Prince McLean is an absolute genius! He caused so much trouble with this article that there's now going to be SOOOO many more people visiting AI! (including me )
I think if you're going to call people "thick" you should append it to a post that doesn't suggest you're a fucking idiot, yeah?
iPhone users absolutely use their phones as a media player, as well as a pocketable computer. That's, you know, pretty much what it was designed to be.
Many Touch users want that same functionality, but without the phone app or the phone charges.
I have no idea what you mean by declaring your phone your pocketable computer (why the scare quotes on pocketable, I wonder) but go on to make some confused assertions about inferior media players (compared to the Zune, I guess). The Touch is the iPhone without the phone app, so not seeing how that would make it "worse" than what you're already doing with your phone, but I suspect you don't know what you mean either and are just sort of making combative noises with a Zune-ward slant. Or something.
At any rate, I'd rather have a single device that did a lot of things. Modest improvements in image quality and battery life wouldn't be enough to tip the scales for me, since the upside of being able to a ton of other stuff with the same device would carry the day.
I really doubt that the dedicated MP3/video player has much a future, any more than people carry around transistor radios.
haha, this guy should calm down. we are talking about toys here. the end of that post contradicts the beginning, though.
first the defense for having a device that can't do it all, then at the end slamming a device without all of the features.
well, I'm sure all of the people i know with ipod nanos and classics would have to disagree with you, and some people like to leave their media player in the car, hooked up to their audio system, or want to use a media player while working out and not drain their cell phone battery. don't give me any bull about the iphone's battery because I've had one (original) and my girlfriend(3g) has to charge hers every night just using it for push email, calls, and the occasional facebook. calls take up a lot of battery and, personally, when i use my phone for business, battery runs down.
But take my opinion with a grain of salt since i don't have any of these. haha, i just use my phone as, well, a phone and my car has a hard drive for music already. I just don't like to demote competition because it has a different name.
and, you know, if you have a life, that iphone wont last all day. I mean I guess it does if you don't call anybody, and nobody calls you. I currently have an android phone, and yes, I have to charge this one every night too, but that is expected. If I wanted to listen to music while jogging though, I think i would buy the best music player... and maybe video player (you know, for breaks ). haha, but i don't.
the missus just ordered a blue zune hd though (ahh, proof they can coexist).
oh, and "pocketable" is quoted because it isn't a word.
there wasn't much response about oled screens though. I mean, does anybody disagree with me? the first point in the article is completely wrong... right? wikipedia? actual sources?
What a hilariously one sided fanboy fueld article that was.
I listened to MacBreak Weekly on my iPhone this morning and surprise surprise, ALL the Mac heads who host the show and had used the Zune HD absolutely loved it. The apparently amazing screen, great UI, and Zune Pass were all picked out as stand out features.
I live in the UK so for me the Zune may as well not exist, but if it was available here I'd be seriously considering one.
I don't know what you review for, but to say that the output is lower quality is just wrong. Apple's earbuds are crap. That's true, and it's puzzling. but line output, and headphone output is just as good as anything out there, and I'm someone with a mid five figure audio system who has owned a company that designed pro audio equipment.
Sorry, but if you really think that iPod audio out is "just as good as anything out there", then you either 1) don't own a 5 figure audio system or 2) Don't care what it sounds like.
Yes, the iPod is good enough for most consumers, but that is simply because they do not know what good sound quality is. They hear music, but don't really listen to it. Look at home audio. People spend THOUSANDS on HD tvs and buy horrible HTIBs for their audio.
This was an interesting and informative article. Still, I really couldn't help but notice a very anti-Microsoft viewpoint throughout it.
I've seen how the Zune has not been anywhere near as popular as the iPod. I'm sure we could all say that. I've also talked to people who own Zune players, and all of them have said the same thing--that they were not satisfied in some way or another. Most of them thought the player hardware was good but the software that came with it was not so good.
iFixit did a teardown of this new Zune, and I've got to admit that the Zune team did a good job on the hardware engineering. In particular, it appears to be possible to take the thing apart without violence or a high risk of doing irreversible damage to it. As much as I like the iPod Touch platform, servicing one is more difficult than it should be.
