Speak for yourself. Many iPhone users are clamoring for multitasking. I've jailbroken so I can have multitasking with apps like Pandora or just to make the messaging app load quickly because quitting everything to answer an SMS sucks.
It doesn't matter what a few whiners on internet forums say. What matters are sales. Thus far no phone has been able to use multitasking as a viable sales feature.
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My friend put his Droid on speaker and it was a legitimately great speaker phone. It could be heard over annoying child in background. It could be heard over fan cooling the room and other types of background noise. I've done the "speaker mod" to my 2G which helps the speaker volume by opening the protective plastic covering. Again there are plenty of iPhones out there but the speakerphone is just weak. The poster above notes it may not be his Razr but still works. That shows how low the bar is for iPhone users with regard to speaker. Most have just found a way to cope with it (as have I.)
Again it ultimately comes down to sales. "Who has the loudest speaker", doesn't sell phones. If Droid can claim that crown good for them. Lets see how that works out in the long run.
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2006 called and want their talking points back. Verizon has a very nice selection of features and smartphones and it is improving further still. Droid owners and see plenty of LG EnV______ phones all over the place (EnV2-3, Touch, etc.) Aside from sliding keyboard phones, what exactly does AT&T offer that is so awesome?
I cannot think of anyone clamoring for any particular phone on Verizon. The Droid is the most interesting of a dismal selection.
AT&T has the Bold, that has been rated a better Blackberry than the Storm or the Tour. AT&T can essentially use just about any GSM phone on the market.
They wouldn't have issued a press release if it didn't have any practicality.
yes but it also says that they are to 'sample' in 2009. which means that they could still be in testing but would be ready for practical tests by the device manufacturers. Not that they would be ready for prime time.
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Originally Posted by gcesare
Wow, this article seems to be lifted verbatim from a ATT press release.
As some people have commented already the "theoretical" speed of the ATT network is completely irrelevant if they do not have enough capacity to handle the traffic.
and you can say as a fact that Verizon does. all the time, in all their markets.
It doesn't matter what a few whiners on internet forums say. What matters are sales. Thus far no phone has been able to use multitasking as a viable sales feature.
Yes and no one did on personal computers either until Windows 95 and look what happened to Apple at that time. Those of use who care about Apple don't want to watch history repeat itself. Just because a weakness hasn't harmed Apple's sales yet doesn't mean it isn't a weakness. A thread right above this notes how great Nintendo was doing until iPhone/iPod reached critical mass and suddenly Nintendo's margins are taking a hit.
Why wait until Apple takes the hit to complain? Why is the complaint not valid in your mind until that point?
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Again it ultimately comes down to sales. "Who has the loudest speaker", doesn't sell phones. If Droid can claim that crown good for them. Lets see how that works out in the long run.
The real concern is that Apple might hit a tipping point and do nothing while a competitor lines up the necessary pieces to put them in a world of hurt. We see Google with Android and it is rolling out across all countries, companies and cell network standards. Then you see them own or putting out core apps Apple uses (YouTube, Map.) You see Google putting out apps that Apple now cannot use or will not allow to be used (Google Voice, Google TBT GPS.) You see them purchase the ad network that Apple users have been trumpeting month after month and that provides revenue streams for app store publishers (AdMob.)
Those are a hell of a lot of decent pieces that are waiting for an Apple slip up. Now that Google owns Admob, you don't think a little email might go out that says,"Hey app publisher, want to double your audience and revenue, use our handy dandy iPhone to Android app porting tool and get paid a higher click rate for porting."
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I cannot think of anyone clamoring for any particular phone on Verizon. The Droid is the most interesting of a dismal selection.
The fact that you cannot think of anyone doesn't mean that 89 million people are deluded. The have plenty of Blackberry, HTC, LG, etc. just like AT&T.
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AT&T has the Bold, that has been rated a better Blackberry than the Storm or the Tour. AT&T can essentially use just about any GSM phone on the market.
The fact is more doesn't equal quality. It also doesn't mean that if something is 5% better that it still isn't good enough for the majority. My LG Dare wasn't an iPhone and I'll gladly admit that. However I still to do this miss the speed of it for messaging, the incredible battery life, the fantastic 3.2 mp camera/video on a feature phone, very loud speakerphone and of course having great coverage everywhere really helped smooth over the occasional clunky feature.
A phone in doorstop mode doesn't feel 15% better than another phone even if it is feature-wise.
A seldom discussed, but significant in my opinion, disadvantage of the CDMA Rev A network in use by Verizon is the inability of the cellular device to access both voice and data simultaneously. AT&T's HSDPA network does not have that limitation.
Maybe not a deal breaker for most, but something to consider before blindly chatting Verizon's network is "better" than AT&T's. "Better" is at best a subjective term, even if you have hard data on some aspects of the comparison, when user experience is part of the equation.
How bout this? That essentially means you can't receive a call if you are send/receive data? Browsing the web, or watching YouTube, That's how it was on the EDGE iPhone. It was such a pain in the ass. You get sent to voicemail. And given how much people are using data, run into that problem. I had friends say why didn't you answer? We were waiting for you outside... Oh, I was on the internet.. Sorry.
I think that was a factor in the incarnation of visual voicemail.
The speakerphone on all iPhones are weak and as you noted, people have their own coping mechanism for it. I do as you do and wear earbuds.
The speakerphone on the iPhone 3G[s] is not weak. Might be weak in your opinion, but it is adequate; someone else posted the same. I do not use earphones to cope with the bad speakerphone, I use earphones because of privacy concerns.
