What the heck is this speed bump? It's about nothing.
Remember when the PowerMac's sold like hotcakes because of the awesome Dual G5 processors in them?
Yea it was basically two computers in one box, Virginia Tech even made a supercomputer out of them that got third place in the world. Video rendering made work farms, geek consumers went nuts with all that power, 3D game developers took out ads in all the Mac related magazines. (then the processor switch bomb dropped of course)
That Dual G5 was so fast for it's time, with a fast bus on each processor that one can run two 3D video games at once. I know I had one, my wallet is still sore from that choice.
Ok, now given that you know that people buy based upon the price for performance, what the heck is a measly 8 core MacPro with common Intel processors going to do when Intel releases the 40 core, 80 core and 100 core processors? as early as NEXT YEAR!
Are these going into Apple's vertical one size fits all consumer Mac's lineup?
Hell NO!! Too expensive and specialized for all that power.
These awesome processors are going into specialty PC boxes for the video industry and that means Windows and the 3rd party software will follow. Even Apple most likely already has their video software running on Windows just as a precaution.
Goodbye MacPro. Goodbye any left of the pro's using Apple's gear and perhaps their software, they will have to follow the processor power. Because time = money and more processor power the better.
This is Apple's problem, a limited product line. They should be much more flexible.
The X-server is not even worth buying now that they use common Intel processors like anyone else, the X-RAID IS GONE! POOF!
The MacPro is next to be gone. Bye Bye!
Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are no longer a "computer" company, but rather a consumer electronics product company.
Apple makes stuff that sometimes can be used in business and enterprise, like the G5's or the iPhone, but Apple doesn't specialize in that market, favoring the consumer market instead.
Now unless Apple changes up and makes OS X run on these huge core processors and offers special order MacPro's with them, kiss the MacPro use amongst most power needing professionals goodbye.
It would be a radical change from Apple's limited vertical product line, a much needed change.
You have to go with the flow and Apple likes to force it's way.
Dude... that is not going to happen. Intel's 40core chips are not going to be in any consumer machines for soime time. It would be waaaaay to $$$ to even consider it. Only the very very high govt/ scientific community will be able to use these for number crunching etc.. yes the movie community and 3d studio render farms might get them as well, but those shops tend to have capital to purchase such tech. However I could be wrong. But I do not se Apple killing the MacPro at all.
What the heck is this speed bump? It's about nothing.
Remember when the PowerMac's sold like hotcakes because of the awesome Dual G5 processors in them?
Yea it was basically two computers in one box, Virginia Tech even made a supercomputer out of them that got third place in the world. Video rendering made work farms, geek consumers went nuts with all that power, 3D game developers took out ads in all the Mac related magazines. (then the processor switch bomb dropped of course)
That Dual G5 was so fast for it's time, with a fast bus on each processor that one can run two 3D video games at once. I know I had one, my wallet is still sore from that choice.
Ok, now given that you know that people buy based upon the price for performance, what the heck is a measly 8 core MacPro with common Intel processors going to do when Intel releases the 40 core, 80 core and 100 core processors? as early as NEXT YEAR!
Are these going into Apple's vertical one size fits all consumer Mac's lineup?
Hell NO!! Too expensive and specialized for all that power.
These awesome processors are going into specialty PC boxes for the video industry and that means Windows and the 3rd party software will follow. Even Apple most likely already has their video software running on Windows just as a precaution.
Goodbye MacPro. Goodbye any left of the pro's using Apple's gear and perhaps their software, they will have to follow the processor power. Because time = money and more processor power the better.
This is Apple's problem, a limited product line. They should be much more flexible.
The X-server is not even worth buying now that they use common Intel processors like anyone else, the X-RAID IS GONE! POOF!
The MacPro is next to be gone. Bye Bye!
Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are no longer a "computer" company, but rather a consumer electronics product company.
Apple makes stuff that sometimes can be used in business and enterprise, like the G5's or the iPhone, but Apple doesn't specialize in that market, favoring the consumer market instead.
Now unless Apple changes up and makes OS X run on these huge core processors and offers special order MacPro's with them, kiss the MacPro use amongst most power needing professionals goodbye.
It would be a radical change from Apple's limited vertical product line, a much needed change.
You have to go with the flow and Apple likes to force it's way.
the 40 core CPU's are custom made for research purposes. with current technology there is no way Intel can make a 40 core CPU and sell it at a price people are willing to pay
I have seen every top end Mac since the day they came out with the Mac II have a 'major upgrade' to the current offering ... always a short whole prior to a complete line up change. Buyer beware
Yes, I know the "xMac" has been beaten to death but hear me out. The last update we saw the processor(s) and memory get moved to a processor tray (i.e. daughter card) making it easy for Apple to have different CPU/memory configurations. The low-end model will have a single Core i7 with three memory slots and the high-end model will have dual Zeons with eight memory slots.
