Oh yeah, and that circular mouse for from hell, where you couldn't tell if you had its front or its back...... or its side.
I liked the puck, actually. It was just so weird it was fun. Back then remember all (okay, most) mice were pretty much the ugly beige thing with big "click clack" sounds when clicking it and not that ergonomic.
I have a friend who swears by his track ball but he can't cut a Photoshop path or draw in illustrator worth a crap with that thing. It might be ok for browsing or desktop activity but for precision like what is needed in photo retouching, I don't think it is the best choice of input device.
Why not? You can certainly create precise paths in PS and AI with a trackball. I use a trackball primarily and I work in both of those programs daily. For painting I use a tablet, but I can easily handle bezier tools with a trackball.
Oh please Ireland. There are plenty of people who like this, including people here. Don't make it out as though you're the arbiter of what's good and bad.
It would seem with your assessment of the Might Mouse, in this case I am. You fail to see the design as a shambles that's a ticking time-bomb for when it stops being usable. A real mouse, i.e. a decent mouse can go for years without any mechanical cleaning. You honestly accept that it has to be cleaner once every two weeks? That's funny. And like others have said here, the ball isn't the only issue, the side buttons and the right click method were awfully conceived. Apple doesn't quite get mice, people know this.
But there's always potential for salvation, just look at their new keyboards - they are excellent. Here's to cautiously hoping they have listened to "ALL" the complaints.
At lease it was color coordinated to the iMac unlike the MealyMouse.
Somewhere, I have a yo-yo in the design of the yo-yo mouse. Can't remember where I got it, but it's still mint in box, unopened. Wonder if it's worth anything?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense
I seriously don't buy this ... another keyboard and mouse ?! come on ...
Apple presented a fake mobile phone even to its employees before releasing the iphone (i think i've read that on a blog, unreliable source of course)
I very much doubt Apple would submit a fake keyboard and mouse to the FCC.
This redesigned/resized keyboard-stuff is not legit. The size-numbers are from the white plastic plate that goes on the back on the current wireless keyboard. The numbers are identical. And since the mouse-image is also just of a label, we shouldn't expect anything big on the outside
The mice with the MS-style scroll wheel is commonly referred to as the "clit mouse." It was a female coworker who pointed that out to me.
I tend to like Apple mice (including the MM which is excellent when the ball is working, and even the hockey puck mouse). I think it's because I hold the mouse like Steve thinks we should. I just noticed this today while reading this thread. I hold and move my mouse with thumb and pinky and don't move my wrist at all.
This redesigned/resized keyboard-stuff is not legit. The size-numbers are from the white plastic plate that goes on the back on the current wireless keyboard. The numbers are identical. ...
Hi Mel no trackballs just scrollwheels on at least 3 Logitech mice I've been using (G3, traveller, something else - usb wireless one) and no cleaning necessary for the past few years. Of course, there are differences between trackballs and scrollwheels.
Er, those are mice, not trackballs, remember? I've seen some of the ridiculous two wheel mice for horiz and vert scrolling that have come out over the years. A terrible solution. I know several people who bought them, and got rid of them just as quickly.
This ball has been the best solution, though poorly implemented.
If Apple could find a GOOD touch solution, that would be much better of course. No argument there.
And it would need to allow scrolling in any direction, just like the ball. It would need to respond to acceleration, just like the ball.
I just don't know how they are going to solve the problem of Touch. When we just barely touch our iPhone/Touch screens, the contact is made. How sensitive will this be? With a resistance based device, you can rest your finger on it and it won't respond. But with touch, the mere fact that it doesn't require any pressure means that you can't rest your finger on it. How easy is that?
How are they going to solve this? If you need to exert pressure, it will be difficult to do, and will get tiring, even if the pressure is small.
It would seem with your assessment of the Might Mouse, in this case I am. You fail to see the design as a shambles that's a ticking time-bomb for when it stops being usable. A real mouse, i.e. a decent mouse can go for years without any mechanical cleaning. You honestly accept that it has to be cleaner once every two weeks? That's funny. And like others have said here, the ball isn't the only issue, the side buttons and the right click method were awfully conceived. Apple doesn't quite get mice, people know this.
