Your assuming Verizon will one day get the iPhone.
What if Apple's position is "There is no way in @%($ing hell Verizon is ever getting the iPhone"?
Apple doesn't need to dominate market share to be successful. Indeed, other then the almost disastrous early '90's they haven't targeted market share since Job's return. and they aren't exactly hurting because of it.
What's Verizon's "forward thinking" to never getting the iPhone? Pray? What if Apple start's kicking out $50 3G's and get's AT&T to offer a $50 a month plan instead of $70? More disingenuous advertising?
Verizon has a heck of a lot more to loose in the long term. The great thing about the iPhone is it's a platform, not "just" a phone. Android is the closest thing so far to matching the platform concept. The problem is, just like with Linux, it will fragment. Manufactures won't be able to help themselves. They will listen to the checklist nazi's, go crazy and fragment. It's already happened with desktop linux, and without some sort of central control why wouldn't it happen again? Google doesn't care as long as it's in use.
In the long run Android will be the techie geek phone (like just about every smart phone pre-iPhone), but not a significant competitor. Unless someone picks up Android, forks it and does an Apple with an integrated ecosystem.
Wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if that vendor ends up being Microsoft?
I am not assuming anything. I am saying that the iphone carriers all over the world are facing the same problem. O2 just lost their iphone exclusivity in UK, their phone line-up strategy is going to be more confused than Verizon's strategy.
And AT&T CEO has been talking about the end of the iphone exclusivity --- and their phone line-up is going to be foggy as well. Doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iphone or not.
I never said that you HAVE to agree with Verizon's long term thinking. I simply said that Verizon had seriously thought about their long term position BEFORE they spent massive amount of money on their network build-outs.
it's sad and ironic that this is the case. Unfortunately for competition's sake, Microsoft seems unable to get their act together on any of these fronts. Forunately for everybody else, Apple's innovation continues despite a lack of any true competiton.
They can't even get the Zune and WinMob to share the same store or games, even thought they are based on WinCE
That sounds great on the surface but it comes across as a major PF fluff piece. They trhough around a lot figures but not of it can be directly translated into hard data. We?llI have to get comments from SF residents on this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets
They can't even get the Zune and WinMob to share the same store or games, even thought they are based on WinCE
Apple only makes it look easy.
I actually hope MS makes a Zune phone. The Zune ecosystem is the closest hit-for-hit challenger the iPhone has and I know there are businesses that use WinMo phones simply because of how they interact with their WinMo servers. Android certainly isn?t going to hurt Apple on the upper end and MS needs something concrete or they really should give it up on the mobile front.
Verizon's business strategy is actually easier to understand for the outsiders --- because they don't have the iphone.
It is not FUD at all. Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
..... Verizon share prices have held up better than AT&T share prices.
Profit is the only thing that matter, and Verizon is laughing on the way to the bank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
.... Doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iphone or not.
I never said that you HAVE to agree with Verizon's long term thinking. I simply said that Verizon had seriously thought about their long term position....
Can you hear me now?
PS: You remind me of 'rahodeb' (google it, if interested!)
Honestly i don't think verizon will get the iphone. I remember reading chatter about backroom meetings with VZW and apple and that an LTE iphone was in development. I don't buy it. If this was the case then why is VZW taking a stance as being anti iphone.
Adding the PRE to the lineup just stinks of the fact that they know they are not getting the iphone. And even if they did i don't think their network could support it. Simply because the usage from the droid,all of the blackberries,the pre,htc phones would cause the network to have the same problems as AT&T's if not more because VZW has more subs.
Also i can't imagine apple allowing verizon's logo or name on the iphone casing. But summer of 2010 will come and go without a CDMA iphone. However summer of 2011 could be a totally different animal
"Verizon Communications Inc. posted a 30% decline in its third-quarter profit as rival AT&T Inc. and Apple Inc.'s iPhone took a bite out of its wireless growth."
"FiOS was light," said Sanford Bernstein analyst Craig Moffett, who called the TV numbers "a clear disappointment."
Profit is the only thing that matter, and Verizon is laughing on the way to the bank.
Do you do even the most basic research before you post your nonsense?
