Yeah I've read alot of published articles like that. Nvdia is really the better option (whether Intel likes that or not).
Here's a CRAZY IDEA... What if Apple had PA Semi engineers made custom chips for not only the iPhone but Notebooks also & Apple decided to buy Nvdia & they made graphics cards just for Apple! .. Ehh just my dreaming though
I think that would be a great idea... But I guess I'm daydreaming too
Anyway, one thing that we should note is that nVidia has always proven to be a reliable company, be it in terms of hardware or anything else. Nvidia really 'supported' AMD with the nForce. And, very quickly, the nForce proved to be a superb chipset. Besides, it is well known that nVidia makes better hardware than ATI, although ATI does a better job at GPU-image processing level. I was 'shocked' when I heard the news about nVidia halting development(or processing, whatever, I forgot) to focus on the lawsuit.
Really, it's high time someone check Intel. Intel has been a real bully in the IT industry. Intel has the worst monopolistic behaviors in this industry...
something to always keep in mind. 1% growth for apple is much easier to obtain than 1% pc market.
the biggest issue i have with apple's hardware is their terrible lack of getting a decent graphics card in their machines for the price that you pay. they build a great box and a good OS, but the price is way out of line for what is in there.
Well, some might say it's due to the hardware, or beautiful box, but one very important thing to remember: Apple does not want any dumb/idiot to buy a Mac, and not know how to really 'use' it. Generally, Mac users are better informed/knowledgeable than their PC counterparts. Imagine if Macs were priced as the 'casual' PC. Who wouldn't be buying a Mac?? Every dumbas$ would want a Mac, yet not know the significance of owning one, of even the philosophy behind Apple's computers. I personally think people should deserve a Mac to earn one/ buy themselves one.
The best way to sum his up is to quote Steve when he once said something like: "....I always thought people must think different to use our products..."
I wonder if anybody knows what bit rate the new graphics will have? Is it still 8bit or are they finally seeing the light and bumping it to 10bit? There are more monitors coming out that can display 10bit. It sure would be nice...
something to always keep in mind. 1% growth for apple is much easier to obtain than 1% pc market.
the biggest issue i have with apple's hardware is their terrible lack of getting a decent graphics card in their machines for the price that you pay. they build a great box and a good OS, but the price is way out of line for what is in there.
This. On the CPU side things are usually pretty good, but the graphics are just terrible for what you're paying. Honestly, A 9400 In a $1000+ machine? That's a joke. And a 9600M GT w/ 256 VAM in a $2K machine? That's a ripoff.
This. On the CPU side things are usually pretty good, but the graphics are just terrible for what you're paying. Honestly, A 9400 In a $1000+ machine? That's a joke. And a 9600M GT w/ 256 VAM in a $2K machine? That's a ripoff.
The problem there is a lack of better options that fit into what must be a rather limited thermal/power envelope the Macbook Pro has. That has changed somewhat since the last update, with the arrival of 40nm GPUs from both ATI and Nvidia, so I would expect a slight improvement soonish.
I suppose if you're excited about new chips that could be a reason to wait, but Core i3 is like the lowest end of the new Core i series. I don't think there are any benchmarks yet but I think the performance improvement may not be that great... Say 10%? I don't know, but one thing for sure is I can't wait for the Westmere benchmarks... Particularly the GPU ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alectheking
I would hate to buy a Core 2 duo and then have an i3 in Jan. And I just read that it said i3's are actually shipping right now, ahead of schedule!
Your right!, I forgot and their suppose to be released in Jan (meaning those chips) but again with intel it always comes down to graphics...even-though when they showed off the chips this past June, they were running WoW on low end laptops with no problem.... I guess it comes down to need.
I'd wait and see.... And beside Apple has delayed shipping for 2wks on the 27" imacs for (whatever reason) even though I know your looking at the 21" ...Apple may surprise us with a quiet specs bump in Jan like they did in 2008 for the Mac Pro's in Jan ..... I'd wait and see
ATI's 5-series at 40nm should be a real game-changer and I am definitely looking forward to them. There are three hindrances though.
