And either way 10% GST is still no way near the difference between the 2 prices.
Yup, that's right... No idea what is that difference supposed to be but to pay AU$1000 more for a top of the line iMac in the same config just because I'm in Australia is quite ridiulous. Anyone up for a massive hunger strike in front of the Sydney Apple store?
I was also worried about apple abandoning its high margin, high value strategy. but I think that they realized with the iPhone that they can use low prices to get people in the door, and once they're there, they end up buying the better, more expensive version.
As a long time Apple product purchaser, I wish Apple always provided at least a modicum of extra quality in their highest tiered products. I really don't have too much to quibble about regarding the present lineup of laptop/desktop Macs though the graphics offerings for the Mac Pro are always a year out of date.
But with the iPhone, you just don't get the extra value for going with the premium offering. My main gripes with the iPhone: 1) The quality of materials used has diminished substantively since the 1st gen phone. The aluminum back may have made it a bit more of a challenge for the radios to do their thing, but I bet not by much - the plastic back of the 2nd and current gen phones is just so cheap feeling in the hands. 2) I know this has been argued to death but I have to say that I just find the 2nd gen and current gen screens to be unacceptable with the definite yellow haze, an astonishingly visible screen door look to it - and is it even made of glass? It looks so inferior to the 1st gen phone. I certainly welcome the additions of the GPS, compass, video capabilities, more memory and faster processor, but sadly whenever I hold the newer phones in my hand, it just gives me a "meh" feeling rather than the "ooh" feeling I had the first time I picked up my 1st gen iPhone.
Most smart business's won't upgrade to 7 for a while. IT Depts need to test it against current software, this generally takes 3-6months. The beauty of virtual machines.
Most smart IT departments skipped Vista and have been testing continuously since Vista's release and the release of the Windows 7 RC. Expect rapid adoption of Windows 7 in corporate IT along with a strong spike in PC sales as companies refresh machines they have been holding out on.
Most smart IT departments skipped Vista and have been testing continuously since Vista's release and the release of the Windows 7 RC. Expect rapid adoption of Windows 7 in corporate IT along with a strong spike in PC sales as companies refresh machines they have been holding out on.
it will take two years to get rolling. the specialized business software they rely on has to be updated and completely debugged for Win 7 first. then they have to train everyone. right now they are mainly focusing on Server 2007 deployment still, and need to finish that first. there is always a multi-year lag in overall enterprise updates for such reasons.
Most smart IT departments skipped Vista and have been testing continuously since Vista's release and the release of the Windows 7 RC. Expect rapid adoption of Windows 7 in corporate IT along with a strong spike in PC sales as companies refresh machines they have been holding out on.
Since SP1 on Vista, doing some minor tweaks... As long as printer drivers and AD2003 are there, then the smart money is on some people had no choice.
But some have no choice in the matter. XP only handles 2 CPU's and 3.25gb of ram, period. So that new 4 core desktop the GU dept needed for their software, guess what-Vista 64b.
Apple products seem cheaper, and yet the Mac ASP went from 1330 to 1380 for desktops, and 1254 to 1265 for laptops. The iPod ASP went from 146 to 154. And an analyst said that the iPhone ASP has gone up too.
People still want the more expensive stuff.
Apple has said this numerous times. They offer a less expensive model, and people don't buy it.
Remember how quickly they discontinue devices will less memory, even though they're cheaper, because people want the one with more memory, even though it costs more?
In fact, the lowest end of almost any Apple product doesn't sell as well as more expensive models.
Most people want to upgrade to a higher performance model, and they're willing to pay for it.
When I bought my daughter her 15 MBP early September, I was going to get her the 2.6 GHZ model with the 320 HDD, but ended up buying her the 2.8 GHz model with the 500 HDD. I was even going to go for the 7200 RPM drive, but the store didn't have it in stock (they never do), and she had to leave in a few days.
it will take two years to get rolling. the specialized business software they rely on has to be updated and completely debugged for Win 7 first. then they have to train everyone. right now they are mainly focusing on Server 2007 deployment still, and need to finish that first. there is always a multi-year lag in overall enterprise updates for such reasons.
You mean 2008 Server. And yes, your on the money. Some AD structures I've been working with lately are still 2000 levels due to stragglers running older systems.
