Here's an idea. Instead of a lawsuit why doesn't AT&T actually puts some money into upgrading its network. If it wasn't crap, this ad wouldn't exist and your customers wouldn't be unhappy.
They spent over $11 billion last year upgrading their network. If the iPhone didn't stress AT&T's 3G services far more than all of Verizon's phones put together, there couldn't be so much of a problem. I'm willing to bet that Verizon doesn't have much more capacity than AT&T, but they have much less use of the data services. We know that's true from the stats published.
It's very likely that if the iPhone ended up on Verizon's network instead, we'd be complaining about them too.
Yeah. If I implored a blogger to learn something useful about the cost of infrastructure instead of posting bullshit on AI, he would bark STFU in response rather than follow my advice, wouldn't he?
As you post BS on AI, you should take your own advice.
AT&T's lawsuit against Verizon has absolutely no ground. There is nothing wrong with Verizon's depiction of AT&T's 3G coverage area (which is true), and Verizon quite clearly labels the map as such. It's funny that AT&T is complaining that Verizon is representing their non-3G areas as "blank spots." Guess what! If, on a 3G coverage map, an area does not have 3G coverage, it's a 3G blank spot! I don't know what people over at AT&T are smoking. Maybe instead of spending money to bring a lawsuit against Verizon (for pointing out the obviously), they should be using said money to beef up their 3G infrastructure.
AT&T's lawsuit against Verizon has absolutely no ground. There is nothing wrong with Verizon's depiction of AT&T's 3G coverage area (which is true), and Verizon quite clearly labels the map as such. It's funny that AT&T is complaining that Verizon is representing their non-3G areas as "blank spots." Guess what! If, on a 3G coverage map, an area does not have 3G coverage, it's a 3G blank spot! I don't know what people over at AT&T are smoking. Maybe instead of spending money to bring a lawsuit against Verizon (for pointing out the obviously), they should be using said money to beef up their 3G infrastructure.
You're obviously not reading the post here that explain this.
1947: The first Transistor. This was one of the biggest inventions of the 20th century. This is the foundation of every single electronics device.
1954: The first (usable) modern Solar Cell.
1960: The first Communications Satellites.
1969: UNIX and the foundation of the Internet.
1969 The CCD (Charge-Coupled Device that transfers light into electric signals) Every one of the digital images you ? and millions of others ? take every day is made possible thanks to work done by two Bell Labs researchers in the late 1960s. Their ground-breaking work was recently recognized with the Nobel Prize in Physics.
1983: Cell Phones and the Cell Phone Network.
1983: C (1972) and C++. You may not know this, but just about every digital device runs some form of C++ generated code.
1989: HDTV Technology?..and first demonstration to the FCC.
1997: a2b secure digital transmission of Music (compression, authorization)
since AT&T bought Cingular's wireless network, wouldn't all the above accomplishments be irrelevant? I mean, At&T didn't merge their own wireless network with Cingular did they? They just bought Cingular, then wait till 60 days before the iphone hit the streets and rebranded Cingular as At&T Wireless, right?
Also, as someone else stated back on page 2 of this threat, Verizon and it's ad agency is taking advantage of the fact that most people will look at the maps and form an opinion based on the maps, nothing else... you can clam that Verizon can't help that, but they know exactly what they are doing. if you knew the beating Verizon was taking in it's Cable TV and Fios divisions, you'd understand why they are using dirty tricks to keep it's one profitable interest a float
since AT&T bought Cingular's wireless network, wouldn't all the above accomplishments be irrelevant? I mean, At&T didn't merge their own wireless network with Cingular did they? They just bought Cingular, then wait till 60 days before the iphone hit the streets and rebranded Cingular as At&T Wireless, right?
Also, as someone else stated back on page 2 of this threat, Verizon and it's ad agency is taking advantage of the fact that most people will look at the maps and form an opinion based on the maps, nothing else... you can clam that Verizon can't help that, but they know exactly what they are doing. if you knew the beating Verizon was taking in it's Cable TV and Fios divisions, you'd understand why they are using dirty tricks to keep it's one profitable interest a float
not saying it right, it's just what is.
btw- very educational thread
Cingular actually bought AT&T, and named the resulting company AT&T to have a connection with the better known name.
