Actually Apple has over the last year been cutting back on the higher saleried store staff, instead choosing to have store mgmt be enabled to push staff's hard and lower expenses at same time. Sorry to say the old days of really knowledgable staff is gone, not to say alot of the people don't know what they are doing at the Apple Stores, but Apple is choosing a retail strategy that costs them less overhead to maintain.
Wish it were otherwise, but in my market, Apple mgmt is driving out lots of their retail staff and many of them have been replaced by somewhat lower cost staff, just another effect of the recession sadly. Apple Corporate would never admit to this and alot of this is dressed up to look like the manager of a particular store or group of stores. but... it isn't that. It is a deliberate campaign to lower Apple retail employee costs.
Combine that with the fact that Microsoft is launching their own major market store initiative... it is no small reason why so many Apple Store staff that are unhappy with the state of affairs at Apple Retail are willing to accept generous salary packages and jump ship to Microsoft. Yes... sorry mac folk, but its strange to say but Microsoft is becoming the easier and happier place by comparison for people to work at. Apple... is running the risk of becoming the old "evil" Microsoft.
Thanks for that piece of information. This is very sad to hear. Maybe some people should actually walk out of a few stores for some bells to be rung. It's a tough situation to handle what with apple growing so much and the recession, but surely there's a better way to do this that won't manage to hurt BOTH apple's serving us the public AND the workforce too. Because once something goes bad, well you just chuck it out of the window, and they shouldn't allow that to happen. Let's see.
Just curious...are you saying that every employee that's unhappy with how the management is run should walk out? Some people can't afford to just walk out of their job...
And I am unclear on the pointed remark you're trying to make with your last sentence.
You are right, I guess I didn't make myself very clear. I am agreeing with you about not being able to just walk out. Most of us have commitments that require a steady stream of money.
My other comment was directed at Ruel24 - they are called management because that is what THEY are paid to do - manage, and if they indeed do a good job, production (which is what the workers do) will be good.
Of course abusive management is always uncalled for.
Spoken like a true union man! Never mind the facts, never mind the economic realities; ALL managers are bad, ALL 'workers' are good. Black and White, Them and Us.\
He's not wrong though in that there is a clear and powerful force pushing things that way. The issue is what to do to counterbalance this. And that of course is what many of you at the U.S. dread: governmental intervention. I don't blame you for dreading this, it's your upbringing, and it's also largely true that intervention can mess things up even worse. But it's also the lesser of two evils, and it's what actually salvaged the economies of the world from a complete melt down. Or so I understand with my rudimentary economics.
No, I'm not management. I work for a large construction company, and we have had two people protesting outside of our headquarters for approximately six months. They were never employees of ours; they are protesting because we hired non-union workers in a job down in Missouri. Now I personally have overseen the high wages and benefits the union workers receive. It is well above living wage.
For our non-union workers we're required to pay a comparable amount as union workers. So do they deserve the job less than the union workers?
Sorry for the rambling, my point is just because people are striking doesn't automatically make them right. (Again, I'm not saying this is\\isn't the case for these Apple workers. I just take protest\\strikes with a grain of salt.)
The pay requirement would not have existed in the first place had it not been through years of effort by, ahem, labor unions.
The measures taken by unions to ensure their self-preservation may seem off-putting, but it's beyond question that the fairness of the labor market is increased when workers act collectively.
The pay requirement would not have existed in the first place had it not been through years of effort by, ahem, labor unions.
The measures taken by unions to ensure their self-preservation may seem off-putting, but it's beyond question that the fairness of the labor market is increased when workers act collectively.
I completely agree. My point wasn't to harp on unions; I was just using the situation as an example.
OMG, I almost feel ashamed to be a member of an Apple-centric forum, knowing there're such obsessive people out there! Sure Apple make okay tech. stuff, but, remote control helicopter filming of their latest retail building site?!
Yeah, my thought exactly - totally ott - on every level. Still, don't feel ashamed, feel good. It justifies the fact that you are even here when you clearly should be working. I mean, reading about this makes me feel so fucking sane and grounded its not even funny. Mind you, if he makes a living from flying his radio controlled helicopter, who am I to judge.
Yes there are corrupt union bosses but there are also corrupt corporate bosses. On balance though, the country is far, far better off because of unions. Anyone who doesn't agree, go work for a sweatshop and enjoy the union-free capitalist utopia.
