Verizon is in trouble. They have no plan to expand their current 3G network...and 4G is many years away. Their 3G is capped at 1.4MB.....while AT&T is already at 3MB and going to 7MB then 14MB.
I predict we will see the DROID Users start complaining about their service real soon.
AT&T needs to create some nifty commercials to relay this to the public.
While AT&T has a higher top speed, study after study shows that its top speed is rarely reached and on average Verizon kills AT&T for both voice and data coverage.
If the iPhone does come to Verizon Wireless I pray Apple can keep Verizon Wireless from butchering it's software like they do with so many of their phones.
Verizon hasn't touched the Droid phone in any way and they won't touch the iPhone once they get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Carrier wars?
LOL. They should know by now that the hardware makes your carrier. AT&T is proof. You can have a lousy carrier, and that will present some natural limitations, but if you've got the device(s) everyone wants, you'll do fine. Obviously, there's a limit to what people will put up with, but as we've seen, they're willing to put up with a lot.
I have a Droid coming and will stay with it until next year when Verizon gets the iPhone. I thought about switching to AT&T but why switch and then have to get another iPhone with LTE and then switch back to Verizon. Makes more sense to just stay put with a Droid and get the iPhone later.
Apple know that there is a huge pent up demand for iPhones on the non GSM carriers that they don't want to loose. Phones like the Droid will fill that gap if Apple does not act quickly. This is why I'm fairly sure that Apple will do a true world phone for the next release.
Please don't try and tell me that Apple will never take the time to engineer a CDMA phone. Now that Qualcomm has a world chip set that does EVERYTHING including LTE Apple can do CDMA with little engineering effort.
Complete BS on the part of AI. Really calls into question AI's credibility and motivation. Clearly an article paid for by AT&T.
EDGE is no where near as fast as EVDO. Theoretical whatever. In real life EDGE gets 100-150kbps. EVDO even its slowest form gets 400kbit-1mbit.
Verizon is very fair in showing its 3G coverage is 5x ATT.
AT&T hasn't doing anything noticeable to improve 3G coverage. And even its edge coverage is poor in many places.
Its embarrassing that AT&T can claim HSDPA 7.2mbit rollout when only going to a few cities when almost all their network is stuck at glacially slow EDGE.
I'm glad that Verizon is lighting a fire under AT&T. AT&T should stop denying there's a problem and FIX IT! They've had the iPhone for almost 3 years. They knew this was coming. Compare the 3G coverage map on AT&T to two years ago. There's almost no different. AT&T is simply not improving their network fast enough. And they ignore customers who complain about poor reception.
Verizon... can you hear me now... really has done a good job of filling in any dead spots and covering the country coast to coast.
Complete BS on the part of AI. Really calls into question AI's credibility and motivation. Clearly an article paid for by AT&T.
EDGE is no where near as fast as EVDO. Theoretical whatever. In real life EDGE gets 100-150kbps. EVDO even its slowest form gets 400kbit-1mbit.
Verizon is very fair in showing its 3G coverage is 5x ATT.
AT&T hasn't doing anything noticeable to improve 3G coverage. And even its edge coverage is poor in many places.
Its embarrassing that AT&T can claim HSDPA 7.2mbit rollout when only going to a few cities when almost all their network is stuck at glacially slow EDGE.
I'm glad that Verizon is lighting a fire under AT&T. AT&T should stop denying there's a problem and FIX IT! They've had the iPhone for almost 3 years. They knew this was coming. Compare the 3G coverage map on AT&T to two years ago. There's almost no different. AT&T is simply not improving their network fast enough. And they ignore customers who complain about poor reception.
Verizon... can you hear me now... really has done a good job of filling in any dead spots and covering the country coast to coast.
You hit the nail on the head. Why does AT&T even need defending on APPLEinsider?