Google keywords:
Verizon
Profit
It doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iPhone?
Seems to matter a helluva lot, since they're about to cut a deal with Palm and are ramping up the advertising because their rival is cashing in on the iPhone and they're not. Just how many also-ran devices does it take to combat a SINGLE phone? Verizon is desperate for the iPhone, or any premier "killer" device, which unfortunately, doesn't exist at this point. Ergo . . . they're desperate for the iPhone.
Do you do even the most basic research before you post your nonsense?
Google keywords:
Verizon
Profit
It doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iPhone?
Seems to matter a helluva lot, since they're about to cut a deal woth Palm and are ramping up the advertising because their rival is chasing in on the iPhone and they're not. Just how many also-ran devices does it take to combat a SINGLE phone? Verizon is desperate for the iPhone, or any premier "killer" device, which unfortunately, doesn't exist at this point. Ergo . . . they're desperate for the iPhone.
i agree with the first part of your post >> no matter what verizon goes there stuck with tons of low profit clients and incredible high expense to build the 7.2 g network .
yet as long as verizon keeps hanging around anything can happen , that horse will sing
verizon stewed for 3 yrs. pining for the apple phone
they will come roaring back in 2011-12 when the iphone becomes available to all carriers!!
<<<< It does matter >>> that verizon gets the iphone for a couple of solid reasons
The BIG one is verizon is missing out on the iphone 1 million app revolution .
and this revolution makes the un=wieldly V-CAST look stupid and child like /
It also is missing out on the tons and tons of fun the iphone is too use .
VERIZON data network will be under used and under funded by clients until they get the iphone
In every major city in the USA VERIZON's iphone model will capture almost all the fortune 500 accounts VERIZON FIOS network allows them to tie in many more features than stand alone ATT/SPRINT , features like TV networks and movies and such .
Yet i may be full of shit here if APPLE does the MVNO GATEKEEPER network where apple is your carrier ,,If that happens the nano phone will arrive.
"Verizon Communications Inc. posted a 30% decline in its third-quarter profit as rival AT&T Inc. and Apple Inc.'s iPhone took a bite out of its wireless growth."
"FiOS was light," said Sanford Bernstein analyst Craig Moffett, who called the TV numbers "a clear disappointment."
One time charges related to the Alltel merger, means nothing in the long term.
Yes, AT&T Wireless grew faster than VZW --- but not because of the iphone, it was because of Tracfone.
And I agree with you that last quarter, FIOS is a disappointment. But as I said it before --- Verizon is really looking at the long term on FIOS, not what happens right now.
Do you do even the most basic research before you post your nonsense?
Google keywords:
Verizon
Profit
It doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iPhone?
Seems to matter a helluva lot, since they're about to cut a deal with Palm and are ramping up the advertising because their rival is cashing in on the iPhone and they're not. Just how many also-ran devices does it take to combat a SINGLE phone? Verizon is desperate for the iPhone, or any premier "killer" device, which unfortunately, doesn't exist at this point. Ergo . . . they're desperate for the iPhone.
Except that AT&T isn't really cashing in on the iphone --- Apple makes the real money, not AT&T. Palm and Motorola are desperate to sell their cell phones to Verizon --- it means Verizon got the Droid on the cheap.
i agree with the first part of your post >> no matter what verizon goes there stuck with tons of low profit clients and incredible high expense to build the 7.2 g network .
yet as long as verizon keeps hanging around anything can happen , that horse will sing
verizon stewed for 3 yrs. pining for the apple phone
they will come roaring back in 2011-12 when the iphone becomes available to all carriers!!
<<<< It does matter >>> that verizon gets the iphone for a couple of solid reasons
The BIG one is verizon is missing out on the iphone 1 million app revolution .
and this revolution makes the un=wieldly V-CAST look stupid and child like /
It also is missing out on the tons and tons of fun the iphone is too use .
VERIZON data network will be under used and under funded by clients until they get the iphone
In every major city in the USA VERIZON's iphone model will capture almost all the fortune 500 accounts VERIZON FIOS network allows them to tie in many more features than stand alone ATT/SPRINT , features like TV networks and movies and such .