The PDF I linked to explains very clearly that EDGE can technically be defined as 3G. I think AT&T is SOL as they don?t list it as such, but that is not your argument. This Wikipage may be easier to absorb?
What you get out of a service doesn?t define the generation it?s classified as. The classification come from a standards body. Ultimately they are arbitrary but they are defined.
EDGE has a maximum theoretical throughput of 473.6Kbps. That is well past the minimum given for AT&T?s 3G. Note that AT&T?s 3G has the future potential to have 84.4Mbps with Evolved HSPA. That isn?t even into the 3GPP LTE 4G yet.
There is this site I came across. AT&T will likely use this as a proof that they thing EDGE is 3G, if that is the path they wish to take with this. If so, I don?t think they should have used 3G to refer to their UMTS network. Again, I think that is why they are screwed. Note: this page?s text looks to have been carried over verbatim from the Cingular days.
PS: It?s not the same as calling dial-up the same as DSL/Cable/T1. Those are distinct technologies with distinct names. the "xG? nomanclature refers to Generation and it?s not static. 3GPP defined EDGE as 3G. That is a fact.
PPS: Expect for this type discussion, you?ll never see me express EDGE as 3G.
Well then AT&T would have to explain why their training manuals dont refer to Edge as 3G, why their internal MTi Map tools (shows where their towers are/coverage quality indepth etc) show a similar 3G datamap to Verizons and why AT&Ts speed breakdowns put Edge at thart 50-100 ballpark i referenced.
I mean, AT&T could win I suppose if they prove that Edge is technically a 3rd generation technology, but then they would have to explain why their 3rd G is significantly slower than all other networks (theoretical speeds are so worthless) and AT&T would have to essentially admit to being almost completely incompetent with regards to their training documents, internal tools and marketting.
Here's an idea. Instead of a lawsuit why doesn't AT&T actually puts some money into upgrading its network. If it wasn't crap, this ad wouldn't exist and your customers wouldn't be unhappy.
Because this is the program that AT&T uses to run its business:
----
ATT V.3.534 Running Mobility
----
User: CEO
Action:
A. Fix Network
B. Play with a slinky for awhile
C. Sue Verizon
.... see they clearly forgot an option D, to do all of the above. But seriously, thats a false choice, Im sure AT&T has the resources to sue and do plenty of other things at once.
Well then AT&T would have to explain why their training manuals dont refer to Edge as 3G, why their internal MTi Map tools (shows where their towers are/coverage quality indepth etc) show a similar 3G datamap to Verizons and why AT&Ts speed breakdowns put Edge at thart 50-100 ballpark i referenced.
I mean, AT&T could win I suppose if they prove that Edge is technically a 3rd generation technology, but then they would have to explain why their 3rd G is significantly slower than all other networks (theoretical speeds are so worthless) and AT&T would have to essentially admit to being almost completely incompetent with regards to their training documents, internal tools and marketting.
I don?t think AT&T has a chance in hell because they choose from the start not to refer to EDGE as 3G in any way. The earlier point was to back up the claim that 3GPP created EDGE as a 3rd generation technology. AT&T has no leg to stand on here, unless they can somehow prove that it?s too obscure for the viewer, despite very clear statements by Verizon that they are comparing 3G coverage.
As an iPhone owner who also has a Verizon phone (family share plan so that my wife as a physician can have access to a reliable calling network) in a major metropolitan area (L.A.), this add "feels" accurate even if not technically so. I travel every week for work up and down the west coast as well as to the east coast and invariably have coverage issues with my iPhone but not with my Verizon cheapo LG. In fact, the only place where I've experienced the "full potential" of the iPhone was while traveling in Europe (even remote, rural areas).
Would love to hear other's experiences but my gestalt is that this ad is "spot on" and that AT&T's network is measurably inferior (which is really the point of the ad, no?)
You're obviously not reading the post here that explain this.
Sorry, but sometimes my life demands other things than reading through pages of comments. My post was a direct comment on the article, not on the commentaries thereafter.
Well dang, Verizon must not be too worried about their ad claims and this lawsuit because there are three new ads that all keep hitting the iPhone and most specifically the AT&T network. The red/blue motif is especially well played with the "Blue Christmas" bit.