Apple doesn't even have to worry about the name because the low-end (i.e. xMac) will be the Mac Prosumer and the high-end will be the Mac Professional.
Yes, I know the "xMac" has been beaten to death but hear me out. The last update we saw the processor(s) and memory get moved to a processor tray (i.e. daughter card) making it easy for Apple to have different CPU/memory configurations. The low-end model will have a single Core i7 with three memory slots and the high-end model will have dual Zeons with eight memory slots.
Apple doesn't even have to worry about the name because the low-end (i.e. xMac) will be the Mac Prosumer and the high-end will be the Mac Professional.
I hope you are right. I want an i7-powered headless Mac.
I never did until my last MBP. The price was about $20 more Apple?s 4GB RAM upgrade over getting 4GB from Newegg. They seem to really come down on their RAM prices. They are still more than HP and Dell, but not my much. Overall, for the upgrade I got is the right choice.
Granted, I didn?t get to keep the old 2GB but I would have never used it and this gives me a 3 year warranty from Apple. Also, i?ve had problems with 3rd-party RAM before. Not often and could always return it, but that can be a problem. I?ve never had a single problem with Apple?s RAM.
There is no such thing as Apple RAM. Its made by Samsung. At least every stick I have ever seen since going intel has been made by Samsung.
I've considered a Hackintosh for my personal computer. The only problem is that, for every software update, you need to:
Wait to find out whether it breaks Hackintoshes or not (do research on related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
If it does break Hackintoshes, then you need to wait until someone's found a workaround for the issue (again, watching related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
Potentially follow a highly technical set of steps to do the workaround in order to update
All of which requires a certain amount of time and effort which you may or may not have all the time.
So it's a tradeoff: if that couple hundred dollars you save initially means more to you than spending time doing research with every update, then go for it. For some of us, time is more important than saving a couple hundred bucks.
Mac Pros are comparably priced with their like kind from HP and others. You are paying for build quality and thus longevity. I have a rack stuffed with various Mac Pros and elderly G5s that still pull their weight. Failures are infrequent and when they happen Apple Care has taken care of the issue quickly and thus paid for itself.
I can't take the risk of using a home built system for a profit center in my facility. When I buy computers I buy the high end name brands like HP, IBM and Apple because they have the power, the durability and the support I need. I do have several home built PCs installed, but none of them perform a critical task. The business can run without them. the business can't run without my Macs. As long as the Mac Pro is made I will buy it.
I hope you are right. I want an i7-powered headless Mac.
After doing some research, I have found out that the quad-core Xeon 3500 processor in the Mac Pro is a Bloomsfield series i7. The 2.66ghz version sells for $290 on NewEgg. The 2.8ghz Lynnfield i7 in the iMac also sells for $290 on NewEgg.
What does this mean? Apple is completely gouging people who buy a quad-core Mac Pro. That machine should sell for at least $500 less than what its going for.
I'm going to do some serious soul-searching in the next couple of months. Do I really want a 27" iMac or do I build a Hackintosh? Option 3 would be to build the Hackintosh and if it doesn't work, I'll throw Windows 7 on it and use that for my video and photo stuff. At least Photoshop is 64-bit on Windows.
I never did until my last MBP. The price was about $20 more Apple’s 4GB RAM upgrade over getting 4GB from Newegg. They seem to really come down on their RAM prices. They are still more than HP and Dell, but not my much. Overall, for the upgrade I got is the right choice.
Granted, I didn’t get to keep the old 2GB but I would have never used it and this gives me a 3 year warranty from Apple. Also, i’ve had problems with 3rd-party RAM before. Not often and could always return it, but that can be a problem. I’ve never had a single problem with Apple’s RAM.
You should be fine if you buy name brands of the same specs. I've never had a problem. But if it's only $20 difference, then that's fair enough.
Most internal desktop hard drives come with a 3 to 5 year warranty, and manufacturers seem to be honoring their warranties just fine, the few times I've needed it, they're prompt and easy to deal with. The convenience of going to Apple to deal with the manufacturer doesn't seem to be worth the ~$350 markup on the 2TB hard drives ($550 total for a second drive). Even assuming Apple uses enterprise drives (they don't seem to say that), that's still a $250 markup. Even if it's about the value of your time (pros usually have a high billing rate), servicing the drive yourself should take less time than bringing the machine in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa
Dude... that is not going to happen. Intel's 40core chips are not going to be in any consumer machines for soime time. It would be waaaaay to $$$ to even consider it. Only the very very high govt/ scientific community will be able to use these for number crunching etc.. yes the movie community and 3d studio render farms might get them as well, but those shops tend to have capital to purchase such tech. However I could be wrong.