But with the iPhone, you just don't get the extra value for going with the premium offering. My main gripes with the iPhone: 1) The quality of materials used has diminished substantively since the 1st gen phone. The aluminum back may have made it a bit more of a challenge for the radios to do their thing, but I bet not by much - the plastic back of the 2nd and current gen phones is just so cheap feeling in the hands. 2) I know this has been argued to death but I have to say that I just find the 2nd gen and current gen screens to be unacceptable with the definite yellow haze, an astonishingly visible screen door look to it - and is it even made of glass? It looks so inferior to the 1st gen phone. I certainly welcome the additions of the GPS, compass, video capabilities, more memory and faster processor, but sadly whenever I hold the newer phones in my hand, it just gives me a "meh" feeling rather than the "ooh" feeling I had the first time I picked up my 1st gen iPhone.
I think you're going overboard with this. The 1st gen phone's screen was too blue. This one is better. I have't seen a phone with the screen door effect. And, yes, the surface is still a very thin layer of optical glass bonded to the plastic layer below.
I've had friends with the first phone, dent the aluminum back. It may have seemed elegant, but the plastic is more rugged.
Most smart IT departments skipped Vista and have been testing continuously since Vista's release and the release of the Windows 7 RC. Expect rapid adoption of Windows 7 in corporate IT along with a strong spike in PC sales as companies refresh machines they have been holding out on.
That's not what's being said. Rollout is expected to take a while, after the first adopters are finished. Since so many machines use XP, converting will be a bear.
Buying new machines won't be an option for many because we're still in a recession, and neither business or consumers seem to be in the mood to replace their machines yet. THe PC industry moved only by 2% this quarter, and while some will be waiting for the new OS, that still doesn't look great.
I expect the Christmas season will result in good sales, but it's afterwards that we have to look to.
Apple seems to be an exception to this, and more than a few in the industry are saying that just as tradition has it, Apple's sales will increase when MS comes out with a new OS.
I don't think companies should make the cheapest products possible, they should make the best products as cheaply as possible. I hate plasticy, breakable junk.
I don't think companies should make the cheapest products possible, they should make the best products as cheaply as possible. I hate plasticy, breakable junk.
It also depends on how well it's designed.
A friend of mine, Bob Carver, once said in response to a question about why a speaker model he designed performed so well despite its price:
"Good engineering doesn't cost more than poor engineering".
I agree.
If high quality materials are also included, then you will have a high quality product.
What's interesting is they said they would do this well over a year ago and instead, they introduced a more expensive unibody laptop, iMac prices went up everywhere except the US (despite the US having the worst economy and the fact that the international debt has mostly been caused by the US) and the entry Mac Pro went up by a ridiculous amount.
So now after a year, they come back and say the same thing. This time I believe them but they are clearly already reaping excessive profit margins so a drop will at best bring them to the point of being reasonable. It'll be something like the £1900 Mac Pro, which used to be £1500 dropping by 34% of their gross profit, which will be £200-300 and bring it all the way down to £1600 maybe i.e still more expensive than it was.
The entry Macbook used to be £700, it's now £750 but it's still the crappy old white one. Everybody wants the unibody one so now that the laptops have taken 74% of the Mac marketshare, they can lower the prices and drop the white Macbook and bring the 13" unibody down to £750 (it's only a £150 drop). Then bring in a £550 tablet.
That 74% number looks pretty good because I've said all along, there's no point in buying an iMac any more when a unibody laptop costs the same for the same performance and you can get a 20" IPS display for under £200 and a 24" for £400. You get two screens, portability and the value holds better in the laptops and you can actually upgrade your hard drive.
What I'd love to see happen:
Mini = £399-£549 (£100 drop) same spec
Tablet = £549-£749 <- dual core Atom
13" unibody = £749-1099 <- Core 2 Duo
15" unibody = £1099-1499 <- Clarksfield quads
iMac (oh no, iMac isn't needed any more)
Mac Pro £1499+ same spec
It sounds like a long term price reduction from what Cook says rather than an immediate drop but eventually that's what I'd like to see happen.
The danger in sticking with the Core 2 Duo (except perhaps in the Mini and Air) is that the "Macs are expensive" meme gets replaced with a "Macs are slow" one.