But there's always potential for salvation, just look at their new keyboards - they are excellent. Here's to cautiously hoping they have listened to "ALL" the complaints.
I'm not talking about any other parts of the mouse other than the ball. I agree that the buttons can be too hard to press at times, though my daughter likes the mouse.
And no, I don't think it's such a big deal to clean it once and a while so that a good feature can be used. Are you saying that the millions of people who prefer trackballs, all of which must be cleaned from once a week to once a month, shouldn't be using them because of that? People would laugh at that assertion.
If you read most of the comments here about the cleaning, and the many threads about the mouse that were around since it first came out, you would see that the vast majority of people who complain about the dirty ball that stops functioning after a few months, are not stating that the ball is a bad idea, but that they can't get inside to clean it.
Most people don't mind the idea of cleaning it. Its the fact that it's so difficult, or almost impossible to do.
The only reason why mice moved to using light instead of the ball was because it could be done on a flat surface. and even that doesn't work all the time on some surfaces. The ball actually worked on more surfaces than the light.
If Apple can replace the ball with a non moving method that works well, then I'm all for it.
My post above discusses problems that we may see with that.
Are you saying that the millions of people who prefer trackballs, all of which must be cleaned from once a week to once a month, shouldn't be using them because of that? People would laugh at that assertion.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Proper mice don't need mechanical cleaning to "just work". "It just works - after you've done a good cleaning." We're computer users, not friggin' cleaners. But I guess you've proven now why Apple gets away with putting out crap mice, people will make excuses for them. In the meantime the sensible people will go buy a real mouse.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Proper mice don't need mechanical cleaning to "just work". "It just works - after you've done a good cleaning." We're computer users, not friggin' cleaners. But I guess you've proven now why Apple gets away with putting out crap mice, people will make excuses for them. In the meantime the sensible people will go buy a real mouse.
Well, this would be nice if it was a drawing of the back of the new keyboard, but it's only a drawing of the piece of plastic that covers the backside. The piece of plastic on the back on the Apple wireless keyboard I'm writing on now also have the dimensions of 108x276mm. It's just a drawing of a "label" not the whole keyboard.
Sorry to barge in on your argument, but which part of his message was out of touch?
I believe Ireland was trying to state that the MM is not a good mouse, because of the ball cleaning issues and difficulties with using the "squeeze"-buttons and buttons in general too often lead into the undesired buttonpresses instead of the desired one and is that out of touch with reality or what he was thinking that you're trying to say?
On the forum however people immediately say "no, it's excellent". Fine, they're opinions, but Ireland's (and one of the other critics was immediately labeled as a troll when he stated that Apples keyboards are not all that good) opinions about the mouse are not "kosher"? Just a question: When is a mouse just bad and when is it still a good mouse with good ideas, but with one bad implementation (the ball)?
My personal opinion is, that all Apple products look good, many of them have very good usability (OSX, iPod, iPhone to name a few), but there are lemons as well and mice is the one place where Microsoft and Logitech far exceed usability and comfort over Apple. I would have said so for the keyboards as well some time back, but the current "chiclit" keyboards are good enough to not warrant a "bad". Still the keyboard on Lenovo laptops for example is significantly better for daily work use. But again that's a personal opinion.
Now if we put discussion back on topic, I personally do wish that Apple comes out with some true usability improvements (preferably a never before seen approach to really make it "the best") on the mouse and why not on the keyboard side as well, that would make life that little bit more interesting. But hopefully not a touchscreen keyboard. Please not that.
The new Mighty Mouse sounds like a great step forward. I love my current Mighty Mouse and have never had any of the problems that have caused others to hate it so much.
Agreed.
I have wired and now use a wireless. I love them both.
Sorry to barge in on your argument, but which part of his message was out of touch?