I agree completely with this article's author on the state of the Windows Mobile software. I've used that since it was called Windows CE. One thing about Windows CE/Mobile that has always bugged me is how Microsoft left it up to the device OEM to decide if you were ever going to get software upgrades to fix bugs or move to new versions. This sort of thing is a joke to put it mildly. Early devices usually had non-flashable ROMs, so any update had to come by installing new ROMs into the unit, if your manufacturer ever offered them.
Later device came closer to getting this right, by including flashable ROMs. But you still had to have the support of your OEM to get a new a release of Windows Mobile software or any updates. This was also ridiculous, epsecially for devices like Toshiba's ill-fated E740 that never even actually worked and were abandoned before software that could let them work was developed.
Apple has really gotten that part of the iTouch family of devices right. It doesn't matter which one you have, getting the latest software is at most a matter of a few dollars and maybe fifteen minutes (most of the time).
Hmm... it will never turn off loyal Apple supporters, but I think among that big Windows market share there are many users who use iPod not because it is Apple, but because it is better for them than competition.
Since so many of them don't have real brand loyalty, I think they can easily turn to the other brand on their next gadget refresh if other brand delivers.
So at this point it is a question of will MS be able to deliver competitive ecosystem with their new media player? Of course apple has big head-start with their iPod/iPhone/iTunes dynasty, but MS can pull a few good cards out with smart XBOX integration (something Apple simply can't right now) and with good enough player and accompanying desktop software/music store, they can nibble into iPod territory quite nicely.
To take market by storm they will not, but to gain market share significantly (compared to present one)..? We'll see.
My point was that people were upset because the iPod touch doesn't have a camera. If a camera is what they want, the ZuneHD isn't for them either. If they want the other features that the ZuneHD has to offer, that's fine, but that isn't what they've been saying they want.
Reading zome early reviews of the Zune, it doesn't seem that microsoft has a major interest in actually competing directly with the iPod touch. The Zune is first and foremost a PMP, while the iPod touch is more of a portable computer. There isn't going to be a major app push from Microsoft for a long time, if ever. Apps are relegated to a menu option on the home screen, instead of displayed prominently on the home screen as with the touch. The narrower screen makes web browsing less effective, but works fine for music and movies. The ZuneHD is really aimed at something like the Samsung P3, which it is superior to in many ways.
If you want a touchscreen device primarily for your music (or movies), the ZuneHD will probably work quite well for you, and it does have a couple great ways to discover new music that the Touch will never offer, but you have to be prepared to give up a lot of functionality that a device such as the iPod touch has.
Unfortunately it appears that Microsoft left out some simple refinements such as physical volume controls and always present music controls in their media player. Overall it seems to fit in with Microsofts current mindset, which is good and bad. Microsoft is great at making a slick looking UI. Look no further than Windows Media Center, Windows 7 or of course the ZuneHD. They also pack their sofware full of features and the ZuneHD continues this with 720p output, OLED screen and HD radio. Where they stumble is in functionality and ease of use. The Windows Media Center remote is a nightmare (what button do I press now, and where is it?) and WMC has far too many many menu items that detract from a potentially excellent product. Furthermore WMC runs in 64 bit mode by default while WMP runs in 32 bit mode, unsuspecting users will be surprised when a video plays in WMP but wont open in WMC (because you don't have the proper 64 bit codec for the file, but you do have the 32 bit one). Windows 7/Vista's document flip looks pretty, but its functionality pales in comparision to something like expose. Again the ZuneHD seems to thrive on visual flair, even at the expense of functionality. Menu based navigation and hidden controls really work against it here, at least in my opinion. It is amusing that Apple is often considered to provide form over function, yet I see it in Microsoft products alot. Visual flair too often gets in the way of actual usability, which is another reason why Apple started using the moniker "it just works".
Sorry, but if you really think that iPod audio out is "just as good as anything out there", then you either 1) don't own a 5 figure audio system or 2) Don't care what it sounds like.
