What I'd like to know is, why is AI taking such a hard stance against the Zune HD before it is even released? AI hasn't even touched a Zune HD yet, and they've already declared it dead.
Wait for the reviews tomorrow from Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, and all the other tech blogs, see the device in person at Best Buy or wherever the hell else they sell it at, and look at the display yourself.
Pieces like this have absolutely no merit IMHO. For me personally, I don't care to purchase a Zune HD -- I already have a 32GB iPhone 3G S. But I will take a look at it tomorrow in Best Buy to see what all the fuss is about before I start burning the thing at the stake.
Yes I'm wondering about AppleInsider myself. It is very unlike AI to be so biased against anything that not Apple.
It's as almost if they had the Apple cult like fanboys from hell over at MDN write this article.
But gosh! You seem to be such a fervent believer in the subscription model that it sounds like you have a personal interest in seeing it succeed. You said you've talked people into trying out the service. Do you have a financial interest in this?
Oh, come on! Anyone who really likes a product or service tries to persuade others to see things their way.
Well I call sour grapes. The Zune HD is going to do good business this Christmas whether the Apple fanboys like it or not.
And the C grade performance by Apple at the September event isn't going to dissuade potential ZuneHD buyers. With an ipod touch that was supposed to have a camera.....but didn't....and a iPod nano that does digital video (great) but incredibly NOT still shots, will all end up helping initial Zune HD sales.
The Apple products will end up winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.
What I don't understand is why people whining about no camera on the iPod Touch would flee to another media player that has no camera. The iPod nano update will drive sales, not turn them away.
That said, the ZuneHD will probably become the best selling Zune ever (however significant that is) because it looks to be a good product. At this point it would be very difficult for the Zune to gain significant traction against the iPod though (the iPod is just too entrenched in peoples minds), and you can't take rumour boards as representative of actual consumer demand.
Yeah, 'cause in that time period, you got to listen to millions of tracks legitimately that you otherwise may not have had a chance to...
And here's another point - of those 120-140 songs - how many would you continue to listen to indefinitely? What's the point of buying music you will not care about in a year or more?
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
I wouldn't even be listening to them anymore after the word "fifteen" came out of their mouth.
The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.
Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.
Now your post is BS.
Yes, I've said that I would love to see OLEDs, and I was hoping that Apple would have some. I won't deny that. You didn't have to look up my posting to know that. I would have told you if you had asked.
But I have reason for that. I've seen Apple use technology when they thought it was ready. And from what I've seen they're usually right about when it is. Not always, but usually.
MS, on the other hand, makes comments about so many things it sold, and then drops them without another comment. You get the feeling that it's just trying out things to see what will work without any real plan in mind.
I really do believe that if Apple had thought that an OLED would have served their purpose, we would have seen one this year.
Apple has been accused over the years of being too far ahead of the crowd, so when they decide to let others move on a new technology first, I have to wonder why. I can't imagine that they haven't tested many OLEDs over the past few years, and have decided that they weren't yet up to snuff.
So sure, I think that an OLED would be great for a 10" tablet, I did also say that I thought it was expensive, and I didn't think that the cost of the tablet with one would fly right now. But if Apple's huge buying power could be brought to bear, then maybe they could get them at a low enough price. This was assuming that the quality of the display would be good enough.
I was hoping that it would be, but I also mentioned power issues and the like, so I've not been all one sided as you want to believe. I'm sure you can pick out posts that don't say that, as I don't repeat something many times in a discussion, at least not usually.
But that doesn't change things here. There have been several commentators who have wondered if MS used an OLED for "sexy" reasons rather than technical ones.
I'm sure that MS's OLED is "good enough".
At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that.
Prince's credibility will be on the line here. We'll all see this new OLED screen, with all the comparisons and articles and analysis following.
I'm not a techie here, but I hope this new screen is drop-dead gorgeous. Apple's last iPod touch update was a yawner. Another player or two always helps keep everyone paranoid and aggressive. If we all love high tech, we would champion hearty competition.
I realize the sales figures will not compare, but if this screen is amazing, I'd expect Apple to be taking a good hard look at it and working even harder to add their secret sauces. You know they have their OLED versions in the lab.
The information in this article strains credibility at best.
I have several OLED devices around my house and those displays are clearly BRIGHTER than LCDs. I don't know where the author got his information, but it is clearly wrong.
Your argument about the Xbox being a success only because of Microsoft's willingness to lose money really has nothing to do with my discussion. So what? It is as if I should argue that Apple would not be as successful as it is now had MS not invest $150 Million in what appeared to be a dying company. After all, what company would do that?
