Really. If Verizon or Sprint took on the iPhone, their infrastructure would have imploded.
If this is correct as I suspect it is, then there shouldn't have been an exclusive phone carrier for the iPhone. If it had been offered across a number of carriers there would have been a balanced data usage/consumption and carriers who offered the best service levels would grow their customers.
In the current situation, of course AT&T can't grow their infrastructure overnight. It will take them years to catch up. To me, its like the example of Houston adding a mass transit rail line which will take years and years to get it built and functioning so that the 'masses' can really benefit. Its been around for about 5 years, yet it's only functional for a small group of people based on the limited coverage area.
You're right about lowering your expectations. Too many people have been expecting far too much relative to existing technology. Our service in the US is positively stone-age compared to South Korea, for example.
Since South Korea is about the size of New Jersey it must be easier to provide service as compared to.... The USA!!! What's it take maybe 25 cell towers to cover the whole country?
Oh now your working on it? Don't use the excuse that their are just so many smartphone on your network and that they are straining your network so much. You had two years to prepare for this, don't act like this smartphone boom just surprised you. Look at Verizon and Sprint, you just being lazy, really lazy. Your finally investing in your network when it's past it's capacity. Nice job. And who the heck pushed for having smartphone on your network? You. You even require all smartphone users to have a data plan.
Absolutely right! Thieves and liars run America's big corporations, and AT&T is certainly no exception.
Hey, AT&T, 29 international cellular carriers were able to handle MMS the day the iPhone OS firmware was released in June. What gives?
These guys are desperate.
Nah, they are right where they want to be. They are waiting for customers to scream before they spend any money on upgrades. There was some talk of lawsuits over the lack of MMS, maybe that got them moving.
The international carriers actually care about providing a quality experience to customers. Plus they probably have strong regulations governing their activities. Heaven forbid we Americans ever regulate a company to require them to provide a quality product. Besides AT&T writes their own laws whenever they want. They really, really don't care what we think.
USA does have more land and to provide the coverage like other countries is very hard but the fact is we had to wait over 10 yrs before US had 3G that is unacceptable. and honestly i feel bad for everyone who uses an iphone especially those who still have the first generation ones. you basically bought a cell phone that had technology back in the 90s and you paid a premium for it but that still doesnt excuse at&t for providing such a bad network. i made my choice i will never buy an iphone in the states i will however go overseas buy the unlock 3gs and bring it back here to use a little more money yes but i dotn have to go with att. Apple should just pay att off and get off their deal and just open the ifone to everyone that way they will definitely increase their marketshare by a lot
at&t sucks. besides the iphone, all the phones are crap, i couldn't find a single decent flip phone, and there were only about 2 phones in our price range. i swear the phones are worse than they were with cingular years ago. they are all big and ugly, with terrible buttons, screens, and interfaces. i feel like the cell phone industry is making bigger, worse phones are time goes on, and the terms of use just get more complicated.
every smart phone requires a data plan (as with all the other providers now), and every phone with a qwerty keyboard requires an expensive texting plan in order to get the mail in rebates. how is that even a deal? can i go back in time and get something reasonable?
if it didn't cost billions of dollars to get into the cell phone industry, man these dinosaurs would be gone. if a cell phone company made the buying experience and the terms and conditions as pleasant as buying a windows computer from compusa or installing linux display drivers 5 years ago, they would put providers like at&t out of business.
oh yeah, and sprint and verizon could have easily rolled out mms by now i bet.
Instead of spending money on more bars in more places advertising, they could have used it on there network. The moment the Iphone is announced on Verizon, I will have my check ready to hand over to them. Today was crap with AT&T. On 295 in Central NJ, on the hghway, leaving a very important message then bam, dropped call with 5 bars of 3g. This happened 3 times. Then at home no missed calls and then when I looked at my phone at 6pm, there are 2 voicemails with no missed calls. Thanks AT&T, you ruined my plans for tonight.