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Originally Posted by trumptman
However the importance of doing both doesn't really matter for most people. It is simply the fanboy talking point du jour because it is the one thing that the Droid cannot do. Multitasking is now suddenly very important, but only in the exact context that the iPhone can do it and of course no other.
Actually, I specifically said "your milage may vary on this" or something similar, didn't I? I acknowledge that this may be a deal breaker for some, like me, but not for others. It is hardly the talking point du jour being made in some desperate attempt to attack the single chink in the Droid's armor.
I've got no particular axe to grind against the Droid; if I had to switch to Verizon right now, that's probably the phone I'd get.
My pointing out that Verizon's network does not allow simultaneous use of data and voice is talking about the NETWORK, not any particular phone, though it impacts every phone on Verizon's network right now, and it's one of the considerations that keeps me, based on my usage habits, from running out and grabbing a Droid just to have the latest techno gee whiz gadget. That and the fact that, as long as I can jailbreak my iPhone, I can pretty much have everything the Droid offers, plus everything the iPhone offers, except the hard keyboard and higher pixel count of the Droid. Hard keyboard no big deal to me at all, but I am envious of that big bright sharp Droid screen.
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Originally Posted by trumptman
Be a guy like me who wants to answer a SMS without quitting his browser and the answer is "Oh sorry, no one wants to do that and what about battery life, and...."
Meanwhile "everyone know" that what we really want to do is look up the review on the pizza place while ordering the pizza on the phone.
Both points are valid but if they are going to cost sales in one instance, they will in the other as well and I know that I spend a lot more time trying to multitask data rather than voice and data.
But that is exactly my point. Like everything in life, you decided what's important to you, what's not, and what compromises you're willing to make to get the benefits of one device over another. It's all about personal choice.
I'm glad there's finally a phone that comes somewhere near to the iPhone that's interesting and powerful enough to push Apple and other manufacturers to step up their game. It means come next summer, they'll be an even better iPhone for me to upgrade to! ;-)
Same thing for having multiple cell networks. If the size of red dots on a map vs blue is the most important thing about a cell phone to me, then I'll go with Verizon. If cheap service plans are the most important thing to me, I'll go with T-Mobile or Sprint. If access to the coolest smarter phone on the planet right now (in my opinion) is important to me, AT&T is the deal. All I know is that the competition forces all of them to do improve, and we all benefit from it, regardless of which network we choose.
Yes and no one did on personal computers either until Windows 95 and look what happened to Apple at that time. Those of use who care about Apple don't want to watch history repeat itself.
Why wait until Apple takes the hit to complain? Why is the complaint not valid in your mind until that point?
What in the world are you talking about?
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The real concern is that Apple might hit a tipping point and do nothing while a competitor lines up the necessary pieces to put them in a world of hurt.
This is pure speculation with no support of current events.
You've gone off in some strange segue that has nothing to do with what we were previously talking about.
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The fact that you cannot think of anyone doesn't mean that 89 million people are deluded. The have plenty of Blackberry, HTC, LG, etc. just like AT&T.
The reason the majority of those people are on VZ is not because of any particular phone they offer.
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The fact is more doesn't equal quality. It also doesn't mean that if something is 5% better that it still isn't good enough for the majority.
Having access to the majority of the phones on the world market does indeed increase access to the best phones. Phone manufacturers have to make specific phones that can only be sold on Verizon, that does limit access to the best phones.
The speakerphone on the iPhone 3G[s] is not weak. Might be weak in your opinion, but it is adequate; someone else posted the same. I do not use earphones to cope with the bad speakerphone, I use earphones because of privacy concerns.
This feels like a weird backtrack. No one uses a speakerphone when there are privacy concerns. I use speakerphone when I want to say, eat lunch while talking to the wife and need my hands free. The feature is useless on the iPhone though.
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Actually, I specifically said "your milage may vary on this" or something similar, didn't I? I acknowledge that this may be a deal breaker for some, like me, but not for others. It is hardly the talking point du jour being made in some desperate attempt to attack the single chink in the Droid's armor.
I've got no particular axe to grind against the Droid; if I had to switch to Verizon right now, that's probably the phone I'd get.
No problem. It was just odd because that voice/data concern has been floated over and over and it is sort of hilarious how the folks mentioning it have no multitasking data concerns.
I can even be a good sport and tell you three things right now that wouldn't put a Droid in my pocket. 1) No easy means of accessing Yahoo mail with a client, 2) No Audible.com support 3) No syncing software for the Mac.
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My pointing out that Verizon's network does not allow simultaneous use of data and voice is talking about the NETWORK, not any particular phone, though it impacts every phone on Verizon's network right now, and it's one of the considerations that keeps me, based on my usage habits, from running out and grabbing a Droid just to have the latest techno gee whiz gadget. That and the fact that, as long as I can jailbreak my iPhone, I can pretty much have everything the Droid offers, plus everything the iPhone offers, except the hard keyboard and higher pixel count of the Droid. Hard keyboard no big deal to me at all, but I am envious of that big bright sharp Droid screen.
It isn't an attack on the phone but on the network about which we are speaking people speak about it as a presumed ability everywhere on the network when it is only available in the areas with 3g coverage. As Verizon points out, like it or not, that isn't as big as most think.
I have jailbroken my iPhone as well, and don't need the hardware keyboard nor the bigger screen. What most people complain about is the lack of battery, lack of top of the line phone features and finally network with regard to iPhone.
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But that is exactly my point. Like everything in life, you decided what's important to you, what's not, and what compromises you're willing to make to get the benefits of one device over another. It's all about personal choice.
Agreed.
