The question is not whether it will sell, but for how much. The Chinese people love iPhone. The number of hacked copies is a testament to this fact, and those are very pricey, more expensive than we get them here in the US.
As for the characters, that is a no-brainer. I am not Chinese, but I use Chinese characters on my iPhone to communicate with my Chinese friends. It is no different from Japanese characters by that much. iPhone has been in Japan and doing well. It will do well in China too. Apple is about to hit a very big jackpot.
Apple shares are about to explode. Get on board if you can. It is uphill from here!
What in the world does this mean? If you don't know what a monopoly is, why are you worried about it?
he feels the device itself somehow jumps past all barriers and becomes a monopoly . i agree the iphone is in great danger of selling exclusive to iphone buyers who choose from they own free will the monopoly iphone . by passing all other iphones
You should re-read my post. $100 (the price of iPhone) were considered in developing country context.
China was not called developing country in my post.
OK. I did. Here is what I read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01
Firstly, iPhones are not so popular in developing countries, and China is not sufficiently far from developing countries in its status, alas.
So, you were saying that China should be considered as a developing country with respect to phones.
When you contradict yourself like this in the space of a few posts, you will surely draw criticisms of being a troll, but it could just be that you are clueless...
Also:
Quote:
I have some doubts about virtually everything in this statement.
The statement you were doubting was "If the iPhone is appealing to them and the cost is right, this could be huge!" So are you seriously doubting that if something is apealing to many millions of people and if it is priced fairly then it will sell well? That is a strange position to take...
I have a friend in Shenzhen (South China) and she bought a mobile phone that would cost about $550 USD. Someone stole it from her purse. Another friend in Shenzhen recently purchased a condo for about $1200 USD per month. Now, these are only 2 in over 1 billion, but using them to say... the middle-class in China is growing extremely fast and a lot of people have expendable money these days. I've been there, they are building A LOT of really nice and apartment/condo buildings there for this middle class.
There are A LOT of poor people in China, but not everyone is walking around with lint in their pockets either. $100 USD is not as much there as some may think. On average Chinese save a lot more than Americans/Westerners, they are big on investing and savings. I was just there this summer and another friend spent several hundred in USD while I was there with ease.
And the 285 cities getting 3G coverage, most sizable cities have between 6-18 million people in each. So, keep that in mind and times that by 285 for potential buyer numbers. If just 5% of those buy an iPhone - you are talking about 5 million give or take a few mill.
Chinese aren't buying all those cars and investing in oil for nothing, people have money to spend now. If the iPhone sells for $100-300 USD there, trust me, a lot of people can definitely afford it if they want.
Huzzah Apple.
Last time I was in Shezhen it was growing like crazy (same story for just about any part of China, really) and there were upscale and luxury cars all over the road. Many, many people have become very wealthy in a short span of time in China.
So, you were saying that China should be considered as a developing country with respect to phones.
No, I'm not contradicting myself. Trying to replace my words with how you are able to understand them may draw suspicions that you might have been just inexperienced internet forum poster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey
The statement you were doubting was "If the iPhone is appealing to them and the cost is right, this could be huge!" So are you seriously doubting that if something is apealing to many millions of people and if it is priced fairly then it will sell well? That is a strange position to take...
No, no, my position is not "strange" at all. (No offence, just curiousness, are you native English speaker?)
In above posts I pointed to customer dissatisfaction, that your statement didn't factor in erroneously, and which would nevertheless be able to influence Apple's business in China. You didn't care to have understood my entire set of arguments, which is about to draw suspicions as described above.
Has anyone noticed? The 1700 Mhz band? Isn't that what Tmobile USA is using for it's 3G service? If that's indeed true, I see a flood of iphone getting "imported" into the US
Does anyone see a clear reason for the suppression of wifi in the Chinese version of the iPhone? Is it the telecom partner or the Chinese government that objects? It would seem as though there would be almost no point to the iPod touch. Is it currently available in China? I suppose one might infer that there is not much wifi connectivity available in China but that seems hard to believe.
Does anyone see a clear reason for the suppression of wifi in the Chinese version of the iPhone? Is it the telecom partner or the Chinese government that objects?
