I am amazed at the number of people who are convinced that Palm has a strategy. They did not do this for publicity. They are not buying time for an unfinished sync solution of their own. They actually thought they would get away with not having to write any software for any platform and Apple would not bother with blocking them. They thought they could apply enough pressure with the press to stay Apple's hand. They were, and are fools.
They would never have gone to the USB-IF if they did not fully expect to send Apple packing. There is no skunkworks sync project. Palm simply does not have the talent or the money to build a solution from scratch. They might have enough lawyers on retainer to make a run at it in court. I'm sure their legal team has already relocated to east Texas. If Palm had a plan B, it was that the community would write a sync app for them.
Palm probably had just enough money to produce the Pre. They were hoping to get as much free help as they could get. The Pre isn't selling well and they do not have the resources to divert from pushing the Pixie and trying to get noticed by other carriers. They are as they have been from the start: desperate. They don't have a plan. What you see is what there is. Mark my words, one way or another, this is going to court.
Why do you think Pre owners can't buy music and videos from iTunes?
I'm trying to think in terms of the simplest kinds of users and from a business standpoint. In my opinion (and I don't have the marketing data Apple has so I am probably wrong) I think they would sell more mp3's by allowing the Pre to sync. I don't think allowing the Pre to sync puts any kind of significant dent in iphone sales. Making it harder to sync might deter more people from using itunes than anything.
If I were Apple and I couldn't sell them on the iphone, the least I could do is make it as easy as possible for them to give me their money in itunes.
Again, I really don't see any wrong doing here on Apple's part, but my limited business logic tells me it's better the other way. ;P
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpymw
Yeah.
You and the other Pre owner can go in the corner and cry me a river.
AND STOP JERKING THOSE THINGS!
Riiight, I MUST be a pre owner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot
Yes. The Pre can sync using WMP.
You can also 'drag and drop'
And Palm is free to write software to access iTunes XML files.
.... why so many people believe that the the Pre "needs" iTunes so much, beats me.
No kidding. Maybe this block is a good thing as it will force the Pre owners to actually learn how to do some of the most simple tasks you can do on a computer.
It seems most of you are missing the point here. Apple would rather you sync your shiny brand new iPhone or iTouch with the media you buy. The margin on those two items is far greater than the media they sell. Plus, if you buy either, you're still going to have to buy your media through iTunes. That's Apple's win-win scenario. And that's Business! If you buy a Pre and sync it with itunes, they lose profit on the iPhone and the iTouch, and make a meager profit on the media. If you were running a business, would you want that?
Also, all it takes is to give one wannabe a nipple and all the rest will come running to suckle on Apple's tit; Nokia, HTC, Motorola; Blackberry. Apple makes a stand against Palm and the rest get the message.
"It just sucks that Apple feels the need to alienate pre owners . . . ."
Uh, perhaps it's just me, but why would Apple give a rat's ass what any Pre owner thinks? Didn't that person already "alienate" Apple by purchasing an iPhone competitor, a truly inferior one that does not possess a legitimate iTunes option? Do you REALLY believe that any company should go out of its way to "be nice" to a competitor by enabling its bottom line in this fashion? Such is not the way of the business world I live in. Is it in yours?
Maybe because Pre owner might also be iPod owner, or even (shock) Mac owner.
From my point of view, Palm comes out of this clean and makes Apple look evil. Palm boys can tell their iTunes users "Hey sorry, we tried our best to help you keep using iTunes but Apple doesn't care for you if you don't have everything Apple".
At the end of the day, it really isn't a problem to keep using iTunes to purchase music and sync Pre with WMP (which I prefer to iTunes anyway) or even simple drag'n'drop. I don't think to many people are purchasing music daily, and to run iTunes once a week or even a month, and do everything else from WMP is really not an issue; it is more of PR and marketing crap, but also a thing to annoy users and turn them away from Apple. For example, I might prefer to keep my iPod even if I have Pre, but since Apple is giving me this kind of attitude I would likely decide to get rid of iPod or replace it with non-Apple player, one that will work with same software my phone is working.
Bottom line, between phone/media player and media player only, phone has advantage for me.
Seems as if Apple should allow other devices to sync to iTunes. iTunes is what Mac users use to store our music. If we don't choose an iPod or iPhone as our portable and the player's vendor chooses to write software to sync to iTunes, seems that Apple should let them. I'm an Apple fan; but, it seems like Apple is not playing nice, here. Not good for Mac users.
