iTunes works very well to manage a media library even when you're not connected to the internet.
You must be talking about the iTunes Store.
Sure the store part could be ported to WebKit, I don't see any major problems with that. I'm talking about the rest of iTunes, namely the media management part. As I said, Javascript simply wouldn't cut it when it comes to sorting/managing 10,000+ songs and dealing with all the meta-data of a large library.
Even with a small library, on an old/cheap computer the interface would be slow as molasses if it was running entirely in WebKit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
I think the rest is just a bunch of XML files that tell it where the files are on the file system and what is in which playlists. They could probably use a lite version of mysql and get better performance than XML files
A few years back (2004) I wanted to access my home iTunes Library (10,000+ songs) from a remote laptop, so I wrote the equivalent of iTunes as a Web app using ColdFusion. ColdFusion is a high-level web application programming language where programs you write are compiled to Java ByteCode, then run on the Java ByteCode Interpreter.
I ran this on the same iMac G5 2GHz 2Gig RAM that held the iTunes library on an external FireWire drive. So, the iMac was both client and server (for testing). I used Apache as the Web Server.
So, it worked like this:
1) Startup Web Server and ColdFusion environment
2) Startup My iTunes equivalent web app
3) Read iTunes Library XML and parse the needed data into a ColdFusion Table (a 2D array in RAM}
4) Wait for web page request from client
5) Client requested initial page
6) Apache/ColdFusion served Initial Page
7) Client received Initial page and used JavaScript to request iTunes Data through a special Web Service (part of the Server Side ColdFusion App).
8) Server received data request, queried RAM array (similar to an SQL Query), and returned data through Web Service
9) Client received data through Web Service and formatted song area of web page (mirrored iTunes Display) using JavaScript
10) Client could sort on various fields, using JavaScript without involving server
11) most data requests to the server involved several hundred records or less & were displayed in a few seconds.
This all worked rather well except, for step 3, parsing the XML on the Server (took about 1 minute) and the initial data request through the web service about 250 bytes x 10,000 songs.
The web service did not pass an XML file as this would have been too verbose and too slow.
By comparison, these client-server data requests took significantly less time than comparable requests to the iTunes Store using Apple's iTunes desktop client communicating with iTunes servers.
So, aside from the 2 performance hits mentioned* it is quite possible to do iTunes as a web app or a Widget.
* Both of these could be resolved.
This was before all the recent improvements to JavaScript (and Java) as well as much faster multi-core Intel CPUs.
That said, I don't think Apple will go that way.
I suspect that Apple has an internal development environment for Windows (and maybe Linux) that is very similar to the Mac and iPhone SDKs. In this environment, say, windows, apps like Safari, QuickTime or iTunes use familiar Mac OS X APIs and Frameworks, but different runtime systems (that interface the specific platform).
The fact that these apps have [mostly] web-like UIs, facilitates porting them to other platforms.
oh, and there's "One more thing" - as Steve takes the stage to thank everyone, and to say, new and exciting stuff is just around the corner ? and then he leaves the stage to a long standing ovation.
Rumors that the new iPod nano will have a "top-secret new material/treatment" on its exterior, and will include an FM tuner.
carbon fiber anyone? could this be a sort of durability test before we see CF Macbook Pros in the coming year? That could easily shave a pound off of the weight of the pros, Nopw, imagine a CF 15 inch sans optical drive with the recovered space used to make the battery last 14-16 hrs, that would be great!
I already have a great camera so don't need another one on the iTouch that I have to pay for again. Would like the FM tuner as there are times I like the radio (getting ready in the morning when the Song Teaser comes on I know I should already be at the door).
.
I can´t afford an iphone 3gs right now, so for me, an iphone light (the ipod touch with camera and gps ) would be excellent. I´d buy it in a second. and then off to the app store !
I can´t afford an iphone 3gs right now, so for me, an iphone light (the ipod touch with camera and gps ) would be excellent. I´d buy it in a second. and then off to the app store !
it all makes sense to me now !
Zon
That's never going to come out, you know? The iPhone 3G acts as the chepaer iPhone for those who cannot afford the 3GS or do not have the needs to get a 3GS. NO IPHONE NANO/LIGHT/AIR/WHATEVER please.
You mean like 5% of your posters that have links in their signature? If you're going to pass judgement then pass it on everyone that has a link in their signature.
A little late to get holier than thou when you've allowed it for years.
Edit. Is this like Apple's App rejection not being consistent?
I don't operate or work for Apple, and I don't justify their app store policies.
