Well, do you have all the pictures and video already shot, edited and in the can?
Or, do you need expensive/powerful software (and the training to use it), computers, cameras, lenses, videoCams, Lighting, studio time, etc., to prepare the LP content.
Any special effects, e.g. green screen, compositing, rotoscoping?
How long does it take to make .pngs of all the lyrics and textual content?
Even if all the video and pictures exist, it can take hours of editing to create a few minutes of content.
I have about $10,000 worth of software (Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, Canvas, special plugins and filters, etc).
I have $1,500 worth of VideoCam equipment that I use to take video of the grandkids (3) soccer games-- about 1 hour per game.
I have 7 Macs and 20 Terabytes of external hard disk (video files are quite big-- 1 hour of video is about 57 Gig).
When I get home I import and examine the footage looking for highlights (importing takes about 50 minutes per hour of video). This is a tedious process just locating the clips you want to use. Once you have the clips, you need to manipulate them into a acceptable presentation-- arranging, cutouts, compositing, adjusting color, size, cropping, freeze frame, slow motion, synch background music and sound effects.
It can easily take hours (or even days) to get everything just right for a 2-minute highlight,
So, no, I don't think $10,000 is unreasonable... if anything, it is much too low.
*
So, according to your logic, for each LP Apple buys 10.000 worth of equipment, and then throws it away, so that the next client is forced to pay another 10.000? Ha. I kid.
But seriously, if LPs are web-like, development costs should be very low. If I had a band, all I wanted to put in it would be cover art, lyrics, band bio and some extra photos.
That is not a good analogy. It would be more like Apple charging you $10 000 to build your app and you just provide the images etc. Not a bad deal really - when you consider how slick these things look. They are even better than most websites these bands have.
So if it takes them months to approve an app how long do you think it will take them to build an LP? You have got to be kidding. apple would need thousands of builders. That's ridiculous. Especially when my team can build a presentation like this in about a week including generating the content. I doubt building every LP is Apple's plan.
this would seem to be to be the key statement. this (and the Extras feature) are a test. see if there is interest, work out the kinks etc.
and yeah I know, someone is going to say that an Apple Rep says. well guess what, it wouldn't be the first time an Apple Rep got something wrong. this whole experiment is only about 6 weeks old if that. now in 6 months if they are saying 'you aren't old enough to play in this sandbox' then you've got something to gripe about.
Agreed. This is what I am thinking. It probably will change. The only thing that may prevent that from happening are the concessions to the major labels. Certainly when we are talking about delivering magazines or comics this policy can't hold true either. Unless they are looking at preventing indies in other mediums from selling on the ITMS as well but that just sounds like it would give people an opportunity to slam Apple some more.
So… why don’t Indy artists just grab the HTML, CSS, JS templates and create their own iTunes LP-like content that will open up in a web browser free of charge? Why not just create a new file type (example: artist_name.olp for Open LP) that will do everything that iTunes LP will do but without requiring iTunes to work. It seems odd that Indy artists are upset that they can’t be more tied to iTunes.
Well, do you have all the pictures and video already shot, edited and in the can?
Or, do you need expensive/powerful software (and the training to use it), computers, cameras, lenses, videoCams, Lighting, studio time, etc., to prepare the LP content.
Any special effects, e.g. green screen, compositing, rotoscoping?
How long does it take to make .pngs of all the lyrics and textual content?
Even if all the video and pictures exist, it can take hours of editing to create a few minutes of content.
I have about $10,000 worth of software (Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, Canvas, special plugins and filters, etc).
I have $1,500 worth of VideoCam equipment that I use to take video of the grandkids (3) soccer games-- about 1 hour per game.
I have 7 Macs and 20 Terabytes of external hard disk (video files are quite big-- 1 hour of video is about 57 Gig).
When I get home I import and examine the footage looking for highlights (importing takes about 50 minutes per hour of video). This is a tedious process just locating the clips you want to use. Once you have the clips, you need to manipulate them into a acceptable presentation-- arranging, cutouts, compositing, adjusting color, size, cropping, freeze frame, slow motion, synch background music and sound effects.
It can easily take hours (or even days) to get everything just right for a 2-minute highlight,
So, no, I don't think $10,000 is unreasonable... if anything, it is much too low.
*
Thanks for the reply. I can see the value in what you detailed, particularly with producing the video. Editing, less so, as video editors also seem to be in pretty high abundance, even many talented ones.
Nonetheless, I don't think Apple's package is including very much of what you described. Maybe converting text to pngs. You asked how long that takes. 15 minutes? I certainly don't think Apple will be sending a crew over to the band to film them. I seriously doubt there's much if any editing involved either. It seems a case of you send us the graphics, video, text and we assemble it.