I believe Ireland was trying to state that the MM is not a good mouse, because of the ball cleaning issues and difficulties with using the "squeeze"-buttons and buttons in general too often lead into the undesired buttonpresses instead of the desired one and is that out of touch with reality or what he was thinking that you're trying to say?
On the forum however people immediately say "no, it's excellent". Fine, they're opinions, but Ireland's (and one of the other critics was immediately labeled as a troll when he stated that Apples keyboards are not all that good) opinions about the mouse are not "kosher"? Just a question: When is a mouse just bad and when is it still a good mouse with good ideas, but with one bad implementation (the ball)?
My personal opinion is, that all Apple products look good, many of them have very good usability (OSX, iPod, iPhone to name a few), but there are lemons as well and mice is the one place where Microsoft and Logitech far exceed usability and comfort over Apple. I would have said so for the keyboards as well some time back, but the current "chiclit" keyboards are good enough to not warrant a "bad". Still the keyboard on Lenovo laptops for example is significantly better for daily work use. But again that's a personal opinion.
Now if we put discussion back on topic, I personally do wish that Apple comes out with some true usability improvements (preferably a never before seen approach to really make it "the best") on the mouse and why not on the keyboard side as well, that would make life that little bit more interesting. But hopefully not a touchscreen keyboard. Please not that.
Regs, Jarkko
Thanks for the perspective. Though I would like to say I love the keyboards Apple makes now. I think they are awesome. Perfect for me.
But like you're getting at, the MM is a terrible mouse/product. Unwanted stepson. Lemon. Mistake. Brain-fart.
---
I'd like to also add what I said a few weeks ago. The only healthy relationship you could have with Apple is a love-hate one. Only hate or only love would be a lie.
You fail to see the design as a shambles that's a ticking time-bomb for when it stops being usable. A real mouse, i.e. a decent mouse can go for years without any mechanical cleaning.
I've been using computers with a UI mouse since 1984, almost daily, typically for many hours a day. I've used Logitech, Microsoft, Apple, and a half-dozen other brands that no longer exist, in office and home environments. 1-button, two-button, 3 button, & more. Ones that were fully programmable and ones with merely customizable buttons. I've also used track-pads, graphics tablets and track balls. Before mice, I used joy disks built into keyboards to move the cursor on Tektronix CAD systems. Every single one of them failed at one point or another, none ever lasted years without maintenance if you use a mouse heavily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
You honestly accept that it has to be cleaner(sic) once every two weeks?
I use a wired and a wireless MM as my primary input tools, doing delicate Photoshop image retouching for hours every day. In the last two years, I've cleaned them twice each, and that includes working for a year-long stint in a limestone cave that had a high incidence of moist, granular dust. I'll take a wireless MM to the trackpad on my MBP for precision work any day. I absolutely love the roller ball for horizontal scrolling - it's a perfectly intuitive human interface action that indicates to me that Apple "gets the mouse" more than you realize. The MM is twice the input device provided with every Dell, HP or other general market brand of PC I've ever purchased or been issues for work. Heck, some companies are still bundling crappy PS2 peripherals.
Feel free to hate whatever device doesn't suit your methods, but consider that because someone might like putting neon lights in the fenders of a car doesn't make it what everyone else wants. You certainly don't speak for me, and since I've purchased, deployed, and supported hundreds of Macs over a twenty-five year business span, I dare say Apple might want to take my opinion to heart just as much as yours.
If the Mighty Mouse doesn't suit you, buy whatever does. Or you could try washing your hands more often if reading other people's opinions regularly get you all worked up in a sweat.
Comments
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Oh yeah, and that circular mouse for from hell, where you couldn't tell if you had its front or its back...... or its side.
I liked the puck, actually. It was just so weird it was fun. Back then remember all (okay, most) mice were pretty much the ugly beige thing with big "click clack" sounds when clicking it and not that ergonomic.