One minor issue with your comment, Mac Pro isn't a consumer machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff66
After doing some research, I have found out that the quad-core Xeon 3500 processor in the Mac Pro is a Bloomsfield series i7. The 2.66ghz version sells for $290 on NewEgg. The 2.8ghz Lynnfield i7 in the iMac also sells for $290 on NewEgg.
What does this mean? Apple is completely gouging people who buy a quad-core Mac Pro. That machine should sell for at least $500 less than what its going for.
I doubt Apple takes an i7 and sell it as a Xeon. That's Intel's doing. It's not necessarily the exact same chip, though it could be. The Xeons generally go through some additional testing even if they're from the same production line, they're rated for slightly wider operational temperatures and rated to use slightly less power too. I expect that maybe the Xeon supports ECC memory while the i7 might not - but I will look that up when I have more time.
We need a Mac Pro with desktop class CPUs. Xeons and the associated logic boards offer not much more for a lot more money. A single processor MP costs more than a dual processor MP did when first released 3+ years ago.
I've considered a Hackintosh for my personal computer. The only problem is that, for every software update, you need to:
Wait to find out whether it breaks Hackintoshes or not (do research on related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
If it does break Hackintoshes, then you need to wait until someone's found a workaround for the issue (again, watching related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
Potentially follow a highly technical set of steps to do the workaround in order to update
All of which requires a certain amount of time and effort which you may or may not have all the time.
So it's a tradeoff: if that couple hundred dollars you save initially means more to you than spending time doing research with every update, then go for it. For some of us, time is more important than saving a couple hundred bucks.
Simple solution:
If your time is worth that much then buy from Apple.
If you rush to install every update before seeing any feedback on it then buy from Apple.
If you can follow instructions, have another device to access the internet and can afford a little computer down time then a hackintosh may be for you. It'll be more effort, but the up front saving is typically in the $1000-1500 range.
Need more evidence directly from Apple? Try to configure a Mac Pro that matches the Core i7 iMac in features and performance.
iMac $2200
Mac Pro $2500 plus upgraded CPU, Radeon 4870, 1TB HD, 27" IPS display = approx. $4800
So PCI slots and drive bays (two things that are free in the PC world) plus ECC RAM and the dubious differences between a mainstream CPU and a Xeon cost $2600!!
Apple doesn't offer a prosumer tower because it would cost them a lot of profit. There will never be an xMac.
I've considered a Hackintosh for my personal computer. The only problem is that, for every software update, you need to:
Wait to find out whether it breaks Hackintoshes or not (do research on related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
If it does break Hackintoshes, then you need to wait until someone's found a workaround for the issue (again, watching related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
Potentially follow a highly technical set of steps to do the workaround in order to update
That was a huge problem with some of the earliest hacks, but from what I understand the Hackintosh community has for the most part moved on from that. They've got a bootloader now that will allow one to use a retail copy of Leopard or Snow Leopard.
The only update since that has broken anything, as far as I know, is 10.6.2 when Apple removed support for the Atom processor causing the Hackintosh netbooks to die. If you use components similar to Apple's, I really can't see Apple breaking your setup without really going out of their way to do so. Not that they wouldn't, but there'd be a lot of noise about it even here well beforehand.
Anyway, I don't know why you're so crazy about updating as soon as possible. On my Macs I've had some trouble in the past with updating day of. Apple isn't perfect with its own hardware. I tend to wait a few days and see if that ominous article headline "Mac OS 10.x.x update killing the bunnyMacs" shows up before clicking update.
Seriously, a five day wait and perhaps ten seconds of reading headlines. Given a fair amount of updates, we're looking at two or three minutes of work for the life of the machine.
What the heck is this speed bump? It's about nothing.
Remember when the PowerMac's sold like hotcakes because of the awesome Dual G5 processors in them?
Yea it was basically two computers in one box, Virginia Tech even made a supercomputer out of them that got third place in the world. Video rendering made work farms, geek consumers went nuts with all that power, 3D game developers took out ads in all the Mac related magazines. (then the processor switch bomb dropped of course)
That Dual G5 was so fast for it's time, with a fast bus on each processor that one can run two 3D video games at once. I know I had one, my wallet is still sore from that choice.
