I figure that means Apple have taken 75%+ of the profit, and Microsoft took the rest except maybe for a single digit percentile.
Love to see quality products doing well. Quality is better value, especially essentials like food. Show 'em the way Apple!
.
Uh, not really.
We are talking about retail desktop computer sales, not OS sales.
In there, Apple is competing HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer. Microsoft is pretty much out of the picture, because, Microsoft is software vendor only and making money out of Macs as well.
I believe significant number of retail-sold Macs will end up bootcamping Windows, and that Windows will be retail copy. Since MS is making more money on retail copies compared to what they get from OEMs (per copy), I would not be surprised to learn that Apple is bringing MS more profit than some major OEMs.
At the end of the day, Apple computers are just another brand among MS customers. If Apple ever manages to make them self-sufficient, that is, that majority of Mac users don't have any need for Windows, yes that will hurt. But as it is right now...
On the other side, after a month only, number of Win 7 copies sold is already competing with total number of OSX installs out there... if you compare OS/software sales between MS and Apple - and that is the only PC segment you can compare them right now - you will realize that MS is in completely different dimension. Comparing software sales with combined software and hardware sales does not make much sense, likewise adding (for example) HP medical equipment, printers etc. numbers into their PC sales comparison against Apple does not make much sense either.
Since Apple doesn’t have an illegal monopoly that is forcing people to buy their PCs it clearly means that people are choosing to pay more on average per PC to get a product they feel is worth the expense.
No- it simply means that PC shoppers were not buying as Windows 7 hadn't been released in this entire perod. The article clearly states that fact - how could you ignore it? On second thought-don't answer that.
That is the problem holding back Apple, steep prices.
It would be much more useful to measure the success or failure of Apple by the number of units sold vs. the number of units sold by competitors worldwide.
Mac OS X is Apple's greatest asset along with its variant, the iPhone OS. But it is only partly exploited because Apple will not licence it.
Apple is extremely successful following the path that they are currently on. Market share - humbug???? I'd rather have profits....which Apple has in spades.
We are talking about retail desktop computer sales, not OS sales.
No, we are talking about retail desktop sales all of which include the cost of an OS (try buying a computer at retail sans OS). Or maybe we are talking about desktop + laptop computer sales (all of which include the cost of an OS).
[CENTER][/CENTER]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
In there, Apple is competing HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer. Microsoft is pretty much out of the picture, because, Microsoft is software vendor only and making money out of Macs as well.
No. Microsoft is right in the center of the picture, they supply a component of most computer systems sold, often the most expensive component.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
I believe significant number of retail-sold Macs will end up bootcamping Windows.
I disagree. Of course you could have wiggle room with your undefined phrase 'significant number'. From personal experience I have never bought a MS OS and don't know a Mac user who has to use on a Mac (most switchers keep their old Windows box until they realize that they don't use it anymore).
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
Since MS is making more money on retail copies compared to what they get from OEMs (per copy), I would not be surprised to learn that Apple is bringing MS more profit than some major OEMs.
I disagree, MS itself characterizes Mac OS sales as a rounding error. Regardless the article and my comment are comparing computer sales not OS sales
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
At the end of the day, Apple computers are just another brand among MS customers. If Apple ever manages to make them self-sufficient, that is, that majority of Mac users don't have any need for Windows, yes that will hurt. But as it is right now...
.... the majority of Mac users do not use Windows on their Macs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
On the other side, after a month only, number of Win 7 copies sold is already competing with total number of OSX installs out there... if you compare OS/software sales between MS and Apple - and that is the only PC segment you can compare them right now - you will realize that MS is in completely different dimension. Comparing software sales with combined software and hardware sales does not make much sense, likewise adding (for example) HP medical equipment, printers etc. numbers into their PC sales comparison against Apple does not make much sense either.
We are discussing desktop and laptop sales all of which include an OS. You introduced the spurious software vs combined software and hardware metric, I only discussed software + hardware. You are in a completely different dimension, what do printers have to do with the discussion?