That's a puzzling question, considering that ATT is the only network that carries the APPLE iPhone. Surely, anything that can affect the sole network for this product for better or worse is legitimate AI news? (At least, it is for me). No different from AI covering Intel or Microsoft over, say, something that affects a Mac-related Intel chip or Office for Mac.
tell me if verizon had the iphone do you think they could handle the unprecedented data volume?
nobody in their wildest dreams (even SJ) thought this would explode like it did, even the great google had to check their data after a 50 times increase in mobile traffic
we have witnessed a huge paradigm shift iphone is riding this wave well,
actually verizon couldn't handle to load even if only a few % were on their networks
competition will force some balance, see verizon has crippled its phones in the past to avoid the network strain
I think that ATT needs to take a deep breath, hunker down, tune out the noise, and go about the business of investing in improving the quality and coverage of their network, and talk about that. Period.
Thank you. The lack of comprehension around here and the entire tech world when it comes to ADVERTISING is absolutely ridiculous. That, and half the people who create user names on forums/post on said forums, are around the age of the 14, so the effects of advertising can be understood.
Why AI is such a hapless victim of marketing, I can't begin to explain....
You take yourself and this forum way too seriously....
While AT&T has a higher top speed, study after study shows that its top speed is rarely reached and on average Verizon kills AT&T for both voice and data coverage.
Also, don't confuse MB & Mb. 1MB = 8 Mb.
Thanks for the clarification.
OK...so even if top speed is rarely reached, Verizon's top speed is capped at 1.4Mb....while in theory, if you have a good signal, AT&T's is at 3.2Mb....going to 7.2Mb and then 14Mb. They just need more towers...which is what they are installing.
6. I don't drink coffee, but Starbucks chose AT&T. More testimony.
7. I've heard of AT&T hot spots. I haven't heard of Verizon hotspots.
Um, Apple went to Verizon first but Verizon didn't want to play their game.
What you don't know is that Apple is creating that CDMA universal phone for next year and is pretty much begging Verizon to take it.
The iPhone can only go so far as an AT&T exclusive and AT&T is going to be even further behind the times next year when Verizon begins rolling out 4G.
AT&T has delayed their 4G rollout to 2011 or later. Verizon has already tested 4G and plans to roll it out simultaneously in about 30 or more markets next year. All those markets will be available on rollout day and their will be Android phones ready and able to handle 4G.
And then Verizon will be able to hammer AT&T for its lack of 4G coverage which they will slowly begin rolling out market by market in 2011 when Verizon will have expanded its coverage even further.
The truth is that Verizon has a much better infrastructure and backbone than AT&T and any other carrier. And that quick 4G rollout is whythey haven't further expanded 3G as AT&T has slowly been doing.
When 4G hits Verizon will be able to offer the best global plans due to Vodafone being a major stake holder in Verizon Wireless.
As for iPhone users on AT&T's network, I know several and all complain about how slow the network is and how the iPhones don't work half the time, or so it seems.
If AT&T were so wonderful then why do they even make a CDMA phone? It also doesn't make sense with the 4G rollout unless Apple is intentionally crippling the iPhone to make sure their AT&T version of the phone doesn't get hammered.
Because if Verizon offered a 4G iPhone next year then all the Apple fanboys would ditch AT&T at light speed and head straight to VZW if AT&T was stuck with 2.5G mostly with a bit of 3G thrown in.
But Verizon will have a 4G Droid next year with no slider keyboard, just the touchscreen. They will have that and a couple of other 4G phones ready to go as they put LTE on top of their CDMA network.
And, for those that want to know, Apple has twice tried to get VZW to take the iPhone in the past. VZW was the first company they asked to carry the iPhone exclusively but Verizon had no interest in Apple's demands. Then they were asked to be the second carrier before the original AT&T exclusivity deal was extended but Apple had the same demands.
What's going to happen is either Apple will be forced to dump its demands or they'll have to face having their phone on a terribly backwards network next year compared to Verizon's LTE network that should be in over 50 markets by the end of 2010 when AT&T begins merely field testing 4G.
By next year the iPhone will be left in the dust unless Apple undermines AT&T and releases a 4G phone for VZW. That actually could be the reason for the CDMA chip - to support the larger VZW network that has the best overall coverage in the country. But if Verizon gets a 4G iPhone (and they might try for their own exclusivity deal on the 4G version) then I expect the guy who wrote this article to suddenly sing Verizon's praises and talk about how bad AT&T was.
