USB forum sides with Apple in Palm Pre sync dispute
In a serious blow to Palm's fight to have its Pre smartphone sync with iTunes, the USB Implementers Forum has sided with Apple and chastised Palm for violating the forum's policies.
Palm initially petitioned the USB-IF in hopes that it would side with the handset maker in its efforts to have the Pre sync with Apple's iTunes music application, according to Digital Daily. But the group responded with a letter to both Palm and Apple this week, in which it said the Pre's alleged use of Apple's vendor ID violated its rules.
"Under the Policy, Palm may only use the single Vendor ID issued to Palm for Palm?s usage," the USB-IF letter states. "Usage of any other company?s Vendor ID is specifically precluded. Palm?s expressed intent to use Apple?s VID appears to violate the attached policy."
The letter also said that Apple's use of the vendor ID to limit iTunes syncing to proprietary hardware like the iPhone and iPod is within the rules of the USB-IF. It specifically said that Apple's actions are not "improper."
The USB-IF is a non-profit organization that supports the Universal Serial Bus and sets the standards for the hardware input. Unique vendor IDs are necessary for developing USB products.
Since the launch of the Palm Pre, the company and Apple have been engaged in a back-and-forth battle. When it first debuted, the Pre was able to sync with iTunes and transfer music from a user's library. Apple fired back and disabled the sync, only for Palm to respond. In the latest twist, the iTunes 9 update issued earlier this month again broke sync with the Palm Pre.
When contacted by Digital Daily, Palm said it is reviewing the USB-IF letter and intends to respond.
"We engaged with the USB-IF because we believe consumers should have freedom and choice in how and where they use the non-rights managed media they already own," Palm said.
Palm initially petitioned the USB-IF in hopes that it would side with the handset maker in its efforts to have the Pre sync with Apple's iTunes music application, according to Digital Daily. But the group responded with a letter to both Palm and Apple this week, in which it said the Pre's alleged use of Apple's vendor ID violated its rules.
"Under the Policy, Palm may only use the single Vendor ID issued to Palm for Palm?s usage," the USB-IF letter states. "Usage of any other company?s Vendor ID is specifically precluded. Palm?s expressed intent to use Apple?s VID appears to violate the attached policy."
The letter also said that Apple's use of the vendor ID to limit iTunes syncing to proprietary hardware like the iPhone and iPod is within the rules of the USB-IF. It specifically said that Apple's actions are not "improper."
The USB-IF is a non-profit organization that supports the Universal Serial Bus and sets the standards for the hardware input. Unique vendor IDs are necessary for developing USB products.
Since the launch of the Palm Pre, the company and Apple have been engaged in a back-and-forth battle. When it first debuted, the Pre was able to sync with iTunes and transfer music from a user's library. Apple fired back and disabled the sync, only for Palm to respond. In the latest twist, the iTunes 9 update issued earlier this month again broke sync with the Palm Pre.
When contacted by Digital Daily, Palm said it is reviewing the USB-IF letter and intends to respond.
"We engaged with the USB-IF because we believe consumers should have freedom and choice in how and where they use the non-rights managed media they already own," Palm said.
Comments
"We engaged with the USB-IF because we believe consumers should have freedom and choice in how and where they use the non-rights managed media they already own," Palm said.
Wow, think of all the time and frustration and bad press Palm could have avoided if they had just "engaged" with their software development department to develop their own syncing software.
"We engaged with the USB-IF because we believe consumers should have freedom and choice in how and where they use the non-rights managed media they already own," Palm said.
Yes, it's sad to see Palm, which was once a great technology company, stoop to this level of disingenuous behavior. Well, perhaps someone will buy them, otherwise, they're doomed. (Although, I think they'd be a weird fit at Nokia.) Many parallels to Apple's corporate history, and many interesting lessons to be found in the divergences.
Secondly, Palm should take the issue higher and argue for "reverse engineering for reasons of interoperability", which would give it a chance of winning the argument, at least in some markets. Sadly, in the EU, where they might have a better chance, they're not even selling the Pre!
Personally I believe that as Apple ship iTunes as system software, it should provide a native, built-in support for third party media syncing via a specified protocol that maybe could require licensing fees from the hardware manufacturer to use.
Many parallels to Apple's corporate history, and many interesting lessons to be found in the divergences.
Say more?
Say more?
Well, there's the whole "license the OS" thing that they both got suckered into.
As is known, Palm decided to take it to the extreme of spinning it off as a separate company, lost all control of it, saw its market collapse, ...
Apple killed the clones, and the contrast in fortunes as a result could not be starker.
I seriously doubt Palm will just give up and go away. What do you think their next move will be?
One more question. When they appealed to the USB IF, WHAT WERE THEY SMOKING???
I don't really understand why Apple doesn't license the ability for other devices to interface with iTunes. I don't own an iPod or iPhone because of iTunes. I own the devices because the devices are good, not because of the software they interface with. Lately, I am finding iTunes more and more annoying with each update.
You may not own an iPod because of iTunes, but there are many that do. iTunes exists solely as a backbone to sell more iPods and iPhones, and therefore it is in Apple's best interests to keep iTunes working with only those devices. Apple does not prohibit other devices from being used on your Mac, only that you use different software. In Windows, I cannot sync my iPod with Windows Media Player (at least natively). It's the same thing. If Apple opens up iTunes to any device, they lose their advantage in the marketplace. It may sound bad to people on here, but that's capitalism. You find any advantage you can, in this case iTunes, and use it to your fullest extent to market and sell your products. Apple makes no money off of iTunes, but they make an unreal amount of money off of iPods and iPhones, and they will never make up revenue lost by licensing fees alone. Why would they willingly cannibalize that just so we on a forum are happy?