I think Daniel was really stretching his reality distortion field for this article. Physical media like Blu Ray is not a valid comparison to, what I said before, is basically a glorified Flash movie. And saying the fee is necessary for quality control? Didn't he recently criticize MS for instituting a per app submission fee? If anything, the App store, not iTunes, needs a submission fee.
Well, do you have all the pictures and video already shot, edited and in the can?
Or, do you need expensive/powerful software (and the training to use it), computers, cameras, lenses, videoCams, Lighting, studio time, etc., to prepare the LP content.
Any special effects, e.g. green screen, compositing, rotoscoping?
How long does it take to make .pngs of all the lyrics and textual content?
Even if all the video and pictures exist, it can take hours of editing to create a few minutes of content.
I have about $10,000 worth of software (Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, Canvas, special plugins and filters, etc).
I have $1,500 worth of VideoCam equipment that I use to take video of the grandkids (3) soccer games-- about 1 hour per game.
I have 7 Macs and 20 Terabytes of external hard disk (video files are quite big-- 1 hour of video is about 57 Gig).
When I get home I import and examine the footage looking for highlights (importing takes about 50 minutes per hour of video). This is a tedious process just locating the clips you want to use. Once you have the clips, you need to manipulate them into a acceptable presentation-- arranging, cutouts, compositing, adjusting color, size, cropping, freeze frame, slow motion, synch background music and sound effects.
It can easily take hours (or even days) to get everything just right for a 2-minute highlight,
So, no, I don't think $10,000 is unreasonable... if anything, it is much too low.
*
And then there are client changes, legal concerns, copyrights, patents, logos, and more client changes, etc. And there are more persons involved and who won't do it for nothing.
Thanks for the reply. I can see the value in what you detailed, particularly with producing the video. Editing, less so, as video editors also seem to be in pretty high abundance, even many talented ones.
Nonetheless, I don't think Apple's package is including very much of what you described. Maybe converting text to pngs. You asked how long that takes. 15 minutes? I certainly don't think Apple will be sending a crew over to the band to film them. I seriously doubt there's much if any editing involved either. It seems a case of you send us the graphics, video, text and we assemble it.
I think Daniel was really stretching his reality distortion field for this article. Physical media like Blu Ray is not a valid comparison to, what I said before, is basically a glorified Flash movie. And saying the fee is necessary for quality control? Didn't he recently criticize MS for instituting a per app submission fee? If anything, the App store, not iTunes, needs a submission fee.
So what is holding you back? Or anybody else that is complaining?
So, according to your logic, for each LP Apple buys 10.000 worth of equipment, and then throws it away, so that the next client is forced to pay another 10.000? Ha. I kid.
But seriously, if LPs are web-like, development costs should be very low. If I had a band, all I wanted to put in it would be cover art, lyrics, band bio and some extra photos.
I didn't make my point clearly enough.
Let me try this:
If Apple does, in fact, charge $10,000 per LP album to create the package.
If the necessary content (pictures, videos, lyrics, credits, background material for each song, etc.) already exists.
It takes creative skilled people, with talent, with training, with professional hardware and software, to put together a LP package.
I have an example where all the content is available and all the skill, hardware, software and training is already in place.
In my case, I am using about 14 seconds of game play to create 2 minutes of video (with audio background) to present a soccer highlight. This is roughly equivalent to 1 song in a 12-song LP album.
First, I get the content into a format I could manipulate (uploading from the camera).
Then I spent several hours reviewing the footage to see what I had-- jumping back and forth marking points of interest.
To do this I have to be knowledgeable about the game of soccer, the particular players, the position of people on and off screen. A good coach once told me that: "Goals don't win soccer games, Defense wins soccer games... provide a good defense and the goals will happen".
So, after identifying the clips and bits I can use, I put together a prototype of what looks good.
At this point I am several hours into the process.
Now, i see how it plays-- parts are too light/dark/blurry. They need to be corrected.
Then, I decide to insert a freeze frame here and another further down, with a slow-motion lead-in.
The freeze frame needs to be cropped or otherwise highlighted for emphasis.
This is an iterative process, going over things, adding, modifying, deleting.
For example my original 14-second sequence shows a sweeper getting the ball near center line, kicking it over everyone's heads and it bounces in front of the goal, where a teammate heads it into the net. I have a freeze frame of the kick, a slowmo of the ball bouncing and another freeze of the header. I need cropped and enlarged portraits to highlight the 2 players-- the kicker is easy, but all I have is the back of the header player. So, back to the original video to see if I can find a workable portrait of the second player, that won't look out of context.