Yes, the iPod is good enough for most consumers, but that is simply because they do not know what good sound quality is. They hear music, but don't really listen to it. Look at home audio. People spend THOUSANDS on HD tvs and buy horrible HTIBs for their audio.
I really don't see any reason why we should believe anything that someone who just pops up in here, who we don't know, and who claims to do reviews for - what, we don't know, should be listened to. People here know who I am, and they know my background.
One of the first PMPs with an OLED screen (the Sony X-Series being the other major one), the Zune HD theoretically has a sharper picture and deeper blacks compared with LED screens like the one on the iPod Touch.
The Zune HD's screen is a 3.3-inch multitouch capacitive touchscreen, in a 16:9 (widescreen) ratio running at an ironically non-HD 480x272. The iPod Touch, in comparison, is a 3.5-inch multitouch capacitive LED, but in 4:3 (fullscreen) ratio running at 480×320, which is more efficient for web browsing but a waste of space for straightforward media playback. They're pretty equal in responsiveness, both being about as accurate a touchscreen as you're likely to find.
The Zune HD's screen is definitely sharper and with truer colors than the iPod Touch, when compared with the same video (a standard-def episode of Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations). The iPod Touch's pixels were clearly visible and the color seemed washed out and weak compared to the Zune HD. However, it's not a perfect win for OLED: The Zune HD's screen is extremely reflective, making it difficult to read in sunlight, while the iPod Touch's LED was quite easy to read in the same conditions.
Part of this difference is due to technology and part of this is due to UI. The iPod touch uses black text on white for music and video browsing, while the Zune HD is reversed. The Zune HD's black background acts as a mirror, making it difficult to see anything but your own annoyed face.
Quote:
HD radio allows for both more stations and (hopefully) higher quality broadcasts. The Zune HD's radio will often pick up two simultaneous broadcasts from one station, like San Francisco's KFOG-1 and KFOG-2. The Zune HD's reception is excellent, at least as clear as the iPod Nano, able to pick up a handful of HD stations, all with RDS data (artist, song name). Like the Nano, the Zune HD can pause and cache live radio, a great function, though it also cannot record.
Quote:
This is a serious surprise, after seeing the similar Sony X-Series's browser crash, burn, and then explode shards of awful all over me, but the Zune HD's internet browser is awesome. The narrower 3.3-inch widescreen isn't as spacious as that of the iPod Touch and pages definitely load a little slower, but besides that it's a full-featured, fast and responsive browser. The accelerometer is very quick, panning is smooth and easy, and the standard multitouch gestures (pinch, drag) work nicely. Unfortunately, the Zune HD does not support YouTube or any other Flash video, which would have been a nice feature for quickly listening to new music.
The soft keyboard is functional (if a little small), built-in Bing search works well, and even an intense site like Gizmodo loads with no problem. Please, Microsoft: Stick this browser in Windows Mobile.
Quote:
The Zune HD is the best touchscreen PMP on the market. It's got the most unique vision, the most impressive hardware and the most stylish software. It's priced fairly at $220 for 16GB and $290 for 32GB, though I'd call the $90 dock a required accessory.
But I'm not sure that's enough. PMPs like the Zune HD and Sony X-Series try to advance the genre with new and impressive media playback features, but the success of the iPod Touch shows that that media playback alone isn't necessarily enough anymore. People seem to want pocketable computers, either in smartphone or near-smartphone form, or simpler, smaller devices like the iPod Nano and SanDisk's Sansa line. So it's not going to steal sales from the iPod Touch, but it should make some Samsung and Sony executives pretty jealous.
Comments
Microsoft has added is all sizzle and no steak.
What you meant to say is "Microsoft made a whole lot of stew without much meat".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1D8oIC2gfg
Here's an early review of the new Zune 4.0 software:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1D8oIC2gfg
Interesting for what it is, but he isn't showing anything of real interest. The video has some problems with stopping in the beginning.
I think if you're going to call people "thick" you should append it to a post that doesn't suggest you're a fucking idiot, yeah?
iPhone users absolutely use their phones as a media player, as well as a pocketable computer. That's, you know, pretty much what it was designed to be.