Management getting bonuses for the normal employees hard work? Welcome to the real world
That's what I was thinking too. I worked for Gap, if we made our sales goal and our credit card goals, management got a bonus. We got nothing. I worked for both Borders and Barnes and Noble. Management definitely got a bonus at Borders cause I was a supervisor there and got it. and if I got it for that I know the higher ups did.
it is just part of retail.
NOW if the management of said store was openly giving hours according to an individuals performance and enforcing or not rules by that performance that is different. It is certainly not fair, but it might not be against the rules or if it is provable. Because there might not be a paper trail to back up, for example, that it is ignored when someone who gets 60-75% of those 3 items takes a 12-15 minute on the clock break (that is supposed to be 10 minutes) every freaking break, but someone who gets only 20% gets a tongue lashing for stepping off the floor to go to the bathroom and is watched like a hawk for their break time so they don't go out one second late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
PLEASE, don't be quick to judge or dismiss the working personel at the apple stores. Besides it being tasteless to do so, it's also harsh to not offer support to people who really need it in this day and age. And that is more often than not, not the management but the work force.
yes but by the flip, don't be so quick to judge the management when you lack all the details. this whole 'we are required to sell' thing is NOTHING new to any company. everyone has their thing. Gap has their credit cards, Barnes and Noble the reader card, Borders the same. Some Best Buy stores were accused of lying about stock status on high priced items because the customer didn't want to buy the extended warranty. and so on. so to say 'we are required to sell' is nada in terms of a good reason to complain or walk out.
there has to be something more to the game and we don't know what that is. until we do we can't really bash the management for being abusive. Being bitchy perhaps, but there's no law against being a bitch to your staff. Nor is HR going to care so long as that bitch isn't racist, sexist etc and gets sales results. it sucks but it is a fact of life when you work retail, assume your boss is going to be a bitch and deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKWalsh4
No, I'm not management. I work for a large construction company, and we have had two people protesting outside of our headquarters for approximately six months. They were never employees of ours; they are protesting because we hired non-union workers in a job down in Missouri. Now I personally have overseen the high wages and benefits the union workers receive. It is well above living wage.
For our non-union workers we're required to pay a comparable amount as union workers. So do they deserve the job less than the union workers?
Maybe. Was the hiring of non- union workers in that circumstance within and handed according to the union rules and bylaws. if yes, then they have nothing. if not, then it's on the company.
Again a case of needing all the facts before one can have a truly valid opinion on the matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchelljd
Actually Apple has over the last year been cutting back on the higher saleried store staff, instead choosing to have store mgmt be enabled to push staff's hard and lower expenses at same time.
how is that different than any other company, including perhaps even this new Microsoft. We don't know how much higher those higher wages are. We don't know that they won't be as nasty to their staff as Apple and every other retail company. We don't know that they won't have minimums, pay on sales etc.
Quote:
Apple Corporate would never admit to this and alot of this is dressed up to look like the manager of a particular store or group of stores. but... it isn't that. It is a deliberate campaign to lower Apple retail employee costs.
again, how is this different than any other company. I know 2 supervisors and 2 managers at a single Borders store that were laid off because the company cut their positions across the board to save money. And yes at the same time they did send out a memo saying that stores could no longer hire in anyone at full time. all new hires would start at part time (which comes with a lower pay scale, lower max hours for the week and lower benefits). they also cut back the contributions to the full timers retirement, dropped back the employee discount program etc. All to save costs.
Quote:
Combine that with the fact that Microsoft is launching their own major market store initiative... it is no small reason why so many Apple Store staff that are unhappy with the state of affairs at Apple Retail are willing to accept generous salary packages and jump ship to Microsoft.
again a case of not knowing all the facts. We don't know that Microsoft is going after and gotten active Apple employees. or if it is all ex employees that could be out of Apple for other reasons. We don't know what if any other companies were 'head hunted'. We don't know the salaries, the benefits. We can't say that their management is going to be angels. for all we know, the folks they 'stole' from Apple were total asswipes that Apple was happy to be done with because they had no cause legally to fire them. so now this gang of Apple folks that are jumping ship thinking they are getting away from the bitch they had to work for is going to get the bigger bitch that ran the store the next town over. oops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unferth
The measures taken by unions to ensure their self-preservation may seem off-putting, but it's beyond question that the fairness of the labor market is increased when workers act collectively.
yes but again, many if not all unions do have rules about the 'legal' hiring of non union workers under particular conditions. I work in film and I know that SAG has rules about filming in Right to Work states where you can't force someone to join the union to work on a job. If the production does everything they can, and can back up the claim, to hire only union, then they aren't dinged for the nons they do hire for what should be technically a 'union' slot. however they do have to pay the same wages etc as a union would get. on the flip, there's no penalty payment and the person doesn't get a taft into the union.