I usually add a prolog, titles, some text panels explaining what is happening, and an epilog. This takes time selecting fonts that will look good at various resolutions, colors, fades, wipes, and entering the actual content.
On this particular project, it took about 8 hours to get to this point. Isolating individual action shots on a field of running players is tough!
Then, I wanted some upbeat background music-- I picked a segment of a song by trial and error, and found a match I liked after about 30 minutes.
Once this was done, the process of synching the video with the audio began. What I attempt to do here is match up points in the audio with key points in the video: a drumroll as a player approaches the ball then a rimshot or symbol clash at the point of impact. This is done by fiddling with the video, clipping/extending to match the audio.
This too, is iterative, and each time you need to review more and more of what you have done as the project nears completion.
On this particular project, I used Arlo Guthrie's St. Louis Tickle for the opening and main video, then Liberty Bell March (Monty Python Theme) for the trailer credits and short video of a Beckham midfield goal from 1996.
When I was happy, about 11 hours in, I uploaded the video to YouTube in HD format. After about 40 minutes, the video was available but the audio was disabled-- YouTube didn't accept the "Tickle" audio.
So, back to the drawing boards. I spent an hour trying various "acceptable" audio tracks, but couldn't find one I liked. So I redid the whole thing with the Monty Python track and just ignored the A/V synching.
After 12 hours of work, I had my 2:18 duration video "published".
I didn't use expensive software for this, Just iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto and Garageband.
The point is, it took someone:
1) who knew what he was doing
2) was familiar with the content and context
many hours to package a single video.
I wasn't concerned with the logistics and juxtaposition of multiple songs in an album. I wasn't concerned with HTML, CSS, or JavaScript to present a LP widget. I wasn't concerned with lyrics or background material.
Just doing the video is not an easy job.
In an earlier post I stated that I don't think Apple wants to get into the LP creation business. Rather, they are using the $10,000 as an entry fee or cover charge so they can control the process while they gain experience.
so if it takes them months to approve an app how long do you think it will take them to build an lp? You have got to be kidding. Apple would need thousands of builders. That's ridiculous. Especially when my team can build a presentation like this in about a week including generating the content. I doubt building every lp is apple's plan.
Thanks for the reply. I can see the value in what you detailed, particularly with producing the video. Editing, less so, as video editors also seem to be in pretty high abundance, even many talented ones.
That may be true, but unless the video editors are familiar with the artist and their work, it may take a lot of involvement by the artist working with the editor (as the dollar-sign odometer spins).
I think it is Apple's goal to have a tool where the artists can create (or at least storyboard) their LPs.
Quote:
Nonetheless, I don't think Apple's package is including very much of what you described. Maybe converting text to pngs. You asked how long that takes. 15 minutes?
15 minutes of mechanical time... maybe, for each song. But then there's the selection of fonts colors transitions, backgrounds. This is an artistic process that probably takes several iterations to get right (even with a tool to automate the process).
Quote:
I certainly don't think Apple will be sending a crew over to the band to film them. I seriously doubt there's much if any editing involved either. It seems a case of you send us the graphics, video, text and we assemble it.
I mostly agree with this! I believe Apple is working with a few flagship creatives to help define the Package, Process and Tools. I think that, ultimately, Apple wants to get complete LP packages from the creatives.
Quote:
I think Daniel was really stretching his reality distortion field for this article. Physical media like Blu Ray is not a valid comparison to, what I said before, is basically a glorified Flash movie. And saying the fee is necessary for quality control? Didn't he recently criticize MS for instituting a per app submission fee? If anything, the App store, not iTunes, needs a submission fee.
Yeah, DED usually seems to have an underlying agenda, and sometimes manipulates facts to fit that agenda.
So what is holding you back? Or anybody else that is complaining?
Holding me back from what? My only concern is Apple suppressing indie content.
Quote:
And then there are client changes, legal concerns, copyrights, patents, logos, and more client changes, etc. And there are more persons involved and who won't do it for nothing.
Who said anything about all that? That's the label and artist's concerns. All Apple is doing is assembling finished content into a proprietary wrapper.
In an earlier post I stated that I don't think Apple wants to get into the LP creation business. Rather, they are using the $10,000 as an entry fee or cover charge so they can control the process while they gain experience.
*
That is definitely the point of the fee. I can imagine that being flooded with thousands of LP's for approval is exactly what Apple doesn't want. They've have a hard of enough time approving the Apps. The fee is definitely a cost above and beyond actually producing the LP content which is my only gripe, but at the same time I think it's smart to encourage serious development.