Ok, now given that you know that people buy based upon the price for performance, what the heck is a measly 8 core MacPro with common Intel processors going to do when Intel releases the 40 core, 80 core and 100 core processors? as early as NEXT YEAR!
Are these going into Apple's vertical one size fits all consumer Mac's lineup?
Hell NO!! Too expensive and specialized for all that power.
These awesome processors are going into specialty PC boxes for the video industry and that means Windows and the 3rd party software will follow. Even Apple most likely already has their video software running on Windows just as a precaution.
Goodbye MacPro. Goodbye any left of the pro's using Apple's gear and perhaps their software, they will have to follow the processor power. Because time = money and more processor power the better.
This is Apple's problem, a limited product line. They should be much more flexible.
The X-server is not even worth buying now that they use common Intel processors like anyone else, the X-RAID IS GONE! POOF!
The MacPro is next to be gone. Bye Bye!
Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are no longer a "computer" company, but rather a consumer electronics product company.
Apple makes stuff that sometimes can be used in business and enterprise, like the G5's or the iPhone, but Apple doesn't specialize in that market, favoring the consumer market instead.
Now unless Apple changes up and makes OS X run on these huge core processors and offers special order MacPro's with them, kiss the MacPro use amongst most power needing professionals goodbye.
It would be a radical change from Apple's limited vertical product line, a much needed change.
You have to go with the flow and Apple likes to force it's way.
The reason Mac Pros cost so much is because media companies are the ones buying these because they are the ones who don't worry so much about the price. Why lower the price when they are selling "like hot-cakes" to companies like Pixar and Dreamworks who do very complex Animated Movies on the Mac Pros.
I have been reading the posts here and I want to help clear some questions and assumptions.
1. OS X Updates: if a hackintosh is installed with a Retail version of OS X (mainly SL) and the hardware does not include an Atom processor (netbook), then there is no issues. It's just like updating a regular Mac. Here are two nice guides on how to do it: Lifehacker , teknojunkie
Also, just type "hackintosh" in YouTube... a lot of videos and visual guides can be found there.
2. How does a retail version of OS X works on a hackintosh?
If the hardware of the hackintosh is supported by OS X, then the only remaining issue left is how does OS X communicate with this hardware when it boots. As you know, PCs use a BIOS system while Macs use the more advanced EFI. So what is needed is some sort of software that "translates" to OS X what the BIOS says (in human terms, it's like translating from Chinese to English). This translation software is called "Boot Loader" and the best (by far) on the scene is called Chameleon. Additionally, like Boot Camp, this software also allows multiple OSs to be installed on the Hackintosh. I have it installed on mine and I am running OS X and Windows 7. It is also a graphical boot loader so it is dead easy to use. You install it like you install every other Mac program.
3. Updates in general: if you installed a retail Mac OS X, you update just like a normal mac - via the Apple Update Application or by downloading a combo update. However, as any Mac user out there, it is wise to wait a day or two before you do any update on a Mac or a Hackintosh. A good place to read news about everything-hackintosh is here: Insanely Mac.
Bottom line: most of the people reading about hackintoshes for the first time think "Meh... it's too complicated" and as Mac users are (including me), we want it to just work when we buy it. Well, it is not difficult to build a hackintosh if you just follow the guides. Last but not least, it is a lot of fun to build one.
My "HackPro" is running on:
Intel Quad 6600 2.4Ghz CPU
Intel DragonTail Motherboard with on-Board LAN and Sound (just like a Mac)
8 GB DDR2 800Mhz RAM
GeForce 9800GTX+ 512MB
Two 320GB SATA HDs
DVD-RW SATA
Nice Thermaltake black case with quite fans and power supply.
Mac OS Leopard 10.5.8 that identifies my HackPro as "Mac Pro 2,1"
A machine like this today will cost under $1,000 and trust me, it flies!
Boots under 15 seconds and works great with all the pro apps.
There is no such thing as Apple RAM. Its made by Samsung. At least every stick I have ever seen since going intel has been made by Samsung.
You read Apple RAM and didn?t understand that I meant RAM supplied by, tested, installed and warrantied by Apple?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
You should be fine if you buy name brands of the same specs. I've never had a problem. But if it's only $20 difference, then that's fair enough.
At first I didn?t buy the additional RAM. I stuck with the 2x1GB. Went to Frys and got 2x2GB Patriot RAM. It had good timing and latency, was rated well and was fairly inexpensive.It
didn?t work. I thought ti was faulty and took it back for two more sticks. Same thing. It had now been about 3 weeks but I called up an Apple Store, talked to a manager and they agreed to put in their RAM for the at-time-of-purchase price. No problems.