I have a friend who swears by his track ball but he can't cut a Photoshop path or draw in illustrator worth a crap with that thing. It might be ok for browsing or desktop activity but for precision like what is needed in photo retouching, I don't think it is the best choice of input device.
Why not? You can certainly create precise paths in PS and AI with a trackball. I use a trackball primarily and I work in both of those programs daily. For painting I use a tablet, but I can easily handle bezier tools with a trackball.
Oh please Ireland. There are plenty of people who like this, including people here. Don't make it out as though you're the arbiter of what's good and bad.
It would seem with your assessment of the Might Mouse, in this case I am. You fail to see the design as a shambles that's a ticking time-bomb for when it stops being usable. A real mouse, i.e. a decent mouse can go for years without any mechanical cleaning. You honestly accept that it has to be cleaner once every two weeks? That's funny. And like others have said here, the ball isn't the only issue, the side buttons and the right click method were awfully conceived. Apple doesn't quite get mice, people know this.
But there's always potential for salvation, just look at their new keyboards - they are excellent. Here's to cautiously hoping they have listened to "ALL" the complaints.
Poor Yo-Yo, so unloved.
At lease it was color coordinated to the iMac unlike the MealyMouse.
Somewhere, I have a yo-yo in the design of the yo-yo mouse. Can't remember where I got it, but it's still mint in box, unopened. Wonder if it's worth anything?
I seriously don't buy this ... another keyboard and mouse ?! come on ...
Apple presented a fake mobile phone even to its employees before releasing the iphone (i think i've read that on a blog, unreliable source of course)
I very much doubt Apple would submit a fake keyboard and mouse to the FCC.
≈T
Interesting.... a mouse with a g-spot.
Which business is Apple really in?!?
The mice with the MS-style scroll wheel is commonly referred to as the "clit mouse." It was a female coworker who pointed that out to me.
I tend to like Apple mice (including the MM which is excellent when the ball is working, and even the hockey puck mouse). I think it's because I hold the mouse like Steve thinks we should. I just noticed this today while reading this thread. I hold and move my mouse with thumb and pinky and don't move my wrist at all.
Black keys and backlight, please.
Numeric keypad
This redesigned/resized keyboard-stuff is not legit. The size-numbers are from the white plastic plate that goes on the back on the current wireless keyboard. The numbers are identical. ...
this is not accurate.
current wireless keyboard: 130 x 280 mm
drawing states: 108 x276 mm
Hi Mel no trackballs just scrollwheels on at least 3 Logitech mice I've been using (G3, traveller, something else - usb wireless one) and no cleaning necessary for the past few years. Of course, there are differences between trackballs and scrollwheels.
Er, those are mice, not trackballs, remember? I've seen some of the ridiculous two wheel mice for horiz and vert scrolling that have come out over the years. A terrible solution. I know several people who bought them, and got rid of them just as quickly.
This ball has been the best solution, though poorly implemented.
If Apple could find a GOOD touch solution, that would be much better of course. No argument there.
And it would need to allow scrolling in any direction, just like the ball. It would need to respond to acceleration, just like the ball.
I just don't know how they are going to solve the problem of Touch. When we just barely touch our iPhone/Touch screens, the contact is made. How sensitive will this be? With a resistance based device, you can rest your finger on it and it won't respond. But with touch, the mere fact that it doesn't require any pressure means that you can't rest your finger on it. How easy is that?
How are they going to solve this? If you need to exert pressure, it will be difficult to do, and will get tiring, even if the pressure is small.
Big boys and girls appreciate a keyboard with a numeric keypad. These aren't VIC-20s on our desks anymore, Steve. Thank you.
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The idea of a wireless keyboard is that it's small and light.
How many people are working on spreadsheets with the keyboard on their knees, and the computer screen four or more feet away?
I'm sure there are some, and they can use an extension cord, or buy another keyboard with a keypad.
But I think that Apple is intending their wireless models for less serious uses.