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I'm glad there's finally a phone that comes somewhere near to the iPhone that's interesting and powerful enough to push Apple and other manufacturers to step up their game. It means come next summer, they'll be an even better iPhone for me to upgrade to! ;-)
I think most are pretty happy with the iPhone stand alone hardware. I think they want work done on multitasking, notifications and battery life. The notifications point is the most troubling because Apple has been plugging away at it for at least two years and still don't have it right.
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Same thing for having multiple cell networks. If the size of red dots on a map vs blue is the most important thing about a cell phone to me, then I'll go with Verizon. If cheap service plans are the most important thing to me, I'll go with T-Mobile or Sprint. If access to the coolest smarter phone on the planet right now (in my opinion) is important to me, AT&T is the deal. All I know is that the competition forces all of them to do improve, and we all benefit from it, regardless of which network we choose.
AT&T cost the same as Verizon though for such an inferior network. Wouldn't it be nice to actually receive services rendered for that money spent?
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
What in the world are you talking about?
This is pure speculation with no support of current events.
You've gone off in some strange segue that has nothing to do with what we were previously talking about.
The reason the majority of those people are on VZ is not because of any particular phone they offer.
Having access to the majority of the phones on the world market does indeed increase access to the best phones. Phone manufacturers have to make specific phones that can only be sold on Verizon, that does limit access to the best phones.
If you don't like the reply, stop dismissing the concerns by declaring them invalid until they hit the bottom line. This is like declaring cancer unimportant to worry about until you die from it. Address rather than dismiss concerns. Google has the pieces. Android is showing up everywhere. AT&T's satisfaction remarks for network are in the crapper. Nothing that Apple doesn't have to do anything until their sales tumble is just wishing problems away.
What does that have to do with the US being two generations behind Europe and Asia? I'm really not following here.
If the US is getting the same average real life speed --- while being labeled as 2 generations behind the Europeans --- then it only means one thing, the labels are wrong.
Somehow, AT&T managed to get the 3rd fastest 3G iphone speed in the world, according to wired.com survey --- while many of the European carriers (who supposedly hyped up their 3G networks being 7.2 mbps or even 14 mbps) were slower than AT&T's generation behind 3.6 mbps HSDPA network.
Boygenius carrier network test found AT&T to have an average download speed of 933kbps. The far majority of phones used for the test would have been UMTS.
Verizon EV-DO Rev A average was 701kbps. EV-DO Rev.0 average download speed was 548kbps
Why don't you go and read over the actual raw data in the excel spreadsheet file --- most of the numbers come from HSDPA devices. The UMTS devices are the ones that showed up as 200 kbps in the spreadsheet.
It isn't an attack on the phone but on the network about which we are speaking people speak about it as a presumed ability everywhere on the network when it is only available in the areas with 3g coverage. As Verizon points out, like it or not, that isn't as big as most think.
How many people with smart phones live outside of the blue areas? They look pretty inclusive of the large metros around the country. I can't recall the last time I traveled to any place that isn't in a blue area, but maybe I just don't get out much.
What percentage of the smart phone population is really impacted by this red/blue thing? Serious question, and I am sure no one really knows.
As posted before, if you live work and play in blue areas that meet your needs, the size of the red area is irrelevant. It is zero impact on my life if Verizon has 3G coverage in some cornfields in Nebraska...
As far as eating lunch hands free, headphones are hands free, too. You place much more importance on speakerphones than I do. I don't like them, generally. It's clear this is an area we will not agree on, pointless to continue, but go ahead if you'd like.
I find the speakerphone works well, maybe you should adjust your hearing aid old man.
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Originally Posted by trumptman
This feels like a weird backtrack. No one uses a speakerphone when there are privacy concerns. I use speakerphone when I want to say, eat lunch while talking to the wife and need my hands free. The feature is useless on the iPhone though.
How bout this? That essentially means you can't receive a call if you are send/receive data? Browsing the web, or watching YouTube, That's how it was on the EDGE iPhone. It was such a pain in the ass. You get sent to voicemail. And given how much people are using data, run into that problem. I had friends say why didn't you answer? We were waiting for you outside... Oh, I was on the internet.. Sorry.
I think that was a factor in the incarnation of visual voicemail.
CDMA phones don't work this way. Most are preprogrammed to give voice priority over data, so that if a voice call comes in the data session is suspended. And most newer smartphones are configurable with regard to whether voice or data has priority. (And just about all CDMA handsets, even dumbphones, are configurable if you know how to hack them, which isn't hard, usually a matter of getting the MSL and accessing a hidden service menu.)
Granted, not as nice has having both available simultaneously, but not as bad as you portray.
If the US is getting the same average real life speed --- while being labeled as 2 generations behind the Europeans --- then it only means one thing, the labels are wrong.
Somehow, AT&T managed to get the 3rd fastest 3G iphone speed in the world, according to wired.com survey --- while many of the European carriers (who supposedly hyped up their 3G networks being 7.2 mbps or even 14 mbps) were slower than AT&T's generation behind 3.6 mbps HSDPA network.
Some online tests aren't very reliable. Just 2 days ago I tested the 21.6 Mbps connection in Madrid (in practice it's 16.2 Mbps real data maximum output) and it ran more or less at a steady 14-15 Mbps. That's faster than most DSL connections. The 7.2 Mbps connection usually works at 5.4 Mbps where I currently live (Salamanca).
Some online tests aren't very reliable. Just 2 days ago I tested the 21.6 Mbps connection in Madrid (in practice it's 16.2 Mbps real data maximum output) and it ran more or less at a steady 14-15 Mbps. That's faster than most DSL connections. The 7.2 Mbps connection usually works at 5.4 Mbps where I currently live (Salamanca).