It's not so simple as people having a link in their signature, it's about people promoting commercial products or services for money under the guise of just being another poster. It wasn't even in the signature in the first place, it was someone trying to promote the product they're being paid to promote, and throwing in a sentence or two to make it seem like they're genuine participants when they are just spammers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul
This not spam, he has been very clever in advertising his product. Spam is repeatable mail to a mass audience, he has only posted once to my knowledge.
Nothing to get 'anger' about.
That poster has made four posts, all with the exact same advertisement, and those other posts didn't even pretend to be part of the discussion, it was just an ad insertion, nothing more, nothing less.
If you want to get picky, spam is an imitation meat product in a can, not a mass mailing. If you accept that the vernacular can change over time, then maybe you can understand there is an industry where people and bots insert ads disguised as posts into internet forums without the permission of forum owners, and spam is an acceptable word to use to describe it.
This isn't that individual's product. I don't even know if it really is an individual, it has the fingerprints of a spam bot. These bots are a problem for forums as they end up polluting threads and forums with advertisements disguised as discussions or comments. I doubt you would want to go to any forum where spammers are simply left alone under a misguided free speech mantra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonVendorFan
So if AppleInsider has allowed the first 2 that I know for a fact does it make 3 over the top or just putting it in a different spot in their posting. It's the same either way you look at it.
It has been allowed, it is now being punished. It doesn't matter (according to Global Moderator) where it is in your posting
If it's not allowed now then AppleInsider is FlipFlopping on their rules. If they are going to forbid it then EVERYONE with an agenda (gay marriage seems to come to mind in many sigantures) then don't allow any links for a personal agenda.
By the way. I'm Gay. But if you're going to make the rules enforce them across the board. I don't need to advertise my life choice or partner. It's personal and doesn't matter on a forum posting other than to advertise an agenda.
I do clean up signatures. I don't recall any signatures about gay marriage.
I would need to see examples of people spamming in order to clean it up. People linking to their own private website isn't spamming, as long as the web site isn't promoting a product or selling ad space.
I think the rest is just a bunch of XML files that tell it where the files are on the file system and what is in which playlists. They could probably use a lite version of mysql and get better performance than XML files
I thought the XML files were for external applications to access the iTunes library and playlists. iTunes only generates them, it doesn't use them itself. iTunes therefore presumably has an embedded database or uses a system database (SQLite?).
Large datastructures need not necessarily be slow to manage and access - the data structure and algorithms chosen are what is important. Javascript with good choices of data structures and sorting/searching algorithms can be faster than C with poor choices (not that iTunes will have poor choices, not by version 9, these would have been fixed in version 0.1!). And Safari's Javascript is quite fast, although not a patch on good C / Objective C.
However I agree that I don't see Apple using Webkit / local HTML application for iTunes 9 when they probably already have the Cocoa interface libraries running on Windows for Windows Safari.
Jeff is right. Links to stuff like Porn sites and advertising for selling 32GB 3GS, iPod Touch very very cheap deals, etc are clearly advertising messages that's why they are nuked. It's your prerogative if you want such links here. But as long as it is an advertising message/ spam, it does not deserve to be there. What's wrong with having a PROPER link in your signature, like a link to an interesting news site? It's not as if everybody here is putting gay marriage links here, in their post/ signature. Go find one for me first before you make a conclusion. You can ask Jeff how many ads are nuked and reported everyday. This forum is an advertising and porn-site magnet, being a mod here is certainly no easy job. ( I have experience at Macrumors.com as a mod. ) Mods have their everyday life too, don't bother them here with such useless rants and arguments too on an IPOD forum? Jeez.
The usefulness of a GPS connection without an always-on Internet connection is limited. After all, what good is knowing what coordinates you're at if you can't see them on a map, just a blank grid?
You buy a third party mapping application then which includes its own maps. Or the device comes with an on-board low-resolution map just in case (low resolution in terms of comparing to max zoom, but you can fit a lot of plain-map image data (not satellite view) in 100MB - possibly half-kilometer resolution worldwide and that's before you optimise away the oceans which could give you 100m resolution).
Also GPS chips are getting very cheap, it might just make sense to include it if you will increase sales because of it, and attract developers that make the device more attractive with serious applications.
You buy a third party mapping application then which includes its own maps. Or the device comes with an on-board low-resolution map just in case (low resolution in terms of comparing to max zoom, but you can fit a lot of plain-map image data (not satellite view) in 100MB - possibly half-kilometer resolution worldwide and that's before you optimise away the oceans which could give you 100m resolution).
Also GPS chips are getting very cheap, it might just make sense to include it if you will increase sales because of it, and attract developers that make the device more attractive with serious applications.
And don't forget it has WiFi built in.