I know some think the Core 2 Duo is more than anyone could need for home tasks, but when the i7 first came out I replaced the Core 2 Duo 3.06 in my PC with a 2.93 i7. Motherboard and ram had to change to be compatible but everything else: video card, disks, case, power supply was the same.
*Immediately* noticed the difference. Not just in gaming but everyday tasks. We need to keep up with the PC world.
What's interesting is they said they would do this well over a year ago and instead, they introduced a more expensive unibody laptop, iMac prices went up everywhere except the US (despite the US having the worst economy and the fact that the international debt has mostly been caused by the US) and the entry Mac Pro went up by a ridiculous amount.
So now after a year, they come back and say the same thing. This time I believe them but they are clearly already reaping excessive profit margins so a drop will at best bring them to the point of being reasonable. It'll be something like the £1900 Mac Pro, which used to be £1500 dropping by 34% of their gross profit, which will be £200-300 and bring it all the way down to £1600 maybe i.e still more expensive than it was.
The entry Macbook used to be £700, it's now £750 but it's still the crappy old white one. Everybody wants the unibody one so now that the laptops have taken 74% of the Mac marketshare, they can lower the prices and drop the white Macbook and bring the 13" unibody down to £750 (it's only a £150 drop). Then bring in a £550 tablet.
That 74% number looks pretty good because I've said all along, there's no point in buying an iMac any more when a unibody laptop costs the same for the same performance and you can get a 20" IPS display for under £200 and a 24" for £400. You get two screens, portability and the value holds better in the laptops and you can actually upgrade your hard drive.
What I'd love to see happen:
Mini = £399-£549 (£100 drop) same spec
Tablet = £549-£749 <- dual core Atom
13" unibody = £749-1099 <- Core 2 Duo
15" unibody = £1099-1499 <- Clarksfield quads
iMac (oh no, iMac isn't needed any more)
Mac Pro £1499+ same spec
It sounds like a long term price reduction from what Cook says rather than an immediate drop but eventually that's what I'd like to see happen.
I don't at all agree on the excessive margins. Just because other companies have poor margins doesn't mean that Apple's is excessive. Those others are looking at Apple and wondering how they got where they are, and how they can fix it to become more like Apple.
But they got themselves in a spiral downwards, and it's going to be very difficult to stop that race to the bottom.
I don't want to see Apple in that same race.
No matter what their prices end up being, as long as it doesn't match the lowest PC pricing, some wag will complain it's too high.
Kind of reminds me of a company here in MN, Magnepan. Their lowest model speaker is $500, and they only BREAK EVEN on selling them. But they know that their product is so good (MMG) your going to want to upgrade once you here how good the lowest model is.
Just to let you know Magnepan is world renowned for being an Audiophile speaker. Yet they have found a way to let "amateurs" in the door and test the waters. Looks about like what Apple wants to do.
I was also worried about apple abandoning its high margin, high value strategy. but I think that they realized with the iPhone that they can use low prices to get people in the door, and once they're there, they end up buying the better, more expensive version.
Apple is finally figuring out, that all the long held myths were only keeping the Mac back and Apple from making money. Of course they created a few new ones along the way, but that's another story.
If Windows 7 comes out on Thursday, if I were Apple, I'd intro new hardware on Friday. Kinda like taking the wind out of their sails.
For those of us who predicted this shift in Apple's strategy, it's very relieving to see it come to fruition. We don't want to see drastic price cuts that lead to compromises in hardware and software design, but merely margin cuts that keep quality high and consumers buying.
Volume is powerful. Lower prices should stoke sales. Someone tell Obama to watch and learn how this works.
What makes you think he needs to learn? He was the one who broke all fundraising records by making it easy to give small amounts.
I liked the bit about being surprised Snow Leopard sold so well. I seldom buy an OS upgrade, and soldier on a few releases behind because the value to me is minimal ? I don't care about eye candy and don't much care for beta testing until release 10.x.5. But I bought an SL family pack because (a) the price was good and (b) it was a nice technology upgrade without a lot of cruft.
I hope that's the lesson Apple has learnt. I hope the new hardware is minimal, a real technology advance and inexpensive because it's well designed not because of compromising quality.
Comments
And either way 10% GST is still no way near the difference between the 2 prices.