if the union in the given example has such rules and they were followed then no one can speak against what happened. if they didn't follow the rules, they got what they deserved. we don't have the fact to know which side the coin is on in the case. just like we don't about this Apple thing. However I will say this. The fact that not all employees were going to walk makes it sound like the situation isn't as clear cut as it seems
Thanks for that piece of information. This is very sad to hear. Maybe some people should actually walk out of a few stores for some bells to be rung. It's a tough situation to handle what with apple growing so much and the recession, but surely there's a better way to do this that won't manage to hurt BOTH apple's serving us the public AND the workforce too. Because once something goes bad, well you just chuck it out of the window, and they shouldn't allow that to happen. Let's see.
Well, situation isn't completely dire at Apple Retail, alot of great people work there. who knows, maybe the problem is temporary. but there are issues and seems like alot of them are coming to the surface, especially now that Microsoft is heavily positioning to poach people from Apple's retail team. It looks like Msft has learned from Vista and is trying to change its ways and evangelize.
Apple ought to take a cure from this and get a bit more proprietary about its staff at all levels and do what it can to retain them and keep them happy, even if it means a cent or two less retail "profit" hell, Apple has billions of cash excess profits each quarter. hell, right now they have over $24 Billion in cash. so i don't think they need to worry about 20-50 million each year the extra staff "savings" they are trying to reap. it just isn't worth it.
No we know where all our expensive Mobile Me money is going. The turn over over 100M in one year on Mobile Me, perhaps last year they made $38M profit and decided they wanted a new store.
Actually Apple has over the last year been cutting back on the higher saleried store staff, instead choosing to have store mgmt be enabled to push staff's hard and lower expenses at same time. .
Is this your OPINION or do you have hard verifiable data to back up this claim ... if so please post ... if not, ... stop spreading misinformation, it just cheapens these boards.
Yeah, my thought exactly - totally ott - on every level. Still, don't feel ashamed, feel good. It justifies the fact that you are even here when you clearly should be working. I mean, reading about this makes me feel so fucking sane and grounded its not even funny. Mind you, if he makes a living from flying his radio controlled helicopter, who am I to judge.
Shooting videos and still media from remote helicopters is done all the time in situations where a full size helicopter is not deemed as safe ... what's wrong with that? ... sounds like the right thing to do to me.
Shooting videos and still media from remote helicopters is done all the time in situations where a full size helicopter is not deemed as safe ... what's wrong with that? ... sounds like the right thing to do to me.
Hence the last sentence. Besides that you are either an übergeek or completely missing the point.
I coming from Canada, a place where the right of association is a protected right, though also constantly under attack, it always makes my head spin and my stomach queazy when I see and or interact with American worker and their "rights". The whole issue in the US has taken a very Orwelian discourse. An example is the term "right to work states", a more fitting description would be the German "Arbeite Macht Frei" yes. A major problem with the workplace and the worlds economies as a whole, especially in the United States, is that Capitalism has been left to be what it must be, unbridled and ultimately monopolistic where only the bottom line matters and managers are not there to really manage but to apply dictates from right-wing economic gurus in " capitalist stink tanks". The proper actions always seem to be squeeze the workers, get rid of their advantages and rights and get rid of the workers as soon as possible to be replaced by cheaper workers, etc. etc. If you resist this your are infringing the laws that protect the shareholders. To hell with different styles of management, original, progressive, imaginative, all must comply, even if this is counter productive for the long term viability of an enterprise. Only short term goals matter. anyhow I will finnish by encouraging everyone to go see Michael Moores latest film "Capatalism:A love story" Comming out next month. He explains this much bettor than I ever can.
PLEASE, don't be quick to judge or dismiss the working personel at the apple stores. Besides it being tasteless to do so, it's also harsh to not offer support to people who really need it in this day and age. And that is more often than not, not the management but the work force.
APPLE SHOULD LOOK IN ON THIS ISSUE AND SHOW CARE AND RESPECT FOR THE WORKFORCE, because that's where apple should and usually does stand. If there's a moron manager over there who is abusive they should be dealt with. If the concerns are not that serious they should nevertheless be adressed in an amicable way that shows decency and courtesy to the people at the stores that are the face of apple to the public. We are in harsh financial times and it's justified for some people to be experiencing the adverse effects of this climate. These people should be listened to and not alienated.
And like I said, please don't be broadly and crassly dismissive of the apple store stuff.