With client fixes/ approvals/ changes/ re-edits I'm sure Apple and the producer would both rather that a finished product goes to Apple. They definitely do not "approve" or proof TV shows (there are many glitches on the ITMS) nor do they really "approve" or proof the music. The idea of approval really stems from the App store. Apple would be overextending themselves in this case so it seems evident that the current scheme is temporary and we'll be building our own LP's soon enough.
The fee itself is another matter, while it is understandable for a number of reasons, I think it could be smaller since I don't need Apple to build an HTML 5 presentation for me. That's just putting effort into the wrong place and it sounds like a nightmare.
Tough situation for Apple especially since they've already stated that they don't want to have multiple rules for every medium (music, movies/ TV, print, Apps) on the store.
It'll be interesting to see how they shape the process for print media, which is going to be particularly difficult given that the magazine has to be updated daily, weekly or monthly. It could get very expensive, but if the publishers were able to offset their print costs (which are also very expensive) a fee as in the LP scheme might be reasonable. Depends on your formula for ROI and how dedicate/ confident you are to electronic media delivery.
With client fixes/ approvals/ changes/ re-edits I'm sure Apple and the producer would both rather that a finished product goes to Apple. They definitely do not "approve" or proof TV shows (there are many glitches on the ITMS) nor do they really "approve" or proof the music. The idea of approval really stems from the App store. Apple would be overextending themselves in this case so it seems evident that the current scheme is temporary and we'll be building our own LP's soon enough.
I think the difference might be that audio and video are linear media. It's not likely to misbehave, and it's likely to be to Apple's technical specs if they use Apple's encoders. iTunes LP and apps are interactive and there is interpreted or executed code in the product. Just a thought.
It'll be interesting to see how they shape the process for print media, which is going to be particularly difficult given that the magazine has to be updated daily, weekly or monthly. It could get very expensive, but if the publishers were able to offset their print costs (which are also very expensive) a fee as in the LP scheme might be reasonable. Depends on your formula for ROI and how dedicate/ confident you are to electronic media delivery.
I think that Apple will handle print like podcasts, where each issue is an entity, unto itself... you don't update or replace existing issues, you just add the next issue. With podcasts, Apple already has the subscription mechanism in place for free content. For paid content, the payment mechanism is handled by the provider, not Apple. Apple provides search and access to the content. The content resides on the provider's servers.
Some of this could change for magazines, newsletters, newspapers, etc., but the pieces are already in place.
That is definitely the point of the fee. I can imagine that being flooded with thousands of LP's for approval is exactly what Apple doesn't want. They've have a hard of enough time approving the Apps. The fee is definitely a cost above and beyond actually producing the LP content which is my only gripe, but at the same time I think it's smart to encourage serious development.
Since you have current experience, consider an LP, like Nora Jones-- where the artist came to you with:
1) audio, video and images of the target quality/resolution
2) all the textual material that needs to be converted to appropriate .png files
3) an overall idea/mockup/storyboard of what the album would contain and how the various components would interact,
What currently-available tools would you use?
How long would it take in elapsed time and man hours?
With just basic HTML, CSS and JavaScript?
With a LP IDE tool: with capabilities like like parts of DashCode, iMovie, iWeb, etc.; and some predefined templates?
I agree. But as for the burner, maybe they meant a BD duplicator? I'm pretty sure BD duplicators are cheaper than that now, I thought I saw one for half that price, and it included a printer setup for printing a design onto the disc.
Aren't graphic designers/ web developers a dime a dozen? I'm having a pretty hard time believing that $10,000 is a perfectly reasonable fee for what is basically a glorified Flash movie that one or two guys could throw together in a week and make it look really good.
Perhaps you too should reread this article and in particular, "iTunes LP, as AppleInsider was among the first to report, is essentially a self-contained web application and the relatedlink?i.e.,
"A look at how iTunes LP and Extras work
Now look at how iTunes Extras are built: while distributed as a single file, the item is really a bundle (a folder that Mac OS X treats as a file) that amounts to a self-contained web site. It acts as a container for folders of standard PNG and JPEG graphics, AAC audio, and H.264 video content together with HTML and CSS presentation and JavaScript code.
Dig deeper into these files and you?ll see references to ?TuneKit,? Apple?s internal name for a JavaScript framework fusing WebKit and iTunes as a way to deliver rich, interactive content. This extras project was originally called Cocktail." http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0...d-at-apple-tv/
By the way, how much do you expect to pay for 80-100 hours to throw your amateur production together?
for an indie label that's a strange complaint... it would be nice if Apple would let smaller artists develop their own LP designs over SDK and then submit for review via Apple. i do agree with the author, that $10,000 is not necessarily surprising, if Apple is really going to take the time and effort to do professional design of each LP they are handed.
