I was talking to a friend from London and he said that kind of advertising is just not acceptable there- putting down your competition rather than talking up your own strengths.
We all know EU (so England) is govern by socialists, and they don't like saying "A is better then B" even this is true.
I understand MS is renovating and renaming the adjacent men's room for their store.
A bit of a confusion on that one I heard. They wanted to call it windows and the board thought they wanted to put windows into the mens room.
It was latter confirmed they wanted to call it what it is. Some on the board were worried the bathroom would go down every couple of hours needing a re-flush and that they might get a bad virus if they went in it.
... CTA is LONG overdue to be in private hands instead of government. Why subsidize unprofitable routes?! Tired of government welfare/theft!
Because there's no such thing as a profitable route. There's never been an example of a successful, privately-funded mass transit system. Mass-transit is a public good (speaking technically), like education, defense, fire-prevention, etc.
Neoliberal and neoconservative thinkers agree on just one thing: that private is better than public. The fact that they have little data to back that idea up (and certainly less than the data to the contrary) is, uh, disturbing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper
Chicago's failure to properly manage their subways is not my problem with my purchases of Apple products.
See above-- mass transit, by its nature, uses public funds to provide a public good. No other model for intra-urban mass transit has ever successfully existed for more than a short period of time.
See FURTHER above: Apple wants to spend some of its money to improve the shopping experience of its customers. This is not uncommon, and I cannot understand why you'd react to it in the narrow case where that expenditure happens to involve effectively giving money to a public agency.
OK, I'm going to try to keep this thread from getting sucked into PoliticalOutsider.
Here is the deal: CTA is hurting badly, and their infrastructure needs a great deal of work. Apple wants to gussy up the CTA stop because it's the one people will use to get to their shiny new store in a highly desirable Chicago neighborhood. The mutual interest here is blindingly obvious, so it seems astonishing to resort to conspiracy theories.
But $4M? $4M is chump change. First of all, Apple can, and probably will, pay cash on the barrelhead. It's cheaper for them to mine Mt. Megabucks for a bit of the green stuff than it is to pay interest to some bank. They had over a billion dollars in revenue last quarter. If you make $40k a year, or $10k a quarter, this is like spending forty bucks. Except that it's more like investing forty bucks in something that will pay for itself promptly, and then some. The price Apple has paid for their Fifth Avenue store is astronomical, but when you look at the revenue from the store and the marketing value of having that presence, it's money well spent. This is the same deal: Apple knows that if they spend the money and take the time to make the store and the retail experience as close to flawless as possible, people will mob the stores and spend lots and lots of money.
By refurbishing the CTA stop, Apple can not only make it really clear from advertising that this is the stop where the Apple Store is located; they can also make it seem like the kind of stop where an Apple Store would be located. It's a stop you want to get off on, for a store you want to go into.
I really hope Teh Steve doesn't have a say in the redesign of the station itself. As someone who has lived through northern winters I can honestly say a glass staircase would be a real slippery bitch in the winter.
I am sure Apple must think there is good value in doing this, but you would think they would get rights to some of the ad space for free for some length of time.
On the funny side, knowing chicago and its history of patronage, 4-5 million may only pay for a coat of paint (no primer) and a new sign.
Neoliberal and neoconservative thinkers agree on just one thing: that private is better than public. The fact that they have little data to back that idea up (and certainly less than the data to the contrary) is, uh, disturbing.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorph
... The mutual interest here is blindingly obvious, so it seems astonishing to resort to conspiracy theories.
Which calls to mind Bill Moyers, upon receiving the Harvard Medical School's Global Environment Citizen Award, saying, "... ideologues hold stoutly to a world view despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality." [paraphrasing] ideology's offspring is not "always bad but is always blind. And there is the danger: voters and politicians alike, oblivious to the facts."
Irrespective of presumed motives, Apple's decision seems like a business no-brainer to me.