I cant wait for Verizon. Day 1 since the Iphone launch has been nothing but a nightmare. I had to go past my mailbox to make a call on my Iphone. Plus when I call my one friend, there is a echo on the other end.
You can only burn a customer so much. They will never return, no matter what you throw at them. With Verizon, I am sure the phone would ring in someones grave. Never had a missed call and never looked at a coverage map.
I guess the fact that they are now posting videos about there network shows that they know there time is coming for the Iphone to come to Verizon. I would love to see the flock of people esp in the northeast area that jump ship.
Instead of spending money on more bars in more places advertising, they could have used it on there network. The moment the Iphone is announced on Verizon, I will have my check ready to hand over to them. Today was crap with AT&T. On 295 in Central NJ, on the hghway, leaving a very important message then bam, dropped call with 5 bars of 3g. This happened 3 times. Then at home no missed calls and then when I looked at my phone at 6pm, there are 2 voicemails with no missed calls. Thanks AT&T, you ruined my plans for tonight.
I cant wait for Verizon. Day 1 since the Iphone launch has been nothing but a nightmare. I had to go past my mailbox to make a call on my Iphone. Plus when I call my one friend, there is a echo on the other end.
You can only burn a customer so much. They will never return, no matter what you throw at them. With Verizon, I am sure the phone would ring in someones grave. Never had a missed call and never looked at a coverage map.
None of them get it guys, and it's a lack of real competition that matters. All of our services are inferior to the rest of the world, because they went and spent their money on wireless infrastructure. It is the easiest way to reach everyone and provide them with decent service.
The companies we have here just don't get it.
Here's some pleasant reading on what they actually think:
None of them get it guys, and it's a lack of real competition that matters. All of our services are inferior to the rest of the world, because they went and spent their money on wireless infrastructure. It is the easiest way to reach everyone and provide them with decent service.
The companies we have here just don't get it.
Here's some pleasant reading on what they actually think:
well other countries do get a lot of subsidies from their government thats one reason why they are so far ahead and they also have good infrastructure. i am sure everyone should kno verizon wireless is owned by vodafone so their network cant be bad since they are the biggest global cellphone network provider and i am sure when 4g hits in 2011 thats when they go to simcard the iphone will go with it and att will be bankrupt...lol
You're right about lowering your expectations. Too many people have been expecting far too much relative to existing technology. Our service in the US is positively stone-age compared to South Korea, for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaStatz
Since South Korea is about the size of New Jersey it must be easier to provide service as compared to.... The USA!!! What's it take maybe 25 cell towers to cover the whole country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyling
USA does have more land and to provide the coverage like other countries is very hard but the fact is we had to wait over 10 yrs before US had 3G that is unacceptable. and honestly i feel bad for everyone who uses an iphone especially those who still have the first generation ones. you basically bought a cell phone that had technology back in the 90s and you paid a premium for it but that still doesnt excuse at&t for providing such a bad network. i made my choice i will never buy an iphone in the states i will however go overseas buy the unlock 3gs and bring it back here to use a little more money yes but i dotn have to go with att. Apple should just pay att off and get off their deal and just open the ifone to everyone that way they will definitely increase their marketshare by a lot
First, regarding S. Korea, I believe the government heavily subsidized their cellular industry in order to promote their cell phone manufacturers. I'd say the iPhone has effectively shifted interest away from much of their cellphone innovations. However, in the aftermath, they still have a better network (in a much smaller country), and a raft of regional models which will never hit the states.
Second, although 850MHz should greatly aid those congested areas, if the iPhone continues it's rapid growth and data usage, the additional bandwidth will quickly saturate. Even now, I've been noticing more dropped calls in the last few months. The real answer lies in non-exclusive 4G coverage, and by then, AT & T will be hurting taking at best a large minority to Verizon's small majority or large majority of iPhone users.