Yup, that's right... No idea what is that difference supposed to be but to pay AU$1000 more for a top of the line iMac in the same config just because I'm in Australia is quite ridiulous. Anyone up for a massive hunger strike in front of the Sydney Apple store?
I'm sorry, I can't be specific on the product, but it's an abnormal sequential increase.
▼
▼▼NANOPHONE
carrier less
Nah. It'll be a bumped-up-in-spec iPod Touch. Getting a compass and other features.
The Tablet is coming!: LOL
Heh.... and so have some readers...
I was also worried about apple abandoning its high margin, high value strategy. but I think that they realized with the iPhone that they can use low prices to get people in the door, and once they're there, they end up buying the better, more expensive version.
As a long time Apple product purchaser, I wish Apple always provided at least a modicum of extra quality in their highest tiered products. I really don't have too much to quibble about regarding the present lineup of laptop/desktop Macs though the graphics offerings for the Mac Pro are always a year out of date.
But with the iPhone, you just don't get the extra value for going with the premium offering. My main gripes with the iPhone: 1) The quality of materials used has diminished substantively since the 1st gen phone. The aluminum back may have made it a bit more of a challenge for the radios to do their thing, but I bet not by much - the plastic back of the 2nd and current gen phones is just so cheap feeling in the hands. 2) I know this has been argued to death but I have to say that I just find the 2nd gen and current gen screens to be unacceptable with the definite yellow haze, an astonishingly visible screen door look to it - and is it even made of glass? It looks so inferior to the 1st gen phone. I certainly welcome the additions of the GPS, compass, video capabilities, more memory and faster processor, but sadly whenever I hold the newer phones in my hand, it just gives me a "meh" feeling rather than the "ooh" feeling I had the first time I picked up my 1st gen iPhone.
Most smart business's won't upgrade to 7 for a while. IT Depts need to test it against current software, this generally takes 3-6months. The beauty of virtual machines.
Most smart IT departments skipped Vista and have been testing continuously since Vista's release and the release of the Windows 7 RC. Expect rapid adoption of Windows 7 in corporate IT along with a strong spike in PC sales as companies refresh machines they have been holding out on.
Most smart IT departments skipped Vista and have been testing continuously since Vista's release and the release of the Windows 7 RC. Expect rapid adoption of Windows 7 in corporate IT along with a strong spike in PC sales as companies refresh machines they have been holding out on.
it will take two years to get rolling. the specialized business software they rely on has to be updated and completely debugged for Win 7 first. then they have to train everyone. right now they are mainly focusing on Server 2007 deployment still, and need to finish that first. there is always a multi-year lag in overall enterprise updates for such reasons.
Most smart IT departments skipped Vista and have been testing continuously since Vista's release and the release of the Windows 7 RC. Expect rapid adoption of Windows 7 in corporate IT along with a strong spike in PC sales as companies refresh machines they have been holding out on.
Since SP1 on Vista, doing some minor tweaks... As long as printer drivers and AD2003 are there, then the smart money is on some people had no choice.
But some have no choice in the matter. XP only handles 2 CPU's and 3.25gb of ram, period. So that new 4 core desktop the GU dept needed for their software, guess what-Vista 64b.
Apple products seem cheaper, and yet the Mac ASP went from 1330 to 1380 for desktops, and 1254 to 1265 for laptops. The iPod ASP went from 146 to 154. And an analyst said that the iPhone ASP has gone up too.
People still want the more expensive stuff.
Apple has said this numerous times. They offer a less expensive model, and people don't buy it.
Remember how quickly they discontinue devices will less memory, even though they're cheaper, because people want the one with more memory, even though it costs more?
In fact, the lowest end of almost any Apple product doesn't sell as well as more expensive models.
Most people want to upgrade to a higher performance model, and they're willing to pay for it.
When I bought my daughter her 15 MBP early September, I was going to get her the 2.6 GHZ model with the 320 HDD, but ended up buying her the 2.8 GHz model with the 500 HDD. I was even going to go for the 7200 RPM drive, but the store didn't have it in stock (they never do), and she had to leave in a few days.
it will take two years to get rolling. the specialized business software they rely on has to be updated and completely debugged for Win 7 first. then they have to train everyone. right now they are mainly focusing on Server 2007 deployment still, and need to finish that first. there is always a multi-year lag in overall enterprise updates for such reasons.