I really hope Teh Steve doesn't have a say in the redesign of the station itself. As someone who has lived through northern winters I can honestly say a glass staircase would be a real slippery bitch in the winter.
Apparently part of the agreement is that the original 1940s style will be preserved. It's a historic building, unique in Chicago, so a redesign would have bogged the project down in endless controversy. Apple doesn't want controversy, they want a clean, attractive stop for the clean, attractive store that's already under construction.
I'm loving all the expert opinion on Chicago from people who don't actually live here.
Amen. And on that note, I wish people would stop conflating Obama with old Chicago machine politics. He was an outsider when he arrived from Harvard and I don't think he ever got into that scene, although he takes a lot of pride in the city, as do many of its residents.
I'm now paying for renovations to a Chicago subway station that I will never use.
Well that's one less Apple product I will buy now to make up for it.
What goes around comes around.
So based on this, if I hire you, I should have some say on how you spend your money?
Your actually buying a product, and in exchange for your funds, you get the product, not the right to direct profits. You could save the money, buy a ton of stock, and then direct the efforts.
"Well maintained", like everything government touches -- just more proof government mismanages money and the CTA is LONG overdue to be in private hands instead of government. Why subsidize unprofitable routes?! Tired of government welfare/theft!
Actually, the various lines of the CTA were developed by private firms around 100 years ago, but when those firms started going bankrupt, the city government stepped in to save the infrastructure. Since this kind of thing is still happening today (e.g., General Motors), I don't understand how the myth persists that corporations always manage money better than governments.
I don't understand the economics of mass transit, or how the CTA was able to renovate several of its Brown Line stations in the last few years, or how its budget compares to the budgets devoted to automobile transportation ... but I would think it's more complicated than "privatization will fix it."
Hard to tell: Spending and putting at risk hundreds of billions of public dollars to prop up companies which, thanks their managements' poor choices, would otherwise have failed is hardly capitalism. Sounds more like 1970s Communist Eastern Europe. How did those policies work out for them?
I think you missed my sarcasm. My point was that it was a "capitalistic" society that is giving away billions of taxpayers dollars, acting like what you described in your post as "1970s Communist Eastern Europe". ..... neither method "works". There is, however, a big difference. In a socialist society government tends to want to have a large degree of control. I think what we have witnessed and are continuing to witness, to a lesser degree, is capitalism "run wild".
IMHO the only choice that would work is a better balanced approach, throw away the "name tags," stop playing the "blame game" and try solutions that aren't buried in particular philosophy, but just might work.
Do we have that now? ..... I hope so, .... but I'm not holding my breath. \
... I don't understand how the myth persists that corporations always manage money better than governments.
... but I would think it's more complicated than "privatization will fix it."
I suspect you understand it well.
That said, generally left-brain focus utilizes logical/sequential thinking, analysis, accuracy and objectively inspects parts of an issue.
Right-brained focus utilizes the random and intuitive, feeling, and is subjective, looking at whole concepts.
Ideology is better suited and more prevalent with the latter, is less arduous, and typically eschews a disciplined reasoning process in favor of a biased emotional reaction, preconception, or speedy gratification.
And why can't the Chicago subway system renovate it's own station?
Why do socialists always capitalize on successful capitalists? Like leaches or something.
Raise the subway fee's a little, renovate the station and rent out space. Be self sustaining or at least make a little profit on it's own merits, not on the backs of companies who will just pass those costs onto guess who?
US. Yes US.
I'm now paying for renovations to a Chicago subway station that I will never use.
Chicago's failure isn't our problem and we shouldn't be paying for it through higher costs for our computers.
And to boot Apple has to still pay for advertising which it should be getting for free for the 4 million.
Well that's one less Apple product I will buy now to make up for it.
What goes around comes around.
Also flashy areas are just places people go to forget how bad the economy is and think they are wealthy. The Apple Stores are filled with lots of people looking, but not buying. That's why the prices have been lowered recently.