1. Enough 40nm chips from TSMC which has been having yield problems
2. Fast enough roll out of Mobility Radeon 5-series designs for OEMs
3. ATI Branding/Image... Competing with Nvidia rebranding the 9 series as 200~M, also their marketing clout is still huge.
One more thing... Whether Apple will want to deliver higher GPU performance in MacBook Pros in the 1st half of 2010 or keep using the 9600M for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow
The problem there is a lack of better options that fit into what must be a rather limited thermal/power envelope the Macbook Pro has. That has changed somewhat since the last update, with the arrival of 40nm GPUs from both ATI and Nvidia, so I would expect a slight improvement soonish.
I don't have strong opinions about the competitiveness of Apple's hardware, but it seems worth pointing out that these exact sentiments have been getting expressed, every few weeks, for the last five years or so. Apple is always just moments away from losing market share, or forgoing market share that's there for the taking, because their machines cost more and are poorly specced.
Apple has been doing nothing but outpacing the growth of the PC market in general during this time period, so maybe it's not entirely true.
Well, because the primary Mac user simply in some cases does not need that better GPU, for example. In some cases Apple lags behind in hardware... in some cases, eg. 27" LED it moves ahead.
Whatever the case, Apple seems to be able to focus on the "right" things to be ahead in.
With the economic recovery starting to happen and Apple really making it through quite brilliantly during the 2009 downturn, Apple will continue to have growth in various forms.
My next Apple purchase will most likely be a 27" iMac i7 "after" the Q2 update/refresh. My 3-year old battle-ax MBP C2D 2,2 has more than enough horsepower for the road and (hopefully) plenty of life left in it.
A iMac i7 will clearly outperform a MBP i7. Coupled with my Dell 2407 monitor -- and my untethered MBP -- I'll have a 2 monitor desktop and a wireless laptop HO.
Exactamundo. Dude, this is a brilliant plan.
I will almost replicate this. It's time to replace my Dual G5 monster and the ancient 21" LCD (DVI Apple) I purchased back in 1998. The 27" iMac 2Q10 sounds perfect.
Now, if I could trade in my 13" MacBook for a 10" or an 11" ultra-lightweight MacBook, I would have everything I need: road warrior & desktop. Sadly, Apple just doesn't make equipment for guys who are on 130-140 flights a year...
With Steve making comments like that, why hasn't Apple been fired from the Blu-ray association's board of directors? How would Apple like members of its own board of directors publicly making anti-Mac comments?
I suppose if you're excited about new chips that could be a reason to wait, but Core i3 is like the lowest end of the new Core i series. I don't think there are any benchmarks yet but I think the performance improvement may not be that great... Say 10%? I don't know, but one thing for sure is I can't wait for the Westmere benchmarks... Particularly the GPU ones.
Well i know you cant always have the latest and greatest, but If I have to wait a little longer and then get an i3 I would be a happy camper. They might not be much better, but I would be much happier with that cool naming scheme, and maybe different video cards??
With Steve making comments like that, why hasn't Apple been fired from the Blu-ray association's board of directors? How would Apple like members of its own board of directors publicly making anti-Mac comments?
Okay listen up Haggar, here is what my leader (Steve Jobs) said and I quote:
"Blu-Ray is just a bag of hurt. I don't mean from the consumer point of view. It's great to watch movies, but the LICENSING (see haggar LI..CEN..SING..) is so complex..... We're waiting until things settle down, and waiting until Blu-Ray takes off in the marketplace before we burden our customers with the cost of the licensing and the cost of the drives"
See Steve doesn't want to burden me or the millions of other happy Apple users, with the cost of a "feature" we really don't need. Like I said. Not that Big of a Deal.