PS: With the next Macs waiting may be advised to see if Apple has reversed their wonky SATA connection that is making many a 3rd-party drives not work. Who knows what they are doing but a HDD is the one piece of HW in a computer that should be truly universal.
Comments
The MacPro line is going to die.
What the heck is this speed bump? It's about nothing.
Remember when the PowerMac's sold like hotcakes because of the awesome Dual G5 processors in them?
Yea it was basically two computers in one box, Virginia Tech even made a supercomputer out of them that got third place in the world. Video rendering made work farms, geek consumers went nuts with all that power, 3D game developers took out ads in all the Mac related magazines. (then the processor switch bomb dropped of course)
That Dual G5 was so fast for it's time, with a fast bus on each processor that one can run two 3D video games at once. I know I had one, my wallet is still sore from that choice.
Ok, now given that you know that people buy based upon the price for performance, what the heck is a measly 8 core MacPro with common Intel processors going to do when Intel releases the 40 core, 80 core and 100 core processors? as early as NEXT YEAR!
Are these going into Apple's vertical one size fits all consumer Mac's lineup?
Hell NO!! Too expensive and specialized for all that power.
These awesome processors are going into specialty PC boxes for the video industry and that means Windows and the 3rd party software will follow. Even Apple most likely already has their video software running on Windows just as a precaution.
Goodbye MacPro. Goodbye any left of the pro's using Apple's gear and perhaps their software, they will have to follow the processor power. Because time = money and more processor power the better.
This is Apple's problem, a limited product line. They should be much more flexible.
The X-server is not even worth buying now that they use common Intel processors like anyone else, the X-RAID IS GONE! POOF!
The MacPro is next to be gone. Bye Bye!
Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are no longer a "computer" company, but rather a consumer electronics product company.
Apple makes stuff that sometimes can be used in business and enterprise, like the G5's or the iPhone, but Apple doesn't specialize in that market, favoring the consumer market instead.
Now unless Apple changes up and makes OS X run on these huge core processors and offers special order MacPro's with them, kiss the MacPro use amongst most power needing professionals goodbye.
It would be a radical change from Apple's limited vertical product line, a much needed change.
You have to go with the flow and Apple likes to force it's way.
Dude... that is not going to happen. Intel's 40core chips are not going to be in any consumer machines for soime time. It would be waaaaay to $$$ to even consider it. Only the very very high govt/ scientific community will be able to use these for number crunching etc.. yes the movie community and 3d studio render farms might get them as well, but those shops tend to have capital to purchase such tech. However I could be wrong. But I do not se Apple killing the MacPro at all.
That's interesting. Care to enlighten me, please?
http://www.osx86project.org/
The MacPro line is going to die.
What the heck is this speed bump? It's about nothing.
Remember when the PowerMac's sold like hotcakes because of the awesome Dual G5 processors in them?
Yea it was basically two computers in one box, Virginia Tech even made a supercomputer out of them that got third place in the world. Video rendering made work farms, geek consumers went nuts with all that power, 3D game developers took out ads in all the Mac related magazines. (then the processor switch bomb dropped of course)
That Dual G5 was so fast for it's time, with a fast bus on each processor that one can run two 3D video games at once. I know I had one, my wallet is still sore from that choice.
Ok, now given that you know that people buy based upon the price for performance, what the heck is a measly 8 core MacPro with common Intel processors going to do when Intel releases the 40 core, 80 core and 100 core processors? as early as NEXT YEAR!
Are these going into Apple's vertical one size fits all consumer Mac's lineup?
Hell NO!! Too expensive and specialized for all that power.
These awesome processors are going into specialty PC boxes for the video industry and that means Windows and the 3rd party software will follow. Even Apple most likely already has their video software running on Windows just as a precaution.
Goodbye MacPro. Goodbye any left of the pro's using Apple's gear and perhaps their software, they will have to follow the processor power. Because time = money and more processor power the better.
This is Apple's problem, a limited product line. They should be much more flexible.
The X-server is not even worth buying now that they use common Intel processors like anyone else, the X-RAID IS GONE! POOF!
The MacPro is next to be gone. Bye Bye!
Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are no longer a "computer" company, but rather a consumer electronics product company.
Apple makes stuff that sometimes can be used in business and enterprise, like the G5's or the iPhone, but Apple doesn't specialize in that market, favoring the consumer market instead.
Now unless Apple changes up and makes OS X run on these huge core processors and offers special order MacPro's with them, kiss the MacPro use amongst most power needing professionals goodbye.