Many Touch users want that same functionality, but without the phone app or the phone charges.
I have no idea what you mean by declaring your phone your pocketable computer (why the scare quotes on pocketable, I wonder) but go on to make some confused assertions about inferior media players (compared to the Zune, I guess). The Touch is the iPhone without the phone app, so not seeing how that would make it "worse" than what you're already doing with your phone, but I suspect you don't know what you mean either and are just sort of making combative noises with a Zune-ward slant. Or something.
At any rate, I'd rather have a single device that did a lot of things. Modest improvements in image quality and battery life wouldn't be enough to tip the scales for me, since the upside of being able to a ton of other stuff with the same device would carry the day.
I really doubt that the dedicated MP3/video player has much a future, any more than people carry around transistor radios.
haha, this guy should calm down. we are talking about toys here. the end of that post contradicts the beginning, though.
first the defense for having a device that can't do it all, then at the end slamming a device without all of the features.
well, I'm sure all of the people i know with ipod nanos and classics would have to disagree with you, and some people like to leave their media player in the car, hooked up to their audio system, or want to use a media player while working out and not drain their cell phone battery. don't give me any bull about the iphone's battery because I've had one (original) and my girlfriend(3g) has to charge hers every night just using it for push email, calls, and the occasional facebook. calls take up a lot of battery and, personally, when i use my phone for business, battery runs down.
But take my opinion with a grain of salt since i don't have any of these. haha, i just use my phone as, well, a phone and my car has a hard drive for music already. I just don't like to demote competition because it has a different name.
and, you know, if you have a life, that iphone wont last all day. I mean I guess it does if you don't call anybody, and nobody calls you. I currently have an android phone, and yes, I have to charge this one every night too, but that is expected. If I wanted to listen to music while jogging though, I think i would buy the best music player... and maybe video player (you know, for breaks
the missus just ordered a blue zune hd though (ahh, proof they can coexist).
oh, and "pocketable" is quoted because it isn't a word.
there wasn't much response about oled screens though. I mean, does anybody disagree with me? the first point in the article is completely wrong... right? wikipedia? actual sources?
I listened to MacBreak Weekly on my iPhone this morning and surprise surprise, ALL the Mac heads who host the show and had used the Zune HD absolutely loved it. The apparently amazing screen, great UI, and Zune Pass were all picked out as stand out features.
I live in the UK so for me the Zune may as well not exist, but if it was available here I'd be seriously considering one.
I don't know what you review for, but to say that the output is lower quality is just wrong. Apple's earbuds are crap. That's true, and it's puzzling. but line output, and headphone output is just as good as anything out there, and I'm someone with a mid five figure audio system who has owned a company that designed pro audio equipment.
Sorry, but if you really think that iPod audio out is "just as good as anything out there", then you either 1) don't own a 5 figure audio system or 2) Don't care what it sounds like.
Yes, the iPod is good enough for most consumers, but that is simply because they do not know what good sound quality is. They hear music, but don't really listen to it. Look at home audio. People spend THOUSANDS on HD tvs and buy horrible HTIBs for their audio.
Is it just me, or is melgross repsonsible for at least 150 of the 400+ posts on this thread?
Is it just me, or have you been here all of ten minutes?
I've seen how the Zune has not been anywhere near as popular as the iPod. I'm sure we could all say that. I've also talked to people who own Zune players, and all of them have said the same thing--that they were not satisfied in some way or another. Most of them thought the player hardware was good but the software that came with it was not so good.
iFixit did a teardown of this new Zune, and I've got to admit that the Zune team did a good job on the hardware engineering. In particular, it appears to be possible to take the thing apart without violence or a high risk of doing irreversible damage to it. As much as I like the iPod Touch platform, servicing one is more difficult than it should be.
I agree completely with this article's author on the state of the Windows Mobile software. I've used that since it was called Windows CE. One thing about Windows CE/Mobile that has always bugged me is how Microsoft left it up to the device OEM to decide if you were ever going to get software upgrades to fix bugs or move to new versions. This sort of thing is a joke to put it mildly. Early devices usually had non-flashable ROMs, so any update had to come by installing new ROMs into the unit, if your manufacturer ever offered them.
