druble - Your obviously a windows/pc lover .....so why are you posting on APPLEinsider?? If you hate "Fanboys" who love macs so much, why are you here on a MAC driven website?
Further more....Why are we "fanboys" & "whiners" because we want WHAT WE AGREED TO IN THE CONTRACT.
IF at&t said, "Ok here is a data plan chart choose one..." and the highest amount available was 5gb....I would not have bought the phone! I bought the phone BECAUSE it was unlimited!
And for those that want a tiered price system.....someone already said it here....but that tier will START @ 30.00 a month.....YOU WATCH!
If they want to change the plan later, then fine, but for the next two years I get UNLIMITED data for $30.00...and for those that want to say I am WHINING.....PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, lets write up a contract together, agree on the terms, then I will change those terms a day later, but I don't want to hear a peep out of you! Lets make it something good to....like, your mortgage! I'm sure people would be just fine if mortgage contracts were changed at the last minute!!
and really lets be honest here....EVERYONE, Comcast/Verizon/ATT/TMobile they ALL charge WAY TOO MUCH for broadband access. $40.00 a month for home broadband is a completely rip off. Why is it a rip off? Think about it.....when broadband started being offered everywhere, about 9 years ago (roughly) the price was 40.00.....now here we are almost 10 years later with TWICE the amount of people using it, and that cost can't come down? Remember when dial up used to cost 29.99 a month? Now its practically free...in some cases completely free.....but still broadband does not budge!
A friend of mine had Altell Unlimited $49.00 way, way back when. Too many people took up on the offer and went wild on the minutes because she got a letter from Altell stating that they were changing the Plan. When she called to complain, she was told by Altell "Tough Cookies, Your Plan IS Changed!"
She canceled (without penalty since Altell breached) and went with another carrier.
Should this come to fruition, I hope you and everyone on the plan has better luck then my friend, but don't count on it. Sure you can have a class action suit followed by appeals from both sides, but I'm just passing on from what my friend experienced is all. Besides AT&T doesn't have to worry about rankings amongst the cell phone carriers since they are already last...
I remember that. The fine print says they can change the plans at any time since the contract is to hold you to the plan not the other way around. But if they essentially rip up the contract then you no longer are tied to that contract by law. I?ve seen it work for and against consumers. For being ones that wanted to switch carriers but didn?t want to incur a cancelation fee.
I actually wouldn't mind a tiered pricing plan if it meant that I paid less than $30/month. I've had my iPhone 3GS for a little less than 6 months and I barely even put a dent in my "unlimited" data plan:
Is AT&T unlimited, really "unlimited" as in no fine print, etc. If so, they really don't have a leg to stand on. If an electricity company is stupid enough to provide an unlimited service, they deserve to go bankrupt.
"Unlimited" actually devalues the service being provided, which is AT&T's bandwidth. Hence the outcry.
Ah, another moron who is clueless about the real world. You must indeed be high.
Bandwidth hogs cost AT&T dearly for their extravagant over use of the network which denies others normal service in the form of slows, dropped calls, etc.
A true moron would agree to pay extra when they signed a contract that included unlimited data.
Those people are taking no more than what they have already bought and paid for. Why do you call them greedy?
Would you be happy if a bus company dropped you off 100 miles from your destination? If other people wanted your seat, would you be greedy in expecting to get what you paid for?
Buses don't offer a "ride forever for one price" policy. You pay more to ride from SF to NY than you would to ride from SF to Sacramento. Even transportation systems that have an 'unlimited ride' option have a time limit on that.
And just try parking your butt in an 'all you can eat' buffet for a week and see how that turns out.
Enjoy the 'unlimited' while it lasts. Lots of things start out cheap, but ultimately reality and the market win.
This will be the thing that finally exhausts my patience with ATT. I'll miss the iPhone, and I hope Apple allows it on other networks. But, if not I can and will live with android.