I only know what the conventional wisdom has been on the boards:
The government would like to have as much control as possible over communications in their country. Without WiFi, all cell phone communications have to go through the small handfull of Cell phone companies making it much easier to monitor, trace and/or shut down if need be.
I don't know if WiFi is prohibited for in home use and neither do I know if Touches are sold there.
Does anyone see a clear reason for the suppression of wifi in the Chinese version of the iPhone? Is it the telecom partner or the Chinese government that objects? It would seem as though there would be almost no point to the iPod touch. Is it currently available in China? I suppose one might infer that there is not much wifi connectivity available in China but that seems hard to believe.
If you do an adhoc network of wifi nodes you can make government control/tracking a bit harder. You can do a 802.11 mesh if you really want to.
If everything is 3G the government only has to tell the cell phone company to shut down. Then all the iPhones have zero connectivity. If everything is 3G the government only has to have a tap at the cell phone company making eavesdropping easier.
china has its own wifi security scheme which was rejected by IEEE during 802.11 task force standard rectification. now china's ministry of information enforced that any wifi chip imported has to have its security standard beside IEEE one. considering the time and cost to get the iphone to customers faster, it is wise for apple and china unicom to drop wifi from iphone completely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbryan
Does anyone see a clear reason for the suppression of wifi in the Chinese version of the iPhone? Is it the telecom partner or the Chinese government that objects? It would seem as though there would be almost no point to the iPod touch. Is it currently available in China? I suppose one might infer that there is not much wifi connectivity available in China but that seems hard to believe.
I am a little saddened by the deal as it is another example of bowing down to the all mighty dollar over all other concerns. I despise the Chinese political system. It is oppressive and evil with a thin capitalist skin on it to make it more palatable to the developed world. I love the Chinese people to the extent that I have learned something about them. I would gladly welcome them into American society where I am sure they would thrive. But until China makes some major changes, they should be technologically, socially, and politically isolated from the developed world. The world should not provide products and services that are specifically crippled to help the government control its citizens by keeping them in the dark.
I don't know the long-term solution, but I believe China has to have an internal uprising and throw off the shackles of oppression like all other developed nations have had to do. As long as the US is doing business there, we validate the system and embolden it rather than compromise it. Right now, what we are doing is little more than exploitation. It makes me sick.
I am a little saddened by the deal as it is another example of bowing down to the all mighty dollar over all other concerns. I despise the Chinese political system. It is oppressive and evil with a thin capitalist skin on it to make it more palatable to the developed world. I love the Chinese people to the extent that I have learned something about them. I would gladly welcome them into American society where I am sure they would thrive. But until China makes some major changes, they should be technologically, socially, and politically isolated from the developed world. The world should not provide products and services that are specifically crippled to help the government control its citizens by keeping them in the dark.
I don't know the long-term solution, but I believe China has to have an internal uprising and throw off the shackles of oppression like all other developed nations have had to do. As long as the US is doing business there, we validate the system and embolden it rather than compromise it. Right now, what we are doing is little more than exploitation. It makes me sick.
1) Getting non-Chinese products into the country as popular wares is the first step for removing those shackles. As Chinese citizens become more profitable and the middle class forms it will be harder to maintain the current government.
2) If we were to have a problem with doing business in China it should not be from selling the Chinese an iPhone but from the chinese manufacturing of the iPhone and pretty much everything else we use.
1) Getting non-Chinese products into the country as popular wares is the first step for removing those shackles. As Chinese citizens become more profitable and the middle class forms it will be harder to maintain the current government.
2) If we were to have a problem with doing business in China it should not be from selling the Chinese an iPhone but from the chinese manufacturing of the iPhone and pretty much everything else we use.
I think #1 is a poor rationalization, albeit, a popular one. It is the moral equivalent of doing business with the Portuguese during the slave trade. We tell ourselves that we will make things better for the people by keeping them in the loop. Doing business without moral judgement is just another way to sell one's soul.
As for #2, I completely agree. We should stop exploiting the Chinese labor market.