It's hard but once in a while we all can try putting ourselves in other peoples' shoes and walking the proverbial mile in them. Show some courtesy and some taste.
I dunno, but maybe this is just some new kind of generation gap issue... employees are expected to add value to the company they work for, not be coddled and treated like members of some kind of extended family. Employees and management should always be professional when they address each other, of course, but maybe the recognition of why they are there in the first place (to make money for Apple and provide customers with a positive perception of the company) needs to be spelled out.
I coming from Canada, a place where the right of association is a protected right, though also constantly under attack, it always makes my head spin and my stomach queazy when I see and or interact with American worker and their "rights". The whole issue in the US has taken a very Orwelian discourse. An example is the term "right to work states", a more fitting description would be the German "Arbeite Macht Frei" yes. A major problem with the workplace and the worlds economies as a whole, especially in the United States, is that Capitalism has been left to be what it must be, unbridled and ultimately monopolistic where only the bottom line matters and managers are not there to really manage but to apply dictates from right-wing economic gurus in " capitalist stink tanks". The proper actions always seem to be squeeze the workers, get rid of their advantages and rights and get rid of the workers as soon as possible to be replaced by cheaper workers, etc. etc. If you resist this your are infringing the laws that protect the shareholders. To hell with different styles of management, original, progressive, imaginative, all must comply, even if this is counter productive for the long term viability of an enterprise. Only short term goals matter. anyhow I will finnish by encouraging everyone to go see Michael Moores latest film "Capatalism:A love story" Comming out next month. He explains this much bettor than I ever can.
Personal politics mean nothing when it comes to running a business and making money. Either you sell something that people want, or you don't. That's it. When government steps in, it introduces something other than a system of exchange that arises when people and companies are allowed to deal with each other peacefully. Government enables price imbalances, unfair competitive advantages, employment imbalances, and the list goes on. Also, I understand Moore's "Capitalism" movie is his 'fairest' yet, as it attacks Republicans and Democrats equally which only makes sense given the level of hypocrisy pouring out of Washington that favors financial institutions and corporations these days.
Also, I understand Moore's "Capitalism" movie is his 'fairest' yet, as it attacks Republicans and Democrats equally which only makes sense given the level of hypocrisy pouring out of Washington that favors financial institutions and corporations these days.
I notice you said 'fairest' suggesting ambiguity. Because attacking both sides doesn't really make anything 'fair'. What's fair is to be critical, regardless. We know how hard that can be as it is far easier to be critical of something you intrinsically and philosophically dislike/ disagree with. And personally I think that is too tall an order for anybody. The worst is really one sided criticism purporting to be 'fair' (FOX news is an example). The Daily Show is also one sided but it doesn't present itself as 'balanced'. Anyway... back to the topic...
Actually Apple has over the last year been cutting back on the higher saleried store staff, instead choosing to have store mgmt be enabled to push staff's hard and lower expenses at same time. Sorry to say the old days of really knowledgable staff is gone, not to say alot of the people don't know what they are doing at the Apple Stores, but Apple is choosing a retail strategy that costs them less overhead to maintain.
Wish it were otherwise, but in my market, Apple mgmt is driving out lots of their retail staff and many of them have been replaced by somewhat lower cost staff, just another effect of the recession sadly. Apple Corporate would never admit to this and alot of this is dressed up to look like the manager of a particular store or group of stores. but... it isn't that. It is a deliberate campaign to lower Apple retail employee costs.
Combine that with the fact that Microsoft is launching their own major market store initiative... it is no small reason why so many Apple Store staff that are unhappy with the state of affairs at Apple Retail are willing to accept generous salary packages and jump ship to Microsoft. Yes... sorry mac folk, but its strange to say but Microsoft is becoming the easier and happier place by comparison for people to work at. Apple... is running the risk of becoming the old "evil" Microsoft. Really wish it were otherwise... but for the moment it appears to be a risk they are ok taking.
What? Microsoft is becoming the easier and happier place by comparison for people to work at?
For one, since we're talking about Apple stores here, and not other areas of each company, there aren't even any Microsoft stores open yet, let alone enough time to see if they are any better a place to work.
And Microsoft as done much the same thing in many places - firing people, moving out higher cost people, etc. to try and address the economic times we're in.
Most companies are doing it in one form other another - addressing the economic times.
Apple stores are doing fantastically because in many ways they are the face of Apple. IF your assertion is that MOST Apple stores are being changed to have lesser qualified people, then it is only due to the recession, and I doubt it will stay that way as we move out of it. The general feeling that I get is that the Apple experience was and continues to be one of if not the best experience for buying at retail stores.