Exactly how many customers do you think will leave AT&T if they change their data structure for the iphone? I truly believe only the data hogs will be the ones crying and having a fit at the end of the day, just like they are right now. If AT&T starts doing data tiers for smartphones that will be a big plus in my book and a huge selling point PAY FOR WHAT YOU NEED, if you need to hoard a ton of data, guess what? You gotta pay for it.
I agree. I think the number of customers who will leave AT&T will be less than the number who will finally buy the iPhone, if there is a cheaper data plan available (for low data usage).
and really lets be honest here....EVERYONE, Comcast/Verizon/ATT/TMobile they ALL charge WAY TOO MUCH for broadband access. $40.00 a month for home broadband is a completely rip off. Why is it a rip off? Think about it.....when broadband started being offered everywhere, about 9 years ago (roughly) the price was 40.00.....now here we are almost 10 years later with TWICE the amount of people using it, and that cost can't come down? Remember when dial up used to cost 29.99 a month? Now its practically free...in some cases completely free.....but still broadband does not budge!
The cost-per-Mbps has gone down considerably over the years. My throughput has increased to 40Mbit from 1.5Mbps when I first got it. On top of that, my usage has increased many, many times. I?ve even gotten calls asking me to use less. Apparently over 1TB in a month sends up a flag. Oops!
I'd like to change the price I pay. Indeed, I'd like to state a certain fee limit per month, and remove all the existing verbiage about fees. I REALLY want to be nice, so I'll allow ATT to opt out of the new contract by breaking it with no fee!
Does that sound fair to you? If not, why can the other party to the contract (ATT) change the terms that they have agreed to previously?
I think you missed my point... I'm not defending ATT, just giving an idea as to how to go about it all. I agree with you!
Anyhow, as I said, if ATT wants to change the contract, then the people in the contract should be able to get out of it without any kind of termination fee. Though, I like your idea better of the customers should charge a "find new carrier" fee for ATT suddenly changing the terms of the contract. That would be REALLY nice. Never gonna happen though.
I agree. I think the number of customers who will leave AT&T will be less than the number who will finally buy the iPhone, if there is a cheaper data plan available (for low data usage).
I really wish they would go into a pricing structure, it would really change the game for a lot of people. A pricing structure or a pay 1 dollar per 200MB would be a huge godsend (2GB for 10 bucks, 6GB for 30 bucks is more than enough unless you are a data hog and still more than the 5GB Verizon offers). Numerous people would step up to a smartphone but companies like RIM would suffer unless the base price for a blackberry was 10 bucks to cover BIS subscription.
Bandwith Hogs your days should have been numbered a long time ago. You use more you pay more, its a simple concept.
Exactly what is an iPhone user's 'contract' with AT&T? (Not being facetious.)
Is the 2 year lock-in the same as a 2 year contract? Are they required to not increase our plan rate at all? I tend to doubt it.
If anyone can de-legalize the actual contract we sign it would actually add value to this conversation.
You can pull it up online. It?s to lock you in, not lock them into anything. There are certain generalized things they agree to, but as strict as people are expecting on this thread.
For everyone saying that Verizon couldn't handle it either: That's why the phone should be available on every network. Put it on one exclusive (crappy) network and what do you expect? I despise ATT for hamstringing my iPhone, but the buck really stops with Apple here.
Those people are taking no more than what they have already bought and paid for. Why do you call them greedy?
Why not?! The Obama administration calls the Wall Street guys greedy and the rich that don't give more of what they earn to Big Government by means of taxation as greedy. This is the same administration that gave us a "Pay Czar" that restricted CEO's of pay that the public company he worked for was contractually obligated to!
And don't give me that crap about taking TARP money. Some financial companies didn't want it in the first place and were forced by the administration to take it.
Besides, if the CEO needed to be replaced (as in the firing of GM's CEO, or negotiations needed to dealt with as in lower paying contracts), it would be up to the Board of Directors of the public company! Not some sycophant dweeb "Czar" from this incompetent administration who, if anybody out there needs replacing...!