Not only that, if you wanted to, you can use it to painlessly geotag photos and videos. So if any of the iPods get a camera, there's another potential reason to have a GPS receiver built-in.
Not only that, you can geotag photos and videos. So if any of the iPods get a camera, there's another potential reason to have a GPS receiver built-in.
I don't think geotagging will be in for the iPod Touch though..
carbon fiber anyone? could this be a sort of durability test before we see CF Macbook Pros in the coming year? That could easily shave a pound off of the weight of the pros, Nopw, imagine a CF 15 inch sans optical drive with the recovered space used to make the battery last 14-16 hrs, that would be great!
Do you remember the Apple patent over some kind of RF-transparent zircon-based material? The impression I got was that it was like a durable ceramic.
Carbon Fiber has its uses, but I don't know if it's good for thin computers and portable devices, it's too flexible. There are certain kinds of strengths that it's good for, certain kinds that it's not. Most notably, in thin sheets, it flexes very easily.
Who cares about FM radio? The iPod killed it 8 years ago. The whole point of an iPod is because radio plays crap and has to many commercials.
Maybe where you're from but in the UK there's great public broadcasting. Having no access to FM or digital radio means no access to live sports/news/music shows or your favourite regular live broadcast.
Something to add, in case certain people don't "get it", here is the post specifically saying that promoting commercial DVD and video converters is prohibited. It's at the top of this forum, "iPod + iTunes + AppleTV".
I really don't understand the original objections, nuking spammers isn't about silencing people that actually want to participate in the forum, conflating spammers with genuine participants doesn't make sense.
Do you remember the Apple patent over some kind of RF-transparent zircon-based material? The impression I got was that it was like a durable ceramic.
Carbon Fiber has its uses, but I don't know if it's good for thin computers and portable devices, it's too flexible. There are certain kinds of strengths that it's good for, certain kinds that it's not. Most notably, in thin sheets, it flexes very easily.
I would love to see the ceramic for casing of the 2010 ( 4th gen iPhone ). It would look nice since it can be colored, so black and white would still be possible. Carbon fiber is expensive, I believe.
Something to add, in case certain people don't "get it", here is the post specifically saying that promoting commercial DVD and video converters is prohibited. It's at the top of this forum, "iPod + iTunes + AppleTV".
That's never going to come out, you know? The iPhone 3G acts as the chepaer iPhone for those who cannot afford the 3GS or do not have the needs to get a 3GS. NO IPHONE NANO/LIGHT/AIR/WHATEVER please.
I think you misunderstood. I meant everything iphone without the phone. buying the hardware is one thing, monthly subscription is something else
I really don't understand the original objections, nuking spammers isn't about silencing people that actually want to participate in the forum, conflating spammers with genuine participants doesn't make sense.
It's easy to understand JeffDM. The original objectors just like taking the opposing view on ... pretty much everything on these forums. I think it's just in their DNA. \
Comments
iTunes works very well to manage a media library even when you're not connected to the internet.
You must be talking about the iTunes Store.
Sure the store part could be ported to WebKit, I don't see any major problems with that. I'm talking about the rest of iTunes, namely the media management part. As I said, Javascript simply wouldn't cut it when it comes to sorting/managing 10,000+ songs and dealing with all the meta-data of a large library.
Even with a small library, on an old/cheap computer the interface would be slow as molasses if it was running entirely in WebKit.
I think the rest is just a bunch of XML files that tell it where the files are on the file system and what is in which playlists. They could probably use a lite version of mysql and get better performance than XML files
A few years back (2004) I wanted to access my home iTunes Library (10,000+ songs) from a remote laptop, so I wrote the equivalent of iTunes as a Web app using ColdFusion. ColdFusion is a high-level web application programming language where programs you write are compiled to Java ByteCode, then run on the Java ByteCode Interpreter.
I ran this on the same iMac G5 2GHz 2Gig RAM that held the iTunes library on an external FireWire drive. So, the iMac was both client and server (for testing). I used Apache as the Web Server.
So, it worked like this:
1) Startup Web Server and ColdFusion environment
2) Startup My iTunes equivalent web app
3) Read iTunes Library XML and parse the needed data into a ColdFusion Table (a 2D array in RAM}
4) Wait for web page request from client
5) Client requested initial page
6) Apache/ColdFusion served Initial Page
7) Client received Initial page and used JavaScript to request iTunes Data through a special Web Service (part of the Server Side ColdFusion App).
8) Server received data request, queried RAM array (similar to an SQL Query), and returned data through Web Service
9) Client received data through Web Service and formatted song area of web page (mirrored iTunes Display) using JavaScript
10) Client could sort on various fields, using JavaScript without involving server
11) most data requests to the server involved several hundred records or less & were displayed in a few seconds.