The first one is cute for nostalgia but in my mind the last one is most effective because it reminds people about traveling in bad weather while thinking about a shoddy network. Justified or not it understands what consumers are going to be thinking about. All three are very well done in my opinion.
Sorry, but sometimes my life demands other things than reading through pages of comments. My post was a direct comment on the article, not on the commentaries thereafter.
Then that's your loss. You missed out on answer that you could have had.
Comments
Here's an idea. Instead of a lawsuit why doesn't AT&T actually puts some money into upgrading its network. If it wasn't crap, this ad wouldn't exist and your customers wouldn't be unhappy.
They spent over $11 billion last year upgrading their network. If the iPhone didn't stress AT&T's 3G services far more than all of Verizon's phones put together, there couldn't be so much of a problem. I'm willing to bet that Verizon doesn't have much more capacity than AT&T, but they have much less use of the data services. We know that's true from the stats published.
It's very likely that if the iPhone ended up on Verizon's network instead, we'd be complaining about them too.
Yeah. If I implored a blogger to learn something useful about the cost of infrastructure instead of posting bullshit on AI, he would bark STFU in response rather than follow my advice, wouldn't he?
As you post BS on AI, you should take your own advice.
AT&T's lawsuit against Verizon has absolutely no ground. There is nothing wrong with Verizon's depiction of AT&T's 3G coverage area (which is true), and Verizon quite clearly labels the map as such. It's funny that AT&T is complaining that Verizon is representing their non-3G areas as "blank spots." Guess what! If, on a 3G coverage map, an area does not have 3G coverage, it's a 3G blank spot! I don't know what people over at AT&T are smoking. Maybe instead of spending money to bring a lawsuit against Verizon (for pointing out the obviously), they should be using said money to beef up their 3G infrastructure.
You're obviously not reading the post here that explain this.
I look forward to a Verizon iPhone.
Some highlights:
1876: The first telephone.
1924: The first Electrical Sound Recordings.
1926: The first Sound in Motion Pictures.
1939: The first Digital Computer.
1946: The first Mobile Call.
1947: The first Transistor. This was one of the biggest inventions of the 20th century. This is the foundation of every single electronics device.
1954: The first (usable) modern Solar Cell.
1960: The first Communications Satellites.
1969: UNIX and the foundation of the Internet.
1969 The CCD (Charge-Coupled Device that transfers light into electric signals) Every one of the digital images you ? and millions of others ? take every day is made possible thanks to work done by two Bell Labs researchers in the late 1960s. Their ground-breaking work was recently recognized with the Nobel Prize in Physics.
1983: Cell Phones and the Cell Phone Network.
1983: C (1972) and C++. You may not know this, but just about every digital device runs some form of C++ generated code.
1989: HDTV Technology?..and first demonstration to the FCC.
1997: a2b secure digital transmission of Music (compression, authorization)
since AT&T bought Cingular's wireless network, wouldn't all the above accomplishments be irrelevant? I mean, At&T didn't merge their own wireless network with Cingular did they? They just bought Cingular, then wait till 60 days before the iphone hit the streets and rebranded Cingular as At&T Wireless, right?
Also, as someone else stated back on page 2 of this threat, Verizon and it's ad agency is taking advantage of the fact that most people will look at the maps and form an opinion based on the maps, nothing else... you can clam that Verizon can't help that, but they know exactly what they are doing. if you knew the beating Verizon was taking in it's Cable TV and Fios divisions, you'd understand why they are using dirty tricks to keep it's one profitable interest a float
not saying it right, it's just what is.
btw- very educational thread
since AT&T bought Cingular's wireless network, wouldn't all the above accomplishments be irrelevant? I mean, At&T didn't merge their own wireless network with Cingular did they? They just bought Cingular, then wait till 60 days before the iphone hit the streets and rebranded Cingular as At&T Wireless, right?
Also, as someone else stated back on page 2 of this threat, Verizon and it's ad agency is taking advantage of the fact that most people will look at the maps and form an opinion based on the maps, nothing else... you can clam that Verizon can't help that, but they know exactly what they are doing. if you knew the beating Verizon was taking in it's Cable TV and Fios divisions, you'd understand why they are using dirty tricks to keep it's one profitable interest a float
not saying it right, it's just what is.
btw- very educational thread
Cingular actually bought AT&T, and named the resulting company AT&T to have a connection with the better known name.