Third, I can't blame AT&T for taking time to get MMS right, although it's late in coming. If even Apple can't get MobileMe and push right for over a year, I would imagine that it is pretty tough to project the new usage patterns that the iPhone generates. Not an excuse, but an explanation. Still, MMS should be AT&T's business, they should be on top of it, and tardiness is inexcusable.
Fourth, I think Apple is extremely shrewd. I think they knew their product would probably have oversaturated multiple carriers initially, but they milked it to get the best deal and commandeer the control in the relationship with an exclusive arrangement and force the carriers to change how they prioritize their spending to create competitive advantage. They also knew the bad PR would mostly fall on the carrier, and leave Apple smelling like roses, and set it up well for the 4G party coming up. As long as the iPhone hardware/App Store & developers machine keeps rolling, all other smartphones fight a losing battle, as the carriers cannot leverage competitors without an ecosystem. It will be interesting to see how Apple plays the shift in landscape when 4G rolls out. BTW, I think the App Store success was far beyond Apple's expectations.
In the end, hopefully, we'll get better networks (although, likely not much better priced plans since weak smartphone competitors can't ask for lower data prices since carrier's unlimited data packages per manufacturers would be anti-competitive). Meanwhile, Apple opens standards, promotes Mac OS, and creates another lopsided playing field that favors customers, like the iPod did. I also hope the AppleTV can finally get on board (those TV & movie houses), and the rumored tablet can accomplish the same.
Who is really at fault, that is Apple thank you, because of the exclusive only one carrier. If the iphone was unlocked the load of iphone users would be disbursed over several carriers and not only ATnT. Steve is really holding apple back just so he can have a huge paycheck for himself.
Who is really at fault, that is Apple thank you, because of the exclusive only one carrier. If the iphone was unlocked the load of iphone users would be disbursed over several carriers and not only ATnT. Steve is really holding apple back just so he can have a huge paycheck for himself.
You signed up for a new account just so you could post that?
Who is really at fault, that is Apple thank you, because of the exclusive only one carrier. If the iphone was unlocked the load of iphone users would be disbursed over several carriers and not only ATnT. Steve is really holding apple back just so he can have a huge paycheck for himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux
You signed up for a new account just so you could post that?
His paycheck only comes if the stock price goes up, and that if they execute their business plan.
A single domestic carrier approach doesn't benefit all the customers presently. Eventually, it will. US carriers used to dictate the US cellular market by stifling innovation. I know. All my friends that came from Korea that brought their cell phones here showed me that the US government and carriers didn't invest in innovation. Their main goal was stable cash-cow cash flows. Think Ma Bell.
I don't agree with the notion that the other networks such as Verizon or Sprint would have had the same issues as ATT. Verizon, for example, has also seen a massive smartphone boom on their network, and they have upgraded their technology to cope with the increased workflow. That's why they are deploying LTE so quickly, because they expect the smartphone boom to continue to incline and cause more workload on the network. Another thing people have a lot of trouble realizing is the fact that the iPhone population isn't anything too crazy. The chunk of ATT's network that iPhones take up is not all that big. It's just sheer size of the population of people using the network. So this is not an iPhone specific problem. Verizon has plenty of customers who are grabbing data like crazy with their blackberries. I see more blackberries than I do iPhones where I live.
The point I'm trying to make is that the iPhone isn't the root of the problem with ATT right now. They simply aren't putting enough resources into building and maintaining their network to support the entire wireless ATT population.
I don't agree with the notion that the other networks such as Verizon or Sprint would have had the same issues as ATT. Verizon, for example, has also seen a massive smartphone boom on their network, and they have upgraded their technology to cope with the increased workflow. That's why they are deploying LTE so quickly, because they expect the smartphone boom to continue to incline and cause more workload on the network. Another thing people have a lot of trouble realizing is the fact that the iPhone population isn't anything too crazy. The chunk of ATT's network that iPhones take up is not all that big. It's just sheer size of the population of people using the network. So this is not an iPhone specific problem. Verizon has plenty of customers who are grabbing data like crazy with their blackberries. I see more blackberries than I do iPhones where I live.