Again you are talking therotical speed claims that can NEVER be achieved in real life.
A 28 mbps HSDPA (MIMO 2x14 mbps HSDPA) has a average downlink speed of about 8 mbps --- so a single 14 mbps has about a 4 mbps average downlink speed.
American carriers are the only companies that are truthful in their speed claims (because the US is the land of class action lawsuits) --- Verizon is promising 4G LTE download speed to average 7-12 mbps.
CDMA phones don't work this way. Most are preprogrammed to give voice priority over data, so that if a voice call comes in the data session is suspended. And most newer smartphones are configurable with regard to whether voice or data has priority. (And just about all CDMA handsets, even dumbphones, are configurable if you know how to hack them, which isn't hard, usually a matter of getting the MSL and accessing a hidden service menu.)
Granted, not as nice has having both available simultaneously, but not as bad as you portray.
I agree. EV-DO devices have been around for ages now --- and we haven't heard much real life complaining about this theoretical deficiency. In 3 months or 6 month's time, you are going to see a million Android phones on the Verizon network --- and you ain't going to see much real life complaining about this deficiency. All the talk had been, is and will be limited to fanbois talking in a theoretical setting.
This feels like a weird backtrack. No one uses a speakerphone when there are privacy concerns. I use speakerphone when I want to say, eat lunch while talking to the wife and need my hands free. The feature is useless on the iPhone though.
Most people don't use speakerphone for hands free phone use, most people use a headset.
The problem is that you are making authoritative statement. You are saying the speakerphone is useless. This is not true. You can argue that you've found another phone to have a more useful speakerphone system, but its untrue that the iPhone's is useless.
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I have jailbroken my iPhone as well, and don't need the hardware keyboard nor the bigger screen. What most people complain about is the lack of battery, lack of top of the line phone features and finally network with regard to iPhone.
Yes those 50+ million people who have bought iPhone's feel so deprived.
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I think most are pretty happy with the iPhone stand alone hardware. I think they want work done on multitasking, notifications and battery life. The notifications point is the most troubling because Apple has been plugging away at it for at least two years and still don't have it right.
What applications do you use for notifications that doesn't work right?
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If you don't like the reply, stop dismissing the concerns by declaring them invalid until they hit the bottom line. This is like declaring cancer unimportant to worry about until you die from it. Address rather than dismiss concerns. Google has the pieces. Android is showing up everywhere. AT&T's satisfaction remarks for network are in the crapper. Nothing that Apple doesn't have to do anything until their sales tumble is just wishing problems away.
Maybe its just that you use some really strange off the cuff examples to make your point. But most people are not particularly concerned about cancer before they would ever be diagnosed with it.
Its the perception of AT&T's network quality that is in the crapper. In reality AT&T is adding 2 million new subscribers per quarter.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Apple has been upgrading the OS and adding new features to the iPhone every year. What makes you think that will suddenly stop?
I'm looking at the exel spread sheet and see nothing about HDSPA or UMTS devices. Most of AT&T's phones don't use HSPA yet.
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Originally Posted by samab
Why don't you go and read over the actual raw data in the excel spreadsheet file --- most of the numbers come from HSDPA devices. The UMTS devices are the ones that showed up as 200 kbps in the spreadsheet.
I agree the majority of people will likely never notice this, but some people certainly will. When they see someone using an HSPA phone talking and sending email at the same time.
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Originally Posted by samab
I agree. EV-DO devices have been around for ages now --- and we haven't heard much real life complaining about this theoretical deficiency. In 3 months or 6 month's time, you are going to see a million Android phones on the Verizon network --- and you ain't going to see much real life complaining about this deficiency. All the talk had been, is and will be limited to fanbois talking in a theoretical setting.
I'm looking at the exel spread sheet and see nothing about HDSPA or UMTS devices. Most of AT&T's phones don't use HSPA yet.
But most of the people who responded to the survey would probably have an iphone which is HSDPA.
You can google the entire internet --- and they will tell you that the average download speed for 3G WCDMA/UMTS device has an average downlink speed of about 200-300 kbps.
How many people with smart phones live outside of the blue areas? They look pretty inclusive of the large metros around the country. I can't recall the last time I traveled to any place that isn't in a blue area, but maybe I just don't get out much.
What percentage of the smart phone population is really impacted by this red/blue thing? Serious question, and I am sure no one really knows.
As posted before, if you live work and play in blue areas that meet your needs, the size of the red area is irrelevant. It is zero impact on my life if Verizon has 3G coverage in some cornfields in Nebraska...
As far as eating lunch hands free, headphones are hands free, too. You place much more importance on speakerphones than I do. I don't like them, generally. It's clear this is an area we will not agree on, pointless to continue, but go ahead if you'd like.
Speaking to the general concern though about networks and why AT&T wouldn't advertise or attemt to knock Verizon about being able to do concurrent voice and data, I would say they don't mention it because it is clear the majority of their network doesn't have that feature.
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Originally Posted by hill60
I find the speakerphone works well, maybe you should adjust your hearing aid old man.
Can you hear this or should I turn it up? (Imagine hand and appropriate finger)
Be nice to me or I'll beat you with my cane.
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Originally Posted by huntm856
CDMA phones don't work this way. Most are preprogrammed to give voice priority over data, so that if a voice call comes in the data session is suspended. And most newer smartphones are configurable with regard to whether voice or data has priority. (And just about all CDMA handsets, even dumbphones, are configurable if you know how to hack them, which isn't hard, usually a matter of getting the MSL and accessing a hidden service menu.)
Granted, not as nice has having both available simultaneously, but not as bad as you portray.