IF Apple wants true customer satisfaction, when their NC server facility is finished, take over the data means from the carrier and figure a way to stream from that so called cloud the iPhones data demand. If that can be done? Otherwise besides AT&T, Verizon is going to call you greedy and restrict and T-Mobile and Sprint is going to call you greedy and restrict and like Global Warming, you don't have to believe in the "numbers" to be adversely affected by it in some measure!
Many people bring up valid points, and I know that ATT cannot snap their fingers and magically upgrade their network. BUT… A contract is a contract. The decided to charge $30 for unlimited data, and they hold you to that contact for 2 years. That is the agreement that is made with each user. So if I choose to stream Pandora 24/7/365 it is my privilege and right to do so because I have paid ATT for that right.
ATT must have known about the App store before the 3G iPhone came out, and they must have known the types of Apps Apple was going to allow. So they knew very well the type of data usage they would be experiencing. Heck I am sure they knew about the 3G iPhone before the original iPhone came out. This was no big surprise. As for the phenomenal success, ATT knew and was counting on the phenomenal sales the subsidized 3G iPhone was going to bring in. Ok I will be a bit more realistic, maybe they didn’t know with 100% certainty, but I bet you they were pretty close, and based on how poorly their network has performed, they were way off mark with what they could handle, and what they promised.
If you ask me, this is a simple case of greed, especially on ATT’s part. They wanted the iPhone all for themselves. Once they have you, are you going to leave? Even after your 2 years is up, the phone is still locked to ATT.
Would this even be an issue if the iPhone was released on multiple carriers? This way every network would have to share a piece of the burden. But ATT did not and does not want it, so sorry… You sold people a contract that stated unlimited data for $30/month. Deal with it…
I don't see any difference between what is being done now and what happened when at&t first came out with DSL they sold it as High Bandwidth and then wanted to cut it down when everyone signed on, I know because I was one of the 3% early adopters. After getting onto the forums and raising cane about it the early adopters were grandfathered to the higher rates, that is until you moved or interrupted your service for any reason.
I'm not against a company making money or paying for improvements but I don't care for the attitude that this okay by any means. I'm saying just give the iPhone to any carrier and get some competition, instead of putting it out there and letting everyone else copy the work that apple has done. The iPhone is not the bandwidth problem the network is, do you think the Droid is any less of a bandwidth hog?
Comments
druble - Your obviously a windows/pc lover .....so why are you posting on APPLEinsider?? If you hate "Fanboys" who love macs so much, why are you here on a MAC driven website?
Further more....Why are we "fanboys" & "whiners" because we want WHAT WE AGREED TO IN THE CONTRACT.
IF at&t said, "Ok here is a data plan chart choose one..." and the highest amount available was 5gb....I would not have bought the phone! I bought the phone BECAUSE it was unlimited!
And for those that want a tiered price system.....someone already said it here....but that tier will START @ 30.00 a month.....YOU WATCH!
If they want to change the plan later, then fine, but for the next two years I get UNLIMITED data for $30.00...and for those that want to say I am WHINING.....PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, lets write up a contract together, agree on the terms, then I will change those terms a day later, but I don't want to hear a peep out of you! Lets make it something good to....like, your mortgage! I'm sure people would be just fine if mortgage contracts were changed at the last minute!!
and really lets be honest here....EVERYONE, Comcast/Verizon/ATT/TMobile they ALL charge WAY TOO MUCH for broadband access. $40.00 a month for home broadband is a completely rip off. Why is it a rip off? Think about it.....when broadband started being offered everywhere, about 9 years ago (roughly) the price was 40.00.....now here we are almost 10 years later with TWICE the amount of people using it, and that cost can't come down? Remember when dial up used to cost 29.99 a month? Now its practically free...in some cases completely free.....but still broadband does not budge!
Don't bet on it...