It would be a radical change from Apple's limited vertical product line, a much needed change.
You have to go with the flow and Apple likes to force it's way.
the 40 core CPU's are custom made for research purposes. with current technology there is no way Intel can make a 40 core CPU and sell it at a price people are willing to pay
Apple doesn't even have to worry about the name because the low-end (i.e. xMac) will be the Mac Prosumer and the high-end will be the Mac Professional.
That's interesting. Care to enlighten me, please?
Yep here is a very easy step by step....sort of a Hackintosh for dummies!
http://lifehacker.com/5351485/how-to...tart-to-finish
Yes, I know the "xMac" has been beaten to death but hear me out. The last update we saw the processor(s) and memory get moved to a processor tray (i.e. daughter card) making it easy for Apple to have different CPU/memory configurations. The low-end model will have a single Core i7 with three memory slots and the high-end model will have dual Zeons with eight memory slots.
Apple doesn't even have to worry about the name because the low-end (i.e. xMac) will be the Mac Prosumer and the high-end will be the Mac Professional.
I hope you are right. I want an i7-powered headless Mac.
I never did until my last MBP. The price was about $20 more Apple?s 4GB RAM upgrade over getting 4GB from Newegg. They seem to really come down on their RAM prices. They are still more than HP and Dell, but not my much. Overall, for the upgrade I got is the right choice.
Granted, I didn?t get to keep the old 2GB but I would have never used it and this gives me a 3 year warranty from Apple. Also, i?ve had problems with 3rd-party RAM before. Not often and could always return it, but that can be a problem. I?ve never had a single problem with Apple?s RAM.
There is no such thing as Apple RAM. Its made by Samsung. At least every stick I have ever seen since going intel has been made by Samsung.
- Wait to find out whether it breaks Hackintoshes or not (do research on related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
- If it does break Hackintoshes, then you need to wait until someone's found a workaround for the issue (again, watching related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
- Potentially follow a highly technical set of steps to do the workaround in order to update
All of which requires a certain amount of time and effort which you may or may not have all the time.So it's a tradeoff: if that couple hundred dollars you save initially means more to you than spending time doing research with every update, then go for it. For some of us, time is more important than saving a couple hundred bucks.
I can't take the risk of using a home built system for a profit center in my facility. When I buy computers I buy the high end name brands like HP, IBM and Apple because they have the power, the durability and the support I need. I do have several home built PCs installed, but none of them perform a critical task. The business can run without them. the business can't run without my Macs. As long as the Mac Pro is made I will buy it.
I hope you are right. I want an i7-powered headless Mac.
After doing some research, I have found out that the quad-core Xeon 3500 processor in the Mac Pro is a Bloomsfield series i7. The 2.66ghz version sells for $290 on NewEgg. The 2.8ghz Lynnfield i7 in the iMac also sells for $290 on NewEgg.
What does this mean? Apple is completely gouging people who buy a quad-core Mac Pro. That machine should sell for at least $500 less than what its going for.
I'm going to do some serious soul-searching in the next couple of months. Do I really want a 27" iMac or do I build a Hackintosh? Option 3 would be to build the Hackintosh and if it doesn't work, I'll throw Windows 7 on it and use that for my video and photo stuff. At least Photoshop is 64-bit on Windows.
http://www.google.com/products/catal...wBA#ps-sellers
I never did until my last MBP. The price was about $20 more Apple’s 4GB RAM upgrade over getting 4GB from Newegg. They seem to really come down on their RAM prices. They are still more than HP and Dell, but not my much. Overall, for the upgrade I got is the right choice.
Granted, I didn’t get to keep the old 2GB but I would have never used it and this gives me a 3 year warranty from Apple. Also, i’ve had problems with 3rd-party RAM before. Not often and could always return it, but that can be a problem. I’ve never had a single problem with Apple’s RAM.
You should be fine if you buy name brands of the same specs. I've never had a problem. But if it's only $20 difference, then that's fair enough.
Most internal desktop hard drives come with a 3 to 5 year warranty, and manufacturers seem to be honoring their warranties just fine, the few times I've needed it, they're prompt and easy to deal with. The convenience of going to Apple to deal with the manufacturer doesn't seem to be worth the ~$350 markup on the 2TB hard drives ($550 total for a second drive). Even assuming Apple uses enterprise drives (they don't seem to say that), that's still a $250 markup. Even if it's about the value of your time (pros usually have a high billing rate), servicing the drive yourself should take less time than bringing the machine in.