You mean 2008 Server. And yes, your on the money. Some AD structures I've been working with lately are still 2000 levels due to stragglers running older systems.
But with the iPhone, you just don't get the extra value for going with the premium offering. My main gripes with the iPhone: 1) The quality of materials used has diminished substantively since the 1st gen phone. The aluminum back may have made it a bit more of a challenge for the radios to do their thing, but I bet not by much - the plastic back of the 2nd and current gen phones is just so cheap feeling in the hands. 2) I know this has been argued to death but I have to say that I just find the 2nd gen and current gen screens to be unacceptable with the definite yellow haze, an astonishingly visible screen door look to it - and is it even made of glass? It looks so inferior to the 1st gen phone. I certainly welcome the additions of the GPS, compass, video capabilities, more memory and faster processor, but sadly whenever I hold the newer phones in my hand, it just gives me a "meh" feeling rather than the "ooh" feeling I had the first time I picked up my 1st gen iPhone.
I think you're going overboard with this. The 1st gen phone's screen was too blue. This one is better. I have't seen a phone with the screen door effect. And, yes, the surface is still a very thin layer of optical glass bonded to the plastic layer below.
I've had friends with the first phone, dent the aluminum back. It may have seemed elegant, but the plastic is more rugged.
Most smart IT departments skipped Vista and have been testing continuously since Vista's release and the release of the Windows 7 RC. Expect rapid adoption of Windows 7 in corporate IT along with a strong spike in PC sales as companies refresh machines they have been holding out on.
That's not what's being said. Rollout is expected to take a while, after the first adopters are finished. Since so many machines use XP, converting will be a bear.
Buying new machines won't be an option for many because we're still in a recession, and neither business or consumers seem to be in the mood to replace their machines yet. THe PC industry moved only by 2% this quarter, and while some will be waiting for the new OS, that still doesn't look great.
I expect the Christmas season will result in good sales, but it's afterwards that we have to look to.
Apple seems to be an exception to this, and more than a few in the industry are saying that just as tradition has it, Apple's sales will increase when MS comes out with a new OS.
Time will tell.
I don't think companies should make the cheapest products possible, they should make the best products as cheaply as possible. I hate plasticy, breakable junk.
It also depends on how well it's designed.
A friend of mine, Bob Carver, once said in response to a question about why a speaker model he designed performed so well despite its price:
"Good engineering doesn't cost more than poor engineering".
I agree.
If high quality materials are also included, then you will have a high quality product.
So now after a year, they come back and say the same thing. This time I believe them but they are clearly already reaping excessive profit margins so a drop will at best bring them to the point of being reasonable. It'll be something like the £1900 Mac Pro, which used to be £1500 dropping by 34% of their gross profit, which will be £200-300 and bring it all the way down to £1600 maybe i.e still more expensive than it was.
The entry Macbook used to be £700, it's now £750 but it's still the crappy old white one. Everybody wants the unibody one so now that the laptops have taken 74% of the Mac marketshare, they can lower the prices and drop the white Macbook and bring the 13" unibody down to £750 (it's only a £150 drop). Then bring in a £550 tablet.
That 74% number looks pretty good because I've said all along, there's no point in buying an iMac any more when a unibody laptop costs the same for the same performance and you can get a 20" IPS display for under £200 and a 24" for £400. You get two screens, portability and the value holds better in the laptops and you can actually upgrade your hard drive.
What I'd love to see happen:
Mini = £399-£549 (£100 drop) same spec
Tablet = £549-£749 <- dual core Atom
13" unibody = £749-1099 <- Core 2 Duo
15" unibody = £1099-1499 <- Clarksfield quads
iMac (oh no, iMac isn't needed any more)
Mac Pro £1499+ same spec
It sounds like a long term price reduction from what Cook says rather than an immediate drop but eventually that's what I'd like to see happen.
"Good engineering doesn't cost more than poor engineering".
I'll have to remember that one next time my boss wants me to take a shortcut on a software design.