Comments
Well, do you have all the pictures and video already shot, edited and in the can?
Or, do you need expensive/powerful software (and the training to use it), computers, cameras, lenses, videoCams, Lighting, studio time, etc., to prepare the LP content.
Any special effects, e.g. green screen, compositing, rotoscoping?
How long does it take to make .pngs of all the lyrics and textual content?
Even if all the video and pictures exist, it can take hours of editing to create a few minutes of content.
I have about $10,000 worth of software (Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, Canvas, special plugins and filters, etc).
I have $1,500 worth of VideoCam equipment that I use to take video of the grandkids (3) soccer games-- about 1 hour per game.
I have 7 Macs and 20 Terabytes of external hard disk (video files are quite big-- 1 hour of video is about 57 Gig).
When I get home I import and examine the footage looking for highlights (importing takes about 50 minutes per hour of video). This is a tedious process just locating the clips you want to use. Once you have the clips, you need to manipulate them into a acceptable presentation-- arranging, cutouts, compositing, adjusting color, size, cropping, freeze frame, slow motion, synch background music and sound effects.
It can easily take hours (or even days) to get everything just right for a 2-minute highlight,
So, no, I don't think $10,000 is unreasonable... if anything, it is much too low.
*
So, according to your logic, for each LP Apple buys 10.000 worth of equipment, and then throws it away, so that the next client is forced to pay another 10.000? Ha. I kid.
But seriously, if LPs are web-like, development costs should be very low. If I had a band, all I wanted to put in it would be cover art, lyrics, band bio and some extra photos.
That is not a good analogy. It would be more like Apple charging you $10 000 to build your app and you just provide the images etc. Not a bad deal really - when you consider how slick these things look. They are even better than most websites these bands have.
So if it takes them months to approve an app how long do you think it will take them to build an LP? You have got to be kidding. apple would need thousands of builders. That's ridiculous. Especially when my team can build a presentation like this in about a week including generating the content. I doubt building every LP is Apple's plan.
this would seem to be to be the key statement. this (and the Extras feature) are a test. see if there is interest, work out the kinks etc.
and yeah I know, someone is going to say that an Apple Rep says. well guess what, it wouldn't be the first time an Apple Rep got something wrong. this whole experiment is only about 6 weeks old if that. now in 6 months if they are saying 'you aren't old enough to play in this sandbox' then you've got something to gripe about.
Agreed. This is what I am thinking. It probably will change. The only thing that may prevent that from happening are the concessions to the major labels. Certainly when we are talking about delivering magazines or comics this policy can't hold true either. Unless they are looking at preventing indies in other mediums from selling on the ITMS as well but that just sounds like it would give people an opportunity to slam Apple some more.
Well, do you have all the pictures and video already shot, edited and in the can?
Or, do you need expensive/powerful software (and the training to use it), computers, cameras, lenses, videoCams, Lighting, studio time, etc., to prepare the LP content.
Any special effects, e.g. green screen, compositing, rotoscoping?
How long does it take to make .pngs of all the lyrics and textual content?
Even if all the video and pictures exist, it can take hours of editing to create a few minutes of content.
I have about $10,000 worth of software (Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, Canvas, special plugins and filters, etc).
I have $1,500 worth of VideoCam equipment that I use to take video of the grandkids (3) soccer games-- about 1 hour per game.
I have 7 Macs and 20 Terabytes of external hard disk (video files are quite big-- 1 hour of video is about 57 Gig).
When I get home I import and examine the footage looking for highlights (importing takes about 50 minutes per hour of video). This is a tedious process just locating the clips you want to use. Once you have the clips, you need to manipulate them into a acceptable presentation-- arranging, cutouts, compositing, adjusting color, size, cropping, freeze frame, slow motion, synch background music and sound effects.
It can easily take hours (or even days) to get everything just right for a 2-minute highlight,
So, no, I don't think $10,000 is unreasonable... if anything, it is much too low.
*
Thanks for the reply. I can see the value in what you detailed, particularly with producing the video. Editing, less so, as video editors also seem to be in pretty high abundance, even many talented ones.
Nonetheless, I don't think Apple's package is including very much of what you described. Maybe converting text to pngs. You asked how long that takes. 15 minutes? I certainly don't think Apple will be sending a crew over to the band to film them. I seriously doubt there's much if any editing involved either. It seems a case of you send us the graphics, video, text and we assemble it.
I think Daniel was really stretching his reality distortion field for this article. Physical media like Blu Ray is not a valid comparison to, what I said before, is basically a glorified Flash movie. And saying the fee is necessary for quality control? Didn't he recently criticize MS for instituting a per app submission fee? If anything, the App store, not iTunes, needs a submission fee.