The point I'm trying to make is that the iPhone isn't the root of the problem with ATT right now. They simply aren't putting enough resources into building and maintaining their network to support the entire wireless ATT population.
I wonder how many latent future iPhone users are out there waiting until the iPhone hits other carriers. Surely this is a significant number.
Also, based on Flickr camera data, I believe that the iPhone significantly affect data usage. If the bandwidth were available, Apple would push (or at least customers) for more bandwidth intensive apps (think Over-The-Air use of Hulu, SlingBox, iTMS Movies).
Leisure usage trumps business usage for potential to saturate the network. I loved the email on my Blackberry when I had one, but it was a nightmare for consumer-based use.
You are right, though. It's not the fault of the iPhone, really, but, every carrier would want to limit the unlimited data plan (without losing a significant number of subscribers). It's in their best interest.
Comments
Really. If Verizon or Sprint took on the iPhone, their infrastructure would have imploded.
If this is correct as I suspect it is, then there shouldn't have been an exclusive phone carrier for the iPhone. If it had been offered across a number of carriers there would have been a balanced data usage/consumption and carriers who offered the best service levels would grow their customers.
In the current situation, of course AT&T can't grow their infrastructure overnight. It will take them years to catch up. To me, its like the example of Houston adding a mass transit rail line which will take years and years to get it built and functioning so that the 'masses' can really benefit. Its been around for about 5 years, yet it's only functional for a small group of people based on the limited coverage area.
Hey, AT&T, 29 international cellular carriers were able to handle MMS the day the iPhone OS firmware was released in June. What gives?
These guys are desperate.
You're right about lowering your expectations. Too many people have been expecting far too much relative to existing technology. Our service in the US is positively stone-age compared to South Korea, for example.
Since South Korea is about the size of New Jersey it must be easier to provide service as compared to.... The USA!!! What's it take maybe 25 cell towers to cover the whole country?
Oh now your working on it? Don't use the excuse that their are just so many smartphone on your network and that they are straining your network so much. You had two years to prepare for this, don't act like this smartphone boom just surprised you. Look at Verizon and Sprint, you just being lazy, really lazy. Your finally investing in your network when it's past it's capacity. Nice job. And who the heck pushed for having smartphone on your network? You. You even require all smartphone users to have a data plan.
Absolutely right! Thieves and liars run America's big corporations, and AT&T is certainly no exception.
Totally unconvincing spin doctoring.
Hey, AT&T, 29 international cellular carriers were able to handle MMS the day the iPhone OS firmware was released in June. What gives?
These guys are desperate.
Nah, they are right where they want to be. They are waiting for customers to scream before they spend any money on upgrades. There was some talk of lawsuits over the lack of MMS, maybe that got them moving.
The international carriers actually care about providing a quality experience to customers. Plus they probably have strong regulations governing their activities. Heaven forbid we Americans ever regulate a company to require them to provide a quality product. Besides AT&T writes their own laws whenever they want. They really, really don't care what we think.
every smart phone requires a data plan (as with all the other providers now), and every phone with a qwerty keyboard requires an expensive texting plan in order to get the mail in rebates. how is that even a deal? can i go back in time and get something reasonable?
if it didn't cost billions of dollars to get into the cell phone industry, man these dinosaurs would be gone. if a cell phone company made the buying experience and the terms and conditions as pleasant as buying a windows computer from compusa or installing linux display drivers 5 years ago, they would put providers like at&t out of business.
oh yeah, and sprint and verizon could have easily rolled out mms by now i bet.
I cant wait for Verizon. Day 1 since the Iphone launch has been nothing but a nightmare. I had to go past my mailbox to make a call on my Iphone. Plus when I call my one friend, there is a echo on the other end.
