I really want to buy a Mac, but Apple's price policy makes things difficult
I am looking to buy my first Mac after 3 PCs (including the last, an HP that broke twice in two years, the last time, 10 days after the extended warranty ended).
I have test driven a couple and, indeed, they are one generation ahead of the all the rest. The lightweight aluminum case, the multi-gesture touchpad, the amazing 7 hours battery (!), the quick boot and shutdown.
However, when I compare my possible Apple choices and its prices:
1) Apple 13.3" MacBook Intel Core 2 Duo 2.26GHz, 2GB RAM, 250GB, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, SuperDrive - White Polycarbonate Shell 4.7lbs ($899)
2) Apple 13.3" MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.26GHz, 2GB RAM, 160GB, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, SuperDrive - Aluminum unibody 4.4 lbs ($1073)
3) Apple 13.3" MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.53GHz, 4GB RAM, 250GB, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, SuperDrive - Aluminum unibody 4.4 lbs ($1354)
With all new models and (impressive prices) of the new Windows 7 PCs, it becomes very difficult to justify the purchase:
1) Sony - VAIO Laptop White (VPC-CW17FX/W)
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz 14" 5.3lbs LED-backlit (1366 x 768) System Bus 800MHz 4GB DDR3 500GB SATA (5400 rpm) NVIDIA GeForce G210M GPU IEEE 1394 FireWire Blu-ray Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit ($799)
(http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1218119763906)
2) ASUS G51J-A1 15.6-Inch Blue
1.6GHz Intel i7-720QM Core i7 Processor 7.26lbs 4GB DDR3 640GB SATA (7200 RPM) DVD SuperMulti Drive 15.6" Widescreen Full HD NVidia GTX 260M with 1GB DDR3 VRAM Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit ($1411)
(http://www.amazon.com/G51J-A1-15-6-I.../dp/B002PAQXCW)
And, these are good products, and by far, not the least expensive among PCs.
I can purchase much more expensive products than those I listed, but why pay much more for something that you can get for much less from another source? (Also, take care of your money so it can take care of you, a lesson so many learned the very hard way over these last two years...)
It is a well known fact that Apple has the highest profit margin of all manufacturers. However, with all the competition around, with so much computing power available at record low prices, and with the economy in shambles, how long is it going to take for Apple to bring prices closer to reality?
It was a sign when recently (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._pipeline.html) Apple's Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer said: "[...] new products we have and will announce, delivering greater value, lower gross margin than predecessors." The fact that the MacBook is a huge seller is another sign.
That was a long post, but I have been doing this research for a new laptop for more than a week and I wanted to share it with the rest of you.
I have test driven a couple and, indeed, they are one generation ahead of the all the rest. The lightweight aluminum case, the multi-gesture touchpad, the amazing 7 hours battery (!), the quick boot and shutdown.
However, when I compare my possible Apple choices and its prices:
1) Apple 13.3" MacBook Intel Core 2 Duo 2.26GHz, 2GB RAM, 250GB, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, SuperDrive - White Polycarbonate Shell 4.7lbs ($899)
2) Apple 13.3" MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.26GHz, 2GB RAM, 160GB, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, SuperDrive - Aluminum unibody 4.4 lbs ($1073)
3) Apple 13.3" MacBook Pro Intel Core 2 Duo 2.53GHz, 4GB RAM, 250GB, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, SuperDrive - Aluminum unibody 4.4 lbs ($1354)
With all new models and (impressive prices) of the new Windows 7 PCs, it becomes very difficult to justify the purchase:
1) Sony - VAIO Laptop White (VPC-CW17FX/W)
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz 14" 5.3lbs LED-backlit (1366 x 768) System Bus 800MHz 4GB DDR3 500GB SATA (5400 rpm) NVIDIA GeForce G210M GPU IEEE 1394 FireWire Blu-ray Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit ($799)
(http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1218119763906)
2) ASUS G51J-A1 15.6-Inch Blue
1.6GHz Intel i7-720QM Core i7 Processor 7.26lbs 4GB DDR3 640GB SATA (7200 RPM) DVD SuperMulti Drive 15.6" Widescreen Full HD NVidia GTX 260M with 1GB DDR3 VRAM Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit ($1411)
(http://www.amazon.com/G51J-A1-15-6-I.../dp/B002PAQXCW)
And, these are good products, and by far, not the least expensive among PCs.
I can purchase much more expensive products than those I listed, but why pay much more for something that you can get for much less from another source? (Also, take care of your money so it can take care of you, a lesson so many learned the very hard way over these last two years...)