I'm very glad Steve thinks about us before making a decision on something just based on fanboy emails, and complainers etc... For people who say Blu-Ray is easy to put on a mac, then by all means go ahead and do it yourself.... IN REGARDS TO YOUR ARGUMENT ...... THE JURY SAYS ............. THE PLANTIFF (HAGGAR) HAS NONE.
Well i know you cant always have the latest and greatest, but If I have to wait a little longer and then get an i3 I would be a happy camper. They might not be much better, but I would be much happier with that cool naming scheme, and maybe different video cards??
Nvidia may be right alec, If the specs are only equivalent to a 1 or 2x speed ups in real world use, then it's not worth Apples time. I personally would like to see a more advance GPU (even though the current ones are GREAT AND POWER HOUSES) it would be nice to see what limits we can take the GPU's with GCD and eventually OpenCL.
I wonder if anybody knows what bit rate the new graphics will have? Is it still 8bit or are they finally seeing the light and bumping it to 10bit? There are more monitors coming out that can display 10bit. It sure would be nice...
thanks for the ATI benchmark nvidia2008! if compute is close to the 250GTS but with lower TDPthis would make a great 9600M replacement...
No problem. Yeah, the Mobility Radeon 5-series 40nm paired with an Arrandale CPU would really be a nice boost for the MacBook Pro line in 2010. Hopefully seeing 512MB dedicated VRAM minimum, and 1GB VRAM on the higher ends. It's a matter of what Apple decides to do, how the models are configured, and whether AMD-ATI can step up to the plate with quantity and quality.
I'm thinking at this stage, for the MacBook Pros, Apple could do an update to the MacBook Pro (and Snow Leopard accordingly) that allows on-the-fly switching between the Arrandale built-in integrated GPU and the discrete GPU. Gives the user the best of both worlds.
Or maybe with the Mobility Radeon 5-series 40nm Apple will just outright disable the Arrandale GPU and do all the power management etc. directly with the discrete GPU.
This "news" is the most reasonable argument for updated MBPs in the next 1.5-3 months. Which makes my upgrading choice a lot harder.
It sounds like the new chipset will force apple to use a dedicated GPU but the CPUs are a huge step forward - faster memory controllers, on the fly overclocking, better power management, etc.
Comments
Yeah I've read alot of published articles like that. Nvdia is really the better option (whether Intel likes that or not).
Here's a CRAZY IDEA... What if Apple had PA Semi engineers made custom chips for not only the iPhone but Notebooks also & Apple decided to buy Nvdia & they made graphics cards just for Apple!
I think that would be a great idea... But I guess I'm daydreaming too
Anyway, one thing that we should note is that nVidia has always proven to be a reliable company, be it in terms of hardware or anything else. Nvidia really 'supported' AMD with the nForce. And, very quickly, the nForce proved to be a superb chipset. Besides, it is well known that nVidia makes better hardware than ATI, although ATI does a better job at GPU-image processing level. I was 'shocked' when I heard the news about nVidia halting development(or processing, whatever, I forgot) to focus on the lawsuit.
Really, it's high time someone check Intel. Intel has been a real bully in the IT industry. Intel has the worst monopolistic behaviors in this industry...
something to always keep in mind. 1% growth for apple is much easier to obtain than 1% pc market.
the biggest issue i have with apple's hardware is their terrible lack of getting a decent graphics card in their machines for the price that you pay. they build a great box and a good OS, but the price is way out of line for what is in there.
Well, some might say it's due to the hardware, or beautiful box, but one very important thing to remember: Apple does not want any dumb/idiot to buy a Mac, and not know how to really 'use' it. Generally, Mac users are better informed/knowledgeable than their PC counterparts. Imagine if Macs were priced as the 'casual' PC. Who wouldn't be buying a Mac?? Every dumbas$ would want a Mac, yet not know the significance of owning one, of even the philosophy behind Apple's computers. I personally think people should deserve a Mac to earn one/ buy themselves one.