While AT&T has a higher top speed, study after study shows that its top speed is rarely reached and on average Verizon kills AT&T for both voice and data coverage.
Also, don't confuse MB & Mb. 1MB = 8 Mb.
Actually, to be fair, the studies I've seen show that coverage is a bit more spotty on AT&T, but it's faster on average than Verizon.
If you live in or near a city, chances are you're better served by AT&T with a smartphone. If your out in the boonies, you're probably better served with Verizon.
Sorry, I'm confused... are we saying: Hey, yeah, AT&T is totally awful, but guess what, Verizon isn't actually much better. Or are we saying Actually, AT&T rocks?
I am NYC based and NYC is not representative of the rest of the country of course, but every New Yorker knows that Verizon basically craps all over every other carrier in the city, reliability wise, speed wise and coverage wide. I don't know anyone on Verizon who gets dropped calls, or waits 30 mins for a text message (unless it's from an iPhone) or can't get their email because the 'full bar' signal actually isn't transmitting any data.
Anyone living outside of NY (or San Fransisco from what I can gather) simply cannot understand how piss-poor AT&T's service is here... it's like being back in 1996 - calls won't connect, when they do they're dropped, I can barely read a 3 line email on my .me account without getting a massive lag... uploading a photo to Facebook... forget it!
Arguing the toss over coverage in Nevada (with all due respect) is nonsense, and just another anecdotal comment, I ran speedtest against a friend who just got a Droid phone in Park Slope Brooklyn (basically Affluent-Ville) - I got 0.35 mbit/sec and he got 2.1 mbit/sec (download), I got 0.10 upload and he got 0.7
Please AI, don't defend AT&T, they need their backsides kicking.
Sorry, I'm confused... are we saying: Hey, yeah, AT&T is totally awful, but guess what, Verizon isn't actually much better. Or are we saying Actually, AT&T rocks?
I am NYC based and NYC is not representative of the rest of the country of course, but every New Yorker knows that Verizon basically craps all over every other carrier in the city, reliability wise, speed wise and coverage wide. I don't know anyone on Verizon who gets dropped calls, or waits 30 mins for a text message (unless it's from an iPhone) or can't get their email because the 'full bar' signal actually isn't transmitting any data.
Anyone living outside of NY (or San Fransisco from what I can gather) simply cannot understand how piss-poor AT&T's service is here... it's like being back in 1996 - calls won't connect, when they do they're dropped, I can barely read a 3 line email on my .me account without getting a massive lag... uploading a photo to Facebook... forget it!
Arguing the toss over coverage in Nevada (with all due respect) is nonsense, and just another anecdotal comment, I ran speedtest against a friend who just got a Droid phone in Park Slope Brooklyn (basically Affluent-Ville) - I got 0.35 mbit/sec and he got 2.1 mbit/sec (download), I got 0.10 upload and he got 0.7
Please AI, don't defend AT&T, they need their backsides kicking.
I don't think anyone has said AT&T rocks. That would be hard to say about any cell company. Other than SF and New York troublespots, I think the average user doesn't notice any issues. Their not great, but their not as crappy as being painted either, unless you happen to live near those dead zones anyway
I'm sorry, but to call shenanigans on Verizon because the AT&T 2.5G ideal speeds "approach" the Verizon 3G typical speeds is ridiculous.
Speaking of "technically accurate but grossly misleading", AT&T has no issue singling out 3G when they advertise that they have the "fastest 3G" network. So I have no issue with Verizon singling out 3G when advertising their coverage area.
AT&T is suing because they have no other argument. The AT&T 2.5G covers less area at slower speeds than the Verizon 3G network. Yes, AT&T 3G is faster, if you're in the right area and can maintain a connection. That's not exactly good ad material.
The AT&T "our network is good enough" mentality has been criticized by iPhone users and bloggers since day one. Now that Verizon is joining that song, it's funny to see AI stepping up to defend AT&T's honor. Especially by using the same twisted and open-to-interpretation metrics that the entire wireless industry is notorious for.