Later device came closer to getting this right, by including flashable ROMs. But you still had to have the support of your OEM to get a new a release of Windows Mobile software or any updates. This was also ridiculous, epsecially for devices like Toshiba's ill-fated E740 that never even actually worked and were abandoned before software that could let them work was developed.
Apple has really gotten that part of the iTouch family of devices right. It doesn't matter which one you have, getting the latest software is at most a matter of a few dollars and maybe fifteen minutes (most of the time).
while this is a fan site and bias is expected, some behaviour standards should be respected. And forced.
YOU LIE !!l!
Hmm... it will never turn off loyal Apple supporters, but I think among that big Windows market share there are many users who use iPod not because it is Apple, but because it is better for them than competition.
Since so many of them don't have real brand loyalty, I think they can easily turn to the other brand on their next gadget refresh if other brand delivers.
So at this point it is a question of will MS be able to deliver competitive ecosystem with their new media player? Of course apple has big head-start with their iPod/iPhone/iTunes dynasty, but MS can pull a few good cards out with smart XBOX integration (something Apple simply can't right now) and with good enough player and accompanying desktop software/music store, they can nibble into iPod territory quite nicely.
To take market by storm they will not, but to gain market share significantly (compared to present one)..? We'll see.
My point was that people were upset because the iPod touch doesn't have a camera. If a camera is what they want, the ZuneHD isn't for them either. If they want the other features that the ZuneHD has to offer, that's fine, but that isn't what they've been saying they want.
Reading zome early reviews of the Zune, it doesn't seem that microsoft has a major interest in actually competing directly with the iPod touch. The Zune is first and foremost a PMP, while the iPod touch is more of a portable computer. There isn't going to be a major app push from Microsoft for a long time, if ever. Apps are relegated to a menu option on the home screen, instead of displayed prominently on the home screen as with the touch. The narrower screen makes web browsing less effective, but works fine for music and movies. The ZuneHD is really aimed at something like the Samsung P3, which it is superior to in many ways.
If you want a touchscreen device primarily for your music (or movies), the ZuneHD will probably work quite well for you, and it does have a couple great ways to discover new music that the Touch will never offer, but you have to be prepared to give up a lot of functionality that a device such as the iPod touch has.
Unfortunately it appears that Microsoft left out some simple refinements such as physical volume controls and always present music controls in their media player. Overall it seems to fit in with Microsofts current mindset, which is good and bad. Microsoft is great at making a slick looking UI. Look no further than Windows Media Center, Windows 7 or of course the ZuneHD. They also pack their sofware full of features and the ZuneHD continues this with 720p output, OLED screen and HD radio. Where they stumble is in functionality and ease of use. The Windows Media Center remote is a nightmare (what button do I press now, and where is it?) and WMC has far too many many menu items that detract from a potentially excellent product. Furthermore WMC runs in 64 bit mode by default while WMP runs in 32 bit mode, unsuspecting users will be surprised when a video plays in WMP but wont open in WMC (because you don't have the proper 64 bit codec for the file, but you do have the 32 bit one). Windows 7/Vista's document flip looks pretty, but its functionality pales in comparision to something like expose. Again the ZuneHD seems to thrive on visual flair, even at the expense of functionality. Menu based navigation and hidden controls really work against it here, at least in my opinion. It is amusing that Apple is often considered to provide form over function, yet I see it in Microsoft products alot. Visual flair too often gets in the way of actual usability, which is another reason why Apple started using the moniker "it just works".
Sorry, but if you really think that iPod audio out is "just as good as anything out there", then you either 1) don't own a 5 figure audio system or 2) Don't care what it sounds like.
Yes, the iPod is good enough for most consumers, but that is simply because they do not know what good sound quality is. They hear music, but don't really listen to it. Look at home audio. People spend THOUSANDS on HD tvs and buy horrible HTIBs for their audio.