This all worked rather well except, for step 3, parsing the XML on the Server (took about 1 minute) and the initial data request through the web service about 250 bytes x 10,000 songs.
The web service did not pass an XML file as this would have been too verbose and too slow.
By comparison, these client-server data requests took significantly less time than comparable requests to the iTunes Store using Apple's iTunes desktop client communicating with iTunes servers.
So, aside from the 2 performance hits mentioned* it is quite possible to do iTunes as a web app or a Widget.
* Both of these could be resolved.
This was before all the recent improvements to JavaScript (and Java) as well as much faster multi-core Intel CPUs.
That said, I don't think Apple will go that way.
I suspect that Apple has an internal development environment for Windows (and maybe Linux) that is very similar to the Mac and iPhone SDKs. In this environment, say, windows, apps like Safari, QuickTime or iTunes use familiar Mac OS X APIs and Frameworks, but different runtime systems (that interface the specific platform).
The fact that these apps have [mostly] web-like UIs, facilitates porting them to other platforms.
*
Skip
Rumors that the new iPod nano will have a "top-secret new material/treatment" on its exterior, and will include an FM tuner.
carbon fiber anyone? could this be a sort of durability test before we see CF Macbook Pros in the coming year? That could easily shave a pound off of the weight of the pros, Nopw, imagine a CF 15 inch sans optical drive with the recovered space used to make the battery last 14-16 hrs, that would be great!
carbon fiber anyone?...
The move to alu/glass was championed as a move to recycleable materials; can carbon fibre be recycled?
I already have a great camera so don't need another one on the iTouch that I have to pay for again. Would like the FM tuner as there are times I like the radio (getting ready in the morning when the Song Teaser comes on I know I should already be at the door).
.
I can´t afford an iphone 3gs right now, so for me, an iphone light (the ipod touch with camera and gps ) would be excellent. I´d buy it in a second. and then off to the app store !
it all makes sense to me now !
Zon
I can´t afford an iphone 3gs right now, so for me, an iphone light (the ipod touch with camera and gps ) would be excellent. I´d buy it in a second. and then off to the app store !
it all makes sense to me now !
Zon
That's never going to come out, you know?
The move to alu/glass was championed as a move to recycleable materials; can carbon fibre be recycled?
Yes. But it's expensive to produce.
You mean like 5% of your posters that have links in their signature? If you're going to pass judgement then pass it on everyone that has a link in their signature.
A little late to get holier than thou when you've allowed it for years.
Edit. Is this like Apple's App rejection not being consistent?
I don't operate or work for Apple, and I don't justify their app store policies.
It's not so simple as people having a link in their signature, it's about people promoting commercial products or services for money under the guise of just being another poster. It wasn't even in the signature in the first place, it was someone trying to promote the product they're being paid to promote, and throwing in a sentence or two to make it seem like they're genuine participants when they are just spammers.
This not spam, he has been very clever in advertising his product. Spam is repeatable mail to a mass audience, he has only posted once to my knowledge.
Nothing to get 'anger' about.
That poster has made four posts, all with the exact same advertisement, and those other posts didn't even pretend to be part of the discussion, it was just an ad insertion, nothing more, nothing less.
If you want to get picky, spam is an imitation meat product in a can, not a mass mailing. If you accept that the vernacular can change over time, then maybe you can understand there is an industry where people and bots insert ads disguised as posts into internet forums without the permission of forum owners, and spam is an acceptable word to use to describe it.
This isn't that individual's product. I don't even know if it really is an individual, it has the fingerprints of a spam bot. These bots are a problem for forums as they end up polluting threads and forums with advertisements disguised as discussions or comments. I doubt you would want to go to any forum where spammers are simply left alone under a misguided free speech mantra.
So if AppleInsider has allowed the first 2 that I know for a fact does it make 3 over the top or just putting it in a different spot in their posting. It's the same either way you look at it.
It has been allowed, it is now being punished. It doesn't matter (according to Global Moderator) where it is in your posting
If it's not allowed now then AppleInsider is FlipFlopping on their rules. If they are going to forbid it then EVERYONE with an agenda (gay marriage seems to come to mind in many sigantures) then don't allow any links for a personal agenda.
By the way. I'm Gay. But if you're going to make the rules enforce them across the board. I don't need to advertise my life choice or partner. It's personal and doesn't matter on a forum posting other than to advertise an agenda.
I do clean up signatures. I don't recall any signatures about gay marriage.
I would need to see examples of people spamming in order to clean it up. People linking to their own private website isn't spamming, as long as the web site isn't promoting a product or selling ad space.