Comments
Verizon is in trouble. They have no plan to expand their current 3G network...and 4G is many years away. Their 3G is capped at 1.4MB.....while AT&T is already at 3MB and going to 7MB then 14MB.
I predict we will see the DROID Users start complaining about their service real soon.
AT&T needs to create some nifty commercials to relay this to the public.
While AT&T has a higher top speed, study after study shows that its top speed is rarely reached and on average Verizon kills AT&T for both voice and data coverage.
Also, don't confuse MB & Mb. 1MB = 8 Mb.
If the iPhone does come to Verizon Wireless I pray Apple can keep Verizon Wireless from butchering it's software like they do with so many of their phones.
Verizon hasn't touched the Droid phone in any way and they won't touch the iPhone once they get it.
Carrier wars?
LOL. They should know by now that the hardware makes your carrier. AT&T is proof. You can have a lousy carrier, and that will present some natural limitations, but if you've got the device(s) everyone wants, you'll do fine. Obviously, there's a limit to what people will put up with, but as we've seen, they're willing to put up with a lot.
I have a Droid coming and will stay with it until next year when Verizon gets the iPhone. I thought about switching to AT&T but why switch and then have to get another iPhone with LTE and then switch back to Verizon. Makes more sense to just stay put with a Droid and get the iPhone later.
Apple know that there is a huge pent up demand for iPhones on the non GSM carriers that they don't want to loose. Phones like the Droid will fill that gap if Apple does not act quickly. This is why I'm fairly sure that Apple will do a true world phone for the next release.
Please don't try and tell me that Apple will never take the time to engineer a CDMA phone. Now that Qualcomm has a world chip set that does EVERYTHING including LTE Apple can do CDMA with little engineering effort.
Can anyone comment on the actual bottleneck that AT&T is technically experiencing?
Is it:
* The number of total subscribers connected to a tower simultaneously, on a call or not?
* The number of active subscribers per tower, since the connection becomes active on data access which is frequent?
* RF spectrum in large cities?
* The total bandwidth of data per call?
* The total bandwidth of data across the mobile tower backhaul?
* ECHELON?
EDGE is no where near as fast as EVDO. Theoretical whatever. In real life EDGE gets 100-150kbps. EVDO even its slowest form gets 400kbit-1mbit.
Verizon is very fair in showing its 3G coverage is 5x ATT.
AT&T hasn't doing anything noticeable to improve 3G coverage. And even its edge coverage is poor in many places.
Its embarrassing that AT&T can claim HSDPA 7.2mbit rollout when only going to a few cities when almost all their network is stuck at glacially slow EDGE.
I'm glad that Verizon is lighting a fire under AT&T. AT&T should stop denying there's a problem and FIX IT! They've had the iPhone for almost 3 years. They knew this was coming. Compare the 3G coverage map on AT&T to two years ago. There's almost no different. AT&T is simply not improving their network fast enough. And they ignore customers who complain about poor reception.
Verizon... can you hear me now... really has done a good job of filling in any dead spots and covering the country coast to coast.
Complete BS on the part of AI. Really calls into question AI's credibility and motivation. Clearly an article paid for by AT&T.
EDGE is no where near as fast as EVDO. Theoretical whatever. In real life EDGE gets 100-150kbps. EVDO even its slowest form gets 400kbit-1mbit.
Verizon is very fair in showing its 3G coverage is 5x ATT.
AT&T hasn't doing anything noticeable to improve 3G coverage. And even its edge coverage is poor in many places.
Its embarrassing that AT&T can claim HSDPA 7.2mbit rollout when only going to a few cities when almost all their network is stuck at glacially slow EDGE.
I'm glad that Verizon is lighting a fire under AT&T. AT&T should stop denying there's a problem and FIX IT! They've had the iPhone for almost 3 years. They knew this was coming. Compare the 3G coverage map on AT&T to two years ago. There's almost no different. AT&T is simply not improving their network fast enough. And they ignore customers who complain about poor reception.
Verizon... can you hear me now... really has done a good job of filling in any dead spots and covering the country coast to coast.
See my post above.
You hit the nail on the head. Why does AT&T even need defending on APPLEinsider?