Yet i may be full of shit here if APPLE does the MVNO GATEKEEPER network where apple is your carrier ,,If that happens the nano phone will arrive.
peace
9
AT&T got 2 million net adds in the last quarter --- 800K of the subscriber net adds came from Tracfone (with $15 ARPU per month). AT&T is the one who is stuck with the low paying customers.
Verizon's wireless network is actually OVER-FUNDED --- because they haven't paid Vodafone a single cent in dividend for the last 4 years. And VZW's data ARPU is actually HIGHER than AT&T Wireless. It really means that AT&T's wireless network is OVERUSED and UNDERFUNDED.
Remember these LTE radios are going to be power hogs and expensive. I would expect to see USB notebook cards first crop up and not expect a high-end smartphone to get LTE for at least a year later.
Japan will be getting LTE data cards this year, and smartphones in 2011, so for a larger country it may be even longer away
Thanks again for another good link. Verizon has done well in convincing people that LTE will be complete before it even gets off the ground. I don’t expect the average person to know what is possibly involved in this kind of transfer or why Sprint and Verizon have to move to a ‘4G’ tech right now, but there should be some rational thought when looking at how long it has taken for ‘2G’ and ‘3G’ mobile tech to become viable.
If Japan isn’t going to have LTE smartphones until 2011 what is the timeframe for the US to get them? Maybe they’ve caught up quite a bit but they certainly haven’t exceeded Japan.
Quote:
[NTT DoCoMo is] racing to be first with 'real' 4G - not the hyped propaganda so-called 4G of WiMax etc that many now offer (the ITU will nont ratify the standard(s) for*4G until October of next year, so nobody can have 4G before then - NTT DoCoMo is committed to launching LTE*this December 2009 with data cards, and bring in LTE phones in 2011* Cool. If LTE is accepted as 4G, as is widely expected.
NTT DoCoMo is still leading the pack. I don’t expect any US carrier to go completely dark on ‘2G’ for a good decade.
Quote:
NTT DoCoMo is so far in its migration of its customer base from 2G to 3G, they will terminate 2G in March of 2011. Wow. 16 more months. Wow. Think of how far they are in the future. Two years ago the 'hot' and 'sexy' phone in North America was the original 2G iPhone (which was never sold in Japan due to being obsolete). Now Japan is already shutting off their network that is on that generation. China just started 3G this year. Many countries like India have not even allocated 3G spectrum yet, but Japan is turning 2G off. This is mega. And yeah, makes sense that it would be in Japan first (and on NTT DoCoMo's network at that). Cool. Brave move, congrats to NTT DoCoMo.
I think there is a good argument that using an obscure network technology that limits your access to the best phones on the market as the best long term plan.
The 4G transition should prove to be a challenge for VZW, it won't be straight forward and simple. For the next couple of years VZW will be split between its old network and a brand new untested network.
While in theory AT&T should have a smoother transition through HSPA+ to LTE. But history has shown VZW more competent at network build outs than AT&T. It'll be interesting to watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
Nobody has more forward thinking ability than Verizon --- they are really thinking long term when they make MASSIVE big bets on network build-outs that they can't recoup their capex investments for a decade or more. They ain't afraid to spend $22+ billion on FIOS that have depressed their share price for the last 5 years knowing that they can't recoup that investment for a decade or more.
I think there is a good argument that using an obscure network technology that limits your access to the best phones on the market as the best long term plan.
Verizon wasn?t really "forward think? by going with EVDO and refusing the iPhone.
AT&T is paying roughly $400 upfront subsidy for the iPhone. Over 24 months iPhone user is paying AT&T an average $2,160. How is AT&T not making money from this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
Except that AT&T isn't really cashing in on the iphone --- Apple makes the real money, not AT&T. Palm and Motorola are desperate to sell their cell phones to Verizon --- it means Verizon got the Droid on the cheap.
Comments
Your assuming Verizon will one day get the iPhone.
What if Apple's position is "There is no way in @%($ing hell Verizon is ever getting the iPhone"?
Apple doesn't need to dominate market share to be successful. Indeed, other then the almost disastrous early '90's they haven't targeted market share since Job's return. and they aren't exactly hurting because of it.