Your English here is, uh ... kind of "difficult" so I'm not sure what you're actually arguing.
But if you're bringing out that old chestnut as to how Microsoft "saved" Apple with that investment or even that they invested in Apple because they thought it was a winning situation and that Apple would bounce back, you are 100% wrong.
The investment and the Office contract were part and parcel of the same deal and the reasons behind it were settling a law suit over Microsoft's theft of Apple's IP (video for windows) and the long standing and famous "look and feel" lawsuit.
It isn't like I expect this next Zune to be successful, MS will likely do it in with poor software and over priced software in it's app store. All I'm asking for is a little ethics here. The question Appleinsider needs to ask is do they want to be taken seriously. If so this sort of reporting needs to be flushed down the crapper.
In any event a lot of this comes down to software from third parties. If developers end up thinking this Zune is already a failure it will suffer from a lack of software. That is a slow death. Further the MS supplied software had better work well that includes the browser. Since MS has never gotten Internet Explorer to work right I tend to think the platform is doomed.
Dave
Just to talk about software developers. They like to sell product. The reason why the iPhone/Touch has been so successful with developers is because whether because of necessity or design, by the time Apple came out with its apps store and SDK several months before, they had already sold millions of phones and Touches, showing developers that they had a hot product and would be selling a lot of them.
So they had an amazing 553 apps from day one.
But in two years, MS has only managed to sell 2 million Zunes, most of which won't be able to use this software, whatever it turns out to be.
That's a problem when attracting developers. They are going to ask where the market is. What can MS tell them other than to be patient.
So you are developing for a platform that is just starting out, with to all intents, no sales yet. No product in consumers hands. What if they don't like it? Where will sales go? Should you wait until there's a number of these in the field? If so, how many? How long should you give them to get to that number? The longer it takes, the fewer they will sell.
This is a problem. We're seeing it with the Pre. Despite all of those saying that they are so much more developer friendly, they still have only 58 apps (at last look a few days ago) in their store, though they do have a few hundred mostly amateur apps available, most of which aren't very good.
If the HD takes a year to sell another million, will developers care? How many does it have to sell before there are hundreds of developers, thousands?
I got an Iphone and the zune hd right here.. to claim that OLED is not a great screen is just a plain lie. I can't even get a good picture of it. Black is 100% black, not grey like on the iphone. The colors are extremely vibrant..
I'll see if I can get a good picture of it with a SLR camera..
Yes, I've said that I would love to see OLEDs, and I was hoping that Apple would have some. I won't deny that. You didn't have to look up my posting to know that. I would have told you if you had asked.
...
I'm sure that MS's OLED is "good enough".
At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that.
I didn't need to look them up I read this site daily.
You're sure that MS's OLED is "good enough" &
"At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that"
You are a Global Moderator for a forum that did "Trash" OLED in the new Zune HD and everything about the Zune.
That doesn't bother you that you disagree with the very article that you are are a Moderator For? Yes, this is an "Apple Forum" but this article is inexcusable for the blatant BS that it is spewing.
Then there is person X "I kiss Apple's Ass" and let a Moderator stand on his or her own words both past and present. I don't think 1 month is that old to still support a "Feature".
In other words. I wasn't referring to you or talking to you and don't require or want a response from you.
I'm asking an AI Moderator to justify past "personal postings" to justify the BS that is being spewed in this article when a month ago he was all for OLED.
Simple isn't is when you take out Person X.
You really are just trying to cause trouble. In order to understand past postings, you have to read the entire thread in which the posts appear. It's easy to select posts that say something that you don't like, and try to present them as something which they may not be. By telling this other poster that you don't care about what they say is just being rude. Anyone can respond to anyone in a thread, that's true here, or just about anywhere else. You don't have to respond back. But if you do, then like it or not, you did care about what they posted.
[QUOTE=Ricardo Dawkins;1482170]A few articles and videos showing the same technologies used by Zune HD against the old display technologies of the current iPod Touch:
So bright and shinny display at Best Buy (look the huge metal hallide lamps on the background):
winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.
The bulk of Apple's iPod market doesn't even know what a Zune HD is. And won't care when they're told.
This product is stillborn. US-only (good luck getting developers) and three years too late.
Five simple reasons why the Zune HD will be a non-event:
1) 3 years too late.