It is a well known fact that Apple has the highest profit margin of all manufacturers. However, with all the competition around, with so much computing power available at record low prices, and with the economy in shambles, how long is it going to take for Apple to bring prices closer to reality?
It was a sign when recently (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._pipeline.html) Apple's Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer said: "[...] new products we have and will announce, delivering greater value, lower gross margin than predecessors." The fact that the MacBook is a huge seller is another sign.
That was a long post, but I have been doing this research for a new laptop for more than a week and I wanted to share it with the rest of you.
Comments
The reason why we choose Mac is because the Operating System means more to most of us than having a bigger HDD or <insert hardware feature of importance here>.
I've had my Mac mini for 3.5 years now and it's never broken down or me or caused me any grief. My time (and sanity) are imporant to me. If I'm putting a valuation on OS X versus Windows I'm willing to pay $200 for OS X.
Doesn't hurt that Mac resale value is better as well.
how long is it going to take for Apple to bring prices closer to reality?
Why buy a Lexus when you can buy a Kia to get you from A to B?
Why buy a Lexus when you can buy a Kia to get you from A to B?
Well, if the "Kia" has an 1.6GHz Intel i7-720QM Core i7 Processor and an NVidia GTX 260M with 1GB DDR3 VRAM, it must be a heck of a trip from A to B, don't you agree?
Well, if the "Kia" has an 1.6GHz Intel i7-720QM Core i7 Processor and an NVidia GTX 260M with 1GB DDR3 VRAM, it must be a heck of a trip from A to B, don't you agree?
No I probably wouldn't. A Pontiac GTO has more horesepower than most of the BMW 3 series but I haven't found one person who would say the GTO handles better.
A Mac is more than the sum of its parts and sometimes you just have to put away your spec sheet and revel in the tranquility of computing.
My mother has an HP with a triple core AMD processor yet it runs like crap compared to my "underpowered" Mac mini.
Make the best decision for your needs but compare the workflows with a keen eye. There is where the differences truly are.
My mother has an HP with a triple core AMD processor
Wow!
Your mother is rad!
My mum only has a Core2 Duo!
Care to post a link to "an HP with a triple core AMD processor"? I'm sure we're all very curious to see a beast like that
It would seem that the difficulty lies in your own lack of funds. The Kia/Lexus analogy was spot on.
PS: No analogies required.
No I probably wouldn't. A Pontiac GTO has more horesepower than most of the BMW 3 series but I haven't found one person who would say the GTO handles better.
A Mac is more than the sum of its parts and sometimes you just have to put away your spec sheet and revel in the tranquility of computing.
My mother has an HP with a triple core AMD processor yet it runs like crap compared to my "underpowered" Mac mini.
Make the best decision for your needs but compare the workflows with a keen eye. There is where the differences truly are.
I think this was the best comparison.
Comparing Apple to others is like comparing a high class car manufacturer to other medium to low style cars. MacBook Pro aluminum case laptops are like no other in the market and Apple has been shaking up things up for years, and they deserve all the merit.
However, (maybe I'm insisting too much in this point...) BMW and Mercedes supply their quality cars with very good engines even if they are not the most expensive models. Right now, buying some of these Mac laptops is equivalent to buying a BMW with all the quality fixtures and a Civic engine. I believe that they should provide 4GB as standard memory for all laptops and 250GB/320GB as standard disks, like they already do for the desktops.
Wow!
Your mother is rad!
My mum only has a Core2 Duo!
Care to post a link to "an HP with a triple core AMD processor"? I'm sure we're all very curious to see a beast like that
http://www.amazon.com/Pavilion-A6430.../dp/B001637T86
She bought hers from Costco with a 24" monitor for like $899. I gotta admit it was a pretty good deal but the triple core Phenom chips aren't all that fast. But then again my mother is fearless and will download a bunch of crap she doesn't need.
I think this was the best comparison.
Comparing Apple to others is like comparing a high class car manufacturer to other medium to low style cars. MacBook Pro aluminum case laptops are like no other in the market and Apple has been shaking up things up for years, and they deserve all the merit.
However, (maybe I'm insisting too much in this point...) BMW and Mercedes supply their quality cars with very good engines even if they are not the most expensive models. Right now, buying some of these Mac laptops is equivalent to buying a BMW with all the quality fixtures and a Civic engine. I believe that they should provide 4GB as standard memory for all laptops and 250GB/320GB as standard disks, like they already do for the desktops.
