I also know why he posted it. But I'm trying that he explains why he's saying that.
But my experience with Quadra is that everything but Apple is a piece of crap.
Peoplo complains about teckstud but people like Quadra is not better. But they're with us, so they're good.
You know if you people would just go and Google the word "fragmentation" in the context of computer hardware and operating systems, half the posts you're making here wouldn't be necessary. It's an old concept that anyone who calls themselves technically knowledgeable should know.
The relevance of the concept of fragmentation, to an article about how the just announced Google version of an Android phone is actually a "killer" of the version of a Google Android phone announced just a few weeks ago should be pretty darned obvious also.
If you are that thick, I'll spell it out for you. Both phones are designed as "iPhone killers" but both phones compete primarily with each other and each is individually more likely to kill each other off than they are the iPhone.
Is Google turning into the next Microsoft? Great people, great ideas, lack of follow-through? The "Droid Killer" comment is hardly ironic; it is a statement of fact, albeit tongue in cheek reflection on iPhone killers. Killing the iPhone is a lot of work, but killing the Droid only takes a little bit of effort.
And... at the same time, killing the Droid gives Apple a huge opportunity with Verizon if contract negotiaitons are still stalled.
You know if you people would just go and Google the word "fragmentation" in the context of computer hardware and operating systems, half the posts you're making here wouldn't be necessary. It's an old concept that anyone who calls themselves technically knowledgeable should know.
The relevance of the concept of fragmentation, to an article about how the just announced Google version of an Android phone is actually a "killer" of the version of a Google Android phone announced just a few weeks ago should be pretty darned obvious also.
If you are that thick, I'll spell it out for you. Both phones are designed as "iPhone killers" but both phones compete primarily with each other and each is individually more likely to kill each other off than they are the iPhone.
Mmmm, thanks for knowing better than me what I think and what I know.
But I have asked Quadra why he always writes the same in all the threads about Android. I'm not asking for what explanation means, I'm asking him why he says that.
Android is splintering, just not how you think it is...
Not to be too condescending, but I think it's amusing to watch the old-school techies in the past couple years finally get around to paying attention to the mobile market that I've had been ranting about exclusively for the better part of the past decade. Tim Bray has a post today about the Android OS, dismissing the idea that there's splintering going on, or that it's a big deal if there is.
Wind River announced today a commercial version of the Android platform that comes with pre-integrated apps and global support and is optimized for Texas Instruments’ OMAP 3. But the offering represents one more step toward a dangerously fragmented Android universe . . .
Android fragmentation is real and it is not going away. Ask any developer and they will tell you about the difficulties of supporting multiple versions of Android and their different screen sizes.
Just as Verizon pushes out the first operating-system update to the Droid, Android version 2.0.1, Sprint says its Android phones will get the 2.0 version as late as June next year.
The most interesting thing with the next iPhone I think is going to be the screen. It seems pretty clear that 2010 will be the year that iPhone OS breaks out of 480x320. Although the current SDK allows developers to programmatically determine the current screen size and adjust (and I suspect most UIKit based apps will tend to "just work"), I've seen a lot of developers hard-code for 480x320@163dpi, especially for games.
If nothing else, it'll mean lots and lots of updated AppStore apps, and probably the dumping of iPhone OS 2.2 for good (and thus speeding up and simplifying development).
I can tell you why he POSTED that, but I dont agree... 2 or 3 people (probably paid by <insert other wireless carrier>) who are utterly clueless, wrote factless articles about what they THINK is going to happen, and then lemmings go and read it as fact.
Are you saying that very differing hardware (from different manufacturers) and differing software versions, with the potential for different hw/sw combinations AND add to that the fact that carriers can enable disable features of Android as they see fit is not going to create a fragmented market.
You only have to look at Windows Mobile to see why this is going to fail miserably.
The OPENNESS of the platform isn't important, as your average joe (more of them than geeks/nerds) really could care less about it being open-source.
Android fragmentation is real and it is not going away. Ask any developer and they will tell you about the difficulties of supporting multiple versions of Android and their different screen sizes.
So what exactly does Android fragmentation look like?
Android visitors to androidandme.com
The above data was generated by Google Analytics and it shows the number of visitors to our site using Android devices. This data was collected between November 6, 2009 (Droid launch) and November 21, 2009.
Nearly 50 percent of Android users are running version 1.6, 26 percent are on the new 2.0, and the remaining 24 percent have 1.5.