I notice that they raised about $360 million today in a stock offering. That should last them
awhile, but I still think they would love to be acquired.
I hope it's a nice premium on top of the current price. Would be nice. I might sound like a traitor, but I do try not to confuse my investing decisions with my consumption decisions -- I had bought a bunch of PALM at $10! Thought it was a better bet than the Pre.
I'm trying to think in terms of the simplest kinds of users and from a business standpoint. In my opinion (and I don't have the marketing data Apple has so I am probably wrong) I think they would sell more mp3's by allowing the Pre to sync.
The Pre has an Amazon MP3 Store client on the phone.
hey i am laughing at this, it isn't like other devices can't be synced with iTunes, but PALM kinda screwed up in how they are doing it.
If Palm really wants Palm and PALM PRE syncing to itunes. they ought to cut a deal with MARKSPACE for a basic version of MISSING SYNC and do a deal. anything else is just bad pr and silly.
I have been using it for my blackberry and it works great!, dunno what all the silliness is about.
Is that working with iTunes the app or with the open media files and open XML file that iTunes uses for DB and info? There is a difference and the latter is already well utilized by many companies without interference by Apple.
Seems that the further into the water that Palm wades on this issue, the deeper it gets.
They already got reprimanded by the USB-IF, after they fully expected that their hack would get the organization's blessing. The bottomline is that if they want to sync with iTunes, they need to develop their software or driver.
It's not like Apple is denying the Pre access to the XML library files or to the music files themselves. Anyone can drag-and-drop or they can use a different third party application to sync the music files to the phone.
If Pre wants to make things easy for their customers, why not just license a third party media file application and provide it to their customers while they work on their own application? Digital camera makers typically supply a patchwork of their own applications and third party software for photo management and editing. I don't see why Palm has to sell their phones by piggybacking on top of Apple's work.
Unfortunately, that says more about you than either Apple or Palm.
An argument or two from you would be nice, but either way I don't see anything unfortunate there.
Don't forget this is not really about Palm, but about iPod/iTunes users who happen to prefer Pre to iPhone, or must stay with Sprint.
I don't expect Palm to really care - I can't see people buying Pre because of iTunes, especially since there are arguably better ways to sync PC with media player.
On the other hand, trying to help people always look good in PR terms.
If Pre wants to make things easy for their customers, why not just license a third party media file application and provide it to their customers while they work on their own application?
I'm convinced it is because they don't have the resources to do it. Look at the price of a Pre: the pre mail-in rebate price. You have to pay more up front that you do for an iPhone 3GS. I wonder how much they are making from people who don't redeem their rebate... but I digress. They can't raise the price of the Pre and they can't absorb the loss from paying some third party a licensing fee. They can't just roll their own because that requires talent and money and time. They don't have enough of either.
People are making the mistake of thinking the Pre is a real competitor to the iPhone. They are not even a real competitor to WM. They are doing the best they can and it is far from good enough.
If Pre wants to make things easy for their customers, why not just license a third party media file application and provide it to their customers while they work on their own application? Digital camera makers typically supply a patchwork of their own applications and third party software for photo management and editing. I don't see why Palm has to sell their phones by piggybacking on top of Apple's work.
I think the whole ?you can use iTunes to sync your Pre? was a clever marketing ploy to gain free advertising per the rampant media coverage. There are many apps for many phone and PMP vendors that sync with the iTunes XML DB files without fail, expect for when Apple does an occasional update that alters the XML structure to accommodate new iTunes version changes, but correcting for those changes are simple. I have no doubt that Palm knew they would loose out here as the USB-IF rules are quite clear, but anecdotally I know many BB users that didn?t know they could sync to iTunes DB files. I feel this has certainly helped get the Palm name out and assist with Pre sales.
Some old clichés that I feel back up my stance on Palm?s tactics...
? ?Any publicity is good publicity?
? "There's no such thing as bad publicity?
? "There is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is NOT being talked about.?
Comments
... or can you not use Windows Media Player to sync your music to it?
Yes. The Pre can sync using WMP.
You can also 'drag and drop'
And Palm is free to write software to access iTunes XML files.