I remember this too. I would be talking and have a MMS come in. It would show me I had a picture message waiting and then when I hung up, it would quickly download it.
Comments
Speak for yourself. Many iPhone users are clamoring for multitasking. I've jailbroken so I can have multitasking with apps like Pandora or just to make the messaging app load quickly because quitting everything to answer an SMS sucks.
It doesn't matter what a few whiners on internet forums say. What matters are sales. Thus far no phone has been able to use multitasking as a viable sales feature.
My friend put his Droid on speaker and it was a legitimately great speaker phone. It could be heard over annoying child in background. It could be heard over fan cooling the room and other types of background noise. I've done the "speaker mod" to my 2G which helps the speaker volume by opening the protective plastic covering. Again there are plenty of iPhones out there but the speakerphone is just weak. The poster above notes it may not be his Razr but still works. That shows how low the bar is for iPhone users with regard to speaker. Most have just found a way to cope with it (as have I.)
Again it ultimately comes down to sales. "Who has the loudest speaker", doesn't sell phones. If Droid can claim that crown good for them. Lets see how that works out in the long run.
2006 called and want their talking points back. Verizon has a very nice selection of features and smartphones and it is improving further still. Droid owners and see plenty of LG EnV______ phones all over the place (EnV2-3, Touch, etc.) Aside from sliding keyboard phones, what exactly does AT&T offer that is so awesome?
I cannot think of anyone clamoring for any particular phone on Verizon. The Droid is the most interesting of a dismal selection.
AT&T has the Bold, that has been rated a better Blackberry than the Storm or the Tour. AT&T can essentially use just about any GSM phone on the market.
They wouldn't have issued a press release if it didn't have any practicality.
yes but it also says that they are to 'sample' in 2009. which means that they could still be in testing but would be ready for practical tests by the device manufacturers. Not that they would be ready for prime time.
Wow, this article seems to be lifted verbatim from a ATT press release.
As some people have commented already the "theoretical" speed of the ATT network is completely irrelevant if they do not have enough capacity to handle the traffic.
and you can say as a fact that Verizon does. all the time, in all their markets.
It doesn't matter what a few whiners on internet forums say. What matters are sales. Thus far no phone has been able to use multitasking as a viable sales feature.
Yes and no one did on personal computers either until Windows 95 and look what happened to Apple at that time. Those of use who care about Apple don't want to watch history repeat itself. Just because a weakness hasn't harmed Apple's sales yet doesn't mean it isn't a weakness. A thread right above this notes how great Nintendo was doing until iPhone/iPod reached critical mass and suddenly Nintendo's margins are taking a hit.
Why wait until Apple takes the hit to complain? Why is the complaint not valid in your mind until that point?
Again it ultimately comes down to sales. "Who has the loudest speaker", doesn't sell phones. If Droid can claim that crown good for them. Lets see how that works out in the long run.
The real concern is that Apple might hit a tipping point and do nothing while a competitor lines up the necessary pieces to put them in a world of hurt. We see Google with Android and it is rolling out across all countries, companies and cell network standards. Then you see them own or putting out core apps Apple uses (YouTube, Map.) You see Google putting out apps that Apple now cannot use or will not allow to be used (Google Voice, Google TBT GPS.) You see them purchase the ad network that Apple users have been trumpeting month after month and that provides revenue streams for app store publishers (AdMob.)
Those are a hell of a lot of decent pieces that are waiting for an Apple slip up. Now that Google owns Admob, you don't think a little email might go out that says,"Hey app publisher, want to double your audience and revenue, use our handy dandy iPhone to Android app porting tool and get paid a higher click rate for porting."
I cannot think of anyone clamoring for any particular phone on Verizon. The Droid is the most interesting of a dismal selection.
The fact that you cannot think of anyone doesn't mean that 89 million people are deluded. The have plenty of Blackberry, HTC, LG, etc. just like AT&T.
AT&T has the Bold, that has been rated a better Blackberry than the Storm or the Tour. AT&T can essentially use just about any GSM phone on the market.
The fact is more doesn't equal quality. It also doesn't mean that if something is 5% better that it still isn't good enough for the majority. My LG Dare wasn't an iPhone and I'll gladly admit that. However I still to do this miss the speed of it for messaging, the incredible battery life, the fantastic 3.2 mp camera/video on a feature phone, very loud speakerphone and of course having great coverage everywhere really helped smooth over the occasional clunky feature.
A phone in doorstop mode doesn't feel 15% better than another phone even if it is feature-wise.
A seldom discussed, but significant in my opinion, disadvantage of the CDMA Rev A network in use by Verizon is the inability of the cellular device to access both voice and data simultaneously. AT&T's HSDPA network does not have that limitation.
Maybe not a deal breaker for most, but something to consider before blindly chatting Verizon's network is "better" than AT&T's. "Better" is at best a subjective term, even if you have hard data on some aspects of the comparison, when user experience is part of the equation.
How bout this? That essentially means you can't receive a call if you are send/receive data? Browsing the web, or watching YouTube, That's how it was on the EDGE iPhone. It was such a pain in the ass. You get sent to voicemail. And given how much people are using data, run into that problem. I had friends say why didn't you answer? We were waiting for you outside... Oh, I was on the internet.. Sorry.
I think that was a factor in the incarnation of visual voicemail.
The speakerphone on all iPhones are weak and as you noted, people have their own coping mechanism for it. I do as you do and wear earbuds.
The speakerphone on the iPhone 3G[s] is not weak. Might be weak in your opinion, but it is adequate; someone else posted the same. I do not use earphones to cope with the bad speakerphone, I use earphones because of privacy concerns.