I really don't see any reason why we should believe anything that someone who just pops up in here, who we don't know, and who claims to do reviews for - what, we don't know, should be listened to. People here know who I am, and they know my background.
Who are you?
Is it just me, or is melgross repsonsible for at least 150 of the 400+ posts on this thread?
Yes, I post a lot, so people know me.
And you're what, exactly? A nobody to us!
Give some reason as to why we should care about what you say.
You can skip your snarky remarks. You haven't earned the right to make them.
Far too many fanboy naysayers here - you appear to be running scared. Why not buy a new ipod touch with a camera that doesn't work in the dark.
Wow! What a helpful remark.
Why not buy a Zune, also without a camera, and no programs, and a crappy browser.
http://gizmodo.com/5360126/zune-hd-r...yline=true&s=i
One of the first PMPs with an OLED screen (the Sony X-Series being the other major one), the Zune HD theoretically has a sharper picture and deeper blacks compared with LED screens like the one on the iPod Touch.
The Zune HD's screen is a 3.3-inch multitouch capacitive touchscreen, in a 16:9 (widescreen) ratio running at an ironically non-HD 480x272. The iPod Touch, in comparison, is a 3.5-inch multitouch capacitive LED, but in 4:3 (fullscreen) ratio running at 480×320, which is more efficient for web browsing but a waste of space for straightforward media playback. They're pretty equal in responsiveness, both being about as accurate a touchscreen as you're likely to find.
The Zune HD's screen is definitely sharper and with truer colors than the iPod Touch, when compared with the same video (a standard-def episode of Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations). The iPod Touch's pixels were clearly visible and the color seemed washed out and weak compared to the Zune HD. However, it's not a perfect win for OLED: The Zune HD's screen is extremely reflective, making it difficult to read in sunlight, while the iPod Touch's LED was quite easy to read in the same conditions.
Part of this difference is due to technology and part of this is due to UI. The iPod touch uses black text on white for music and video browsing, while the Zune HD is reversed. The Zune HD's black background acts as a mirror, making it difficult to see anything but your own annoyed face.
HD radio allows for both more stations and (hopefully) higher quality broadcasts. The Zune HD's radio will often pick up two simultaneous broadcasts from one station, like San Francisco's KFOG-1 and KFOG-2. The Zune HD's reception is excellent, at least as clear as the iPod Nano, able to pick up a handful of HD stations, all with RDS data (artist, song name). Like the Nano, the Zune HD can pause and cache live radio, a great function, though it also cannot record.
This is a serious surprise, after seeing the similar Sony X-Series's browser crash, burn, and then explode shards of awful all over me, but the Zune HD's internet browser is awesome. The narrower 3.3-inch widescreen isn't as spacious as that of the iPod Touch and pages definitely load a little slower, but besides that it's a full-featured, fast and responsive browser. The accelerometer is very quick, panning is smooth and easy, and the standard multitouch gestures (pinch, drag) work nicely. Unfortunately, the Zune HD does not support YouTube or any other Flash video, which would have been a nice feature for quickly listening to new music.
The soft keyboard is functional (if a little small), built-in Bing search works well, and even an intense site like Gizmodo loads with no problem. Please, Microsoft: Stick this browser in Windows Mobile.
The Zune HD is the best touchscreen PMP on the market. It's got the most unique vision, the most impressive hardware and the most stylish software. It's priced fairly at $220 for 16GB and $290 for 32GB, though I'd call the $90 dock a required accessory.
But I'm not sure that's enough. PMPs like the Zune HD and Sony X-Series try to advance the genre with new and impressive media playback features, but the success of the iPod Touch shows that that media playback alone isn't necessarily enough anymore. People seem to want pocketable computers, either in smartphone or near-smartphone form, or simpler, smaller devices like the iPod Nano and SanDisk's Sansa line. So it's not going to steal sales from the iPod Touch, but it should make some Samsung and Sony executives pretty jealous.
From the folks at Gizmodo (bunch of Apple lovers too, I think their entire staff uses Macs):
That view of the browser isn't universal:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...d-review.ars/3