You can only burn a customer so much. They will never return, no matter what you throw at them. With Verizon, I am sure the phone would ring in someones grave. Never had a missed call and never looked at a coverage map.
Instead of spending money on more bars in more places advertising, they could have used it on there network. The moment the Iphone is announced on Verizon, I will have my check ready to hand over to them. Today was crap with AT&T. On 295 in Central NJ, on the hghway, leaving a very important message then bam, dropped call with 5 bars of 3g. This happened 3 times. Then at home no missed calls and then when I looked at my phone at 6pm, there are 2 voicemails with no missed calls. Thanks AT&T, you ruined my plans for tonight.
I cant wait for Verizon. Day 1 since the Iphone launch has been nothing but a nightmare. I had to go past my mailbox to make a call on my Iphone. Plus when I call my one friend, there is a echo on the other end.
You can only burn a customer so much. They will never return, no matter what you throw at them. With Verizon, I am sure the phone would ring in someones grave. Never had a missed call and never looked at a coverage map.
None of them get it guys, and it's a lack of real competition that matters. All of our services are inferior to the rest of the world, because they went and spent their money on wireless infrastructure. It is the easiest way to reach everyone and provide them with decent service.
The companies we have here just don't get it.
Here's some pleasant reading on what they actually think:
http://arstechnica.com/telecom/news/...nd-bar-low.ars
None of them get it guys, and it's a lack of real competition that matters. All of our services are inferior to the rest of the world, because they went and spent their money on wireless infrastructure. It is the easiest way to reach everyone and provide them with decent service.
The companies we have here just don't get it.
Here's some pleasant reading on what they actually think:
http://arstechnica.com/telecom/news/...nd-bar-low.ars
well other countries do get a lot of subsidies from their government thats one reason why they are so far ahead and they also have good infrastructure. i am sure everyone should kno verizon wireless is owned by vodafone so their network cant be bad since they are the biggest global cellphone network provider and i am sure when 4g hits in 2011 thats when they go to simcard the iphone will go with it and att will be bankrupt...lol
You're right about lowering your expectations. Too many people have been expecting far too much relative to existing technology. Our service in the US is positively stone-age compared to South Korea, for example.
Since South Korea is about the size of New Jersey it must be easier to provide service as compared to.... The USA!!! What's it take maybe 25 cell towers to cover the whole country?
USA does have more land and to provide the coverage like other countries is very hard but the fact is we had to wait over 10 yrs before US had 3G that is unacceptable. and honestly i feel bad for everyone who uses an iphone especially those who still have the first generation ones. you basically bought a cell phone that had technology back in the 90s and you paid a premium for it but that still doesnt excuse at&t for providing such a bad network. i made my choice i will never buy an iphone in the states i will however go overseas buy the unlock 3gs and bring it back here to use a little more money yes but i dotn have to go with att. Apple should just pay att off and get off their deal and just open the ifone to everyone that way they will definitely increase their marketshare by a lot
First, regarding S. Korea, I believe the government heavily subsidized their cellular industry in order to promote their cell phone manufacturers. I'd say the iPhone has effectively shifted interest away from much of their cellphone innovations. However, in the aftermath, they still have a better network (in a much smaller country), and a raft of regional models which will never hit the states.
Second, although 850MHz should greatly aid those congested areas, if the iPhone continues it's rapid growth and data usage, the additional bandwidth will quickly saturate. Even now, I've been noticing more dropped calls in the last few months. The real answer lies in non-exclusive 4G coverage, and by then, AT & T will be hurting taking at best a large minority to Verizon's small majority or large majority of iPhone users.
Third, I can't blame AT&T for taking time to get MMS right, although it's late in coming. If even Apple can't get MobileMe and push right for over a year, I would imagine that it is pretty tough to project the new usage patterns that the iPhone generates. Not an excuse, but an explanation. Still, MMS should be AT&T's business, they should be on top of it, and tardiness is inexcusable.