However the importance of doing both doesn't really matter for most people. It is simply the fanboy talking point du jour because it is the one thing that the Droid cannot do. Multitasking is now suddenly very important, but only in the exact context that the iPhone can do it and of course no other.
Actually, I specifically said "your milage may vary on this" or something similar, didn't I? I acknowledge that this may be a deal breaker for some, like me, but not for others. It is hardly the talking point du jour being made in some desperate attempt to attack the single chink in the Droid's armor.
I've got no particular axe to grind against the Droid; if I had to switch to Verizon right now, that's probably the phone I'd get.
My pointing out that Verizon's network does not allow simultaneous use of data and voice is talking about the NETWORK, not any particular phone, though it impacts every phone on Verizon's network right now, and it's one of the considerations that keeps me, based on my usage habits, from running out and grabbing a Droid just to have the latest techno gee whiz gadget. That and the fact that, as long as I can jailbreak my iPhone, I can pretty much have everything the Droid offers, plus everything the iPhone offers, except the hard keyboard and higher pixel count of the Droid. Hard keyboard no big deal to me at all, but I am envious of that big bright sharp Droid screen.
Be a guy like me who wants to answer a SMS without quitting his browser and the answer is "Oh sorry, no one wants to do that and what about battery life, and...."
Meanwhile "everyone know" that what we really want to do is look up the review on the pizza place while ordering the pizza on the phone.
Both points are valid but if they are going to cost sales in one instance, they will in the other as well and I know that I spend a lot more time trying to multitask data rather than voice and data.
But that is exactly my point. Like everything in life, you decided what's important to you, what's not, and what compromises you're willing to make to get the benefits of one device over another. It's all about personal choice.
I'm glad there's finally a phone that comes somewhere near to the iPhone that's interesting and powerful enough to push Apple and other manufacturers to step up their game. It means come next summer, they'll be an even better iPhone for me to upgrade to! ;-)
Same thing for having multiple cell networks. If the size of red dots on a map vs blue is the most important thing about a cell phone to me, then I'll go with Verizon. If cheap service plans are the most important thing to me, I'll go with T-Mobile or Sprint. If access to the coolest smarter phone on the planet right now (in my opinion) is important to me, AT&T is the deal. All I know is that the competition forces all of them to do improve, and we all benefit from it, regardless of which network we choose.
Yes and no one did on personal computers either until Windows 95 and look what happened to Apple at that time. Those of use who care about Apple don't want to watch history repeat itself.
Why wait until Apple takes the hit to complain? Why is the complaint not valid in your mind until that point?
What in the world are you talking about?
The real concern is that Apple might hit a tipping point and do nothing while a competitor lines up the necessary pieces to put them in a world of hurt.
This is pure speculation with no support of current events.
You've gone off in some strange segue that has nothing to do with what we were previously talking about.
The fact that you cannot think of anyone doesn't mean that 89 million people are deluded. The have plenty of Blackberry, HTC, LG, etc. just like AT&T.
The reason the majority of those people are on VZ is not because of any particular phone they offer.
The fact is more doesn't equal quality. It also doesn't mean that if something is 5% better that it still isn't good enough for the majority.
Having access to the majority of the phones on the world market does indeed increase access to the best phones. Phone manufacturers have to make specific phones that can only be sold on Verizon, that does limit access to the best phones.
The speakerphone on the iPhone 3G[s] is not weak. Might be weak in your opinion, but it is adequate; someone else posted the same. I do not use earphones to cope with the bad speakerphone, I use earphones because of privacy concerns.
This feels like a weird backtrack. No one uses a speakerphone when there are privacy concerns. I use speakerphone when I want to say, eat lunch while talking to the wife and need my hands free. The feature is useless on the iPhone though.
Actually, I specifically said "your milage may vary on this" or something similar, didn't I? I acknowledge that this may be a deal breaker for some, like me, but not for others. It is hardly the talking point du jour being made in some desperate attempt to attack the single chink in the Droid's armor.
I've got no particular axe to grind against the Droid; if I had to switch to Verizon right now, that's probably the phone I'd get.
No problem. It was just odd because that voice/data concern has been floated over and over and it is sort of hilarious how the folks mentioning it have no multitasking data concerns.
I can even be a good sport and tell you three things right now that wouldn't put a Droid in my pocket. 1) No easy means of accessing Yahoo mail with a client, 2) No Audible.com support 3) No syncing software for the Mac.
My pointing out that Verizon's network does not allow simultaneous use of data and voice is talking about the NETWORK, not any particular phone, though it impacts every phone on Verizon's network right now, and it's one of the considerations that keeps me, based on my usage habits, from running out and grabbing a Droid just to have the latest techno gee whiz gadget. That and the fact that, as long as I can jailbreak my iPhone, I can pretty much have everything the Droid offers, plus everything the iPhone offers, except the hard keyboard and higher pixel count of the Droid. Hard keyboard no big deal to me at all, but I am envious of that big bright sharp Droid screen.
It isn't an attack on the phone but on the network about which we are speaking people speak about it as a presumed ability everywhere on the network when it is only available in the areas with 3g coverage. As Verizon points out, like it or not, that isn't as big as most think.
I have jailbroken my iPhone as well, and don't need the hardware keyboard nor the bigger screen. What most people complain about is the lack of battery, lack of top of the line phone features and finally network with regard to iPhone.
But that is exactly my point. Like everything in life, you decided what's important to you, what's not, and what compromises you're willing to make to get the benefits of one device over another. It's all about personal choice.
Agreed.