What's Verizon's "forward thinking" to never getting the iPhone? Pray? What if Apple start's kicking out $50 3G's and get's AT&T to offer a $50 a month plan instead of $70? More disingenuous advertising?
Verizon has a heck of a lot more to loose in the long term. The great thing about the iPhone is it's a platform, not "just" a phone. Android is the closest thing so far to matching the platform concept. The problem is, just like with Linux, it will fragment. Manufactures won't be able to help themselves. They will listen to the checklist nazi's, go crazy and fragment. It's already happened with desktop linux, and without some sort of central control why wouldn't it happen again? Google doesn't care as long as it's in use.
In the long run Android will be the techie geek phone (like just about every smart phone pre-iPhone), but not a significant competitor. Unless someone picks up Android, forks it and does an Apple with an integrated ecosystem.
Wouldn't it be deliciously ironic if that vendor ends up being Microsoft?
I am not assuming anything. I am saying that the iphone carriers all over the world are facing the same problem. O2 just lost their iphone exclusivity in UK, their phone line-up strategy is going to be more confused than Verizon's strategy.
And AT&T CEO has been talking about the end of the iphone exclusivity --- and their phone line-up is going to be foggy as well. Doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iphone or not.
I never said that you HAVE to agree with Verizon's long term thinking. I simply said that Verizon had seriously thought about their long term position BEFORE they spent massive amount of money on their network build-outs.
it's sad and ironic that this is the case. Unfortunately for competition's sake, Microsoft seems unable to get their act together on any of these fronts. Forunately for everybody else, Apple's innovation continues despite a lack of any true competiton.
They can't even get the Zune and WinMob to share the same store or games, even thought they are based on WinCE
Apple only makes it look easy.
http://www.macdailynews.com/index.ph...san_francisco/
That sounds great on the surface but it comes across as a major PF fluff piece. They trhough around a lot figures but not of it can be directly translated into hard data. We?llI have to get comments from SF residents on this one.
They can't even get the Zune and WinMob to share the same store or games, even thought they are based on WinCE
Apple only makes it look easy.
I actually hope MS makes a Zune phone. The Zune ecosystem is the closest hit-for-hit challenger the iPhone has and I know there are businesses that use WinMo phones simply because of how they interact with their WinMo servers. Android certainly isn?t going to hurt Apple on the upper end and MS needs something concrete or they really should give it up on the mobile front.
Verizon's business strategy is actually easier to understand for the outsiders --- because they don't have the iphone.
It is not FUD at all. Y
..... Verizon share prices have held up better than AT&T share prices.
Profit is the only thing that matter, and Verizon is laughing on the way to the bank.
.... Doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iphone or not.
I never said that you HAVE to agree with Verizon's long term thinking. I simply said that Verizon had seriously thought about their long term position....
Can you hear me now?
PS: You remind me of 'rahodeb' (google it, if interested!)
Adding the PRE to the lineup just stinks of the fact that they know they are not getting the iphone. And even if they did i don't think their network could support it. Simply because the usage from the droid,all of the blackberries,the pre,htc phones would cause the network to have the same problems as AT&T's if not more because VZW has more subs.
Also i can't imagine apple allowing verizon's logo or name on the iphone casing. But summer of 2010 will come and go without a CDMA iphone. However summer of 2011 could be a totally different animal
Profit is the only thing that matter, and Verizon is laughing on the way to the bank.
Verizon Profit Drops 30% Amid Charges; Wireless Trails AT&T
"Verizon Communications Inc. posted a 30% decline in its third-quarter profit as rival AT&T Inc. and Apple Inc.'s iPhone took a bite out of its wireless growth."
"FiOS was light," said Sanford Bernstein analyst Craig Moffett, who called the TV numbers "a clear disappointment."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...080545902.html
But hey, the WSJ isn't wall street is it?
Profit is the only thing that matter, and Verizon is laughing on the way to the bank.
Do you do even the most basic research before you post your nonsense?
Google keywords:
Verizon
Profit
It doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iPhone?