A friend of mine had Altell Unlimited $49.00 way, way back when. Too many people took up on the offer and went wild on the minutes because she got a letter from Altell stating that they were changing the Plan. When she called to complain, she was told by Altell "Tough Cookies, Your Plan IS Changed!"
She canceled (without penalty since Altell breached) and went with another carrier.
Should this come to fruition, I hope you and everyone on the plan has better luck then my friend, but don't count on it. Sure you can have a class action suit followed by appeals from both sides, but I'm just passing on from what my friend experienced is all. Besides AT&T doesn't have to worry about rankings amongst the cell phone carriers since they are already last...
I remember that. The fine print says they can change the plans at any time since the contract is to hold you to the plan not the other way around. But if they essentially rip up the contract then you no longer are tied to that contract by law. I?ve seen it work for and against consumers. For being ones that wanted to switch carriers but didn?t want to incur a cancelation fee.
"Unlimited" actually devalues the service being provided, which is AT&T's bandwidth. Hence the outcry.
Ah, another moron who is clueless about the real world. You must indeed be high.
Bandwidth hogs cost AT&T dearly for their extravagant over use of the network which denies others normal service in the form of slows, dropped calls, etc.
A true moron would agree to pay extra when they signed a contract that included unlimited data.
Those people are taking no more than what they have already bought and paid for. Why do you call them greedy?
Would you be happy if a bus company dropped you off 100 miles from your destination? If other people wanted your seat, would you be greedy in expecting to get what you paid for?
Buses don't offer a "ride forever for one price" policy. You pay more to ride from SF to NY than you would to ride from SF to Sacramento. Even transportation systems that have an 'unlimited ride' option have a time limit on that.
And just try parking your butt in an 'all you can eat' buffet for a week and see how that turns out.
Enjoy the 'unlimited' while it lasts. Lots of things start out cheap, but ultimately reality and the market win.
Exactly how many customers do you think will leave AT&T if they change their data structure for the iphone? I truly believe only the data hogs will be the ones crying and having a fit at the end of the day, just like they are right now. If AT&T starts doing data tiers for smartphones that will be a big plus in my book and a huge selling point PAY FOR WHAT YOU NEED, if you need to hoard a ton of data, guess what? You gotta pay for it.
I agree. I think the number of customers who will leave AT&T will be less than the number who will finally buy the iPhone, if there is a cheaper data plan available (for low data usage).
A true moron would agree to pay extra when they signed a contract that included unlimited data.
Exactly what is an iPhone user's 'contract' with AT&T? (Not being facetious.)
Is the 2 year lock-in the same as a 2 year contract? Are they required to not increase our plan rate at all? I tend to doubt it.
If anyone can de-legalize the actual contract we sign it would actually add value to this conversation.
and really lets be honest here....EVERYONE, Comcast/Verizon/ATT/TMobile they ALL charge WAY TOO MUCH for broadband access. $40.00 a month for home broadband is a completely rip off. Why is it a rip off? Think about it.....when broadband started being offered everywhere, about 9 years ago (roughly) the price was 40.00.....now here we are almost 10 years later with TWICE the amount of people using it, and that cost can't come down? Remember when dial up used to cost 29.99 a month? Now its practically free...in some cases completely free.....but still broadband does not budge!
The cost-per-Mbps has gone down considerably over the years. My throughput has increased to 40Mbit from 1.5Mbps when I first got it. On top of that, my usage has increased many, many times. I?ve even gotten calls asking me to use less. Apparently over 1TB in a month sends up a flag. Oops!
Cool! I'd like to revise the contract too!
I'd like to change the price I pay. Indeed, I'd like to state a certain fee limit per month, and remove all the existing verbiage about fees. I REALLY want to be nice, so I'll allow ATT to opt out of the new contract by breaking it with no fee!
Does that sound fair to you? If not, why can the other party to the contract (ATT) change the terms that they have agreed to previously?
I think you missed my point... I'm not defending ATT, just giving an idea as to how to go about it all. I agree with you!