.... why so many people believe that the the Pre "needs" iTunes so much, beats me.
They would never have gone to the USB-IF if they did not fully expect to send Apple packing. There is no skunkworks sync project. Palm simply does not have the talent or the money to build a solution from scratch. They might have enough lawyers on retainer to make a run at it in court. I'm sure their legal team has already relocated to east Texas. If Palm had a plan B, it was that the community would write a sync app for them.
Palm probably had just enough money to produce the Pre. They were hoping to get as much free help as they could get. The Pre isn't selling well and they do not have the resources to divert from pushing the Pixie and trying to get noticed by other carriers. They are as they have been from the start: desperate. They don't have a plan. What you see is what there is. Mark my words, one way or another, this is going to court.
Why do you think Pre owners can't buy music and videos from iTunes?
I'm trying to think in terms of the simplest kinds of users and from a business standpoint. In my opinion (and I don't have the marketing data Apple has so I am probably wrong) I think they would sell more mp3's by allowing the Pre to sync. I don't think allowing the Pre to sync puts any kind of significant dent in iphone sales. Making it harder to sync might deter more people from using itunes than anything.
If I were Apple and I couldn't sell them on the iphone, the least I could do is make it as easy as possible for them to give me their money in itunes.
Again, I really don't see any wrong doing here on Apple's part, but my limited business logic tells me it's better the other way. ;P
Yeah.
You and the other Pre owner can go in the corner and cry me a river.
AND STOP JERKING THOSE THINGS!
Riiight, I MUST be a pre owner.
Yes. The Pre can sync using WMP.
You can also 'drag and drop'
And Palm is free to write software to access iTunes XML files.
.... why so many people believe that the the Pre "needs" iTunes so much, beats me.
No kidding. Maybe this block is a good thing as it will force the Pre owners to actually learn how to do some of the most simple tasks you can do on a computer.
Man, you sure can't help but flap you mouth-piece here.
Well, I'm simply trying to convey a point as to why it might be beneficial to leave the compatibility in place.
I don't condone what Palm did in order to make it work btw
So, how soon before Palm folds or gets bought out? I'd guess they are on life support with about 6 months to live.
Kinda sad, because they did come out with some pretty sweet stuff back in the day.
I actually still own and use an old PalmOne Zire 31.
I'd hate to see them go - when there's healthy competition in the free market, the consumers win.
But at this point, it seems Palm isn't competing very well, so it may be a moot point.
Whatever happened to offering us, the users, a way to flag this trash and get these guys knocked off the boards quicker?
Don't you get that little red exclamation point to report spam and abuse and the like? It is on the bottom left near the online/offline indicator...
Also, all it takes is to give one wannabe a nipple and all the rest will come running to suckle on Apple's tit; Nokia, HTC, Motorola; Blackberry. Apple makes a stand against Palm and the rest get the message.
@ chronster
"It just sucks that Apple feels the need to alienate pre owners . . . ."
Uh, perhaps it's just me, but why would Apple give a rat's ass what any Pre owner thinks? Didn't that person already "alienate" Apple by purchasing an iPhone competitor, a truly inferior one that does not possess a legitimate iTunes option? Do you REALLY believe that any company should go out of its way to "be nice" to a competitor by enabling its bottom line in this fashion? Such is not the way of the business world I live in. Is it in yours?
Maybe because Pre owner might also be iPod owner, or even (shock) Mac owner.
From my point of view, Palm comes out of this clean and makes Apple look evil. Palm boys can tell their iTunes users "Hey sorry, we tried our best to help you keep using iTunes but Apple doesn't care for you if you don't have everything Apple".
At the end of the day, it really isn't a problem to keep using iTunes to purchase music and sync Pre with WMP (which I prefer to iTunes anyway) or even simple drag'n'drop. I don't think to many people are purchasing music daily, and to run iTunes once a week or even a month, and do everything else from WMP is really not an issue; it is more of PR and marketing crap, but also a thing to annoy users and turn them away from Apple. For example, I might prefer to keep my iPod even if I have Pre, but since Apple is giving me this kind of attitude I would likely decide to get rid of iPod or replace it with non-Apple player, one that will work with same software my phone is working.
Bottom line, between phone/media player and media player only, phone has advantage for me.
So, how soon before Palm folds or gets bought out? I'd guess they are on life support with about 6 months to live.