2) iPhone
3) iPod mindshare
4) The move toward device convergence
5) US-only (for an indefinite period of time)
Had the Zune HD been released three years ago it might have actually mattered.
iPod mindshare? Is that like a vulcan Mind Meld that only Steve Jobs can do? I have an iPhone with 3.1 on it and I've never even heard of it. I Googled it an the most recent article I could find was a year old and it goes all the way back to 2005 from there.
iPod Mindshare. ROMLMAO (My kids tought me that one).
... why is AI taking such a hard stance against the Zune HD before it is even released? ... Wait for the reviews tomorrow from Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, ... Pieces like this have absolutely no merit IMHO. ...
This doesn't make any sense though.
Other than maybe going a bit far on the criticism of the OLED screen (and we will find out in days if this reviewer did), this is a solid, fact-based review with lots of detailed research that I haven't read anywhere else at all. Yet you are saying this review has "no merit" and waiting for one from Gizmodo? or CNET? You've got to be kidding.
Every article on CNET is just a puff piece about how great technology is in general, and just reads the virtues of each product they "review," right from the copy sent to them by the manufacturer. Gizmodo is just a bunch of kids who wouldn't know research if it hit them in the face and practically live to bash Apple. They also praise anything that falls from Microsoft's fingers and most of the commenters there are young, rabid, anti-Apple types that you can't even have a sensible conversation with.
Sounds to me like you just wanted to like Zune HD so much that the idea that there might be problems with it is putting your nose out of joint.
Personally, from what I've seen of OLED technology I think the reviewer went out on a limb with the heavy handed criticism, but we will see tomorrow won't we? It is true that if anyone can make a crappy OLED screen it's certainly Microsoft. The quality control on every product (software or hardware) they have ever made has always been the worst. However I find the complete lack of apps and games for the thing, and the details of that processor far more worrying.
What more proof of the fact that people are really reviewing the Zune HD on it's "sexy-ness" instead of it's capabilities, than the fact that everyone here is getting all het up about the stupid screen? The other failings and "myths" are far more important, but no one seems to even be arguing about them. People just seem upset that the device they were expecting to see tomorrow is maybe not as sexy looking as they thought.
Comments
What I'd like to know is, why is AI taking such a hard stance against the Zune HD before it is even released? AI hasn't even touched a Zune HD yet, and they've already declared it dead.
Wait for the reviews tomorrow from Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, and all the other tech blogs, see the device in person at Best Buy or wherever the hell else they sell it at, and look at the display yourself.
Pieces like this have absolutely no merit IMHO. For me personally, I don't care to purchase a Zune HD -- I already have a 32GB iPhone 3G S. But I will take a look at it tomorrow in Best Buy to see what all the fuss is about before I start burning the thing at the stake.
Yes I'm wondering about AppleInsider myself. It is very unlike AI to be so biased against anything that not Apple.
It's as almost if they had the Apple cult like fanboys from hell over at MDN write this article.
But gosh! You seem to be such a fervent believer in the subscription model that it sounds like you have a personal interest in seeing it succeed. You said you've talked people into trying out the service. Do you have a financial interest in this?
Oh, come on! Anyone who really likes a product or service tries to persuade others to see things their way.
We all do that.
Well I call sour grapes. The Zune HD is going to do good business this Christmas whether the Apple fanboys like it or not.
And the C grade performance by Apple at the September event isn't going to dissuade potential ZuneHD buyers. With an ipod touch that was supposed to have a camera.....but didn't....and a iPod nano that does digital video (great) but incredibly NOT still shots, will all end up helping initial Zune HD sales.
The Apple products will end up winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.
What I don't understand is why people whining about no camera on the iPod Touch would flee to another media player that has no camera. The iPod nano update will drive sales, not turn them away.
That said, the ZuneHD will probably become the best selling Zune ever (however significant that is) because it looks to be a good product. At this point it would be very difficult for the Zune to gain significant traction against the iPod though (the iPod is just too entrenched in peoples minds), and you can't take rumour boards as representative of actual consumer demand.
Yeah, 'cause in that time period, you got to listen to millions of tracks legitimately that you otherwise may not have had a chance to...
And here's another point - of those 120-140 songs - how many would you continue to listen to indefinitely? What's the point of buying music you will not care about in a year or more?
Rhapsody, or Pandora...your pick
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
I wouldn't even be listening to them anymore after the word "fifteen" came out of their mouth.
The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.
Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.
Now your post is BS.
Yes, I've said that I would love to see OLEDs, and I was hoping that Apple would have some. I won't deny that. You didn't have to look up my posting to know that. I would have told you if you had asked.