It would seem with your assessment of the Might Mouse, in this case I am. You fail to see the design as a shambles that's a ticking time-bomb for when it stops being usable. A real mouse, i.e. a decent mouse can go for years without any mechanical cleaning. You honestly accept that it has to be cleaner once every two weeks? That's funny. And like others have said here, the ball isn't the only issue, the side buttons and the right click method were awfully conceived. Apple doesn't quite get mice, people know this.
But there's always potential for salvation, just look at their new keyboards - they are excellent. Here's to cautiously hoping they have listened to "ALL" the complaints.
I'm not talking about any other parts of the mouse other than the ball. I agree that the buttons can be too hard to press at times, though my daughter likes the mouse.
And no, I don't think it's such a big deal to clean it once and a while so that a good feature can be used. Are you saying that the millions of people who prefer trackballs, all of which must be cleaned from once a week to once a month, shouldn't be using them because of that? People would laugh at that assertion.
If you read most of the comments here about the cleaning, and the many threads about the mouse that were around since it first came out, you would see that the vast majority of people who complain about the dirty ball that stops functioning after a few months, are not stating that the ball is a bad idea, but that they can't get inside to clean it.
Most people don't mind the idea of cleaning it. Its the fact that it's so difficult, or almost impossible to do.
The only reason why mice moved to using light instead of the ball was because it could be done on a flat surface. and even that doesn't work all the time on some surfaces. The ball actually worked on more surfaces than the light.
If Apple can replace the ball with a non moving method that works well, then I'm all for it.
My post above discusses problems that we may see with that.
Are you saying that the millions of people who prefer trackballs, all of which must be cleaned from once a week to once a month, shouldn't be using them because of that? People would laugh at that assertion.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Proper mice don't need mechanical cleaning to "just work". "It just works - after you've done a good cleaning." We're computer users, not friggin' cleaners. But I guess you've proven now why Apple gets away with putting out crap mice, people will make excuses for them. In the meantime the sensible people will go buy a real mouse.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Proper mice don't need mechanical cleaning to "just work". "It just works - after you've done a good cleaning." We're computer users, not friggin' cleaners. But I guess you've proven now why Apple gets away with putting out crap mice, people will make excuses for them. In the meantime the sensible people will go buy a real mouse.
You're way out of touch with reality then.
this is not accurate.
current wireless keyboard: 130 x 280 mm
drawing states: 108 x276 mm
Well, this would be nice if it was a drawing of the back of the new keyboard, but it's only a drawing of the piece of plastic that covers the backside. The piece of plastic on the back on the Apple wireless keyboard I'm writing on now also have the dimensions of 108x276mm. It's just a drawing of a "label" not the whole keyboard.
You're way out of touch with reality then.
Sorry to barge in on your argument, but which part of his message was out of touch?
I believe Ireland was trying to state that the MM is not a good mouse, because of the ball cleaning issues and difficulties with using the "squeeze"-buttons and buttons in general too often lead into the undesired buttonpresses instead of the desired one and is that out of touch with reality or what he was thinking that you're trying to say?
On the forum however people immediately say "no, it's excellent". Fine, they're opinions, but Ireland's (and one of the other critics was immediately labeled as a troll when he stated that Apples keyboards are not all that good) opinions about the mouse are not "kosher"? Just a question: When is a mouse just bad and when is it still a good mouse with good ideas, but with one bad implementation (the ball)?
My personal opinion is, that all Apple products look good, many of them have very good usability (OSX, iPod, iPhone to name a few), but there are lemons as well and mice is the one place where Microsoft and Logitech far exceed usability and comfort over Apple. I would have said so for the keyboards as well some time back, but the current "chiclit" keyboards are good enough to not warrant a "bad". Still the keyboard on Lenovo laptops for example is significantly better for daily work use. But again that's a personal opinion.
Now if we put discussion back on topic, I personally do wish that Apple comes out with some true usability improvements (preferably a never before seen approach to really make it "the best") on the mouse and why not on the keyboard side as well, that would make life that little bit more interesting. But hopefully not a touchscreen keyboard. Please not that.