In the Star Trek universe, no planet is allowed membership into the Federation until it reaches a certain level of technological, social, and moral maturity. The Federation does not try to upgrade the status of a planet by artificially upgrading its technology. Though it is a fictional universe, it is also a sensible approach. Right now, China deserves our pity, humanitarian aid, and careful scrutiny. In no way is it ready for admission into the "Federation" of developed nations.
how much do you understand the political system in china? or even further in far eastern countries, such as japan and korea? what did you learn from those miserable chinese about them and their "evil" country? i am trying to understand beside the words, such as oppressed or evil, what else you know about china?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer
I am a little saddened by the deal as it is another example of bowing down to the all mighty dollar over all other concerns. I despise the Chinese political system. It is oppressive and evil with a thin capitalist skin on it to make it more palatable to the developed world. I love the Chinese people to the extent that I have learned something about them. I would gladly welcome them into American society where I am sure they would thrive. But until China makes some major changes, they should be technologically, socially, and politically isolated from the developed world. The world should not provide products and services that are specifically crippled to help the government control its citizens by keeping them in the dark.
I don't know the long-term solution, but I believe China has to have an internal uprising and throw off the shackles of oppression like all other developed nations have had to do. As long as the US is doing business there, we validate the system and embolden it rather than compromise it. Right now, what we are doing is little more than exploitation. It makes me sick.
how much do you understand the political system in china? or even further in far eastern countries, such as japan and korea? what did you learn from those miserable chinese about them and their "evil" country? i am trying to understand beside the words, such as oppressed or evil, what else you know about china?
A little, I suppose. But do not expect me to make an impassioned defense of my statement. I stand by it and then some, but it is not the sort of thing you can convince someone of. If you believe that China is politically, socially, and morally ready to be a full member of the developed nations of the world, more power to you. I have particular ideas about right and wrong and how those concepts apply to individuals and nations. I imagine you do to. I am not picking on China. There are many places in the world that are equally unprepared if not more so. Thing is, we are not courting those nations and seeking to exploit them for our own purposes. When we look at other lands, we do not drool at the prospect of easy money like we do with China. We are hypocrites. The billion souls of China are nothing more than exploitable resources to big companies here in America. We care nothing about human rights. We only care that the middle class is big enough to be a viable market for our luxury items.
Sorry to hijack this thread and turn it into a political free for all. When I think about the evil that goes on in this world everyday, it makes me wish I still believed in hell. Ah, but that veers into religion and I most certainly don't want to go there.
They probably have better service in 3G in rural areas of China than AT&T does in New York (From what I've heard )
Considering China Unicom's 3G network hasn't been launched yet, it is unlikely to be as good as any of the 250 currently running HSPA networks around the world (in 150 countries).
Considering China Unicom's 3G network hasn't been launched yet, it is unlikely to be as good as any of the 250 currently running HSPA networks around the world (in 150 countries).
OTOH, the fact that the China Unicom has been confirmed (as of this morning) to be a non-exclusive deal for the Chinese market is very, very good news.
Comments
As for the characters, that is a no-brainer. I am not Chinese, but I use Chinese characters on my iPhone to communicate with my Chinese friends. It is no different from Japanese characters by that much. iPhone has been in Japan and doing well. It will do well in China too. Apple is about to hit a very big jackpot.
Apple shares are about to explode. Get on board if you can. It is uphill from here!
What in the world does this mean? If you don't know what a monopoly is, why are you worried about it?
he feels the device itself somehow jumps past all barriers and becomes a monopoly . i agree the iphone is in great danger of selling exclusive to iphone buyers who choose from they own free will the monopoly iphone . by passing all other iphones
yes
You should re-read my post. $100 (the price of iPhone) were considered in developing country context.
China was not called developing country in my post.
OK. I did. Here is what I read:
Firstly, iPhones are not so popular in developing countries, and China is not sufficiently far from developing countries in its status, alas.
So, you were saying that China should be considered as a developing country with respect to phones.
When you contradict yourself like this in the space of a few posts, you will surely draw criticisms of being a troll, but it could just be that you are clueless...
Also:
I have some doubts about virtually everything in this statement.
The statement you were doubting was "If the iPhone is appealing to them and the cost is right, this could be huge!" So are you seriously doubting that if something is apealing to many millions of people and if it is priced fairly then it will sell well? That is a strange position to take...
I have a friend in Shenzhen (South China) and she bought a mobile phone that would cost about $550 USD. Someone stole it from her purse. Another friend in Shenzhen recently purchased a condo for about $1200 USD per month. Now, these are only 2 in over 1 billion, but using them to say... the middle-class in China is growing extremely fast and a lot of people have expendable money these days. I've been there, they are building A LOT of really nice and apartment/condo buildings there for this middle class.