Well, if you insist on the car analogies:
Not every premium car comes with more horse power, and horse power is not necessarily the metric of how "good" an engine is. We also have to consider fuel efficiency, durability, how smoothly the power is delivered, etc. Interestingly, by these criteria, the Civic comes with quite a good engine. Moreover, given the realities of actual driving conditions, the hp arms race frequently becomes little more than a dick-waving contest, since those huge, gas guzzling engines are unlikely to ever do anything but remain a vague dream of autobahn mastery.
But more generally premium car manufacturers are selling a "driving experience": handling, smooth and accurate shifting, fit and finish, quality of materials, interior sound levels, styling, amenities, reliability, etc.
Another way to look at it would be to wonder why a given premium car manufacturer doesn't adopt "features" that cheap entry level, youth market cars offer, like bass heavy sound systems, flashy, multi-colored interior lighting, optional cladding, "sports" friendly interior configurations or multi-media inputs and outputs. As in "why would I pay for a Lexus when even a Scion gives me all this bad-ass rave ready shit?"
Well, if you insist on the car analogies:
Not every premium car comes with more horse power, and horse power is not necessarily the metric of how "good" an engine is. We also have to consider fuel efficiency, durability, how smoothly the power is delivered, etc. Interestingly, by these criteria, the Civic comes with quite a good engine. Moreover, given the realities of actual driving conditions, the hp arms race frequently becomes little more than a dick-waving contest, since those huge, gas guzzling engines are unlikely to ever do anything but remain a vague dream of autobahn mastery.
But more generally premium car manufacturers are selling a "driving experience": handling, smooth and accurate shifting, fit and finish, quality of materials, interior sound levels, styling, amenities, reliability, etc.
Another way to look at it would be to wonder why a given premium car manufacturer doesn't adopt "features" that cheap entry level, youth market cars offer, like bass heavy sound systems, flashy, multi-colored interior lighting, optional cladding, "sports" friendly interior configurations or multi-media inputs and outputs. As in "why would I pay for a Lexus when even a Scion gives me all this bad-ass rave ready shit?"
Ok, that was just an analogy, but I'm afraid that if we continue along these lines someone will try to pour gasoline into his/her laptop.
The point is: if you conduct some research on components prices, you will see that it wouldn't be much of an impact for Apple to add more to its base products. Of course, that's a well known old strategy where a manufacturer tries to "incentive" its customers to trade up by offering better features in more expensive models, even if those features cost virtually the same as the lower options.
I'm in a similar situation as the poster. I'm looking to replace my aging g4 powerbook. I disagree with the belaboured luxury car analogy. Apple prices its mac at luxury prices, but they are not luxury by any standard. Apple is not making hand made luxury furniture, hand bag, cars etc.......It's a computer. Under the hood the parts are the same as the other OEMs. It's this snobbish and elitist attitude that drives people away and does not serve apple well. Apple needs to get with reality. Apple apologists say apple makes loads of money doing what it does. I can't justify apple's pricing. They are serving old duo core technology at premium prices. While pc has moved on to quad core for less than $1000. I can afford to buy a mac. It comes down to my personal preference. Like when I bought my g4 powerbook, my next mac will be VERY HARD to swallow.
How many other vendors put powered Firewire on their computers?
How many other vendors have a Unibody laptop enclosure ?
How many other vendors are using LED across a majority of their lineup?
How many other vendors use slot load optical drives versus the std tray fare?
How many other vendors are shipping 7hr lithium polymer batteries?
No...a Mac is a luxury and it always has been.
Personally, I'm not a fan or Bose, nor am I hung up over looks, but if you want to run OSX legally, there isn't any other game in town, than what Apple gives you. I like OSX a lot, but I hate the baggage that comes along with it, and primarily see it as just another OS, rather than a lifestyle.
I find the MB pretty competitively priced, and their pricing has gotten a bit better, but I am not a fan of AIO's, and I've given up on Apple ever releasing the mythical xMac.
The question is how badly do you want OSX, and what do you plan on running with it?
No I probably wouldn't. A Pontiac GTO has more horesepower than most of the BMW 3 series but I haven't found one person who would say the GTO handles better.
The 3-series is a pig. It isn't the E36 anymore. The GTO (i.e. the Holden one) is actually lighter and more nimble even though it has a big V8 in the front. The G8 and Camaro are better yet, albeit the G8 is discontinued and the Camaro is ugly as sin.
The only valid car analogy is that buying a mac IS like buying a car with some prestige, even though it may be slower AND handle worse than a normal car. But nonetheless is looks better doing it and is more likely to get you laid.
(Well, I suppose getting laid is a stretch, but all the beautiful people do use macs. That's a fact, for better or for worse).