MS OS is a major cost component of virtually all non Mac OS computers sold at retail. Numbers I've heard: some PC makers as low as 6% gross margin, MS Windows ~85% gross margin (sale to OEM ~$40 - $60).
PC wholesale @ $500, OEM = $30 profit, MS = >$34 profit (home premium)
PC wholesale @ $400, OEM = $24 profit, MS = >$34 profit (home premium)
Don't forget the largest profit proportion of the retail price goes to the retailer not the OEM or OS manufacturer. Retailer will typically take 15% - 20% of the retail price for their overheads and profit, lots of Windows PCs price to retailer are even less than $400 with less profit for OEM and yet no difference in profit for MS.
Here's a guess for you to shoot down, cut of retail computer profits by manufacturer:
Apple: 78%
Microsoft: 14%
All the rest: 8%
But I gotta say even these figures are unimportant, as far as I can see it is impossible that Apple is taking less than half of the profit from US retail computer sales. You have to smile at the temerity of Apple and the incompetence of the others.
To throw something off topic in to the ring, support. Windows OEM support falls on the shoulders of OEMs, ie sucks away OEMs' profit whilst leaving MS's profit untouched.
I believe significant number of retail-sold Macs will end up bootcamping Windows, and that Windows will be retail copy. Since MS is making more money on retail copies compared to what they get from OEMs (per copy), I would not be surprised to learn that Apple is bringing MS more profit than some major OEMs.
I wonder what the number is. Even though MS is surely making money from
selling retail copes of Windows I'd wager they would rarer have the sale come from a non-Mac PC. In the long run it seems that Windows will not be re-purchaed if users get another Mac.
If Chrome OS can hit them at the low end of the market where OS marketshare could be affected easily the. MS may some some very wary shareholders, even if they're still making plenty of profit. A year from now I think we'll know for sure what Chrome OS' minimum impact will be.
Quote:
On the other side, after a month only, number of Win 7 copies sold is already competing with total number of OSX installs out there... if you compare OS/software sales between MS and Apple - and that is the only PC segment you can compare them right now - you will realize that MS is in completely different dimension. Comparing software sales with combined software and hardware sales does not make much sense, likewise adding (for example) HP medical equipment, printers etc. numbers into their PC sales comparison against Apple does not make much sense either.
I think I read just this week that Win7 sales have already surpassed the Mac OS X installed base. That is quite expected since to measure Mac OS X means to measure Mac HW sales.
That is the problem holding back Apple, steep prices.
It would be much more useful to measure the success or failure of Apple by the number of units sold vs. the number of units sold by competitors worldwide.
But Apple is making more profit than the rest of the retail industry combined so how are they held back? Seems to me like the other OEMs are held back by their dependence on Windows and focus on market share.
If you have ever worked for yourself you have heard and likely experienced the meaning of the phrase 'busy fool'.
No, we are talking about retail desktop sales all of which include the cost of an OS (try buying a computer at retail sans OS). Or maybe we are talking about desktop + laptop computer sales (all of which include the cost of an OS).
[CENTER][/CENTER]
No. Microsoft is right in the center of the picture, they supply a component of most computer systems sold, often the most expensive component.
Exactly, MS is providing a component that is almost exclusively used among "Windows" PC manufacturers (though I believe you can get some odd units with Linux pre-installed) but is also option on Macs... however, it is a component, like HDD is a component. I find it illogical to compare component earnings to complete system earnings. For me, only makes sense comparing competing products, and MS products are competing against other OS/office software, not against hardware - especially not against hardware that can (and to some extend does) run MS software.
Quote:
I disagree. Of course you could have wiggle room with your undefined phrase 'significant number'. From personal experience I have never bought a MS OS and don't know a Mac user who has to use on a Mac (most switchers keep their old Windows box until they realize that they don't use it anymore).
