Steve Ballmer: Safari a 'rounding error,' Mac losing market share

15681011

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    May Apple enable flash on iPhone's Safari so I can actually use it consistently.



    No thanks. You should write to all websites you use that require flash and tell them that there are about 50 million people using mobile safari alone that can't properly access their page (like the majority of mobile browsers). Then tell them that the most popular websites in the world have either eliminated flash entirely - opting for open and more efficient web standards instead - or at least provided suitable flash alternatives that do not sacrifice user experience.



    Flash is on the way out, and considering it's owners never bothered to develop for the future (mobile browsing), I don't care if the door hits them in the ass. Cheers!
  • Reply 142 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Although you say you do not agree, I cannot find any point on which we are not in total agreement. If you mean the bit that I don't see much difference in the 3 platforms and you do, let me try to be more specific by offering an example: BMW, Chevy, Toyota. Very similar. Bentley, KIA, Kenworth. Very different. I think it is simply a matter of degrees, but I would argue that the former is a more accurate comparison than the later in the OS situation.



    Except for your point that they are pretty much the same. Of course, I don't think BMW, Chevy & Toyota are very similar either. But, I think a more apt car analogy would be Volvo (Linux), Lexus (Mac), Ford (Windows).



    Quote:

    No you didn't forget to mention stability.



    Well, not Mac vs. Windows, originally. But, yeah, Windows pretty much loses out on the stability issue against all comers.
  • Reply 143 of 219
    I consider myself to be a fair person. Mac has it''s place, so does Windows. But the more this guy talks, the more I want to remove Office from my Mac and use iWork exclusively. He literally reminds me of an insecure punk I use to know in school.
  • Reply 144 of 219
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by clickmyface View Post


    Then tell them that the most popular websites in the world have either eliminated flash entirely - opting for open and more efficient web standards instead - or at least provided suitable flash alternatives that do not sacrifice user experience.



    ...alternatives that do not sacrifice user experience [on an underpowered mobile device]



    There is simply no real substitute for the elegant animation quality of Flash. In the case that a Flash designer was interested primarily in the presentation of a beautifully animated art piece instead of just placing static blocks of information on a page, any alternative provided will sacrifice user experience.
  • Reply 145 of 219
    Amazing this guy is the CEO of a major corporation. Goes to show you - in America, anyone can be a leader.
  • Reply 146 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    May Apple enable flash on iPhone's Safari so I can actually use it consistently.



    Maybe if Adobe did something about the ridiculous load Flash puts on the processor it might make more sense to enable it on mobile (battery powered) devices. I don't even like running into it on my MacbookPro. It hogs the processor (easily checked by running "Activity Monitor") and causes the damn fans to be turned on to keep things from melting. Maybe Flash is fine for desktop platforms but with mobile in the process of displacing desktop we need better battery technology or standards that aren't spendthrifts with our limited batteries.
  • Reply 147 of 219
    Ballmer = Fat, Stupid, Clueless, Gasbag.



    Who cares what this guy says?
  • Reply 148 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbonner View Post


    Really looking for an answer, why does having the most popular browser matter? They are free and you can't really embed any advertising, that is done by the content provider, so why is this important?



    Maybe an indication of computer usage?



    What does it matter? What does it matter??

    Until recently, MS has practically held the whole web hostage. MS software-produced websites are quite proprietary and lack a lot of support for open standards. This wasn't an accident. Viewing certain websites took (still take) IE so that you can get all that ActiveX, etc. crap to work properly).



    MS also takes over projects and then re-releases them in a corrupted form, so that users have to comply with its proprietary standards (like what they did to Java). There's also SilverLight, their proprietary effort to replace Flash with a ubiquitous media wrapper. They hardly support PDFs and especially PNGs.



    Servers running Windows are also a bunch of crap. I would never put a website on a Windows Server. Use Linux, and Apache and MySQL any day.



    Most still think that a good website is one that works well in IE. When the actual truth is quite the opposite. Developers have to pull their hair out and write extra code for elements to have any kind of decent deprecation into something that works OK with the idiosyncrasies of IE without breaking their sites. It's the bane of creating a website. Developers have to dumb down what they are doing and can't rely on writing good, clean code.



    Most developers I know of have said they are not supporting IE 6 from January 2010 on. But for some reason, millions of people still use this cludgy old piece of junk, and MS does not seem to encourage or help its users to upgrade.



    MS has been dragged kicking and screaming toward supporting international web standards. They are still behind with IE8 let alone IE7.



    MS is holding up the development and interoperability of the web, full stop.
  • Reply 149 of 219
    Ballmer has got to be the most idiotic person in computing today. "Rounding error", yea right, it's so shocking that Apple and it's operating system Mac OS X, has gained more ground than Microsoft's virus ridden software. And the statement about the economy. ANYONE on the face of the planet will spend less over-all on a Mac than ANY windows driven PC. There's no taking it to the geek squad or whatever they are called. You buy a Mac that is built by unbelievably stringent standards, runs off the single most stable operating system and you just do your thing with it. No taking it in cause it got a virus, or a broken hard drive, that because PC's are built by like 30 different companies instead of the Mac which is designed in CA. and put together with parts from a very small number of different companies and only after Apple has stringently approved ahead of time.