Regs, Jarkko
The new Mighty Mouse sounds like a great step forward. I love my current Mighty Mouse and have never had any of the problems that have caused others to hate it so much.
Agreed.
I have wired and now use a wireless. I love them both.
Sorry to barge in on your argument, but which part of his message was out of touch?
I believe Ireland was trying to state that the MM is not a good mouse, because of the ball cleaning issues and difficulties with using the "squeeze"-buttons and buttons in general too often lead into the undesired buttonpresses instead of the desired one and is that out of touch with reality or what he was thinking that you're trying to say?
On the forum however people immediately say "no, it's excellent". Fine, they're opinions, but Ireland's (and one of the other critics was immediately labeled as a troll when he stated that Apples keyboards are not all that good) opinions about the mouse are not "kosher"? Just a question: When is a mouse just bad and when is it still a good mouse with good ideas, but with one bad implementation (the ball)?
My personal opinion is, that all Apple products look good, many of them have very good usability (OSX, iPod, iPhone to name a few), but there are lemons as well and mice is the one place where Microsoft and Logitech far exceed usability and comfort over Apple. I would have said so for the keyboards as well some time back, but the current "chiclit" keyboards are good enough to not warrant a "bad". Still the keyboard on Lenovo laptops for example is significantly better for daily work use. But again that's a personal opinion.
Now if we put discussion back on topic, I personally do wish that Apple comes out with some true usability improvements (preferably a never before seen approach to really make it "the best") on the mouse and why not on the keyboard side as well, that would make life that little bit more interesting. But hopefully not a touchscreen keyboard. Please not that.
Regs, Jarkko
Thanks for the perspective. Though I would like to say I love the keyboards Apple makes now. I think they are awesome. Perfect for me.
But like you're getting at, the MM is a terrible mouse/product. Unwanted stepson. Lemon. Mistake. Brain-fart.
---
I'd like to also add what I said a few weeks ago. The only healthy relationship you could have with Apple is a love-hate one. Only hate or only love would be a lie.
Sorry to barge in on your argument, but which part of his message was out of touch?
The part where he said an Apple product had flaws. Everybody knows that's not possible.
You fail to see the design as a shambles that's a ticking time-bomb for when it stops being usable. A real mouse, i.e. a decent mouse can go for years without any mechanical cleaning.
I've been using computers with a UI mouse since 1984, almost daily, typically for many hours a day. I've used Logitech, Microsoft, Apple, and a half-dozen other brands that no longer exist, in office and home environments. 1-button, two-button, 3 button, & more. Ones that were fully programmable and ones with merely customizable buttons. I've also used track-pads, graphics tablets and track balls. Before mice, I used joy disks built into keyboards to move the cursor on Tektronix CAD systems. Every single one of them failed at one point or another, none ever lasted years without maintenance if you use a mouse heavily.
You honestly accept that it has to be cleaner(sic) once every two weeks?
I use a wired and a wireless MM as my primary input tools, doing delicate Photoshop image retouching for hours every day. In the last two years, I've cleaned them twice each, and that includes working for a year-long stint in a limestone cave that had a high incidence of moist, granular dust. I'll take a wireless MM to the trackpad on my MBP for precision work any day. I absolutely love the roller ball for horizontal scrolling - it's a perfectly intuitive human interface action that indicates to me that Apple "gets the mouse" more than you realize. The MM is twice the input device provided with every Dell, HP or other general market brand of PC I've ever purchased or been issues for work. Heck, some companies are still bundling crappy PS2 peripherals.
Feel free to hate whatever device doesn't suit your methods, but consider that because someone might like putting neon lights in the fenders of a car doesn't make it what everyone else wants. You certainly don't speak for me, and since I've purchased, deployed, and supported hundreds of Macs over a twenty-five year business span, I dare say Apple might want to take my opinion to heart just as much as yours.
If the Mighty Mouse doesn't suit you, buy whatever does. Or you could try washing your hands more often if reading other people's opinions regularly get you all worked up in a sweat.