The real wealthy types don't need or bother with computers (with their headaches and all) and there are not enough of them spending enough to make it worthwhile catering to their small market. If they use one it's only one computer just like most everyone else.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - Margret Thatcher
Socialism and by the way the society is based on the fact that everybody has the right to have metro stations which which do not look like USSR building. Hence, they think it is a duty for successful people to help the less successful one to make sure they can at least have decent life conditions.
And if you can only think about yourself, just consider letting you neighbors getting pissed off is never a good idea...
By the way, why Chicago ? Any link with any president ?
A gas station? They're going to have to spend a lot more money digging up the tanks and cleaning the site up.
I can't really argue with the choice of location, though. Every penny they spend is worth it for that address.
Hah. No kidding. That could be millions itself, if there was a leak in the right soil. Better hope they didn't scrimp on the Phase I Environmental Site Assessment by a few hundred or something. I never understood why huge companies buying land and doing Phase I ESAs would try to trim a few hundred from a $4,000 +/- product, when millions could be at stake. If I bought a Phase I I'd say you know what, spend 10 hours just checking the whole damn thing.
MacTripper...offtopic... It seems like you are confusing the words socialism and capitalism. I mean you're completely backwards buddy. It sounds like you should be supporting us. Bush and the bankers are on the same team! BUSH bailed them out so they could give away bonuses and never pay us back. Sounds like you want to hang on to your money. Republicans aren't conservative. If you're middle-class, you'll probably end up with less money in your pocket if Republicans run things. Because they want money for the richest of the rich. Not you.
1940s style architecture, fonts, looks, etc. are so damn cool. 30s and 50s too. They should make this Apple store have old-school WW-II era fonts etc., make it like an old diner or something. OK that would be cool but probably not happen.
NIce!!!! I ride the red line EVERY DAY and those (underground) stations are damn ugly, especially North and Clyborne. They renovated the other lines (above ground) quite recently and I am happy to see Clyborne renovated Apple Style.
I would love to see that station replaced with a Giant glass cube.
hey i was in boston this weekend and the fine arts museum used macs at the help desk. has nothing to do with this article but whatever, i thought it was interesting
Comments
You must be talking about the Dear Dark Lord Satan.
Please let's not bring Cheney into this.....
I was talking to a friend from London and he said that kind of advertising is just not acceptable there- putting down your competition rather than talking up your own strengths.
We all know EU (so England) is govern by socialists, and they don't like saying "A is better then B" even this is true.
I understand MS is renovating and renaming the adjacent men's room for their store.
A bit of a confusion on that one I heard. They wanted to call it windows and the board thought they wanted to put windows into the mens room.
It was latter confirmed they wanted to call it what it is. Some on the board were worried the bathroom would go down every couple of hours needing a re-flush and that they might get a bad virus if they went in it.
Who wants to bet that they'll install free wi-fi and multimedia at the station? Maybe even a large touchscreen CTA subway map?
Could just put in a few of those old Giant iPhone displays.
... CTA is LONG overdue to be in private hands instead of government. Why subsidize unprofitable routes?! Tired of government welfare/theft!
Because there's no such thing as a profitable route. There's never been an example of a successful, privately-funded mass transit system. Mass-transit is a public good (speaking technically), like education, defense, fire-prevention, etc.
Neoliberal and neoconservative thinkers agree on just one thing: that private is better than public. The fact that they have little data to back that idea up (and certainly less than the data to the contrary) is, uh, disturbing.
Chicago's failure to properly manage their subways is not my problem with my purchases of Apple products.
See above-- mass transit, by its nature, uses public funds to provide a public good. No other model for intra-urban mass transit has ever successfully existed for more than a short period of time.
See FURTHER above: Apple wants to spend some of its money to improve the shopping experience of its customers. This is not uncommon, and I cannot understand why you'd react to it in the narrow case where that expenditure happens to involve effectively giving money to a public agency.