I notice that they raised about $360 million today in a stock offering. That should last them
awhile, but I still think they would love to be acquired.
I notice that they raised about $360 million today in a stock offering. That should last them
awhile, but I still think they would love to be acquired.
I hope it's a nice premium on top of the current price. Would be nice. I might sound like a traitor, but I do try not to confuse my investing decisions with my consumption decisions -- I had bought a bunch of PALM at $10! Thought it was a better bet than the Pre.
I'm trying to think in terms of the simplest kinds of users and from a business standpoint. In my opinion (and I don't have the marketing data Apple has so I am probably wrong) I think they would sell more mp3's by allowing the Pre to sync.
The Pre has an Amazon MP3 Store client on the phone.
From my point of view, Palm comes out of this clean and makes Apple look evil.
Unfortunately, that says more about you than either Apple or Palm.
hey i am laughing at this, it isn't like other devices can't be synced with iTunes, but PALM kinda screwed up in how they are doing it.
If Palm really wants Palm and PALM PRE syncing to itunes. they ought to cut a deal with MARKSPACE for a basic version of MISSING SYNC and do a deal. anything else is just bad pr and silly.
I have been using it for my blackberry and it works great!, dunno what all the silliness is about.
http://www.markspace.com/products/pr...-overview.html
Is that working with iTunes the app or with the open media files and open XML file that iTunes uses for DB and info? There is a difference and the latter is already well utilized by many companies without interference by Apple.
They already got reprimanded by the USB-IF, after they fully expected that their hack would get the organization's blessing. The bottomline is that if they want to sync with iTunes, they need to develop their software or driver.
It's not like Apple is denying the Pre access to the XML library files or to the music files themselves. Anyone can drag-and-drop or they can use a different third party application to sync the music files to the phone.
If Pre wants to make things easy for their customers, why not just license a third party media file application and provide it to their customers while they work on their own application? Digital camera makers typically supply a patchwork of their own applications and third party software for photo management and editing. I don't see why Palm has to sell their phones by piggybacking on top of Apple's work.
Unfortunately, that says more about you than either Apple or Palm.
An argument or two from you would be nice, but either way I don't see anything unfortunate there.
Don't forget this is not really about Palm, but about iPod/iTunes users who happen to prefer Pre to iPhone, or must stay with Sprint.
I don't expect Palm to really care - I can't see people buying Pre because of iTunes, especially since there are arguably better ways to sync PC with media player.
On the other hand, trying to help people always look good in PR terms.
If Pre wants to make things easy for their customers, why not just license a third party media file application and provide it to their customers while they work on their own application?
I'm convinced it is because they don't have the resources to do it. Look at the price of a Pre: the pre mail-in rebate price. You have to pay more up front that you do for an iPhone 3GS. I wonder how much they are making from people who don't redeem their rebate... but I digress. They can't raise the price of the Pre and they can't absorb the loss from paying some third party a licensing fee. They can't just roll their own because that requires talent and money and time. They don't have enough of either.
People are making the mistake of thinking the Pre is a real competitor to the iPhone. They are not even a real competitor to WM. They are doing the best they can and it is far from good enough.
On the other hand, trying to help people always look good in PR terms.
If you really think Palm is trying to help people and that these maneuvers are making them look good, you need to put the pipe down.
If Pre wants to make things easy for their customers, why not just license a third party media file application and provide it to their customers while they work on their own application? Digital camera makers typically supply a patchwork of their own applications and third party software for photo management and editing. I don't see why Palm has to sell their phones by piggybacking on top of Apple's work.
I think the whole ?you can use iTunes to sync your Pre? was a clever marketing ploy to gain free advertising per the rampant media coverage. There are many apps for many phone and PMP vendors that sync with the iTunes XML DB files without fail, expect for when Apple does an occasional update that alters the XML structure to accommodate new iTunes version changes, but correcting for those changes are simple. I have no doubt that Palm knew they would loose out here as the USB-IF rules are quite clear, but anecdotally I know many BB users that didn?t know they could sync to iTunes DB files. I feel this has certainly helped get the Palm name out and assist with Pre sales.
Some old clichés that I feel back up my stance on Palm?s tactics...
? ?Any publicity is good publicity?
? "There's no such thing as bad publicity?
? "There is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is NOT being talked about.?