I'm glad there's finally a phone that comes somewhere near to the iPhone that's interesting and powerful enough to push Apple and other manufacturers to step up their game. It means come next summer, they'll be an even better iPhone for me to upgrade to! ;-)
I think most are pretty happy with the iPhone stand alone hardware. I think they want work done on multitasking, notifications and battery life. The notifications point is the most troubling because Apple has been plugging away at it for at least two years and still don't have it right.
Same thing for having multiple cell networks. If the size of red dots on a map vs blue is the most important thing about a cell phone to me, then I'll go with Verizon. If cheap service plans are the most important thing to me, I'll go with T-Mobile or Sprint. If access to the coolest smarter phone on the planet right now (in my opinion) is important to me, AT&T is the deal. All I know is that the competition forces all of them to do improve, and we all benefit from it, regardless of which network we choose.
AT&T cost the same as Verizon though for such an inferior network. Wouldn't it be nice to actually receive services rendered for that money spent?
What in the world are you talking about?
This is pure speculation with no support of current events.
You've gone off in some strange segue that has nothing to do with what we were previously talking about.
The reason the majority of those people are on VZ is not because of any particular phone they offer.
Having access to the majority of the phones on the world market does indeed increase access to the best phones. Phone manufacturers have to make specific phones that can only be sold on Verizon, that does limit access to the best phones.
If you don't like the reply, stop dismissing the concerns by declaring them invalid until they hit the bottom line. This is like declaring cancer unimportant to worry about until you die from it. Address rather than dismiss concerns. Google has the pieces. Android is showing up everywhere. AT&T's satisfaction remarks for network are in the crapper. Nothing that Apple doesn't have to do anything until their sales tumble is just wishing problems away.
What does that have to do with the US being two generations behind Europe and Asia? I'm really not following here.
If the US is getting the same average real life speed --- while being labeled as 2 generations behind the Europeans --- then it only means one thing, the labels are wrong.
Somehow, AT&T managed to get the 3rd fastest 3G iphone speed in the world, according to wired.com survey --- while many of the European carriers (who supposedly hyped up their 3G networks being 7.2 mbps or even 14 mbps) were slower than AT&T's generation behind 3.6 mbps HSDPA network.
Boygenius carrier network test found AT&T to have an average download speed of 933kbps. The far majority of phones used for the test would have been UMTS.
Verizon EV-DO Rev A average was 701kbps. EV-DO Rev.0 average download speed was 548kbps
Why don't you go and read over the actual raw data in the excel spreadsheet file --- most of the numbers come from HSDPA devices. The UMTS devices are the ones that showed up as 200 kbps in the spreadsheet.
It isn't an attack on the phone but on the network about which we are speaking people speak about it as a presumed ability everywhere on the network when it is only available in the areas with 3g coverage. As Verizon points out, like it or not, that isn't as big as most think.
How many people with smart phones live outside of the blue areas? They look pretty inclusive of the large metros around the country. I can't recall the last time I traveled to any place that isn't in a blue area, but maybe I just don't get out much.
What percentage of the smart phone population is really impacted by this red/blue thing? Serious question, and I am sure no one really knows.
As posted before, if you live work and play in blue areas that meet your needs, the size of the red area is irrelevant. It is zero impact on my life if Verizon has 3G coverage in some cornfields in Nebraska...
As far as eating lunch hands free, headphones are hands free, too. You place much more importance on speakerphones than I do. I don't like them, generally. It's clear this is an area we will not agree on, pointless to continue, but go ahead if you'd like.
This feels like a weird backtrack. No one uses a speakerphone when there are privacy concerns. I use speakerphone when I want to say, eat lunch while talking to the wife and need my hands free. The feature is useless on the iPhone though.
How bout this? That essentially means you can't receive a call if you are send/receive data? Browsing the web, or watching YouTube, That's how it was on the EDGE iPhone. It was such a pain in the ass. You get sent to voicemail. And given how much people are using data, run into that problem. I had friends say why didn't you answer? We were waiting for you outside... Oh, I was on the internet.. Sorry.
I think that was a factor in the incarnation of visual voicemail.
CDMA phones don't work this way. Most are preprogrammed to give voice priority over data, so that if a voice call comes in the data session is suspended. And most newer smartphones are configurable with regard to whether voice or data has priority. (And just about all CDMA handsets, even dumbphones, are configurable if you know how to hack them, which isn't hard, usually a matter of getting the MSL and accessing a hidden service menu.)
Granted, not as nice has having both available simultaneously, but not as bad as you portray.
If the US is getting the same average real life speed --- while being labeled as 2 generations behind the Europeans --- then it only means one thing, the labels are wrong.
Somehow, AT&T managed to get the 3rd fastest 3G iphone speed in the world, according to wired.com survey --- while many of the European carriers (who supposedly hyped up their 3G networks being 7.2 mbps or even 14 mbps) were slower than AT&T's generation behind 3.6 mbps HSDPA network.
Some online tests aren't very reliable. Just 2 days ago I tested the 21.6 Mbps connection in Madrid (in practice it's 16.2 Mbps real data maximum output) and it ran more or less at a steady 14-15 Mbps. That's faster than most DSL connections. The 7.2 Mbps connection usually works at 5.4 Mbps where I currently live (Salamanca).
Some online tests aren't very reliable. Just 2 days ago I tested the 21.6 Mbps connection in Madrid (in practice it's 16.2 Mbps real data maximum output) and it ran more or less at a steady 14-15 Mbps. That's faster than most DSL connections. The 7.2 Mbps connection usually works at 5.4 Mbps where I currently live (Salamanca).
Again you are talking therotical speed claims that can NEVER be achieved in real life.