Here is the deal: CTA is hurting badly, and their infrastructure needs a great deal of work. Apple wants to gussy up the CTA stop because it's the one people will use to get to their shiny new store in a highly desirable Chicago neighborhood. The mutual interest here is blindingly obvious, so it seems astonishing to resort to conspiracy theories.
But $4M? $4M is chump change. First of all, Apple can, and probably will, pay cash on the barrelhead. It's cheaper for them to mine Mt. Megabucks for a bit of the green stuff than it is to pay interest to some bank. They had over a billion dollars in revenue last quarter. If you make $40k a year, or $10k a quarter, this is like spending forty bucks. Except that it's more like investing forty bucks in something that will pay for itself promptly, and then some. The price Apple has paid for their Fifth Avenue store is astronomical, but when you look at the revenue from the store and the marketing value of having that presence, it's money well spent. This is the same deal: Apple knows that if they spend the money and take the time to make the store and the retail experience as close to flawless as possible, people will mob the stores and spend lots and lots of money.
By refurbishing the CTA stop, Apple can not only make it really clear from advertising that this is the stop where the Apple Store is located; they can also make it seem like the kind of stop where an Apple Store would be located. It's a stop you want to get off on, for a store you want to go into.
I am sure Apple must think there is good value in doing this, but you would think they would get rights to some of the ad space for free for some length of time.
On the funny side, knowing chicago and its history of patronage, 4-5 million may only pay for a coat of paint (no primer) and a new sign.
...
Neoliberal and neoconservative thinkers agree on just one thing: that private is better than public. The fact that they have little data to back that idea up (and certainly less than the data to the contrary) is, uh, disturbing.
...
... The mutual interest here is blindingly obvious, so it seems astonishing to resort to conspiracy theories.
Which calls to mind Bill Moyers, upon receiving the Harvard Medical School's Global Environment Citizen Award, saying, "... ideologues hold stoutly to a world view despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality." [paraphrasing] ideology's offspring is not "always bad but is always blind. And there is the danger: voters and politicians alike, oblivious to the facts."
Irrespective of presumed motives, Apple's decision seems like a business no-brainer to me.
I really hope Teh Steve doesn't have a say in the redesign of the station itself. As someone who has lived through northern winters I can honestly say a glass staircase would be a real slippery bitch in the winter.
Apparently part of the agreement is that the original 1940s style will be preserved. It's a historic building, unique in Chicago, so a redesign would have bogged the project down in endless controversy. Apple doesn't want controversy, they want a clean, attractive stop for the clean, attractive store that's already under construction.
So instead of glass, you'll probably get tile.
I'm loving all the expert opinion on Chicago from people who don't actually live here.
Amen. And on that note, I wish people would stop conflating Obama with old Chicago machine politics. He was an outsider when he arrived from Harvard and I don't think he ever got into that scene, although he takes a lot of pride in the city, as do many of its residents.
I'm now paying for renovations to a Chicago subway station that I will never use.
Well that's one less Apple product I will buy now to make up for it.
What goes around comes around.
So based on this, if I hire you, I should have some say on how you spend your money?
Your actually buying a product, and in exchange for your funds, you get the product, not the right to direct profits. You could save the money, buy a ton of stock, and then direct the efforts.
"Well maintained", like everything government touches -- just more proof government mismanages money and the CTA is LONG overdue to be in private hands instead of government. Why subsidize unprofitable routes?! Tired of government welfare/theft!
Actually, the various lines of the CTA were developed by private firms around 100 years ago, but when those firms started going bankrupt, the city government stepped in to save the infrastructure. Since this kind of thing is still happening today (e.g., General Motors), I don't understand how the myth persists that corporations always manage money better than governments.
I don't understand the economics of mass transit, or how the CTA was able to renovate several of its Brown Line stations in the last few years, or how its budget compares to the budgets devoted to automobile transportation ... but I would think it's more complicated than "privatization will fix it."