Frankly, until I hear from a LOT of people who frequent the 250 stores that Apple has around the country, then I'll have some idea about whether you assertions are valid.
The person said that employees are upset, some have contacted human resources, and some have quit.
Hey Microsoft. Sounds like your kind of people. . .
I wonder who is responsible for those employees not meeting the targets set. Maybe the management. I guess it would be nice to show up and not have any goals to strive for. I suspect that reaching those goals would lead to reward for the employees as well as the managers.
Comments
Actually Apple has over the last year been cutting back on the higher saleried store staff, instead choosing to have store mgmt be enabled to push staff's hard and lower expenses at same time. Sorry to say the old days of really knowledgable staff is gone, not to say alot of the people don't know what they are doing at the Apple Stores, but Apple is choosing a retail strategy that costs them less overhead to maintain.
Wish it were otherwise, but in my market, Apple mgmt is driving out lots of their retail staff and many of them have been replaced by somewhat lower cost staff, just another effect of the recession sadly. Apple Corporate would never admit to this and alot of this is dressed up to look like the manager of a particular store or group of stores. but... it isn't that. It is a deliberate campaign to lower Apple retail employee costs.
Combine that with the fact that Microsoft is launching their own major market store initiative... it is no small reason why so many Apple Store staff that are unhappy with the state of affairs at Apple Retail are willing to accept generous salary packages and jump ship to Microsoft. Yes... sorry mac folk, but its strange to say but Microsoft is becoming the easier and happier place by comparison for people to work at. Apple... is running the risk of becoming the old "evil" Microsoft.
Thanks for that piece of information. This is very sad to hear. Maybe some people should actually walk out of a few stores for some bells to be rung. It's a tough situation to handle what with apple growing so much and the recession, but surely there's a better way to do this that won't manage to hurt BOTH apple's serving us the public AND the workforce too. Because once something goes bad, well you just chuck it out of the window, and they shouldn't allow that to happen. Let's see.
Just curious...are you saying that every employee that's unhappy with how the management is run should walk out? Some people can't afford to just walk out of their job...
And I am unclear on the pointed remark you're trying to make with your last sentence.
You are right, I guess I didn't make myself very clear. I am agreeing with you about not being able to just walk out. Most of us have commitments that require a steady stream of money.
My other comment was directed at Ruel24 - they are called management because that is what THEY are paid to do - manage, and if they indeed do a good job, production (which is what the workers do) will be good.
Of course abusive management is always uncalled for.
Spoken like a true union man! Never mind the facts, never mind the economic realities; ALL managers are bad, ALL 'workers' are good. Black and White, Them and Us.
He's not wrong though in that there is a clear and powerful force pushing things that way. The issue is what to do to counterbalance this. And that of course is what many of you at the U.S. dread: governmental intervention. I don't blame you for dreading this, it's your upbringing, and it's also largely true that intervention can mess things up even worse. But it's also the lesser of two evils, and it's what actually salvaged the economies of the world from a complete melt down. Or so I understand with my rudimentary economics.
He's not wrong though in that there is a clear and powerful force pushing things that way...
Apart from he absolutely is wrong; unless you, or he, wants to back up his statement with some proof... which you can't, because he's wrong.
No, I'm not management. I work for a large construction company, and we have had two people protesting outside of our headquarters for approximately six months. They were never employees of ours; they are protesting because we hired non-union workers in a job down in Missouri. Now I personally have overseen the high wages and benefits the union workers receive. It is well above living wage.
For our non-union workers we're required to pay a comparable amount as union workers. So do they deserve the job less than the union workers?
Sorry for the rambling, my point is just because people are striking doesn't automatically make them right. (Again, I'm not saying this is\\isn't the case for these Apple workers. I just take protest\\strikes with a grain of salt.)
The pay requirement would not have existed in the first place had it not been through years of effort by, ahem, labor unions.
The measures taken by unions to ensure their self-preservation may seem off-putting, but it's beyond question that the fairness of the labor market is increased when workers act collectively.
The pay requirement would not have existed in the first place had it not been through years of effort by, ahem, labor unions.
The measures taken by unions to ensure their self-preservation may seem off-putting, but it's beyond question that the fairness of the labor market is increased when workers act collectively.
I completely agree. My point wasn't to harp on unions; I was just using the situation as an example.
OMG, I almost feel ashamed to be a member of an Apple-centric forum, knowing there're such obsessive people out there! Sure Apple make okay tech. stuff, but, remote control helicopter filming of their latest retail building site?!