I think the rest is just a bunch of XML files that tell it where the files are on the file system and what is in which playlists. They could probably use a lite version of mysql and get better performance than XML files
I thought the XML files were for external applications to access the iTunes library and playlists. iTunes only generates them, it doesn't use them itself. iTunes therefore presumably has an embedded database or uses a system database (SQLite?).
Large datastructures need not necessarily be slow to manage and access - the data structure and algorithms chosen are what is important. Javascript with good choices of data structures and sorting/searching algorithms can be faster than C with poor choices (not that iTunes will have poor choices, not by version 9, these would have been fixed in version 0.1!). And Safari's Javascript is quite fast, although not a patch on good C / Objective C.
However I agree that I don't see Apple using Webkit / local HTML application for iTunes 9 when they probably already have the Cocoa interface libraries running on Windows for Windows Safari.
The usefulness of a GPS connection without an always-on Internet connection is limited. After all, what good is knowing what coordinates you're at if you can't see them on a map, just a blank grid?
You buy a third party mapping application then which includes its own maps. Or the device comes with an on-board low-resolution map just in case (low resolution in terms of comparing to max zoom, but you can fit a lot of plain-map image data (not satellite view) in 100MB - possibly half-kilometer resolution worldwide and that's before you optimise away the oceans which could give you 100m resolution).
Also GPS chips are getting very cheap, it might just make sense to include it if you will increase sales because of it, and attract developers that make the device more attractive with serious applications.
And don't forget it has WiFi built in.
You buy a third party mapping application then which includes its own maps. Or the device comes with an on-board low-resolution map just in case (low resolution in terms of comparing to max zoom, but you can fit a lot of plain-map image data (not satellite view) in 100MB - possibly half-kilometer resolution worldwide and that's before you optimise away the oceans which could give you 100m resolution).
Also GPS chips are getting very cheap, it might just make sense to include it if you will increase sales because of it, and attract developers that make the device more attractive with serious applications.
And don't forget it has WiFi built in.
Not only that, if you wanted to, you can use it to painlessly geotag photos and videos. So if any of the iPods get a camera, there's another potential reason to have a GPS receiver built-in.
Not only that, you can geotag photos and videos. So if any of the iPods get a camera, there's another potential reason to have a GPS receiver built-in.
I don't think geotagging will be in for the iPod Touch though..
carbon fiber anyone? could this be a sort of durability test before we see CF Macbook Pros in the coming year? That could easily shave a pound off of the weight of the pros, Nopw, imagine a CF 15 inch sans optical drive with the recovered space used to make the battery last 14-16 hrs, that would be great!
Do you remember the Apple patent over some kind of RF-transparent zircon-based material? The impression I got was that it was like a durable ceramic.
Carbon Fiber has its uses, but I don't know if it's good for thin computers and portable devices, it's too flexible. There are certain kinds of strengths that it's good for, certain kinds that it's not. Most notably, in thin sheets, it flexes very easily.
Who cares about FM radio? The iPod killed it 8 years ago. The whole point of an iPod is because radio plays crap and has to many commercials.
Maybe where you're from but in the UK there's great public broadcasting. Having no access to FM or digital radio means no access to live sports/news/music shows or your favourite regular live broadcast.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...22&postcount=1
I really don't understand the original objections, nuking spammers isn't about silencing people that actually want to participate in the forum, conflating spammers with genuine participants doesn't make sense.
Do you remember the Apple patent over some kind of RF-transparent zircon-based material? The impression I got was that it was like a durable ceramic.
Carbon Fiber has its uses, but I don't know if it's good for thin computers and portable devices, it's too flexible. There are certain kinds of strengths that it's good for, certain kinds that it's not. Most notably, in thin sheets, it flexes very easily.
I would love to see the ceramic for casing of the 2010 ( 4th gen iPhone ). It would look nice since it can be colored, so black and white would still be possible. Carbon fiber is expensive, I believe.
Something to add, in case certain people don't "get it", here is the post specifically saying that promoting commercial DVD and video converters is prohibited. It's at the top of this forum, "iPod + iTunes + AppleTV".
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...22&postcount=1
Thanks for that Jeff.
That's never going to come out, you know?
I think you misunderstood. I meant everything iphone without the phone. buying the hardware is one thing, monthly subscription is something else
But I agree with the rest.
I really don't understand the original objections, nuking spammers isn't about silencing people that actually want to participate in the forum, conflating spammers with genuine participants doesn't make sense.
It's easy to understand JeffDM. The original objectors just like taking the opposing view on ... pretty much everything on these forums. I think it's just in their DNA.