There are A LOT of poor people in China, but not everyone is walking around with lint in their pockets either. $100 USD is not as much there as some may think. On average Chinese save a lot more than Americans/Westerners, they are big on investing and savings. I was just there this summer and another friend spent several hundred in USD while I was there with ease.
And the 285 cities getting 3G coverage, most sizable cities have between 6-18 million people in each. So, keep that in mind and times that by 285 for potential buyer numbers. If just 5% of those buy an iPhone - you are talking about 5 million give or take a few mill.
Chinese aren't buying all those cars and investing in oil for nothing, people have money to spend now. If the iPhone sells for $100-300 USD there, trust me, a lot of people can definitely afford it if they want.
Huzzah Apple.
Last time I was in Shezhen it was growing like crazy (same story for just about any part of China, really) and there were upscale and luxury cars all over the road. Many, many people have become very wealthy in a short span of time in China.
So, you were saying that China should be considered as a developing country with respect to phones.
No, I'm not contradicting myself. Trying to replace my words with how you are able to understand them may draw suspicions that you might have been just inexperienced internet forum poster.
The statement you were doubting was "If the iPhone is appealing to them and the cost is right, this could be huge!" So are you seriously doubting that if something is apealing to many millions of people and if it is priced fairly then it will sell well? That is a strange position to take...
No, no, my position is not "strange" at all. (No offence, just curiousness, are you native English speaker?)
In above posts I pointed to customer dissatisfaction, that your statement didn't factor in erroneously, and which would nevertheless be able to influence Apple's business in China. You didn't care to have understood my entire set of arguments, which is about to draw suspicions as described above.
Hopefully, these iPhone deals being struck don't start a iPhone monopoly for Apple. Only time will tell.
Apple has a 100% monopoly on the iPhone.
Does anyone see a clear reason for the suppression of wifi in the Chinese version of the iPhone? Is it the telecom partner or the Chinese government that objects?
I only know what the conventional wisdom has been on the boards:
The government would like to have as much control as possible over communications in their country. Without WiFi, all cell phone communications have to go through the small handfull of Cell phone companies making it much easier to monitor, trace and/or shut down if need be.
I don't know if WiFi is prohibited for in home use and neither do I know if Touches are sold there.
Does anyone see a clear reason for the suppression of wifi in the Chinese version of the iPhone? Is it the telecom partner or the Chinese government that objects? It would seem as though there would be almost no point to the iPod touch. Is it currently available in China? I suppose one might infer that there is not much wifi connectivity available in China but that seems hard to believe.
If you do an adhoc network of wifi nodes you can make government control/tracking a bit harder. You can do a 802.11 mesh if you really want to.
If everything is 3G the government only has to tell the cell phone company to shut down. Then all the iPhones have zero connectivity. If everything is 3G the government only has to have a tap at the cell phone company making eavesdropping easier.
http://news.cnet.com/China-implement...3-5112832.html
china has its own wifi security scheme which was rejected by IEEE during 802.11 task force standard rectification. now china's ministry of information enforced that any wifi chip imported has to have its security standard beside IEEE one. considering the time and cost to get the iphone to customers faster, it is wise for apple and china unicom to drop wifi from iphone completely.
Does anyone see a clear reason for the suppression of wifi in the Chinese version of the iPhone? Is it the telecom partner or the Chinese government that objects? It would seem as though there would be almost no point to the iPod touch. Is it currently available in China? I suppose one might infer that there is not much wifi connectivity available in China but that seems hard to believe.
I don't know the long-term solution, but I believe China has to have an internal uprising and throw off the shackles of oppression like all other developed nations have had to do. As long as the US is doing business there, we validate the system and embolden it rather than compromise it. Right now, what we are doing is little more than exploitation. It makes me sick.
I am a little saddened by the deal as it is another example of bowing down to the all mighty dollar over all other concerns. I despise the Chinese political system. It is oppressive and evil with a thin capitalist skin on it to make it more palatable to the developed world. I love the Chinese people to the extent that I have learned something about them. I would gladly welcome them into American society where I am sure they would thrive. But until China makes some major changes, they should be technologically, socially, and politically isolated from the developed world. The world should not provide products and services that are specifically crippled to help the government control its citizens by keeping them in the dark.