But I have reason for that. I've seen Apple use technology when they thought it was ready. And from what I've seen they're usually right about when it is. Not always, but usually.
MS, on the other hand, makes comments about so many things it sold, and then drops them without another comment. You get the feeling that it's just trying out things to see what will work without any real plan in mind.
I really do believe that if Apple had thought that an OLED would have served their purpose, we would have seen one this year.
Apple has been accused over the years of being too far ahead of the crowd, so when they decide to let others move on a new technology first, I have to wonder why. I can't imagine that they haven't tested many OLEDs over the past few years, and have decided that they weren't yet up to snuff.
So sure, I think that an OLED would be great for a 10" tablet, I did also say that I thought it was expensive, and I didn't think that the cost of the tablet with one would fly right now. But if Apple's huge buying power could be brought to bear, then maybe they could get them at a low enough price. This was assuming that the quality of the display would be good enough.
I was hoping that it would be, but I also mentioned power issues and the like, so I've not been all one sided as you want to believe. I'm sure you can pick out posts that don't say that, as I don't repeat something many times in a discussion, at least not usually.
But that doesn't change things here. There have been several commentators who have wondered if MS used an OLED for "sexy" reasons rather than technical ones.
I'm sure that MS's OLED is "good enough".
At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that.
I'm not a techie here, but I hope this new screen is drop-dead gorgeous. Apple's last iPod touch update was a yawner. Another player or two always helps keep everyone paranoid and aggressive. If we all love high tech, we would champion hearty competition.
I realize the sales figures will not compare, but if this screen is amazing, I'd expect Apple to be taking a good hard look at it and working even harder to add their secret sauces. You know they have their OLED versions in the lab.
I have several OLED devices around my house and those displays are clearly BRIGHTER than LCDs. I don't know where the author got his information, but it is clearly wrong.
Your argument about the Xbox being a success only because of Microsoft's willingness to lose money really has nothing to do with my discussion. So what? It is as if I should argue that Apple would not be as successful as it is now had MS not invest $150 Million in what appeared to be a dying company. After all, what company would do that?
Your English here is, uh ... kind of "difficult" so I'm not sure what you're actually arguing.
But if you're bringing out that old chestnut as to how Microsoft "saved" Apple with that investment or even that they invested in Apple because they thought it was a winning situation and that Apple would bounce back, you are 100% wrong.
The investment and the Office contract were part and parcel of the same deal and the reasons behind it were settling a law suit over Microsoft's theft of Apple's IP (video for windows) and the long standing and famous "look and feel" lawsuit.
1) 3 years too late.
2) iPhone
3) iPod mindshare
4) The move toward device convergence
5) US-only (for an indefinite period of time)
Had the Zune HD been released three years ago it might have actually mattered.
T
It isn't like I expect this next Zune to be successful, MS will likely do it in with poor software and over priced software in it's app store. All I'm asking for is a little ethics here. The question Appleinsider needs to ask is do they want to be taken seriously. If so this sort of reporting needs to be flushed down the crapper.
In any event a lot of this comes down to software from third parties. If developers end up thinking this Zune is already a failure it will suffer from a lack of software. That is a slow death. Further the MS supplied software had better work well that includes the browser. Since MS has never gotten Internet Explorer to work right I tend to think the platform is doomed.
Dave
Just to talk about software developers. They like to sell product. The reason why the iPhone/Touch has been so successful with developers is because whether because of necessity or design, by the time Apple came out with its apps store and SDK several months before, they had already sold millions of phones and Touches, showing developers that they had a hot product and would be selling a lot of them.
So they had an amazing 553 apps from day one.
But in two years, MS has only managed to sell 2 million Zunes, most of which won't be able to use this software, whatever it turns out to be.
That's a problem when attracting developers. They are going to ask where the market is. What can MS tell them other than to be patient.
So you are developing for a platform that is just starting out, with to all intents, no sales yet. No product in consumers hands. What if they don't like it? Where will sales go? Should you wait until there's a number of these in the field? If so, how many? How long should you give them to get to that number? The longer it takes, the fewer they will sell.
This is a problem. We're seeing it with the Pre. Despite all of those saying that they are so much more developer friendly, they still have only 58 apps (at last look a few days ago) in their store, though they do have a few hundred mostly amateur apps available, most of which aren't very good.
If the HD takes a year to sell another million, will developers care? How many does it have to sell before there are hundreds of developers, thousands?
I'll see if I can get a good picture of it with a SLR camera..
Now your post is BS.