    Microsoft? They will put their OS in ANY old piece of junk laptop of desktop. Apple by far will cost you less in the long run.. Just ask the people like me that has a 10 year old eMac that runs as if right out of the box new. ( I use the new iMac, but only because I love the way the new intel based and recently redesigned computers are the bomb.)



    The bottom line? Microsoft is garbage and the sweaty, bald, freak Ballmer is just doesn't even understand how people spend their money and yes even in this economy Macs are taking market share away from PC's because people are spending their money more carefully. And the last thing people want to do is buy a computer you need to yearly buy virus software and just plain have to replace a frozen blue screened HP, or whatever POS Windows machine you've bought. People are smarter than you think Ballmer. Macs last longer, run better, and just plain make more sense now than ever!!!
  • Reply 150 of 219
    All the more reason to break up the horrendous Microsoft monopoly than ever then - DOJO better act quickly because according to Ballmer in 5 years MS will have ALL the worlds computer market share.
  • Reply 151 of 219
    Ballmer forgets Steve Jobs statement during Macworld 97, saying for Apple to win, didn't mean MS had to lose.



    No matter what, I consider Apple a big winner. Just 13 years ago, it was in a state of disarray whilst MS was the defacto PC system (Win95 a huge success). Yes, Apple had some die hard fans but was in dire trouble. In just 13 years, it has not only turned things around, but entered (created!?!) new markets, re-inventing itself and it's key products (a new Mac, is the same as an old Mac, but different [Different processor architecture, different OS architecture, but still the same UI, but tweaked]).



    During the same 13 years, MS has lost it's way. Windows ME disaster number one, moving towards Vista, major disaster number 2, etc. Google having online applications that can edit MS Office documents, not achieving it's online goals.



    More worryingly, is if you look at their finances, you see that things were on the up whilst Gates was in control, now with Ballmer, there are downward trends. I don't think it will be long before investers call for a new head of MS.



    MS now needs to re-invent itself, just like Apple did 13 years ago. It needs to look at it's products, kill off those with limited futures and develop some truely innovative products. If it could deliver something like Courier, then it may just achieve what Apple has now done.



    Ballmer may be able to BS like no other, but he is not the right person to lead the company through re-invention.
  • Reply 152 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post


    I think the point is you can pick up a PC for 500 dollars and it comes with the OS already installed... unless you are upgrading an old PC their isn't any extra cost to getting Windows 7. Sure that 500.00 PC is no where near what you get with your 1199 iMac but that's not the point... it's a numbers game and Joe blow with 500.00 to spend can't afford the difference regardless of the experience he will have with said products.



    80's BIOS vs. up to date EFI

    Celeron's and Pentiums vs. C2D and i7

    cheapest keyboard vs. Nice metal keyboard

    talk to india vs. talk directly to a person

    windows vs. OSX

    bendable plastic shell vs. one piece of aluminum

    useless OEM crap vs. iLife

    good integration vs. best integration

    opens apps in a few seconds vs. opens apps instantly

    wannabe desktop compositing vs. we got it right

    copy cat dock vs. we came up with the dock

    pass the buck around vs. well, less passing the buck around

    winrot vs. still going strong after years of use

    how the hell did I get infected when I did nothing vs. no stupid avenues for virus infections



    Macs aren't perfect either, and when PC OEMs make a computer on par with a Mac, they end up costing the same. Look at how much more Dell charges for US based support that in their own words, bypasses obvious troubleshooting steps.



    Ballmer is so dumb. He brags about netbooks selling all the while knowing that he is making less money selling XP on them and Win7 will not help that either, because he will sell a cut version of it. Kinda hard to hide the OEM Windows Tax when netbooks cost around $350, isn't Ballmer.



    OEMs don't make much off of netbooks either, nor do they make much of anything on $399 laptops. You and your OEMs can have your bottom feeder market Ballmer.
  • Reply 153 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 2stepbay View Post


    Amazing this guy is the CEO of a major corporation. Goes to show you - in America, anyone can be a leader.



    My goodness you hit the nail on the head. This sweaty, disgusting man has no sense about business and that even though the economy is bad people are going to buy a computer that will not break down in 6 months and get viruses you have to have nerds replace HD's for. People will always buy the best made product, bang for your buck no matter the economic situation. But I think Ballmer missed that post-it, Gates left on his iMac's screen, when Gates retired. Oh yea, I bet you there's more Macs being used now in even the MS offices. Hey people aren't dumb, they know what going on with the crap MS puts out.
  • Reply 154 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbonner View Post


    Really looking for an answer, why does having the most popular browser matter? They are free and you can't really embed any advertising, that is done by the content provider, so why is this important?



    Maybe an indication of computer usage?