Fourth, I think Apple is extremely shrewd. I think they knew their product would probably have oversaturated multiple carriers initially, but they milked it to get the best deal and commandeer the control in the relationship with an exclusive arrangement and force the carriers to change how they prioritize their spending to create competitive advantage. They also knew the bad PR would mostly fall on the carrier, and leave Apple smelling like roses, and set it up well for the 4G party coming up. As long as the iPhone hardware/App Store & developers machine keeps rolling, all other smartphones fight a losing battle, as the carriers cannot leverage competitors without an ecosystem. It will be interesting to see how Apple plays the shift in landscape when 4G rolls out. BTW, I think the App Store success was far beyond Apple's expectations.
In the end, hopefully, we'll get better networks (although, likely not much better priced plans since weak smartphone competitors can't ask for lower data prices since carrier's unlimited data packages per manufacturers would be anti-competitive). Meanwhile, Apple opens standards, promotes Mac OS, and creates another lopsided playing field that favors customers, like the iPod did. I also hope the AppleTV can finally get on board (those TV & movie houses), and the rumored tablet can accomplish the same.
Who is really at fault, that is Apple thank you, because of the exclusive only one carrier. If the iphone was unlocked the load of iphone users would be disbursed over several carriers and not only ATnT. Steve is really holding apple back just so he can have a huge paycheck for himself.
You signed up for a new account just so you could post that?
Who is really at fault, that is Apple thank you, because of the exclusive only one carrier. If the iphone was unlocked the load of iphone users would be disbursed over several carriers and not only ATnT. Steve is really holding apple back just so he can have a huge paycheck for himself.
You signed up for a new account just so you could post that?
His paycheck only comes if the stock price goes up, and that if they execute their business plan.
A single domestic carrier approach doesn't benefit all the customers presently. Eventually, it will. US carriers used to dictate the US cellular market by stifling innovation. I know. All my friends that came from Korea that brought their cell phones here showed me that the US government and carriers didn't invest in innovation. Their main goal was stable cash-cow cash flows. Think Ma Bell.
The point I'm trying to make is that the iPhone isn't the root of the problem with ATT right now. They simply aren't putting enough resources into building and maintaining their network to support the entire wireless ATT population.
10.6:
"IM NOT A SERVICE PACK!"
We are sending Emails with pictures all the time over the iPhone.
We are uploading videos to youtube.
How come the network can handle that, but not a simple MMS, which probably won't be used too much since each MMS costs money, and Emails are FREE.
I don't agree with the notion that the other networks such as Verizon or Sprint would have had the same issues as ATT. Verizon, for example, has also seen a massive smartphone boom on their network, and they have upgraded their technology to cope with the increased workflow. That's why they are deploying LTE so quickly, because they expect the smartphone boom to continue to incline and cause more workload on the network. Another thing people have a lot of trouble realizing is the fact that the iPhone population isn't anything too crazy. The chunk of ATT's network that iPhones take up is not all that big. It's just sheer size of the population of people using the network. So this is not an iPhone specific problem. Verizon has plenty of customers who are grabbing data like crazy with their blackberries. I see more blackberries than I do iPhones where I live.
The point I'm trying to make is that the iPhone isn't the root of the problem with ATT right now. They simply aren't putting enough resources into building and maintaining their network to support the entire wireless ATT population.
I wonder how many latent future iPhone users are out there waiting until the iPhone hits other carriers. Surely this is a significant number.
Also, based on Flickr camera data, I believe that the iPhone significantly affect data usage. If the bandwidth were available, Apple would push (or at least customers) for more bandwidth intensive apps (think Over-The-Air use of Hulu, SlingBox, iTMS Movies).
Leisure usage trumps business usage for potential to saturate the network. I loved the email on my Blackberry when I had one, but it was a nightmare for consumer-based use.
You are right, though. It's not the fault of the iPhone, really, but, every carrier would want to limit the unlimited data plan (without losing a significant number of subscribers). It's in their best interest.