Dude... that is not going to happen. Intel's 40core chips are not going to be in any consumer machines for soime time. It would be waaaaay to $$$ to even consider it. Only the very very high govt/ scientific community will be able to use these for number crunching etc.. yes the movie community and 3d studio render farms might get them as well, but those shops tend to have capital to purchase such tech. However I could be wrong.
One minor issue with your comment, Mac Pro isn't a consumer machine.
After doing some research, I have found out that the quad-core Xeon 3500 processor in the Mac Pro is a Bloomsfield series i7. The 2.66ghz version sells for $290 on NewEgg. The 2.8ghz Lynnfield i7 in the iMac also sells for $290 on NewEgg.
What does this mean? Apple is completely gouging people who buy a quad-core Mac Pro. That machine should sell for at least $500 less than what its going for.
I doubt Apple takes an i7 and sell it as a Xeon. That's Intel's doing. It's not necessarily the exact same chip, though it could be. The Xeons generally go through some additional testing even if they're from the same production line, they're rated for slightly wider operational temperatures and rated to use slightly less power too. I expect that maybe the Xeon supports ECC memory while the i7 might not - but I will look that up when I have more time.
I've considered a Hackintosh for my personal computer. The only problem is that, for every software update, you need to:
- Wait to find out whether it breaks Hackintoshes or not (do research on related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
- If it does break Hackintoshes, then you need to wait until someone's found a workaround for the issue (again, watching related websites/blogs/forums/IRC channels/etc)
- Potentially follow a highly technical set of steps to do the workaround in order to update
All of which requires a certain amount of time and effort which you may or may not have all the time.So it's a tradeoff: if that couple hundred dollars you save initially means more to you than spending time doing research with every update, then go for it. For some of us, time is more important than saving a couple hundred bucks.
Simple solution:
If your time is worth that much then buy from Apple.
If you rush to install every update before seeing any feedback on it then buy from Apple.
If you can follow instructions, have another device to access the internet and can afford a little computer down time then a hackintosh may be for you. It'll be more effort, but the up front saving is typically in the $1000-1500 range.
Need more evidence directly from Apple? Try to configure a Mac Pro that matches the Core i7 iMac in features and performance.
iMac $2200
Mac Pro $2500 plus upgraded CPU, Radeon 4870, 1TB HD, 27" IPS display = approx. $4800
So PCI slots and drive bays (two things that are free in the PC world) plus ECC RAM and the dubious differences between a mainstream CPU and a Xeon cost $2600!!
Apple doesn't offer a prosumer tower because it would cost them a lot of profit. There will never be an xMac.
I've considered a Hackintosh for my personal computer. The only problem is that, for every software update, you need to:
That was a huge problem with some of the earliest hacks, but from what I understand the Hackintosh community has for the most part moved on from that. They've got a bootloader now that will allow one to use a retail copy of Leopard or Snow Leopard.
The only update since that has broken anything, as far as I know, is 10.6.2 when Apple removed support for the Atom processor causing the Hackintosh netbooks to die. If you use components similar to Apple's, I really can't see Apple breaking your setup without really going out of their way to do so. Not that they wouldn't, but there'd be a lot of noise about it even here well beforehand.
Anyway, I don't know why you're so crazy about updating as soon as possible. On my Macs I've had some trouble in the past with updating day of. Apple isn't perfect with its own hardware. I tend to wait a few days and see if that ominous article headline "Mac OS 10.x.x update killing the bunnyMacs" shows up before clicking update.
Seriously, a five day wait and perhaps ten seconds of reading headlines. Given a fair amount of updates, we're looking at two or three minutes of work for the life of the machine.
The MacPro line is going to die.
What the heck is this speed bump? It's about nothing.
Remember when the PowerMac's sold like hotcakes because of the awesome Dual G5 processors in them?
Yea it was basically two computers in one box, Virginia Tech even made a supercomputer out of them that got third place in the world. Video rendering made work farms, geek consumers went nuts with all that power, 3D game developers took out ads in all the Mac related magazines. (then the processor switch bomb dropped of course)
That Dual G5 was so fast for it's time, with a fast bus on each processor that one can run two 3D video games at once. I know I had one, my wallet is still sore from that choice.
Ok, now given that you know that people buy based upon the price for performance, what the heck is a measly 8 core MacPro with common Intel processors going to do when Intel releases the 40 core, 80 core and 100 core processors? as early as NEXT YEAR!
Are these going into Apple's vertical one size fits all consumer Mac's lineup?
Hell NO!! Too expensive and specialized for all that power.
These awesome processors are going into specialty PC boxes for the video industry and that means Windows and the 3rd party software will follow. Even Apple most likely already has their video software running on Windows just as a precaution.