True, I have no idea how many Macs are using Windows as well - I have a feeling many among people in this forum, but on global scale... how many Mac users are gamers or need compatibility with their office/school PCs? does anyone have clue?
Quote:
I disagree, MS itself characterizes Mac OS sales as a rounding error. Regardless the article and my comment are comparing computer sales not OS sales
Stevie Ballmer's opinion is hardly relevant, now, isn't it?
Quote:
.... the majority of Mac users do not use Windows on their Macs.
We are discussing desktop and laptop sales all of which include an OS. You introduced the spurious software vs combined software and hardware metric, I only discussed software + hardware. You are in a completely different dimension, what do printers have to do with the discussion?
I'm saying comparing OS sales with OS + hardware sales is like comparing hardware sales with hardware + peripherals sales. At least peripherals are hardware as well, but it still doesn't make sense to me. Likewise, no one is comparing Seagate HDD sales to Apple or HP computer sales, even if Seagate is component of most computers sold.
Quote:
Here's a guess for you to shoot down, cut of retail computer profits by manufacturer:
Apple: 78%
Microsoft: 14%
All the rest: 8%
But I gotta say even these figures are unimportant, as far as I can see it is impossible that Apple is taking less than half of the profit from US retail computer sales. You have to smile at the temerity of Apple and the incompetence of the others.
I don't really have to smile but great job they are doing, no doubt.
But Apple is making more profit than the rest of the retail industry combined so how are they held back? Seems to me like the other OEMs are held back by their dependence on Windows and focus on market share.
If you have ever worked for yourself you have heard and likely experienced the meaning of the phrase 'busy fool'.
Apple is the only one that can differentiate itself. The rest of the generic box makers have no choice but to slum it with Windows, no matter what hardware they offer.
Comments
I figure that means Apple have taken 75%+ of the profit, and Microsoft took the rest except maybe for a single digit percentile.
Love to see quality products doing well. Quality is better value, especially essentials like food. Show 'em the way Apple!
.
Uh, not really.
We are talking about retail desktop computer sales, not OS sales.
In there, Apple is competing HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer. Microsoft is pretty much out of the picture, because, Microsoft is software vendor only and making money out of Macs as well.
I believe significant number of retail-sold Macs will end up bootcamping Windows, and that Windows will be retail copy. Since MS is making more money on retail copies compared to what they get from OEMs (per copy), I would not be surprised to learn that Apple is bringing MS more profit than some major OEMs.
At the end of the day, Apple computers are just another brand among MS customers. If Apple ever manages to make them self-sufficient, that is, that majority of Mac users don't have any need for Windows, yes that will hurt. But as it is right now...
On the other side, after a month only, number of Win 7 copies sold is already competing with total number of OSX installs out there... if you compare OS/software sales between MS and Apple - and that is the only PC segment you can compare them right now - you will realize that MS is in completely different dimension. Comparing software sales with combined software and hardware sales does not make much sense, likewise adding (for example) HP medical equipment, printers etc. numbers into their PC sales comparison against Apple does not make much sense either.
Since Apple doesn’t have an illegal monopoly that is forcing people to buy their PCs it clearly means that people are choosing to pay more on average per PC to get a product they feel is worth the expense.
No- it simply means that PC shoppers were not buying as Windows 7 hadn't been released in this entire perod. The article clearly states that fact - how could you ignore it? On second thought-don't answer that.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE.
So in October, Windows 7 was ONLY AVAILABLE from October 22-31 or approx. 1/3 of the month and we are comparing the two? HAha- FRKN BOGUS!
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE.
REread the article it repeats what you say
except for the bogus part
happy black friday dude
That is the problem holding back Apple, steep prices.
It would be much more useful to measure the success or failure of Apple by the number of units sold vs. the number of units sold by competitors worldwide.
Mac OS X is Apple's greatest asset along with its variant, the iPhone OS. But it is only partly exploited because Apple will not licence it.