Seems to matter a helluva lot, since they're about to cut a deal with Palm and are ramping up the advertising because their rival is cashing in on the iPhone and they're not. Just how many also-ran devices does it take to combat a SINGLE phone? Verizon is desperate for the iPhone, or any premier "killer" device, which unfortunately, doesn't exist at this point. Ergo . . . they're desperate for the iPhone.
Yep, VZW, it's a puzzle for everyone in phone business now how to beat iPhone.
Do you do even the most basic research before you post your nonsense?
Google keywords:
Verizon
Profit
It doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iPhone?
Seems to matter a helluva lot, since they're about to cut a deal woth Palm and are ramping up the advertising because their rival is chasing in on the iPhone and they're not. Just how many also-ran devices does it take to combat a SINGLE phone? Verizon is desperate for the iPhone, or any premier "killer" device, which unfortunately, doesn't exist at this point. Ergo . . . they're desperate for the iPhone.
i agree with the first part of your post >> no matter what verizon goes there stuck with tons of low profit clients and incredible high expense to build the 7.2 g network .
yet as long as verizon keeps hanging around anything can happen , that horse will sing
verizon stewed for 3 yrs. pining for the apple phone
they will come roaring back in 2011-12 when the iphone becomes available to all carriers!!
<<<< It does matter >>> that verizon gets the iphone for a couple of solid reasons
The BIG one is verizon is missing out on the iphone 1 million app revolution .
and this revolution makes the un=wieldly V-CAST look stupid and child like /
It also is missing out on the tons and tons of fun the iphone is too use .
VERIZON data network will be under used and under funded by clients until they get the iphone
In every major city in the USA VERIZON's iphone model will capture almost all the fortune 500 accounts VERIZON FIOS network allows them to tie in many more features than stand alone ATT/SPRINT , features like TV networks and movies and such .
Yet i may be full of shit here if APPLE does the MVNO GATEKEEPER network where apple is your carrier ,,If that happens the nano phone will arrive.
peace
9
http://www.macdailynews.com/index.ph...ng_smartphone/
Verizon Profit Drops 30% Amid Charges; Wireless Trails AT&T
"Verizon Communications Inc. posted a 30% decline in its third-quarter profit as rival AT&T Inc. and Apple Inc.'s iPhone took a bite out of its wireless growth."
"FiOS was light," said Sanford Bernstein analyst Craig Moffett, who called the TV numbers "a clear disappointment."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...080545902.html
But hey, the WSJ isn't wall street is it?
One time charges related to the Alltel merger, means nothing in the long term.
Yes, AT&T Wireless grew faster than VZW --- but not because of the iphone, it was because of Tracfone.
And I agree with you that last quarter, FIOS is a disappointment. But as I said it before --- Verizon is really looking at the long term on FIOS, not what happens right now.
Do you do even the most basic research before you post your nonsense?
Google keywords:
Verizon
Profit
It doesn't matter whether Verizon gets the iPhone?
Seems to matter a helluva lot, since they're about to cut a deal with Palm and are ramping up the advertising because their rival is cashing in on the iPhone and they're not. Just how many also-ran devices does it take to combat a SINGLE phone? Verizon is desperate for the iPhone, or any premier "killer" device, which unfortunately, doesn't exist at this point. Ergo . . . they're desperate for the iPhone.
Except that AT&T isn't really cashing in on the iphone --- Apple makes the real money, not AT&T. Palm and Motorola are desperate to sell their cell phones to Verizon --- it means Verizon got the Droid on the cheap.
i agree with the first part of your post >> no matter what verizon goes there stuck with tons of low profit clients and incredible high expense to build the 7.2 g network .
yet as long as verizon keeps hanging around anything can happen , that horse will sing
verizon stewed for 3 yrs. pining for the apple phone
they will come roaring back in 2011-12 when the iphone becomes available to all carriers!!
<<<< It does matter >>> that verizon gets the iphone for a couple of solid reasons
The BIG one is verizon is missing out on the iphone 1 million app revolution .
and this revolution makes the un=wieldly V-CAST look stupid and child like /
It also is missing out on the tons and tons of fun the iphone is too use .