It's this snobbish and elitist attitude that drives people away and does not serve apple well.
As a shareholder since 2001, I heartily disagree. Apple has both sides of the spectrum: normal folks who want the prestige of a mac and developers who realize that it's the greatest dev box there is, period. Mac OS X is the best version of UNIX, ever.
Hehe, during your thinking, i have got my MacBook Aluminum Notebook for $999 bucks. It is better than all your listed three models imo.
Good suggestion!
Besides the 7 hour battery, what are the benefits of having the most recent MBP 13"?
I'm in a similar situation as the poster. I'm looking to replace my aging g4 powerbook. I disagree with the belaboured luxury car analogy. Apple prices its mac at luxury prices, but they are not luxury by any standard. Apple is not making hand made luxury furniture, hand bag, cars etc.......It's a computer. Under the hood the parts are the same as the other OEMs. It's this snobbish and elitist attitude that drives people away and does not serve apple well. Apple needs to get with reality. Apple apologists say apple makes loads of money doing what it does. I can't justify apple's pricing. They are serving old duo core technology at premium prices. While pc has moved on to quad core for less than $1000. I can afford to buy a mac. It comes down to my personal preference. Like when I bought my g4 powerbook, my next mac will be VERY HARD to swallow.
Go ahead an take a look around the web for head to head comparisons of what Apple is charging for its machines and what comparable machines cost from other vendors. Find me an all in one with the current iMac's specs and tell me that Apple's pricing is grossly inflated. Find me a Windows laptop with the MacBook's specs and talk about the Apple tax.
As always, Apple competes on the machines they actually make. Of course, PC manufactures make much cheaper machines, but they achieve their costs by being..... cheaper.
When you say that PCs have moved on to quad core for less than a $1000, you're describing a tower with a drop in part that has nothing to do with the iMac, so it's a pretty fundamentally dishonest comparison. If you don't want an all in one you should say that, instead of pretending that iMacs are overpriced for what they are. They aren't.
If you want a cheaper PC, by all means, get that-- it sounds like you're making excuses to do so, and you don't have to make excuses for your preferences. And you certainly don't have to indulge in gratuitous smears on "Apple elitists and apologists" just because you want something else. Just go get it, what do you care?
Apple is the Bose of computers, great designs, some really well thought out engineering, but you're paying a premium for the name and looks, even though you would likely get more raw power somewhere else.
Personally, I'm not a fan or Bose, nor am I hung up over looks, but if you want to run OSX legally, there isn't any other game in town, than what Apple gives you. I like OSX a lot, but I hate the baggage that comes along with it, and primarily see it as just another OS, rather than a lifestyle.
I find the MB pretty competitively priced, and their pricing has gotten a bit better, but I am not a fan of AIO's, and I've given up on Apple ever releasing the mythical xMac.
The question is how badly do you want OSX, and what do you plan on running with it?
The Bose analogy is strained, at best. The application of style to audio equipment doesn't mean much if it doesn't work better. For audio equipment, that would involve sounding better and being easier to use, although most audio equipment is pretty easy to use in the first place, so that's not much of an advantage.
For computers, "working better" entails an all over experience involving an extremely complex coordination of hardware and software, which is where Apple excels. And, as I say above, the perception that you're simply paying for "style" is just not true.
It now has an awesome, all-day battery; a bright, energy-sipping screen; and a backlit keyboard. Firewire is back, and there’s an indispensible SD Card slot. For a computer of this quality and power, that’s a steal
Why buy a Lexus when you can buy a Kia to get you from A to B?
Because
1. The Lexus (Mac) has a better performance record
2. It has better support, at no extra charge, and can be extended for a price
3. It even has a better warranty, just in case
4. It comes with more "options" (software) as standard
5. It looks cool
6. It will last longer
7. You really want one
I just read an article about installing osx on a dell mini 10v netbook. Sure it wont run that smooth but could be the solution for you.,
If I wanted a PC, I wouldn't be discussing here. Once more... again... it is about the right product for the right price, considering the components market and a fair expectation for profit.
I'm giving serious thought about the new MacBook (portability) or iMac (more power). I don't have to buy it right now, so I will wait until around November 20th for possible new MacBook Pro's (the current ones are too weak). I thought there wouldn't be any new models or upgrades this year, but I decided to wait a little more after Apple corrected an article about the speculation: "Update: Interesting, after reading this, Apple called and said that the actual quote is 'The holiday lineup is set."
One question I have: the aluminum case doesn't seem very resistant, it doesn't seem thick enough. Can someone give his/her impressions?