A 28 mbps HSDPA (MIMO 2x14 mbps HSDPA) has a average downlink speed of about 8 mbps --- so a single 14 mbps has about a 4 mbps average downlink speed.
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/39459.php
American carriers are the only companies that are truthful in their speed claims (because the US is the land of class action lawsuits) --- Verizon is promising 4G LTE download speed to average 7-12 mbps.
http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/...als/2009-08-14
CDMA phones don't work this way. Most are preprogrammed to give voice priority over data, so that if a voice call comes in the data session is suspended. And most newer smartphones are configurable with regard to whether voice or data has priority. (And just about all CDMA handsets, even dumbphones, are configurable if you know how to hack them, which isn't hard, usually a matter of getting the MSL and accessing a hidden service menu.)
Granted, not as nice has having both available simultaneously, but not as bad as you portray.
I agree. EV-DO devices have been around for ages now --- and we haven't heard much real life complaining about this theoretical deficiency. In 3 months or 6 month's time, you are going to see a million Android phones on the Verizon network --- and you ain't going to see much real life complaining about this deficiency. All the talk had been, is and will be limited to fanbois talking in a theoretical setting.
This feels like a weird backtrack. No one uses a speakerphone when there are privacy concerns. I use speakerphone when I want to say, eat lunch while talking to the wife and need my hands free. The feature is useless on the iPhone though.
Most people don't use speakerphone for hands free phone use, most people use a headset.
The problem is that you are making authoritative statement. You are saying the speakerphone is useless. This is not true. You can argue that you've found another phone to have a more useful speakerphone system, but its untrue that the iPhone's is useless.
I have jailbroken my iPhone as well, and don't need the hardware keyboard nor the bigger screen. What most people complain about is the lack of battery, lack of top of the line phone features and finally network with regard to iPhone.
Yes those 50+ million people who have bought iPhone's feel so deprived.
I think most are pretty happy with the iPhone stand alone hardware. I think they want work done on multitasking, notifications and battery life. The notifications point is the most troubling because Apple has been plugging away at it for at least two years and still don't have it right.
What applications do you use for notifications that doesn't work right?
If you don't like the reply, stop dismissing the concerns by declaring them invalid until they hit the bottom line. This is like declaring cancer unimportant to worry about until you die from it. Address rather than dismiss concerns. Google has the pieces. Android is showing up everywhere. AT&T's satisfaction remarks for network are in the crapper. Nothing that Apple doesn't have to do anything until their sales tumble is just wishing problems away.
Maybe its just that you use some really strange off the cuff examples to make your point. But most people are not particularly concerned about cancer before they would ever be diagnosed with it.
Its the perception of AT&T's network quality that is in the crapper. In reality AT&T is adding 2 million new subscribers per quarter.
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Apple has been upgrading the OS and adding new features to the iPhone every year. What makes you think that will suddenly stop?
Why don't you go and read over the actual raw data in the excel spreadsheet file --- most of the numbers come from HSDPA devices. The UMTS devices are the ones that showed up as 200 kbps in the spreadsheet.
I agree. EV-DO devices have been around for ages now --- and we haven't heard much real life complaining about this theoretical deficiency. In 3 months or 6 month's time, you are going to see a million Android phones on the Verizon network --- and you ain't going to see much real life complaining about this deficiency. All the talk had been, is and will be limited to fanbois talking in a theoretical setting.
I'm looking at the exel spread sheet and see nothing about HDSPA or UMTS devices. Most of AT&T's phones don't use HSPA yet.
But most of the people who responded to the survey would probably have an iphone which is HSDPA.
You can google the entire internet --- and they will tell you that the average download speed for 3G WCDMA/UMTS device has an average downlink speed of about 200-300 kbps.
How many people with smart phones live outside of the blue areas? They look pretty inclusive of the large metros around the country. I can't recall the last time I traveled to any place that isn't in a blue area, but maybe I just don't get out much.
What percentage of the smart phone population is really impacted by this red/blue thing? Serious question, and I am sure no one really knows.
As posted before, if you live work and play in blue areas that meet your needs, the size of the red area is irrelevant. It is zero impact on my life if Verizon has 3G coverage in some cornfields in Nebraska...
As far as eating lunch hands free, headphones are hands free, too. You place much more importance on speakerphones than I do. I don't like them, generally. It's clear this is an area we will not agree on, pointless to continue, but go ahead if you'd like.
DL, I understand your priorities are your own but realize others are knocking Verizon for not selling to the defacto world standard as an example while you are one who notes you don't color outside the blue enough to care. Most of us use our phones in a very limited area and when traveling outside those areas it is easier to pay to play then rather than limit ourselves for the majority of the time.
I also noted that where network wasn't a concern, the Droid wouldn't change any minds.
Speaking to the general concern though about networks and why AT&T wouldn't advertise or attemt to knock Verizon about being able to do concurrent voice and data, I would say they don't mention it because it is clear the majority of their network doesn't have that feature.
I find the speakerphone works well, maybe you should adjust your hearing aid old man.
Can you hear this or should I turn it up? (Imagine hand and appropriate finger)
Be nice to me or I'll beat you with my cane.
CDMA phones don't work this way. Most are preprogrammed to give voice priority over data, so that if a voice call comes in the data session is suspended. And most newer smartphones are configurable with regard to whether voice or data has priority. (And just about all CDMA handsets, even dumbphones, are configurable if you know how to hack them, which isn't hard, usually a matter of getting the MSL and accessing a hidden service menu.)
Granted, not as nice has having both available simultaneously, but not as bad as you portray.
I remember this too. I would be talking and have a MMS come in. It would show me I had a picture message waiting and then when I hung up, it would quickly download it.