That's a puzzling question, considering that ATT is the only network that carries the APPLE iPhone. Surely, anything that can affect the sole network for this product for better or worse is legitimate AI news? (At least, it is for me). No different from AI covering Intel or Microsoft over, say, something that affects a Mac-related Intel chip or Office for Mac.
You're making too big a deal of it.
nobody in their wildest dreams (even SJ) thought this would explode like it did, even the great google had to check their data after a 50 times increase in mobile traffic
we have witnessed a huge paradigm shift iphone is riding this wave well,
actually verizon couldn't handle to load even if only a few % were on their networks
competition will force some balance, see verizon has crippled its phones in the past to avoid the network strain
You hit the nail on the head. Why does AT&T even need defending on APPLEinsider?
So true.
Thank you. The lack of comprehension around here and the entire tech world when it comes to ADVERTISING is absolutely ridiculous. That, and half the people who create user names on forums/post on said forums, are around the age of the 14, so the effects of advertising can be understood.
Why AI is such a hapless victim of marketing, I can't begin to explain....
You take yourself and this forum way too seriously....
While AT&T has a higher top speed, study after study shows that its top speed is rarely reached and on average Verizon kills AT&T for both voice and data coverage.
Also, don't confuse MB & Mb. 1MB = 8 Mb.
Thanks for the clarification.
OK...so even if top speed is rarely reached, Verizon's top speed is capped at 1.4Mb....while in theory, if you have a good signal, AT&T's is at 3.2Mb....going to 7.2Mb and then 14Mb. They just need more towers...which is what they are installing.
5. Apple chose AT&T. That's testimony in itself.
6. I don't drink coffee, but Starbucks chose AT&T. More testimony.
7. I've heard of AT&T hot spots. I haven't heard of Verizon hotspots.
Um, Apple went to Verizon first but Verizon didn't want to play their game.
What you don't know is that Apple is creating that CDMA universal phone for next year and is pretty much begging Verizon to take it.
The iPhone can only go so far as an AT&T exclusive and AT&T is going to be even further behind the times next year when Verizon begins rolling out 4G.
AT&T has delayed their 4G rollout to 2011 or later. Verizon has already tested 4G and plans to roll it out simultaneously in about 30 or more markets next year. All those markets will be available on rollout day and their will be Android phones ready and able to handle 4G.
And then Verizon will be able to hammer AT&T for its lack of 4G coverage which they will slowly begin rolling out market by market in 2011 when Verizon will have expanded its coverage even further.
The truth is that Verizon has a much better infrastructure and backbone than AT&T and any other carrier. And that quick 4G rollout is whythey haven't further expanded 3G as AT&T has slowly been doing.
When 4G hits Verizon will be able to offer the best global plans due to Vodafone being a major stake holder in Verizon Wireless.
As for iPhone users on AT&T's network, I know several and all complain about how slow the network is and how the iPhones don't work half the time, or so it seems.
If AT&T were so wonderful then why do they even make a CDMA phone? It also doesn't make sense with the 4G rollout unless Apple is intentionally crippling the iPhone to make sure their AT&T version of the phone doesn't get hammered.
Because if Verizon offered a 4G iPhone next year then all the Apple fanboys would ditch AT&T at light speed and head straight to VZW if AT&T was stuck with 2.5G mostly with a bit of 3G thrown in.
But Verizon will have a 4G Droid next year with no slider keyboard, just the touchscreen. They will have that and a couple of other 4G phones ready to go as they put LTE on top of their CDMA network.
And, for those that want to know, Apple has twice tried to get VZW to take the iPhone in the past. VZW was the first company they asked to carry the iPhone exclusively but Verizon had no interest in Apple's demands. Then they were asked to be the second carrier before the original AT&T exclusivity deal was extended but Apple had the same demands.
What's going to happen is either Apple will be forced to dump its demands or they'll have to face having their phone on a terribly backwards network next year compared to Verizon's LTE network that should be in over 50 markets by the end of 2010 when AT&T begins merely field testing 4G.