Goodbye MacPro. Goodbye any left of the pro's using Apple's gear and perhaps their software, they will have to follow the processor power. Because time = money and more processor power the better.
This is Apple's problem, a limited product line. They should be much more flexible.
The X-server is not even worth buying now that they use common Intel processors like anyone else, the X-RAID IS GONE! POOF!
The MacPro is next to be gone. Bye Bye!
Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are no longer a "computer" company, but rather a consumer electronics product company.
Apple makes stuff that sometimes can be used in business and enterprise, like the G5's or the iPhone, but Apple doesn't specialize in that market, favoring the consumer market instead.
Now unless Apple changes up and makes OS X run on these huge core processors and offers special order MacPro's with them, kiss the MacPro use amongst most power needing professionals goodbye.
It would be a radical change from Apple's limited vertical product line, a much needed change.
You have to go with the flow and Apple likes to force it's way.
The reason Mac Pros cost so much is because media companies are the ones buying these because they are the ones who don't worry so much about the price. Why lower the price when they are selling "like hot-cakes" to companies like Pixar and Dreamworks who do very complex Animated Movies on the Mac Pros.
I have been reading the posts here and I want to help clear some questions and assumptions.
1. OS X Updates: if a hackintosh is installed with a Retail version of OS X (mainly SL) and the hardware does not include an Atom processor (netbook), then there is no issues. It's just like updating a regular Mac. Here are two nice guides on how to do it: Lifehacker , teknojunkie
Also, just type "hackintosh" in YouTube... a lot of videos and visual guides can be found there.
2. How does a retail version of OS X works on a hackintosh?
If the hardware of the hackintosh is supported by OS X, then the only remaining issue left is how does OS X communicate with this hardware when it boots. As you know, PCs use a BIOS system while Macs use the more advanced EFI. So what is needed is some sort of software that "translates" to OS X what the BIOS says (in human terms, it's like translating from Chinese to English). This translation software is called "Boot Loader" and the best (by far) on the scene is called Chameleon. Additionally, like Boot Camp, this software also allows multiple OSs to be installed on the Hackintosh. I have it installed on mine and I am running OS X and Windows 7. It is also a graphical boot loader so it is dead easy to use. You install it like you install every other Mac program.
3. Updates in general: if you installed a retail Mac OS X, you update just like a normal mac - via the Apple Update Application or by downloading a combo update. However, as any Mac user out there, it is wise to wait a day or two before you do any update on a Mac or a Hackintosh. A good place to read news about everything-hackintosh is here: Insanely Mac.
Bottom line: most of the people reading about hackintoshes for the first time think "Meh... it's too complicated" and as Mac users are (including me), we want it to just work when we buy it. Well, it is not difficult to build a hackintosh if you just follow the guides. Last but not least, it is a lot of fun to build one.
My "HackPro" is running on:
Intel Quad 6600 2.4Ghz CPU
Intel DragonTail Motherboard with on-Board LAN and Sound (just like a Mac)
8 GB DDR2 800Mhz RAM
GeForce 9800GTX+ 512MB
Two 320GB SATA HDs
DVD-RW SATA
Nice Thermaltake black case with quite fans and power supply.
Mac OS Leopard 10.5.8 that identifies my HackPro as "Mac Pro 2,1"
A machine like this today will cost under $1,000 and trust me, it flies!
Boots under 15 seconds and works great with all the pro apps.
Good job at telling me I'm totally wrong without giving your views why.
Your reply is nothing more than a troll, are you trolling?
Because you can be ignored. :cool:
As if your certainty of being right depends on me telling you why you're wrong. Hah.
There is no such thing as Apple RAM. Its made by Samsung. At least every stick I have ever seen since going intel has been made by Samsung.
You read Apple RAM and didn?t understand that I meant RAM supplied by, tested, installed and warrantied by Apple?
You should be fine if you buy name brands of the same specs. I've never had a problem. But if it's only $20 difference, then that's fair enough.
At first I didn?t buy the additional RAM. I stuck with the 2x1GB. Went to Frys and got 2x2GB Patriot RAM. It had good timing and latency, was rated well and was fairly inexpensive.It
didn?t work. I thought ti was faulty and took it back for two more sticks. Same thing. It had now been about 3 weeks but I called up an Apple Store, talked to a manager and they agreed to put in their RAM for the at-time-of-purchase price. No problems.
PS: With the next Macs waiting may be advised to see if Apple has reversed their wonky SATA connection that is making many a 3rd-party drives not work. Who knows what they are doing but a HDD is the one piece of HW in a computer that should be truly universal.