Apple is extremely successful following the path that they are currently on. Market share - humbug???? I'd rather have profits....which Apple has in spades.
Uh, not really.
We are talking about retail desktop computer sales, not OS sales.
No, we are talking about retail desktop sales all of which include the cost of an OS (try buying a computer at retail sans OS). Or maybe we are talking about desktop + laptop computer sales (all of which include the cost of an OS).
[CENTER]
In there, Apple is competing HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer. Microsoft is pretty much out of the picture, because, Microsoft is software vendor only and making money out of Macs as well.
No. Microsoft is right in the center of the picture, they supply a component of most computer systems sold, often the most expensive component.
I believe significant number of retail-sold Macs will end up bootcamping Windows.
I disagree. Of course you could have wiggle room with your undefined phrase 'significant number'. From personal experience I have never bought a MS OS and don't know a Mac user who has to use on a Mac (most switchers keep their old Windows box until they realize that they don't use it anymore).
Since MS is making more money on retail copies compared to what they get from OEMs (per copy), I would not be surprised to learn that Apple is bringing MS more profit than some major OEMs.
I disagree, MS itself characterizes Mac OS sales as a rounding error. Regardless the article and my comment are comparing computer sales not OS sales
At the end of the day, Apple computers are just another brand among MS customers. If Apple ever manages to make them self-sufficient, that is, that majority of Mac users don't have any need for Windows, yes that will hurt. But as it is right now...
.... the majority of Mac users do not use Windows on their Macs.
On the other side, after a month only, number of Win 7 copies sold is already competing with total number of OSX installs out there... if you compare OS/software sales between MS and Apple - and that is the only PC segment you can compare them right now - you will realize that MS is in completely different dimension. Comparing software sales with combined software and hardware sales does not make much sense, likewise adding (for example) HP medical equipment, printers etc. numbers into their PC sales comparison against Apple does not make much sense either.
We are discussing desktop and laptop sales all of which include an OS. You introduced the spurious software vs combined software and hardware metric, I only discussed software + hardware. You are in a completely different dimension, what do printers have to do with the discussion?
MS OS is a major cost component of virtually all non Mac OS computers sold at retail. Numbers I've heard: some PC makers as low as 6% gross margin, MS Windows ~85% gross margin (sale to OEM ~$40 - $60).
PC wholesale @ $500, OEM = $30 profit, MS = >$34 profit (home premium)
PC wholesale @ $400, OEM = $24 profit, MS = >$34 profit (home premium)
Don't forget the largest profit proportion of the retail price goes to the retailer not the OEM or OS manufacturer. Retailer will typically take 15% - 20% of the retail price for their overheads and profit, lots of Windows PCs price to retailer are even less than $400 with less profit for OEM and yet no difference in profit for MS.
Here's a guess for you to shoot down, cut of retail computer profits by manufacturer:
Apple: 78%
Microsoft: 14%
All the rest: 8%
But I gotta say even these figures are unimportant, as far as I can see it is impossible that Apple is taking less than half of the profit from US retail computer sales. You have to smile at the temerity of Apple and the incompetence of the others.
To throw something off topic in to the ring, support. Windows OEM support falls on the shoulders of OEMs, ie sucks away OEMs' profit whilst leaving MS's profit untouched.
.
I believe significant number of retail-sold Macs will end up bootcamping Windows, and that Windows will be retail copy. Since MS is making more money on retail copies compared to what they get from OEMs (per copy), I would not be surprised to learn that Apple is bringing MS more profit than some major OEMs.
I wonder what the number is. Even though MS is surely making money from
selling retail copes of Windows I'd wager they would rarer have the sale come from a non-Mac PC. In the long run it seems that Windows will not be re-purchaed if users get another Mac.
If Chrome OS can hit them at the low end of the market where OS marketshare could be affected easily the. MS may some some very wary shareholders, even if they're still making plenty of profit. A year from now I think we'll know for sure what Chrome OS' minimum impact will be.
