoever.
Photoshop / xRes
Go Live, PageMill / Dreamweaver
LiveMotion / Flash
Acrobat / (nothing really maybe Flash Paper)
nothing from Adobe / Director & Authorware
InDesign, Pagemaker / nothing from MM
nothing from Adobe / Coldfusion
Premiere, After Effects / nothing from MM
Image Ready / Fireworks
Illustrator / Freehand
Despite your assertion to the contrary, thank you for the list and for making my point.
That said, I will happily accept money from Adobe for my defensive posts at any time.
As your guidance counselor, I believe that you have three options when you graduate from high school:
1) Corporate Tool
2) Greedy Politician
or a combination of the two:
3) DC Lobbyist
Try not to keep us posted on your progress.
Despite your assertion to the contrary, thank you for the list and for making my point.
You are welcome but since it doesn't make your point I must assume you have no experience with the software titles. Maybe I should have labeled them as
Sucks / Top of the Class
that way you would see that there was no competition except in the case of Freehand which sucked IMO but a few would disagree - however MM didn't really own that title. The other case of Image Ready / Fireworks - kind of a toss up in a miniscule slice of the overall picture.
I will agree that Adobe is too big because of the merger but it was not the individual titles that were competing.
LOL...you noticed little in the way of improvements between CS3 and the original CS suite? You are either lying or blind.
CS4 was a nice upgrade to CS3. Yes, it was a bit pricey but there are some nice additional features. I get the feeling that many people are just casual users and because of this, they don't see the benefit of the upgrade and feel the price is outrageous. Maybe for them it is true, but for most professionals it is not.
-kpluck
I'm by no standard a "casual user" just one who was underwhelmed at what Adobe managed to achieve in over 3 YEARS of development. They need some real competition.
Nothing, I'm just continually surprised they are making shipping deadlines with the curveballs from Apple over the last decade, and it makes me sick to hear the whining.
Whether or not you realize it, it's a good thing that OSX is moving forward and not stagnating.
At work, I'm constantly amazed that we can have two to four clustered servers with 4 quad-core Xeon processors but are still limited to exactly twenty-six data volumes across the entire cluster; only because there happens to be twenty-six letters in the English alphabet. (Nice that mount-points were copied from Unix, except they aren't support on clustered database volumes which makes them useless in their most potentially useful application.)
So a design decision made for CP/M's predecessor -- dating back to the mid-sixties -- still hamstrings the latest, greatest versions of Windows over forty years later; all in the name of "backward compatibility".
No, for my creative work I think I'll throw my lot in with the team that is willing to boldly move to the future. I would expect a company that has "Creative Suite" as the name of their flagship product would get that.
Henry Ford used to say, "Whether you think you can or can't, you're right."
On top it, reports are in that CS3 freaking works on Snow Leopard, supported or not.
There is a wide gulf between "seems to work" and "is supported" when software bugs stop your important project.
I would not pay that sort of money when a combination of GraphicConverter and Aperture suffice for anyone other then the diehard Adobe fans.
Adobe is suffering from the "Intuitization" of their products. If the pricing was reasonable they would not have to go hunting for scalps. They say that the best thing that happened to Apple was Ballmer. I wonder who is going to benefit from Shantanu Narayen.
As your guidance counselor, I believe that you have three options when you graduate from high school:
1) Corporate Tool
2) Greedy Politician
or a combination of the two:
3) DC Lobbyist
Try not to keep us posted on your progress.
But note how I managed to fend off all these angry little posts without calling anyone a douchebag. Until. Just. Now.
If you don't wanna pay that much for Photoshop there are free alternatives out there, but personally I can't stand most of them, and happily pay for CS. This software isn't made for the mass market, it's made for professionals and it comes at a premium. Just like anything else in life you get what you pay for and if you want the best you have to pay for it (reminds of apple products). Do they have their problems? Yes, but they're no where close to making me switch to Gimp.