VERIZON data network will be under used and under funded by clients until they get the iphone
In every major city in the USA VERIZON's iphone model will capture almost all the fortune 500 accounts VERIZON FIOS network allows them to tie in many more features than stand alone ATT/SPRINT , features like TV networks and movies and such .
Yet i may be full of shit here if APPLE does the MVNO GATEKEEPER network where apple is your carrier ,,If that happens the nano phone will arrive.
peace
9
AT&T got 2 million net adds in the last quarter --- 800K of the subscriber net adds came from Tracfone (with $15 ARPU per month). AT&T is the one who is stuck with the low paying customers.
Verizon's wireless network is actually OVER-FUNDED --- because they haven't paid Vodafone a single cent in dividend for the last 4 years. And VZW's data ARPU is actually HIGHER than AT&T Wireless. It really means that AT&T's wireless network is OVERUSED and UNDERFUNDED.
Remember these LTE radios are going to be power hogs and expensive. I would expect to see USB notebook cards first crop up and not expect a high-end smartphone to get LTE for at least a year later.
According to this
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...hong-kong.html
Japan will be getting LTE data cards this year, and smartphones in 2011, so for a larger country it may be even longer away
According to this
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...hong-kong.html
Japan will be getting LTE data cards this year, and smartphones in 2011, so for a larger country it may be even longer away
Thanks again for another good link. Verizon has done well in convincing people that LTE will be complete before it even gets off the ground. I don’t expect the average person to know what is possibly involved in this kind of transfer or why Sprint and Verizon have to move to a ‘4G’ tech right now, but there should be some rational thought when looking at how long it has taken for ‘2G’ and ‘3G’ mobile tech to become viable.
If Japan isn’t going to have LTE smartphones until 2011 what is the timeframe for the US to get them? Maybe they’ve caught up quite a bit but they certainly haven’t exceeded Japan.
[NTT DoCoMo is] racing to be first with 'real' 4G - not the hyped propaganda so-called 4G of WiMax etc that many now offer (the ITU will nont ratify the standard(s) for*4G until October of next year, so nobody can have 4G before then - NTT DoCoMo is committed to launching LTE*this December 2009 with data cards, and bring in LTE phones in 2011* Cool. If LTE is accepted as 4G, as is widely expected.
NTT DoCoMo is still leading the pack. I don’t expect any US carrier to go completely dark on ‘2G’ for a good decade.
NTT DoCoMo is so far in its migration of its customer base from 2G to 3G, they will terminate 2G in March of 2011. Wow. 16 more months. Wow. Think of how far they are in the future. Two years ago the 'hot' and 'sexy' phone in North America was the original 2G iPhone (which was never sold in Japan due to being obsolete). Now Japan is already shutting off their network that is on that generation. China just started 3G this year. Many countries like India have not even allocated 3G spectrum yet, but Japan is turning 2G off. This is mega. And yeah, makes sense that it would be in Japan first (and on NTT DoCoMo's network at that). Cool. Brave move, congrats to NTT DoCoMo.
Great links today, Jfanning!
The 4G transition should prove to be a challenge for VZW, it won't be straight forward and simple. For the next couple of years VZW will be split between its old network and a brand new untested network.
While in theory AT&T should have a smoother transition through HSPA+ to LTE. But history has shown VZW more competent at network build outs than AT&T. It'll be interesting to watch.
Nobody has more forward thinking ability than Verizon --- they are really thinking long term when they make MASSIVE big bets on network build-outs that they can't recoup their capex investments for a decade or more. They ain't afraid to spend $22+ billion on FIOS that have depressed their share price for the last 5 years knowing that they can't recoup that investment for a decade or more.
Yes, AT&T Wireless grew faster than VZW --- but not because of the iphone, it was because of Tracfone.
I think there is a good argument that using an obscure network technology that limits your access to the best phones on the market as the best long term plan.
Verizon wasn?t really "forward think? by going with EVDO and refusing the iPhone.
Except that AT&T isn't really cashing in on the iphone --- Apple makes the real money, not AT&T. Palm and Motorola are desperate to sell their cell phones to Verizon --- it means Verizon got the Droid on the cheap.