By next year the iPhone will be left in the dust unless Apple undermines AT&T and releases a 4G phone for VZW. That actually could be the reason for the CDMA chip - to support the larger VZW network that has the best overall coverage in the country. But if Verizon gets a 4G iPhone (and they might try for their own exclusivity deal on the 4G version) then I expect the guy who wrote this article to suddenly sing Verizon's praises and talk about how bad AT&T was.
While AT&T has a higher top speed, study after study shows that its top speed is rarely reached and on average Verizon kills AT&T for both voice and data coverage.
Also, don't confuse MB & Mb. 1MB = 8 Mb.
Actually, to be fair, the studies I've seen show that coverage is a bit more spotty on AT&T, but it's faster on average than Verizon.
If you live in or near a city, chances are you're better served by AT&T with a smartphone. If your out in the boonies, you're probably better served with Verizon.
I am NYC based and NYC is not representative of the rest of the country of course, but every New Yorker knows that Verizon basically craps all over every other carrier in the city, reliability wise, speed wise and coverage wide. I don't know anyone on Verizon who gets dropped calls, or waits 30 mins for a text message (unless it's from an iPhone) or can't get their email because the 'full bar' signal actually isn't transmitting any data.
Anyone living outside of NY (or San Fransisco from what I can gather) simply cannot understand how piss-poor AT&T's service is here... it's like being back in 1996 - calls won't connect, when they do they're dropped, I can barely read a 3 line email on my .me account without getting a massive lag... uploading a photo to Facebook... forget it!
Arguing the toss over coverage in Nevada (with all due respect) is nonsense, and just another anecdotal comment, I ran speedtest against a friend who just got a Droid phone in Park Slope Brooklyn (basically Affluent-Ville) - I got 0.35 mbit/sec and he got 2.1 mbit/sec (download), I got 0.10 upload and he got 0.7
Please AI, don't defend AT&T, they need their backsides kicking.
Sorry, I'm confused... are we saying: Hey, yeah, AT&T is totally awful, but guess what, Verizon isn't actually much better. Or are we saying Actually, AT&T rocks?
I am NYC based and NYC is not representative of the rest of the country of course, but every New Yorker knows that Verizon basically craps all over every other carrier in the city, reliability wise, speed wise and coverage wide. I don't know anyone on Verizon who gets dropped calls, or waits 30 mins for a text message (unless it's from an iPhone) or can't get their email because the 'full bar' signal actually isn't transmitting any data.
Anyone living outside of NY (or San Fransisco from what I can gather) simply cannot understand how piss-poor AT&T's service is here... it's like being back in 1996 - calls won't connect, when they do they're dropped, I can barely read a 3 line email on my .me account without getting a massive lag... uploading a photo to Facebook... forget it!
Arguing the toss over coverage in Nevada (with all due respect) is nonsense, and just another anecdotal comment, I ran speedtest against a friend who just got a Droid phone in Park Slope Brooklyn (basically Affluent-Ville) - I got 0.35 mbit/sec and he got 2.1 mbit/sec (download), I got 0.10 upload and he got 0.7
Please AI, don't defend AT&T, they need their backsides kicking.
I don't think anyone has said AT&T rocks. That would be hard to say about any cell company. Other than SF and New York troublespots, I think the average user doesn't notice any issues. Their not great, but their not as crappy as being painted either, unless you happen to live near those dead zones anyway
I just traveled through Europe with my iPhone, and had blazing fast Internet speeds everywhere I went, along with perfect call quality.
Speaking of "technically accurate but grossly misleading", AT&T has no issue singling out 3G when they advertise that they have the "fastest 3G" network. So I have no issue with Verizon singling out 3G when advertising their coverage area.
AT&T is suing because they have no other argument. The AT&T 2.5G covers less area at slower speeds than the Verizon 3G network. Yes, AT&T 3G is faster, if you're in the right area and can maintain a connection. That's not exactly good ad material.
The AT&T "our network is good enough" mentality has been criticized by iPhone users and bloggers since day one. Now that Verizon is joining that song, it's funny to see AI stepping up to defend AT&T's honor. Especially by using the same twisted and open-to-interpretation metrics that the entire wireless industry is notorious for.