The best way to sum his up is to quote Steve when he once said something like: "....I always thought people must think different to use our products..."
something to always keep in mind. 1% growth for apple is much easier to obtain than 1% pc market.
the biggest issue i have with apple's hardware is their terrible lack of getting a decent graphics card in their machines for the price that you pay. they build a great box and a good OS, but the price is way out of line for what is in there.
This. On the CPU side things are usually pretty good, but the graphics are just terrible for what you're paying. Honestly, A 9400 In a $1000+ machine? That's a joke. And a 9600M GT w/ 256 VAM in a $2K machine? That's a ripoff.
This. On the CPU side things are usually pretty good, but the graphics are just terrible for what you're paying. Honestly, A 9400 In a $1000+ machine? That's a joke. And a 9600M GT w/ 256 VAM in a $2K machine? That's a ripoff.
The problem there is a lack of better options that fit into what must be a rather limited thermal/power envelope the Macbook Pro has. That has changed somewhat since the last update, with the arrival of 40nm GPUs from both ATI and Nvidia, so I would expect a slight improvement soonish.
I would hate to buy a Core 2 duo and then have an i3 in Jan. And I just read that it said i3's are actually shipping right now, ahead of schedule!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i3
I'd wait and see.... And beside Apple has delayed shipping for 2wks on the 27" imacs for (whatever reason) even though I know your looking at the 21" ...Apple may surprise us with a quiet specs bump in Jan like they did in 2008 for the Mac Pro's in Jan ..... I'd wait and see
1. Enough 40nm chips from TSMC which has been having yield problems
2. Fast enough roll out of Mobility Radeon 5-series designs for OEMs
3. ATI Branding/Image... Competing with Nvidia rebranding the 9 series as 200~M, also their marketing clout is still huge.
One more thing... Whether Apple will want to deliver higher GPU performance in MacBook Pros in the 1st half of 2010 or keep using the 9600M for now.
The problem there is a lack of better options that fit into what must be a rather limited thermal/power envelope the Macbook Pro has. That has changed somewhat since the last update, with the arrival of 40nm GPUs from both ATI and Nvidia, so I would expect a slight improvement soonish.
I don't have strong opinions about the competitiveness of Apple's hardware, but it seems worth pointing out that these exact sentiments have been getting expressed, every few weeks, for the last five years or so. Apple is always just moments away from losing market share, or forgoing market share that's there for the taking, because their machines cost more and are poorly specced.
Apple has been doing nothing but outpacing the growth of the PC market in general during this time period, so maybe it's not entirely true.
Well, because the primary Mac user simply in some cases does not need that better GPU, for example. In some cases Apple lags behind in hardware... in some cases, eg. 27" LED it moves ahead.
Whatever the case, Apple seems to be able to focus on the "right" things to be ahead in.
With the economic recovery starting to happen and Apple really making it through quite brilliantly during the 2009 downturn, Apple will continue to have growth in various forms.
do you guys think these processors will be included in all Macbook pro models or just the higher end ones?
IMO hard to say until CES when more specs, prices and then benchmarks come out. The rest of you guys/gals(if any)? What do you think?
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16916/1/
Original german article: http://www.notebookjournal.de/tests/...tx-nkmo-1073/6
We're looking at the Mobility Radeon 5650 which is a DX11, 40nm part. Compute power appears to be about just under that of the GTS 250M.
No real info on wattage but Fudzilla infers from the German article that the power draw is good.
For the next Arrandale Core i5 MacBook Pro 15" discrete GPU, an Nvidia GTS250M or ATI 5650 would be great.
My next Apple purchase will most likely be a 27" iMac i7 "after" the Q2 update/refresh. My 3-year old battle-ax MBP C2D 2,2 has more than enough horsepower for the road and (hopefully) plenty of life left in it.
A iMac i7 will clearly outperform a MBP i7. Coupled with my Dell 2407 monitor -- and my untethered MBP -- I'll have a 2 monitor desktop and a wireless laptop HO.
Exactamundo. Dude, this is a brilliant plan.