Yeah, my thought exactly - totally ott - on every level. Still, don't feel ashamed, feel good. It justifies the fact that you are even here when you clearly should be working. I mean, reading about this makes me feel so fucking sane and grounded its not even funny. Mind you, if he makes a living from flying his radio controlled helicopter, who am I to judge.
Management getting bonuses for the normal employees hard work? Welcome to the real world
That's what I was thinking too. I worked for Gap, if we made our sales goal and our credit card goals, management got a bonus. We got nothing. I worked for both Borders and Barnes and Noble. Management definitely got a bonus at Borders cause I was a supervisor there and got it. and if I got it for that I know the higher ups did.
it is just part of retail.
NOW if the management of said store was openly giving hours according to an individuals performance and enforcing or not rules by that performance that is different. It is certainly not fair, but it might not be against the rules or if it is provable. Because there might not be a paper trail to back up, for example, that it is ignored when someone who gets 60-75% of those 3 items takes a 12-15 minute on the clock break (that is supposed to be 10 minutes) every freaking break, but someone who gets only 20% gets a tongue lashing for stepping off the floor to go to the bathroom and is watched like a hawk for their break time so they don't go out one second late.
PLEASE, don't be quick to judge or dismiss the working personel at the apple stores. Besides it being tasteless to do so, it's also harsh to not offer support to people who really need it in this day and age. And that is more often than not, not the management but the work force.
yes but by the flip, don't be so quick to judge the management when you lack all the details. this whole 'we are required to sell' thing is NOTHING new to any company. everyone has their thing. Gap has their credit cards, Barnes and Noble the reader card, Borders the same. Some Best Buy stores were accused of lying about stock status on high priced items because the customer didn't want to buy the extended warranty. and so on. so to say 'we are required to sell' is nada in terms of a good reason to complain or walk out.
there has to be something more to the game and we don't know what that is. until we do we can't really bash the management for being abusive. Being bitchy perhaps, but there's no law against being a bitch to your staff. Nor is HR going to care so long as that bitch isn't racist, sexist etc and gets sales results. it sucks but it is a fact of life when you work retail, assume your boss is going to be a bitch and deal.
No, I'm not management. I work for a large construction company, and we have had two people protesting outside of our headquarters for approximately six months. They were never employees of ours; they are protesting because we hired non-union workers in a job down in Missouri. Now I personally have overseen the high wages and benefits the union workers receive. It is well above living wage.
For our non-union workers we're required to pay a comparable amount as union workers. So do they deserve the job less than the union workers?
Maybe. Was the hiring of non- union workers in that circumstance within and handed according to the union rules and bylaws. if yes, then they have nothing. if not, then it's on the company.
Again a case of needing all the facts before one can have a truly valid opinion on the matter.
Actually Apple has over the last year been cutting back on the higher saleried store staff, instead choosing to have store mgmt be enabled to push staff's hard and lower expenses at same time.
how is that different than any other company, including perhaps even this new Microsoft. We don't know how much higher those higher wages are. We don't know that they won't be as nasty to their staff as Apple and every other retail company. We don't know that they won't have minimums, pay on sales etc.
Apple Corporate would never admit to this and alot of this is dressed up to look like the manager of a particular store or group of stores. but... it isn't that. It is a deliberate campaign to lower Apple retail employee costs.
again, how is this different than any other company. I know 2 supervisors and 2 managers at a single Borders store that were laid off because the company cut their positions across the board to save money. And yes at the same time they did send out a memo saying that stores could no longer hire in anyone at full time. all new hires would start at part time (which comes with a lower pay scale, lower max hours for the week and lower benefits). they also cut back the contributions to the full timers retirement, dropped back the employee discount program etc. All to save costs.
Combine that with the fact that Microsoft is launching their own major market store initiative... it is no small reason why so many Apple Store staff that are unhappy with the state of affairs at Apple Retail are willing to accept generous salary packages and jump ship to Microsoft.
again a case of not knowing all the facts. We don't know that Microsoft is going after and gotten active Apple employees. or if it is all ex employees that could be out of Apple for other reasons. We don't know what if any other companies were 'head hunted'. We don't know the salaries, the benefits. We can't say that their management is going to be angels. for all we know, the folks they 'stole' from Apple were total asswipes that Apple was happy to be done with because they had no cause legally to fire them. so now this gang of Apple folks that are jumping ship thinking they are getting away from the bitch they had to work for is going to get the bigger bitch that ran the store the next town over. oops.