Mini = £399-£549 (£100 drop) same spec
Tablet = £549-£749 <- dual core Atom
13" unibody = £749-1099 <- Core 2 Duo
15" unibody = £1099-1499 <- Clarksfield quads
iMac (oh no, iMac isn't needed any more)
Mac Pro £1499+ same spec
The danger in sticking with the Core 2 Duo (except perhaps in the Mini and Air) is that the "Macs are expensive" meme gets replaced with a "Macs are slow" one.
I know some think the Core 2 Duo is more than anyone could need for home tasks, but when the i7 first came out I replaced the Core 2 Duo 3.06 in my PC with a 2.93 i7. Motherboard and ram had to change to be compatible but everything else: video card, disks, case, power supply was the same.
*Immediately* noticed the difference. Not just in gaming but everyday tasks. We need to keep up with the PC world.
What's interesting is they said they would do this well over a year ago and instead, they introduced a more expensive unibody laptop, iMac prices went up everywhere except the US (despite the US having the worst economy and the fact that the international debt has mostly been caused by the US) and the entry Mac Pro went up by a ridiculous amount.
So now after a year, they come back and say the same thing. This time I believe them but they are clearly already reaping excessive profit margins so a drop will at best bring them to the point of being reasonable. It'll be something like the £1900 Mac Pro, which used to be £1500 dropping by 34% of their gross profit, which will be £200-300 and bring it all the way down to £1600 maybe i.e still more expensive than it was.
The entry Macbook used to be £700, it's now £750 but it's still the crappy old white one. Everybody wants the unibody one so now that the laptops have taken 74% of the Mac marketshare, they can lower the prices and drop the white Macbook and bring the 13" unibody down to £750 (it's only a £150 drop). Then bring in a £550 tablet.
That 74% number looks pretty good because I've said all along, there's no point in buying an iMac any more when a unibody laptop costs the same for the same performance and you can get a 20" IPS display for under £200 and a 24" for £400. You get two screens, portability and the value holds better in the laptops and you can actually upgrade your hard drive.
What I'd love to see happen:
Mini = £399-£549 (£100 drop) same spec
Tablet = £549-£749 <- dual core Atom
13" unibody = £749-1099 <- Core 2 Duo
15" unibody = £1099-1499 <- Clarksfield quads
iMac (oh no, iMac isn't needed any more)
Mac Pro £1499+ same spec
It sounds like a long term price reduction from what Cook says rather than an immediate drop but eventually that's what I'd like to see happen.
I don't at all agree on the excessive margins. Just because other companies have poor margins doesn't mean that Apple's is excessive. Those others are looking at Apple and wondering how they got where they are, and how they can fix it to become more like Apple.
But they got themselves in a spiral downwards, and it's going to be very difficult to stop that race to the bottom.
I don't want to see Apple in that same race.
No matter what their prices end up being, as long as it doesn't match the lowest PC pricing, some wag will complain it's too high.
Just to let you know Magnepan is world renowned for being an Audiophile speaker. Yet they have found a way to let "amateurs" in the door and test the waters. Looks about like what Apple wants to do.
I was also worried about apple abandoning its high margin, high value strategy. but I think that they realized with the iPhone that they can use low prices to get people in the door, and once they're there, they end up buying the better, more expensive version.
Apple is finally figuring out, that all the long held myths were only keeping the Mac back and Apple from making money. Of course they created a few new ones along the way, but that's another story.
If Windows 7 comes out on Thursday, if I were Apple, I'd intro new hardware on Friday. Kinda like taking the wind out of their sails.
For those of us who predicted this shift in Apple's strategy, it's very relieving to see it come to fruition. We don't want to see drastic price cuts that lead to compromises in hardware and software design, but merely margin cuts that keep quality high and consumers buying.
Volume is powerful. Lower prices should stoke sales. Someone tell Obama to watch and learn how this works.
What makes you think he needs to learn? He was the one who broke all fundraising records by making it easy to give small amounts.
I liked the bit about being surprised Snow Leopard sold so well. I seldom buy an OS upgrade, and soldier on a few releases behind because the value to me is minimal ? I don't care about eye candy and don't much care for beta testing until release 10.x.5. But I bought an SL family pack because (a) the price was good and (b) it was a nice technology upgrade without a lot of cruft.
I hope that's the lesson Apple has learnt. I hope the new hardware is minimal, a real technology advance and inexpensive because it's well designed not because of compromising quality.