The PDF I linked to explains very clearly that EDGE can technically be defined as 3G. I think AT&T is SOL as they don?t list it as such, but that is not your argument. This Wikipage may be easier to absorb?What you get out of a service doesn?t define the generation it?s classified as. The classification come from a standards body. Ultimately they are arbitrary but they are defined.
EDGE has a maximum theoretical throughput of 473.6Kbps. That is well past the minimum given for AT&T?s 3G. Note that AT&T?s 3G has the future potential to have 84.4Mbps with Evolved HSPA. That isn?t even into the 3GPP LTE 4G yet.
There is this site I came across. AT&T will likely use this as a proof that they thing EDGE is 3G, if that is the path they wish to take with this. If so, I don?t think they should have used 3G to refer to their UMTS network. Again, I think that is why they are screwed. Note: this page?s text looks to have been carried over verbatim from the Cingular days. PS: It?s not the same as calling dial-up the same as DSL/Cable/T1. Those are distinct technologies with distinct names. the "xG? nomanclature refers to Generation and it?s not static. 3GPP defined EDGE as 3G. That is a fact.
PPS: Expect for this type discussion, you?ll never see me express EDGE as 3G.
Well then AT&T would have to explain why their training manuals dont refer to Edge as 3G, why their internal MTi Map tools (shows where their towers are/coverage quality indepth etc) show a similar 3G datamap to Verizons and why AT&Ts speed breakdowns put Edge at thart 50-100 ballpark i referenced.
I mean, AT&T could win I suppose if they prove that Edge is technically a 3rd generation technology, but then they would have to explain why their 3rd G is significantly slower than all other networks (theoretical speeds are so worthless) and AT&T would have to essentially admit to being almost completely incompetent with regards to their training documents, internal tools and marketting.
Here's an idea. Instead of a lawsuit why doesn't AT&T actually puts some money into upgrading its network. If it wasn't crap, this ad wouldn't exist and your customers wouldn't be unhappy.
Because this is the program that AT&T uses to run its business:
----
ATT V.3.534 Running Mobility
----
User: CEO
Action:
A. Fix Network
B. Play with a slinky for awhile
C. Sue Verizon
.... see they clearly forgot an option D, to do all of the above. But seriously, thats a false choice, Im sure AT&T has the resources to sue and do plenty of other things at once.
Well then AT&T would have to explain why their training manuals dont refer to Edge as 3G, why their internal MTi Map tools (shows where their towers are/coverage quality indepth etc) show a similar 3G datamap to Verizons and why AT&Ts speed breakdowns put Edge at thart 50-100 ballpark i referenced.
I mean, AT&T could win I suppose if they prove that Edge is technically a 3rd generation technology, but then they would have to explain why their 3rd G is significantly slower than all other networks (theoretical speeds are so worthless) and AT&T would have to essentially admit to being almost completely incompetent with regards to their training documents, internal tools and marketting.
I don?t think AT&T has a chance in hell because they choose from the start not to refer to EDGE as 3G in any way. The earlier point was to back up the claim that 3GPP created EDGE as a 3rd generation technology. AT&T has no leg to stand on here, unless they can somehow prove that it?s too obscure for the viewer, despite very clear statements by Verizon that they are comparing 3G coverage.
Because this is the program that AT&T uses to run its business:
----
ATT V.3.534 Running Mobility
----
User: CEO
Action:
A. Issue press release of planned network upgrades
B. Play with a slinky for awhile
C. Sue Verizon
Fixed it!
Would love to hear other's experiences but my gestalt is that this ad is "spot on" and that AT&T's network is measurably inferior (which is really the point of the ad, no?)
You're obviously not reading the post here that explain this.
Sorry, but sometimes my life demands other things than reading through pages of comments. My post was a direct comment on the article, not on the commentaries thereafter.
Misfit Toys
Naughty/Nice
Blue Christmas
The first one is cute for nostalgia but in my mind the last one is most effective because it reminds people about traveling in bad weather while thinking about a shoddy network. Justified or not it understands what consumers are going to be thinking about. All three are very well done in my opinion.
Sorry, but sometimes my life demands other things than reading through pages of comments. My post was a direct comment on the article, not on the commentaries thereafter.
Then that's your loss. You missed out on answer that you could have had.