The measures taken by unions to ensure their self-preservation may seem off-putting, but it's beyond question that the fairness of the labor market is increased when workers act collectively.
yes but again, many if not all unions do have rules about the 'legal' hiring of non union workers under particular conditions. I work in film and I know that SAG has rules about filming in Right to Work states where you can't force someone to join the union to work on a job. If the production does everything they can, and can back up the claim, to hire only union, then they aren't dinged for the nons they do hire for what should be technically a 'union' slot. however they do have to pay the same wages etc as a union would get. on the flip, there's no penalty payment and the person doesn't get a taft into the union.
if the union in the given example has such rules and they were followed then no one can speak against what happened. if they didn't follow the rules, they got what they deserved. we don't have the fact to know which side the coin is on in the case. just like we don't about this Apple thing. However I will say this. The fact that not all employees were going to walk makes it sound like the situation isn't as clear cut as it seems
Thanks for that piece of information. This is very sad to hear. Maybe some people should actually walk out of a few stores for some bells to be rung. It's a tough situation to handle what with apple growing so much and the recession, but surely there's a better way to do this that won't manage to hurt BOTH apple's serving us the public AND the workforce too. Because once something goes bad, well you just chuck it out of the window, and they shouldn't allow that to happen. Let's see.
Well, situation isn't completely dire at Apple Retail, alot of great people work there. who knows, maybe the problem is temporary. but there are issues and seems like alot of them are coming to the surface, especially now that Microsoft is heavily positioning to poach people from Apple's retail team. It looks like Msft has learned from Vista and is trying to change its ways and evangelize.
Apple ought to take a cure from this and get a bit more proprietary about its staff at all levels and do what it can to retain them and keep them happy, even if it means a cent or two less retail "profit" hell, Apple has billions of cash excess profits each quarter. hell, right now they have over $24 Billion in cash. so i don't think they need to worry about 20-50 million each year the extra staff "savings" they are trying to reap. it just isn't worth it.
Wow!
No we know where all our expensive Mobile Me money is going. The turn over over 100M in one year on Mobile Me, perhaps last year they made $38M profit and decided they wanted a new store.
Actually Apple has over the last year been cutting back on the higher saleried store staff, instead choosing to have store mgmt be enabled to push staff's hard and lower expenses at same time. .
Is this your OPINION or do you have hard verifiable data to back up this claim ... if so please post ... if not, ... stop spreading misinformation, it just cheapens these boards.
Yeah, my thought exactly - totally ott - on every level. Still, don't feel ashamed, feel good. It justifies the fact that you are even here when you clearly should be working. I mean, reading about this makes me feel so fucking sane and grounded its not even funny. Mind you, if he makes a living from flying his radio controlled helicopter, who am I to judge.
Shooting videos and still media from remote helicopters is done all the time in situations where a full size helicopter is not deemed as safe ... what's wrong with that? ... sounds like the right thing to do to me.
Shooting videos and still media from remote helicopters is done all the time in situations where a full size helicopter is not deemed as safe ... what's wrong with that? ... sounds like the right thing to do to me.
Hence the last sentence. Besides that you are either an übergeek or completely missing the point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhydyxRjujU
New store looks great.
PLEASE, don't be quick to judge or dismiss the working personel at the apple stores. Besides it being tasteless to do so, it's also harsh to not offer support to people who really need it in this day and age. And that is more often than not, not the management but the work force.
APPLE SHOULD LOOK IN ON THIS ISSUE AND SHOW CARE AND RESPECT FOR THE WORKFORCE, because that's where apple should and usually does stand. If there's a moron manager over there who is abusive they should be dealt with. If the concerns are not that serious they should nevertheless be adressed in an amicable way that shows decency and courtesy to the people at the stores that are the face of apple to the public. We are in harsh financial times and it's justified for some people to be experiencing the adverse effects of this climate. These people should be listened to and not alienated.
And like I said, please don't be broadly and crassly dismissive of the apple store stuff.
It's hard but once in a while we all can try putting ourselves in other peoples' shoes and walking the proverbial mile in them. Show some courtesy and some taste.
I dunno, but maybe this is just some new kind of generation gap issue... employees are expected to add value to the company they work for, not be coddled and treated like members of some kind of extended family. Employees and management should always be professional when they address each other, of course, but maybe the recognition of why they are there in the first place (to make money for Apple and provide customers with a positive perception of the company) needs to be spelled out.