So, now Palm... going to make your own software that can "sync" with iTunes?
I don't own an iPod or iPhone because of iTunes. I own the devices because the devices are good, not because of the software they interface with.
That is somewhat disingenuous. Of course you own it because of the syncing software among other things. It is a seamless experience that you don't have to think about. It is such an integral part of the experience you hardly know its there at all. It is sort of like air; we don't appreciate it until we no longer have enough of it.
The absence of an iTunes like conduit is a glaring fault in just about every other device that needs to share data with a computer. If it was so unimportant, other companies would not be trying so hard to duplicate the experience. Palm has staked their entire business on this insignificant little thing. Of course iTunes is one of the reasons you have an iPod. You just don't realize it.
Firstly, Palm should just create an iSync conduit (and whatever the PC equivalent is) that uses the XML files that iTunes creates for that purpose.
Nokia does this already with Nokia Multimedia Transfer software.
"We engaged with the USB-IF because we believe consumers should have freedom and choice in how and where they use the non-rights managed media they already own," Palm said.
This cracks me up.
iTunes purchases and RIP'd music can be used on the Palm Pre, no problems at all.
The Blackberry Media Sync app is so basic, but syncs all your iTunes playlists, songs videos etc. Why Palm didn't just do something like that, who knows.
Wow, think of all the time and frustration and bad press Palm could have avoided if they had just "engaged" with their software development department to develop their own syncing software.
yep. they are trying to play this like Apple is blocking the Pre from being recognized as even attached to the computer, but it is not. I could probably also attach a zune to my macbook and it would know something was there although it wouldn't know what to do with it.
Personally I believe that as Apple ship iTunes as system software, it should provide a native, built-in support for third party media syncing via a specified protocol that maybe could require licensing fees from the hardware manufacturer to use.
and then Palm wouldn't pay the fees. Why should they when they can just hack in.
I don't really understand why Apple doesn't license the ability for other devices to interface with iTunes.
Because they don't want to and don't have to. just like they currently don't have to allow hardware clones.
Apple is about the complete package so until the law says they have to do otherwise, expect them to keep limiting itunes, the OS and yes even the app store.
I would think that anyone is free to take the non-DRMd files out of iTunes and use whatever jukebox they want to load them onto whatever device they want.
they can and have been able to every since the first DRMfree file appeared like 2 years ago. you just have to do it on the finder level.
on a similar note, any company can write a program that reads the tag list of what tracks you own cause itunes puts it in an XML file just for this. no fees or permissions needed. Palm just didn't want to do this. they would rather, as someone else once posted, trust their user experience to another party. which isn't really perhaps the best move.
"We engaged with the USB-IF because we believe consumers should have freedom and choice in how and where they use the non-rights managed media they already own," Palm said.
as far as i know there is nothing preventing me from determining how and where i use the non-rights managed media i already own.
but it's interesting to know that palm thinks itunes is the only game in town.
i bought the car. the gas station attendant needs a package delivered. every time i stop for gas he slips said package into the back of my car. and he never asks. just pay for the delivery yourself you sneaky bastard.
That is somewhat disingenuous. Of course you own it because of the syncing software among other things. It is a seamless experience that you don't have to think about. It is such an integral part of the experience you hardly know its there at all. It is sort of like air; we don't appreciate it until we no longer have enough of it.
The absence of an iTunes like conduit is a glaring fault in just about every other device that needs to share data with a computer. If it was so unimportant, other companies would not be trying so hard to duplicate the experience. Palm has staked their entire business on this insignificant little thing. Of course iTunes is one of the reasons you have an iPod. You just don't realize it.
Yes, iTunes is air for me. I wouldn't know how to get along without it. Thank you for bringing that clarity to my life.
And while iTunes syncing is a convenience for Pre users, it is hardly something "Palm has staked their entire business on" working.
Wow, think of all the time and frustration and bad press Palm could have avoided if they had just "engaged" with their software development department to develop their own syncing software.
Seriously! I'm not a programmer, but how hard could it be? Locating the iTunes Music folder should be trivial. And that folder is organized in a very structured manner, so working with is should be easy. They could then either parse the iTunes XML library file to all the playlists and other info (Apple could potentially change the format of that list as a counter measure, but I think that would be less likely), or Palm's app could let you create your own playlists.
Considering all the work and invenstment in creating a good mobile device, it's surprising they got so cheap on the sync application.
Personally I believe that as Apple ship iTunes as system software, it should provide a native, built-in support for third party media syncing via a specified protocol that maybe could require licensing fees from the hardware manufacturer to use.
iTunes is no more "system software" than iPhoto or any of the other iLife apps or many of the other apps that come with your Mac. Just because it's pre-installed doesn't make it a system component that would be expected to provide some system-wide service.
The iSync frameworks and WebKit provide services that other applications can make use of. iTunes is just another application that uses those services and it does not provide any system services of it's own. There are many other 3rd party application/hardware products that access the iTunes library, Roku comes to mind. There is nothing preventing Palm from following that path.