I will almost replicate this. It's time to replace my Dual G5 monster and the ancient 21" LCD (DVI Apple) I purchased back in 1998. The 27" iMac 2Q10 sounds perfect.
Now, if I could trade in my 13" MacBook for a 10" or an 11" ultra-lightweight MacBook, I would have everything I need: road warrior & desktop. Sadly, Apple just doesn't make equipment for guys who are on 130-140 flights a year...
Blu-ray is a Bag of hurt. Not that big of a deal.
With Steve making comments like that, why hasn't Apple been fired from the Blu-ray association's board of directors? How would Apple like members of its own board of directors publicly making anti-Mac comments?
I suppose if you're excited about new chips that could be a reason to wait, but Core i3 is like the lowest end of the new Core i series. I don't think there are any benchmarks yet but I think the performance improvement may not be that great... Say 10%? I don't know, but one thing for sure is I can't wait for the Westmere benchmarks... Particularly the GPU ones.
Well i know you cant always have the latest and greatest, but If I have to wait a little longer and then get an i3 I would be a happy camper. They might not be much better, but I would be much happier with that cool naming scheme, and maybe different video cards??
With Steve making comments like that, why hasn't Apple been fired from the Blu-ray association's board of directors? How would Apple like members of its own board of directors publicly making anti-Mac comments?
Okay listen up Haggar, here is what my leader (Steve Jobs) said and I quote: See Steve doesn't want to burden me or the millions of other happy Apple users, with the cost of a "feature" we really don't need. Like I said. Not that Big of a Deal.
I'm very glad Steve thinks about us before making a decision on something just based on fanboy emails, and complainers etc... For people who say Blu-Ray is easy to put on a mac, then by all means go ahead and do it yourself.... IN REGARDS TO YOUR ARGUMENT ...... THE JURY SAYS ............. THE PLANTIFF (HAGGAR) HAS NONE.
Now back to the topic
Well i know you cant always have the latest and greatest, but If I have to wait a little longer and then get an i3 I would be a happy camper. They might not be much better, but I would be much happier with that cool naming scheme, and maybe different video cards??
Nvidia may be right alec, If the specs are only equivalent to a 1 or 2x speed ups in real world use, then it's not worth Apples time. I personally would like to see a more advance GPU (even though the current ones are GREAT AND POWER HOUSES) it would be nice to see what limits we can take the GPU's with GCD and eventually OpenCL.
Can't wait for 2010
I wonder if anybody knows what bit rate the new graphics will have? Is it still 8bit or are they finally seeing the light and bumping it to 10bit? There are more monitors coming out that can display 10bit. It sure would be nice...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC
I'm glad I could help grow your knowledge base. Cause reading this grew mine.
thanks for the ATI benchmark nvidia2008! if compute is close to the 250GTS but with lower TDPthis would make a great 9600M replacement...
No problem. Yeah, the Mobility Radeon 5-series 40nm paired with an Arrandale CPU would really be a nice boost for the MacBook Pro line in 2010. Hopefully seeing 512MB dedicated VRAM minimum, and 1GB VRAM on the higher ends. It's a matter of what Apple decides to do, how the models are configured, and whether AMD-ATI can step up to the plate with quantity and quality.
I'm thinking at this stage, for the MacBook Pros, Apple could do an update to the MacBook Pro (and Snow Leopard accordingly) that allows on-the-fly switching between the Arrandale built-in integrated GPU and the discrete GPU. Gives the user the best of both worlds.
Or maybe with the Mobility Radeon 5-series 40nm Apple will just outright disable the Arrandale GPU and do all the power management etc. directly with the discrete GPU.
This "news" is the most reasonable argument for updated MBPs in the next 1.5-3 months. Which makes my upgrading choice a lot harder.
It sounds like the new chipset will force apple to use a dedicated GPU but the CPUs are a huge step forward - faster memory controllers, on the fly overclocking, better power management, etc.