    You don't think your visits are tracked?
  • Reply 155 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post


    80's BIOS vs. up to date EFI

    Celeron's and Pentiums vs. C2D and i7

    cheapest keyboard vs. Nice metal keyboard

    talk to india vs. talk directly to a person

    windows vs. OSX

    bendable plastic shell vs. one piece of aluminum

    useless OEM crap vs. iLife

    good integration vs. best integration

    opens apps in a few seconds vs. opens apps instantly

    wannabe desktop compositing vs. we got it right

    copy cat dock vs. we came up with the dock

    pass the buck around vs. well, less passing the buck around

    winrot vs. still going strong after years of use

    how the hell did I get infected when I did nothing vs. no stupid avenues for virus infections



    Macs aren't perfect either, and when PC OEMs make a computer on par with a Mac, they end up costing the same. Look at how much more Dell charges for US based support that in their own words, bypasses obvious troubleshooting steps.



    Ballmer is so dumb. He brags about netbooks selling all the while knowing that he is making less money selling XP on them and Win7 will not help that either, because he will sell a cut version of it. Kinda hard to hide the OEM Windows Tax when netbooks cost around $350, isn't Ballmer.



    OEMs don't make much off of netbooks either, nor do they make much of anything on $399 laptops. You and your OEMs can have your bottom feeder market Ballmer.



    Nice rant... People in India are people too though. However the People Mac users speak to aren't reading out of the same manual or Help file you just read hours ago. They are actually thinking.
  • Reply 156 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    ...alternatives that do not sacrifice user experience [on an underpowered mobile device]



    There is simply no real substitute for the elegant animation quality of Flash. In the case that a Flash designer was interested primarily in the presentation of a beautifully animated art piece instead of just placing static blocks of information on a page, any alternative provided will sacrifice user experience.



    Really? Most of the "elegant" animation I see on the web reminds me of the mind-numbingly stupid animation you see on local TV newscasts and commercials. Text that expands slightly, moves across the screen, etc. Unfortunately it is often written by people who seem to be less than impressive in their grasp of subjects I know well, which undermines my faith in the presence of actual intelligence. Don't misunderstand, I enjoy good animation but I don't equate it with user experience.
  • Reply 157 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by womble2k2 View Post


    Ballmer forgets Steve Jobs statement during Macworld 97, saying for Apple to win, didn't mean MS had to lose.



    No matter what, I consider Apple a big winner. Just 13 years ago, it was in a state of disarray whilst MS was the defacto PC system (Win95 a huge success). Yes, Apple had some die hard fans but was in dire trouble. In just 13 years, it has not only turned things around, but entered (created!?!) new markets, re-inventing itself and it's key products (a new Mac, is the same as an old Mac, but different [Different processor architecture, different OS architecture, but still the same UI, but tweaked]).



    During the same 13 years, MS has lost it's way. Windows ME disaster number one, moving towards Vista, major disaster number 2, etc. Google having online applications that can edit MS Office documents, not achieving it's online goals.



    More worryingly, is if you look at their finances, you see that things were on the up whilst Gates was in control, now with Ballmer, there are downward trends. I don't think it will be long before investers call for a new head of MS.



    MS now needs to re-invent itself, just like Apple did 13 years ago. It needs to look at it's products, kill off those with limited futures and develop some truely innovative products. If it could deliver something like Courier, then it may just achieve what Apple has now done.



    Ballmer may be able to BS like no other, but he is not the right person to lead the company through re-invention.



    By investors do you mean the 57% of investors that are MS Employee's?
  • Reply 158 of 219
    Expecting to hear anything close to the truth out of that idiot Ballmer is like expecting anything close to the truth out of our idiot president Obama, the liberal democrats, and the rinos. They're all a bunch of rampant, lying jerks that need to be given a pink slip.



    Scratch part of that.... Ballmer should keep his job. He's oddly entertaining to us Mac fanatics and is doing such a crappy job at MS that it only helps our cause to see more Macs in every office, home and school. I vow to never own another MS OS.
  • Reply 159 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zindako View Post


    Maybe because he is Caucasian?



    Uh-oh a troll here?! On a Apple-centric website?



    /yawn
  • Reply 160 of 219
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sdbryan View Post


    Really? Most of the "elegant" animation I see on the web reminds me of the mind-numbingly stupid animation you see on local TV newscasts and commercials. Text that expands slightly, moves across the screen, etc. Unfortunately it is often written by people who seem to be less than impressive in their grasp of subjects I know well, which undermines my faith in the presence of actual intelligence. Don't misunderstand, I enjoy good animation but I don't equate it with user experience.



    In code it also sucks when the animation soaks up a good bit of resources because you are drawing on more libraries and render engines. Thus requiring higher capacity systems. Apple does this really well (Objective Programming) which MS can't seem to come close to imitating. A g3 350 can do the genie effect rather well (considering it's 8mb video card at 50mhz) compared to today's modern netbooks which their 64mb 166mhz video cards.



    Maybe it's because they have 100 different UI developers with 100 different ideas of doing things and just need to pick one animation model and stay that course for more than one iteration of an OS.



    And please MS stop changing the UI for us in IT! I don't need to go read a book on where the hell you put things every 2 years with Apple. You want us off the CMD? Stop moving things around.
Sign In or Register to comment.