Well, do you have all the pictures and video already shot, edited and in the can?
Or, do you need expensive/powerful software (and the training to use it), computers, cameras, lenses, videoCams, Lighting, studio time, etc., to prepare the LP content.
Any special effects, e.g. green screen, compositing, rotoscoping?
How long does it take to make .pngs of all the lyrics and textual content?
Even if all the video and pictures exist, it can take hours of editing to create a few minutes of content.
I have about $10,000 worth of software (Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, Canvas, special plugins and filters, etc).
I have $1,500 worth of VideoCam equipment that I use to take video of the grandkids (3) soccer games-- about 1 hour per game.
I have 7 Macs and 20 Terabytes of external hard disk (video files are quite big-- 1 hour of video is about 57 Gig).
When I get home I import and examine the footage looking for highlights (importing takes about 50 minutes per hour of video). This is a tedious process just locating the clips you want to use. Once you have the clips, you need to manipulate them into a acceptable presentation-- arranging, cutouts, compositing, adjusting color, size, cropping, freeze frame, slow motion, synch background music and sound effects.
It can easily take hours (or even days) to get everything just right for a 2-minute highlight,
So, no, I don't think $10,000 is unreasonable... if anything, it is much too low.
*
And then there are client changes, legal concerns, copyrights, patents, logos, and more client changes, etc. And there are more persons involved and who won't do it for nothing.
Thanks for the reply. I can see the value in what you detailed, particularly with producing the video. Editing, less so, as video editors also seem to be in pretty high abundance, even many talented ones.
Nonetheless, I don't think Apple's package is including very much of what you described. Maybe converting text to pngs. You asked how long that takes. 15 minutes? I certainly don't think Apple will be sending a crew over to the band to film them. I seriously doubt there's much if any editing involved either. It seems a case of you send us the graphics, video, text and we assemble it.
I think Daniel was really stretching his reality distortion field for this article. Physical media like Blu Ray is not a valid comparison to, what I said before, is basically a glorified Flash movie. And saying the fee is necessary for quality control? Didn't he recently criticize MS for instituting a per app submission fee? If anything, the App store, not iTunes, needs a submission fee.
So what is holding you back? Or anybody else that is complaining?
So, according to your logic, for each LP Apple buys 10.000 worth of equipment, and then throws it away, so that the next client is forced to pay another 10.000? Ha. I kid.
But seriously, if LPs are web-like, development costs should be very low. If I had a band, all I wanted to put in it would be cover art, lyrics, band bio and some extra photos.
I didn't make my point clearly enough.
Let me try this:
If Apple does, in fact, charge $10,000 per LP album to create the package.
If the necessary content (pictures, videos, lyrics, credits, background material for each song, etc.) already exists.
It takes creative skilled people, with talent, with training, with professional hardware and software, to put together a LP package.
I have an example where all the content is available and all the skill, hardware, software and training is already in place.
In my case, I am using about 14 seconds of game play to create 2 minutes of video (with audio background) to present a soccer highlight. This is roughly equivalent to 1 song in a 12-song LP album.
First, I get the content into a format I could manipulate (uploading from the camera).
Then I spent several hours reviewing the footage to see what I had-- jumping back and forth marking points of interest.
To do this I have to be knowledgeable about the game of soccer, the particular players, the position of people on and off screen. A good coach once told me that: "Goals don't win soccer games, Defense wins soccer games... provide a good defense and the goals will happen".
So, after identifying the clips and bits I can use, I put together a prototype of what looks good.
At this point I am several hours into the process.
Now, i see how it plays-- parts are too light/dark/blurry. They need to be corrected.
Then, I decide to insert a freeze frame here and another further down, with a slow-motion lead-in.
The freeze frame needs to be cropped or otherwise highlighted for emphasis.
This is an iterative process, going over things, adding, modifying, deleting.
For example my original 14-second sequence shows a sweeper getting the ball near center line, kicking it over everyone's heads and it bounces in front of the goal, where a teammate heads it into the net. I have a freeze frame of the kick, a slowmo of the ball bouncing and another freeze of the header. I need cropped and enlarged portraits to highlight the 2 players-- the kicker is easy, but all I have is the back of the header player. So, back to the original video to see if I can find a workable portrait of the second player, that won't look out of context.
I usually add a prolog, titles, some text panels explaining what is happening, and an epilog. This takes time selecting fonts that will look good at various resolutions, colors, fades, wipes, and entering the actual content.
On this particular project, it took about 8 hours to get to this point. Isolating individual action shots on a field of running players is tough!
Then, I wanted some upbeat background music-- I picked a segment of a song by trial and error, and found a match I liked after about 30 minutes.