Hard to tell: Spending and putting at risk hundreds of billions of public dollars to prop up companies which, thanks their managements' poor choices, would otherwise have failed is hardly capitalism. Sounds more like 1970s Communist Eastern Europe. How did those policies work out for them?
I think you missed my sarcasm. My point was that it was a "capitalistic" society that is giving away billions of taxpayers dollars, acting like what you described in your post as "1970s Communist Eastern Europe". ..... neither method "works". There is, however, a big difference. In a socialist society government tends to want to have a large degree of control. I think what we have witnessed and are continuing to witness, to a lesser degree, is capitalism "run wild".
IMHO the only choice that would work is a better balanced approach, throw away the "name tags," stop playing the "blame game" and try solutions that aren't buried in particular philosophy, but just might work.
Do we have that now? ..... I hope so, .... but I'm not holding my breath.
... I don't understand how the myth persists that corporations always manage money better than governments.
... but I would think it's more complicated than "privatization will fix it."
I suspect you understand it well.
That said, generally left-brain focus utilizes logical/sequential thinking, analysis, accuracy and objectively inspects parts of an issue.
Right-brained focus utilizes the random and intuitive, feeling, and is subjective, looking at whole concepts.
Ideology is better suited and more prevalent with the latter, is less arduous, and typically eschews a disciplined reasoning process in favor of a biased emotional reaction, preconception, or speedy gratification.
And why can't the Chicago subway system renovate it's own station?
Why do socialists always capitalize on successful capitalists? Like leaches or something.
Raise the subway fee's a little, renovate the station and rent out space. Be self sustaining or at least make a little profit on it's own merits, not on the backs of companies who will just pass those costs onto guess who?
US. Yes US.
I'm now paying for renovations to a Chicago subway station that I will never use.
Chicago's failure isn't our problem and we shouldn't be paying for it through higher costs for our computers.
And to boot Apple has to still pay for advertising which it should be getting for free for the 4 million.
Well that's one less Apple product I will buy now to make up for it.
What goes around comes around.
Also flashy areas are just places people go to forget how bad the economy is and think they are wealthy. The Apple Stores are filled with lots of people looking, but not buying. That's why the prices have been lowered recently.
The real wealthy types don't need or bother with computers (with their headaches and all) and there are not enough of them spending enough to make it worthwhile catering to their small market. If they use one it's only one computer just like most everyone else.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - Margret Thatcher
Socialism and by the way the society is based on the fact that everybody has the right to have metro stations which which do not look like USSR building. Hence, they think it is a duty for successful people to help the less successful one to make sure they can at least have decent life conditions.
And if you can only think about yourself, just consider letting you neighbors getting pissed off is never a good idea...
By the way, why Chicago ? Any link with any president ?
A gas station? They're going to have to spend a lot more money digging up the tanks and cleaning the site up.
I can't really argue with the choice of location, though. Every penny they spend is worth it for that address.
Hah. No kidding. That could be millions itself, if there was a leak in the right soil. Better hope they didn't scrimp on the Phase I Environmental Site Assessment by a few hundred or something. I never understood why huge companies buying land and doing Phase I ESAs would try to trim a few hundred from a $4,000 +/- product, when millions could be at stake. If I bought a Phase I I'd say you know what, spend 10 hours just checking the whole damn thing.
MacTripper...offtopic... It seems like you are confusing the words socialism and capitalism. I mean you're completely backwards buddy. It sounds like you should be supporting us. Bush and the bankers are on the same team! BUSH bailed them out so they could give away bonuses and never pay us back. Sounds like you want to hang on to your money. Republicans aren't conservative. If you're middle-class, you'll probably end up with less money in your pocket if Republicans run things. Because they want money for the richest of the rich. Not you.
1940s style architecture, fonts, looks, etc. are so damn cool. 30s and 50s too. They should make this Apple store have old-school WW-II era fonts etc., make it like an old diner or something. OK that would be cool but probably not happen.
I would love to see that station replaced with a Giant glass cube.