I coming from Canada, a place where the right of association is a protected right, though also constantly under attack, it always makes my head spin and my stomach queazy when I see and or interact with American worker and their "rights". The whole issue in the US has taken a very Orwelian discourse. An example is the term "right to work states", a more fitting description would be the German "Arbeite Macht Frei" yes. A major problem with the workplace and the worlds economies as a whole, especially in the United States, is that Capitalism has been left to be what it must be, unbridled and ultimately monopolistic where only the bottom line matters and managers are not there to really manage but to apply dictates from right-wing economic gurus in " capitalist stink tanks". The proper actions always seem to be squeeze the workers, get rid of their advantages and rights and get rid of the workers as soon as possible to be replaced by cheaper workers, etc. etc. If you resist this your are infringing the laws that protect the shareholders. To hell with different styles of management, original, progressive, imaginative, all must comply, even if this is counter productive for the long term viability of an enterprise. Only short term goals matter. anyhow I will finnish by encouraging everyone to go see Michael Moores latest film "Capatalism:A love story" Comming out next month. He explains this much bettor than I ever can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhydyxRjujU
Personal politics mean nothing when it comes to running a business and making money. Either you sell something that people want, or you don't. That's it. When government steps in, it introduces something other than a system of exchange that arises when people and companies are allowed to deal with each other peacefully. Government enables price imbalances, unfair competitive advantages, employment imbalances, and the list goes on. Also, I understand Moore's "Capitalism" movie is his 'fairest' yet, as it attacks Republicans and Democrats equally which only makes sense given the level of hypocrisy pouring out of Washington that favors financial institutions and corporations these days.
Also, I understand Moore's "Capitalism" movie is his 'fairest' yet, as it attacks Republicans and Democrats equally which only makes sense given the level of hypocrisy pouring out of Washington that favors financial institutions and corporations these days.
I notice you said 'fairest' suggesting ambiguity. Because attacking both sides doesn't really make anything 'fair'. What's fair is to be critical, regardless. We know how hard that can be as it is far easier to be critical of something you intrinsically and philosophically dislike/ disagree with. And personally I think that is too tall an order for anybody. The worst is really one sided criticism purporting to be 'fair' (FOX news is an example). The Daily Show is also one sided but it doesn't present itself as 'balanced'. Anyway... back to the topic...
Actually Apple has over the last year been cutting back on the higher saleried store staff, instead choosing to have store mgmt be enabled to push staff's hard and lower expenses at same time. Sorry to say the old days of really knowledgable staff is gone, not to say alot of the people don't know what they are doing at the Apple Stores, but Apple is choosing a retail strategy that costs them less overhead to maintain.
Wish it were otherwise, but in my market, Apple mgmt is driving out lots of their retail staff and many of them have been replaced by somewhat lower cost staff, just another effect of the recession sadly. Apple Corporate would never admit to this and alot of this is dressed up to look like the manager of a particular store or group of stores. but... it isn't that. It is a deliberate campaign to lower Apple retail employee costs.
Combine that with the fact that Microsoft is launching their own major market store initiative... it is no small reason why so many Apple Store staff that are unhappy with the state of affairs at Apple Retail are willing to accept generous salary packages and jump ship to Microsoft. Yes... sorry mac folk, but its strange to say but Microsoft is becoming the easier and happier place by comparison for people to work at. Apple... is running the risk of becoming the old "evil" Microsoft. Really wish it were otherwise... but for the moment it appears to be a risk they are ok taking.
What? Microsoft is becoming the easier and happier place by comparison for people to work at?
For one, since we're talking about Apple stores here, and not other areas of each company, there aren't even any Microsoft stores open yet, let alone enough time to see if they are any better a place to work.
And Microsoft as done much the same thing in many places - firing people, moving out higher cost people, etc. to try and address the economic times we're in.
Most companies are doing it in one form other another - addressing the economic times.
Apple stores are doing fantastically because in many ways they are the face of Apple. IF your assertion is that MOST Apple stores are being changed to have lesser qualified people, then it is only due to the recession, and I doubt it will stay that way as we move out of it. The general feeling that I get is that the Apple experience was and continues to be one of if not the best experience for buying at retail stores.
Frankly, until I hear from a LOT of people who frequent the 250 stores that Apple has around the country, then I'll have some idea about whether you assertions are valid.
Have a nice day!
Greg
The person said that employees are upset, some have contacted human resources, and some have quit.
Hey Microsoft. Sounds like your kind of people. . .
I wonder who is responsible for those employees not meeting the targets set. Maybe the management. I guess it would be nice to show up and not have any goals to strive for. I suspect that reaching those goals would lead to reward for the employees as well as the managers.