Once this was done, the process of synching the video with the audio began. What I attempt to do here is match up points in the audio with key points in the video: a drumroll as a player approaches the ball then a rimshot or symbol clash at the point of impact. This is done by fiddling with the video, clipping/extending to match the audio.
This too, is iterative, and each time you need to review more and more of what you have done as the project nears completion.
On this particular project, I used Arlo Guthrie's St. Louis Tickle for the opening and main video, then Liberty Bell March (Monty Python Theme) for the trailer credits and short video of a Beckham midfield goal from 1996.
When I was happy, about 11 hours in, I uploaded the video to YouTube in HD format. After about 40 minutes, the video was available but the audio was disabled-- YouTube didn't accept the "Tickle" audio.
So, back to the drawing boards. I spent an hour trying various "acceptable" audio tracks, but couldn't find one I liked. So I redid the whole thing with the Monty Python track and just ignored the A/V synching.
After 12 hours of work, I had my 2:18 duration video "published".
I didn't use expensive software for this, Just iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto and Garageband.
The point is, it took someone:
1) who knew what he was doing
2) was familiar with the content and context
many hours to package a single video.
I wasn't concerned with the logistics and juxtaposition of multiple songs in an album. I wasn't concerned with HTML, CSS, or JavaScript to present a LP widget. I wasn't concerned with lyrics or background material.
Just doing the video is not an easy job.
In an earlier post I stated that I don't think Apple wants to get into the LP creation business. Rather, they are using the $10,000 as an entry fee or cover charge so they can control the process while they gain experience.
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so if it takes them months to approve an app how long do you think it will take them to build an lp? You have got to be kidding. Apple would need thousands of builders. That's ridiculous. Especially when my team can build a presentation like this in about a week including generating the content. I doubt building every lp is apple's plan.
+++ qft
Thanks for the reply. I can see the value in what you detailed, particularly with producing the video. Editing, less so, as video editors also seem to be in pretty high abundance, even many talented ones.
That may be true, but unless the video editors are familiar with the artist and their work, it may take a lot of involvement by the artist working with the editor (as the dollar-sign odometer spins).
I think it is Apple's goal to have a tool where the artists can create (or at least storyboard) their LPs.
Nonetheless, I don't think Apple's package is including very much of what you described. Maybe converting text to pngs. You asked how long that takes. 15 minutes?
15 minutes of mechanical time... maybe, for each song. But then there's the selection of fonts colors transitions, backgrounds. This is an artistic process that probably takes several iterations to get right (even with a tool to automate the process).
I certainly don't think Apple will be sending a crew over to the band to film them. I seriously doubt there's much if any editing involved either. It seems a case of you send us the graphics, video, text and we assemble it.
I mostly agree with this! I believe Apple is working with a few flagship creatives to help define the Package, Process and Tools. I think that, ultimately, Apple wants to get complete LP packages from the creatives.
I think Daniel was really stretching his reality distortion field for this article. Physical media like Blu Ray is not a valid comparison to, what I said before, is basically a glorified Flash movie. And saying the fee is necessary for quality control? Didn't he recently criticize MS for instituting a per app submission fee? If anything, the App store, not iTunes, needs a submission fee.
Yeah, DED usually seems to have an underlying agenda, and sometimes manipulates facts to fit that agenda.
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So what is holding you back? Or anybody else that is complaining?
Holding me back from what? My only concern is Apple suppressing indie content.
And then there are client changes, legal concerns, copyrights, patents, logos, and more client changes, etc. And there are more persons involved and who won't do it for nothing.
Who said anything about all that? That's the label and artist's concerns. All Apple is doing is assembling finished content into a proprietary wrapper.
In an earlier post I stated that I don't think Apple wants to get into the LP creation business. Rather, they are using the $10,000 as an entry fee or cover charge so they can control the process while they gain experience.
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That is definitely the point of the fee. I can imagine that being flooded with thousands of LP's for approval is exactly what Apple doesn't want. They've have a hard of enough time approving the Apps. The fee is definitely a cost above and beyond actually producing the LP content which is my only gripe, but at the same time I think it's smart to encourage serious development.
With client fixes/ approvals/ changes/ re-edits I'm sure Apple and the producer would both rather that a finished product goes to Apple. They definitely do not "approve" or proof TV shows (there are many glitches on the ITMS) nor do they really "approve" or proof the music. The idea of approval really stems from the App store. Apple would be overextending themselves in this case so it seems evident that the current scheme is temporary and we'll be building our own LP's soon enough.
The fee itself is another matter, while it is understandable for a number of reasons, I think it could be smaller since I don't need Apple to build an HTML 5 presentation for me. That's just putting effort into the wrong place and it sounds like a nightmare.