Anyhow, as I said, if ATT wants to change the contract, then the people in the contract should be able to get out of it without any kind of termination fee. Though, I like your idea better of the customers should charge a "find new carrier" fee for ATT suddenly changing the terms of the contract. That would be REALLY nice. Never gonna happen though.
I agree. I think the number of customers who will leave AT&T will be less than the number who will finally buy the iPhone, if there is a cheaper data plan available (for low data usage).
I really wish they would go into a pricing structure, it would really change the game for a lot of people. A pricing structure or a pay 1 dollar per 200MB would be a huge godsend (2GB for 10 bucks, 6GB for 30 bucks is more than enough unless you are a data hog and still more than the 5GB Verizon offers). Numerous people would step up to a smartphone but companies like RIM would suffer unless the base price for a blackberry was 10 bucks to cover BIS subscription.
Bandwith Hogs your days should have been numbered a long time ago. You use more you pay more, its a simple concept.
Exactly what is an iPhone user's 'contract' with AT&T? (Not being facetious.)
Is the 2 year lock-in the same as a 2 year contract? Are they required to not increase our plan rate at all? I tend to doubt it.
If anyone can de-legalize the actual contract we sign it would actually add value to this conversation.
You can pull it up online. It?s to lock you in, not lock them into anything. There are certain generalized things they agree to, but as strict as people are expecting on this thread.
I bought an iPhone to surf the web, stream music and videos and use maps and GPS, AS ADVERTISED.
What did they think I would do with it? Just talk on the phone?
Wake up AT&T in is nearly 2010! Hello Verizon!
Those people are taking no more than what they have already bought and paid for. Why do you call them greedy?
Why not?! The Obama administration calls the Wall Street guys greedy and the rich that don't give more of what they earn to Big Government by means of taxation as greedy. This is the same administration that gave us a "Pay Czar" that restricted CEO's of pay that the public company he worked for was contractually obligated to!
And don't give me that crap about taking TARP money. Some financial companies didn't want it in the first place and were forced by the administration to take it.
Besides, if the CEO needed to be replaced (as in the firing of GM's CEO, or negotiations needed to dealt with as in lower paying contracts), it would be up to the Board of Directors of the public company! Not some sycophant dweeb "Czar" from this incompetent administration who, if anybody out there needs replacing...!
IF Apple wants true customer satisfaction, when their NC server facility is finished, take over the data means from the carrier and figure a way to stream from that so called cloud the iPhones data demand. If that can be done? Otherwise besides AT&T, Verizon is going to call you greedy and restrict and T-Mobile and Sprint is going to call you greedy and restrict and like Global Warming, you don't have to believe in the "numbers" to be adversely affected by it in some measure!
ATT must have known about the App store before the 3G iPhone came out, and they must have known the types of Apps Apple was going to allow. So they knew very well the type of data usage they would be experiencing. Heck I am sure they knew about the 3G iPhone before the original iPhone came out. This was no big surprise. As for the phenomenal success, ATT knew and was counting on the phenomenal sales the subsidized 3G iPhone was going to bring in. Ok I will be a bit more realistic, maybe they didn’t know with 100% certainty, but I bet you they were pretty close, and based on how poorly their network has performed, they were way off mark with what they could handle, and what they promised.
If you ask me, this is a simple case of greed, especially on ATT’s part. They wanted the iPhone all for themselves. Once they have you, are you going to leave? Even after your 2 years is up, the phone is still locked to ATT.
Would this even be an issue if the iPhone was released on multiple carriers? This way every network would have to share a piece of the burden. But ATT did not and does not want it, so sorry… You sold people a contract that stated unlimited data for $30/month. Deal with it…
I'm not against a company making money or paying for improvements but I don't care for the attitude that this okay by any means. I'm saying just give the iPhone to any carrier and get some competition, instead of putting it out there and letting everyone else copy the work that apple has done. The iPhone is not the bandwidth problem the network is, do you think the Droid is any less of a bandwidth hog?