Yes, I've said that I would love to see OLEDs, and I was hoping that Apple would have some. I won't deny that. You didn't have to look up my posting to know that. I would have told you if you had asked.
...
I'm sure that MS's OLED is "good enough".
At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that.
I didn't need to look them up I read this site daily.
You're sure that MS's OLED is "good enough" &
"At any rate, anyone who reads that post of mine that you quoted won't see me trashing the OLED in the Zune, because I didn't do that"
You are a Global Moderator for a forum that did "Trash" OLED in the new Zune HD and everything about the Zune.
That doesn't bother you that you disagree with the very article that you are are a Moderator For? Yes, this is an "Apple Forum" but this article is inexcusable for the blatant BS that it is spewing.
Then there is person X "I kiss Apple's Ass" and let a Moderator stand on his or her own words both past and present. I don't think 1 month is that old to still support a "Feature".
In other words. I wasn't referring to you or talking to you and don't require or want a response from you.
I'm asking an AI Moderator to justify past "personal postings" to justify the BS that is being spewed in this article when a month ago he was all for OLED.
Simple isn't is when you take out Person X.
You really are just trying to cause trouble. In order to understand past postings, you have to read the entire thread in which the posts appear. It's easy to select posts that say something that you don't like, and try to present them as something which they may not be. By telling this other poster that you don't care about what they say is just being rude. Anyone can respond to anyone in a thread, that's true here, or just about anywhere else. You don't have to respond back. But if you do, then like it or not, you did care about what they posted.
So bright and shinny display at Best Buy (look the huge metal hallide lamps on the background):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9lLl2B0uAE
I can't believe you sited that video to make your point. I even looked at some of the related videos on the page.
It's all just really embarrassing. Wow.
Did you miss the part about getting to listen to millions of tracks of your choice? Can you do that on iTunes?
Did you miss the part that a decade later the subscription model still has not caught on?! Most people don't want it!
winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.
The bulk of Apple's iPod market doesn't even know what a Zune HD is. And won't care when they're told.
This product is stillborn. US-only (good luck getting developers) and three years too late.
Five simple reasons why the Zune HD will be a non-event:
1) 3 years too late.
2) iPhone
3) iPod mindshare
4) The move toward device convergence
5) US-only (for an indefinite period of time)
Had the Zune HD been released three years ago it might have actually mattered.
iPod mindshare? Is that like a vulcan Mind Meld that only Steve Jobs can do? I have an iPhone with 3.1 on it and I've never even heard of it. I Googled it an the most recent article I could find was a year old and it goes all the way back to 2005 from there.
iPod Mindshare. ROMLMAO (My kids tought me that one).
So now Fan Bot is not allowed when you personally use FanBoy in many forum postings?
Don't make this a room of Double Standards because he/she has some great points.
Ah, you are just here to troll.
Say something relevant. If you're trying to intimidate me, it won't work.
Most other sites would have had you off already.
... why is AI taking such a hard stance against the Zune HD before it is even released? ... Wait for the reviews tomorrow from Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, ... Pieces like this have absolutely no merit IMHO. ...
This doesn't make any sense though.
Other than maybe going a bit far on the criticism of the OLED screen (and we will find out in days if this reviewer did), this is a solid, fact-based review with lots of detailed research that I haven't read anywhere else at all. Yet you are saying this review has "no merit" and waiting for one from Gizmodo? or CNET? You've got to be kidding.
Every article on CNET is just a puff piece about how great technology is in general, and just reads the virtues of each product they "review," right from the copy sent to them by the manufacturer. Gizmodo is just a bunch of kids who wouldn't know research if it hit them in the face and practically live to bash Apple. They also praise anything that falls from Microsoft's fingers and most of the commenters there are young, rabid, anti-Apple types that you can't even have a sensible conversation with.
Sounds to me like you just wanted to like Zune HD so much that the idea that there might be problems with it is putting your nose out of joint.
Personally, from what I've seen of OLED technology I think the reviewer went out on a limb with the heavy handed criticism, but we will see tomorrow won't we? It is true that if anyone can make a crappy OLED screen it's certainly Microsoft. The quality control on every product (software or hardware) they have ever made has always been the worst. However I find the complete lack of apps and games for the thing, and the details of that processor far more worrying.
What more proof of the fact that people are really reviewing the Zune HD on it's "sexy-ness" instead of it's capabilities, than the fact that everyone here is getting all het up about the stupid screen? The other failings and "myths" are far more important, but no one seems to even be arguing about them. People just seem upset that the device they were expecting to see tomorrow is maybe not as sexy looking as they thought.