Tough situation for Apple especially since they've already stated that they don't want to have multiple rules for every medium (music, movies/ TV, print, Apps) on the store.
It'll be interesting to see how they shape the process for print media, which is going to be particularly difficult given that the magazine has to be updated daily, weekly or monthly. It could get very expensive, but if the publishers were able to offset their print costs (which are also very expensive) a fee as in the LP scheme might be reasonable. Depends on your formula for ROI and how dedicate/ confident you are to electronic media delivery.
Remember "Video Killed the Radio Star"? This is like "iPod Killed the LP Star"!
Digital booklets are a joke. Apple is trying to resurrect a dead art form I guess because they helped kill it in the first place.
the peer to peer pirates killed it
apple saved it
With client fixes/ approvals/ changes/ re-edits I'm sure Apple and the producer would both rather that a finished product goes to Apple. They definitely do not "approve" or proof TV shows (there are many glitches on the ITMS) nor do they really "approve" or proof the music. The idea of approval really stems from the App store. Apple would be overextending themselves in this case so it seems evident that the current scheme is temporary and we'll be building our own LP's soon enough.
I think the difference might be that audio and video are linear media. It's not likely to misbehave, and it's likely to be to Apple's technical specs if they use Apple's encoders. iTunes LP and apps are interactive and there is interpreted or executed code in the product. Just a thought.
It'll be interesting to see how they shape the process for print media, which is going to be particularly difficult given that the magazine has to be updated daily, weekly or monthly. It could get very expensive, but if the publishers were able to offset their print costs (which are also very expensive) a fee as in the LP scheme might be reasonable. Depends on your formula for ROI and how dedicate/ confident you are to electronic media delivery.
I think that Apple will handle print like podcasts, where each issue is an entity, unto itself... you don't update or replace existing issues, you just add the next issue. With podcasts, Apple already has the subscription mechanism in place for free content. For paid content, the payment mechanism is handled by the provider, not Apple. Apple provides search and access to the content. The content resides on the provider's servers.
Some of this could change for magazines, newsletters, newspapers, etc., but the pieces are already in place.
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That is definitely the point of the fee. I can imagine that being flooded with thousands of LP's for approval is exactly what Apple doesn't want. They've have a hard of enough time approving the Apps. The fee is definitely a cost above and beyond actually producing the LP content which is my only gripe, but at the same time I think it's smart to encourage serious development.
Since you have current experience, consider an LP, like Nora Jones-- where the artist came to you with:
1) audio, video and images of the target quality/resolution
2) all the textual material that needs to be converted to appropriate .png files
3) an overall idea/mockup/storyboard of what the album would contain and how the various components would interact,
What currently-available tools would you use?
How long would it take in elapsed time and man hours?
With just basic HTML, CSS and JavaScript?
With a LP IDE tool: with capabilities like like parts of DashCode, iMovie, iWeb, etc.; and some predefined templates?
What price range would you charge?
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Remember "Video Killed the Radio Star"? This is like "iPod Killed the LP Star"!
Digital booklets are a joke. Apple is trying to resurrect a dead art form I guess because they helped kill it in the first place.
the peer to peer pirates killed it
apple saved it
I would only add:
in spite of the labels
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I agree. But as for the burner, maybe they meant a BD duplicator? I'm pretty sure BD duplicators are cheaper than that now, I thought I saw one for half that price, and it included a printer setup for printing a design onto the disc.
I would suggest rereading the article and even following the links, e.g., http://digitalcontentproducer.com/vi.../bluray_blues/
Aren't graphic designers/ web developers a dime a dozen? I'm having a pretty hard time believing that $10,000 is a perfectly reasonable fee for what is basically a glorified Flash movie that one or two guys could throw together in a week and make it look really good.
Perhaps you too should reread this article and in particular, "iTunes LP, as AppleInsider was among the first to report, is essentially a self-contained web application and the relatedlink?i.e.,
"A look at how iTunes LP and Extras work
Now look at how iTunes Extras are built: while distributed as a single file, the item is really a bundle (a folder that Mac OS X treats as a file) that amounts to a self-contained web site. It acts as a container for folders of standard PNG and JPEG graphics, AAC audio, and H.264 video content together with HTML and CSS presentation and JavaScript code.
Dig deeper into these files and you?ll see references to ?TuneKit,? Apple?s internal name for a JavaScript framework fusing WebKit and iTunes as a way to deliver rich, interactive content. This extras project was originally called Cocktail." http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0...d-at-apple-tv/
By the way, how much do you expect to pay for 80-100 hours to throw your amateur production together?