I don't know the long-term solution, but I believe China has to have an internal uprising and throw off the shackles of oppression like all other developed nations have had to do. As long as the US is doing business there, we validate the system and embolden it rather than compromise it. Right now, what we are doing is little more than exploitation. It makes me sick.
1) Getting non-Chinese products into the country as popular wares is the first step for removing those shackles. As Chinese citizens become more profitable and the middle class forms it will be harder to maintain the current government.
2) If we were to have a problem with doing business in China it should not be from selling the Chinese an iPhone but from the chinese manufacturing of the iPhone and pretty much everything else we use.
1) Getting non-Chinese products into the country as popular wares is the first step for removing those shackles. As Chinese citizens become more profitable and the middle class forms it will be harder to maintain the current government.
2) If we were to have a problem with doing business in China it should not be from selling the Chinese an iPhone but from the chinese manufacturing of the iPhone and pretty much everything else we use.
I think #1 is a poor rationalization, albeit, a popular one. It is the moral equivalent of doing business with the Portuguese during the slave trade. We tell ourselves that we will make things better for the people by keeping them in the loop. Doing business without moral judgement is just another way to sell one's soul.
As for #2, I completely agree. We should stop exploiting the Chinese labor market.
In the Star Trek universe, no planet is allowed membership into the Federation until it reaches a certain level of technological, social, and moral maturity. The Federation does not try to upgrade the status of a planet by artificially upgrading its technology. Though it is a fictional universe, it is also a sensible approach. Right now, China deserves our pity, humanitarian aid, and careful scrutiny. In no way is it ready for admission into the "Federation" of developed nations.
I am a little saddened by the deal as it is another example of bowing down to the all mighty dollar over all other concerns. I despise the Chinese political system. It is oppressive and evil with a thin capitalist skin on it to make it more palatable to the developed world. I love the Chinese people to the extent that I have learned something about them. I would gladly welcome them into American society where I am sure they would thrive. But until China makes some major changes, they should be technologically, socially, and politically isolated from the developed world. The world should not provide products and services that are specifically crippled to help the government control its citizens by keeping them in the dark.
I don't know the long-term solution, but I believe China has to have an internal uprising and throw off the shackles of oppression like all other developed nations have had to do. As long as the US is doing business there, we validate the system and embolden it rather than compromise it. Right now, what we are doing is little more than exploitation. It makes me sick.
how much do you understand the political system in china? or even further in far eastern countries, such as japan and korea? what did you learn from those miserable chinese about them and their "evil" country? i am trying to understand beside the words, such as oppressed or evil, what else you know about china?
A little, I suppose. But do not expect me to make an impassioned defense of my statement. I stand by it and then some, but it is not the sort of thing you can convince someone of. If you believe that China is politically, socially, and morally ready to be a full member of the developed nations of the world, more power to you. I have particular ideas about right and wrong and how those concepts apply to individuals and nations. I imagine you do to. I am not picking on China. There are many places in the world that are equally unprepared if not more so. Thing is, we are not courting those nations and seeking to exploit them for our own purposes. When we look at other lands, we do not drool at the prospect of easy money like we do with China. We are hypocrites. The billion souls of China are nothing more than exploitable resources to big companies here in America. We care nothing about human rights. We only care that the middle class is big enough to be a viable market for our luxury items.
Sorry to hijack this thread and turn it into a political free for all. When I think about the evil that goes on in this world everyday, it makes me wish I still believed in hell. Ah, but that veers into religion and I most certainly don't want to go there.
Peace.
In the Star Trek universe...
O - M - G.
They probably have better service in 3G in rural areas of China than AT&T does in New York (From what I've heard
Considering China Unicom's 3G network hasn't been launched yet, it is unlikely to be as good as any of the 250 currently running HSPA networks around the world (in 150 countries).
Considering China Unicom's 3G network hasn't been launched yet, it is unlikely to be as good as any of the 250 currently running HSPA networks around the world (in 150 countries).
OTOH, the fact that the China Unicom has been confirmed (as of this morning) to be a non-exclusive deal for the Chinese market is very, very good news.