On the other side, after a month only, number of Win 7 copies sold is already competing with total number of OSX installs out there... if you compare OS/software sales between MS and Apple - and that is the only PC segment you can compare them right now - you will realize that MS is in completely different dimension. Comparing software sales with combined software and hardware sales does not make much sense, likewise adding (for example) HP medical equipment, printers etc. numbers into their PC sales comparison against Apple does not make much sense either.
I think I read just this week that Win7 sales have already surpassed the Mac OS X installed base. That is quite expected since to measure Mac OS X means to measure Mac HW sales.
That is the problem holding back Apple, steep prices.
It would be much more useful to measure the success or failure of Apple by the number of units sold vs. the number of units sold by competitors worldwide.
But Apple is making more profit than the rest of the retail industry combined so how are they held back? Seems to me like the other OEMs are held back by their dependence on Windows and focus on market share.
If you have ever worked for yourself you have heard and likely experienced the meaning of the phrase 'busy fool'.
No, we are talking about retail desktop sales all of which include the cost of an OS (try buying a computer at retail sans OS). Or maybe we are talking about desktop + laptop computer sales (all of which include the cost of an OS).
[CENTER]
No. Microsoft is right in the center of the picture, they supply a component of most computer systems sold, often the most expensive component.
Exactly, MS is providing a component that is almost exclusively used among "Windows" PC manufacturers (though I believe you can get some odd units with Linux pre-installed) but is also option on Macs... however, it is a component, like HDD is a component. I find it illogical to compare component earnings to complete system earnings. For me, only makes sense comparing competing products, and MS products are competing against other OS/office software, not against hardware - especially not against hardware that can (and to some extend does) run MS software.
I disagree. Of course you could have wiggle room with your undefined phrase 'significant number'. From personal experience I have never bought a MS OS and don't know a Mac user who has to use on a Mac (most switchers keep their old Windows box until they realize that they don't use it anymore).
True, I have no idea how many Macs are using Windows as well - I have a feeling many among people in this forum, but on global scale... how many Mac users are gamers or need compatibility with their office/school PCs? does anyone have clue?
I disagree, MS itself characterizes Mac OS sales as a rounding error. Regardless the article and my comment are comparing computer sales not OS sales
Stevie Ballmer's opinion is hardly relevant, now, isn't it?
.... the majority of Mac users do not use Windows on their Macs.
Numbers, anyone..? Quick googling didn't return anything useful.
We are discussing desktop and laptop sales all of which include an OS. You introduced the spurious software vs combined software and hardware metric, I only discussed software + hardware. You are in a completely different dimension, what do printers have to do with the discussion?
I'm saying comparing OS sales with OS + hardware sales is like comparing hardware sales with hardware + peripherals sales. At least peripherals are hardware as well, but it still doesn't make sense to me. Likewise, no one is comparing Seagate HDD sales to Apple or HP computer sales, even if Seagate is component of most computers sold.
Here's a guess for you to shoot down, cut of retail computer profits by manufacturer:
Apple: 78%
Microsoft: 14%
All the rest: 8%
But I gotta say even these figures are unimportant, as far as I can see it is impossible that Apple is taking less than half of the profit from US retail computer sales. You have to smile at the temerity of Apple and the incompetence of the others.
I don't really have to smile
But Apple is making more profit than the rest of the retail industry combined so how are they held back? Seems to me like the other OEMs are held back by their dependence on Windows and focus on market share.
If you have ever worked for yourself you have heard and likely experienced the meaning of the phrase 'busy fool'.
Apple is the only one that can differentiate itself. The rest of the generic box makers have no choice but to slum it with Windows, no matter what hardware they offer.
The vast majority of computers are bought by companies --- and that is NOT included as part of the "retail" consumer sales statistics.
Hence the use of the term ?retail?. Since Apple?s business model isn?t designed for the enterprise I wonder why you?d bring up the obvious.