Android 1.6 leads the way because the HTC Dream (G1) and HTC Magic (myTouch 3G) phones have been out the longest and sold the most units. T-Mobile has updated both of these devices to Android 1.6 and HTC has made the 1.6 images available on their developer?s site.
I?m a little surprised to see Android 2.0 is the second highest used version. There is currently only one phone (Droid) with this build, but we have heard reports of over 250,000 units sold already. The Droid is being heavily marketed towards the hardcore geek and this site also leans towards the hardcore user so that might be the reason for the elevated numbers.
Android 1.5 has the highest number of devices available right now, but it is coming in 3rd in usage. There really is no excuse for the carriers and handset makers to be shipping phones with the outdated Android 1.5. I know some of these phones have custom UIs (Sense UI, Motoblur, TouchWiz) but they should be easily updated to Android 1.6.
Android is splintering, just not how you think it is...
Not to be too condescending, but I think it's amusing to watch the old-school techies in the past couple years finally get around to paying attention to the mobile market that I've had been ranting about exclusively for the better part of the past decade. Tim Bray has a post today about the Android OS, dismissing the idea that there's splintering going on, or that it's a big deal if there is.
Wind River announced today a commercial version of the Android platform that comes with pre-integrated apps and global support and is optimized for Texas Instruments? OMAP 3. But the offering represents one more step toward a dangerously fragmented Android universe . . .
Android fragmentation is real and it is not going away. Ask any developer and they will tell you about the difficulties of supporting multiple versions of Android and their different screen sizes.
Are you concerned because you are thinking about buying an Android based phone? If not why do you keep bringing up this worthless point.
Mmmm, thanks for knowing better than me what I think and what I know.
your welcome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion
But I have asked Quadra why he always writes the same in all the threads about Android. I'm not asking for what explanation means, I'm asking him why he says that.
I guess you didn't read what I wrote very carefully.
The broad answer to your question is that he *doesn't* actually only post about fragmentation, but even if he did, the more ironclad response is ... because it's extremely relevant.
It's not only the number one problem facing the Android platform, it is the exact thing that this particular story (above) is about. why would someone not post about Android fragmentation, when that's what the AppleInsider story the thread is attached to is about? If you're gonna take Quadra to task for always talking about Android fragmentation, you should have at least chosen a thread that wasn't about that.
If, (like teckstud for instance), Quadra was to pepper a thread about something completely different, with his "pet issue" of Android fragmentation, then you'd have a point.
People complain about teckstud "going on about the same thing" because the thread will be about cars or market share, and he'll invariably pop in with "but what about matte screens!" or something similarly irrelevant. It's not the same thing at all.
For the love of all things holy and techy . . . THIS THING IS VAPORWARE! V-A-P-O-R-W-A-R-E! Real people haven't touched it yet, put it in their back pockets, dropped it getting out of their cars, run multiple (NEW) apps at the same time, etc., etc., etc. Until then, it doesn't exist as reviewed! It's a Potemkin Village and nothing more.
Let's look at it again in a couple of months after ten thousand teenagers and "regular people" have had their way with it. Even then, IT'S VERSION 1.0 of the device and clearly just a copy of the iPhone. Let's see how well they do with that!
The most interesting thing with the next iPhone I think is going to be the screen. It seems pretty clear that 2010 will be the year that iPhone OS breaks out of 480x320. Although the current SDK allows developers to programmatically determine the current screen size and adjust (and I suspect most UIKit based apps will tend to "just work"), I've seen a lot of developers hard-code for 480x320@163dpi, especially for games.
If nothing else, it'll mean lots and lots of updated AppStore apps, and probably the dumping of iPhone OS 2.2 for good (and thus speeding up and simplifying development).
Yes, I'm always wary of the hardcoded dimensions. Most do that for simplicity, but there is no excuse for doing so, and I think it's the biggest issue with rendering when certain things change in the SDK.
I can only imagine Apple upgrading the screens when they can make it an exact size increase (i.e. 2x, rather than 1.667 for 800x480). Going 2x to 960x640 would reduce a lot of compositing artifacts on up-scaling.
Are you concerned because you are thinking about buying an Android based phone? If not why do you keep bringing up this worthless point.
It's hardly worthless. It's relevant to the Google discussion. It's a concern for some and it's worth noting because google is taking the exact opposite road (almost WinMo-like) to Apple's model. Contrasting both models is not only relevant, it's important.
Ask AppleInsider why the keep posting Google articles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion
But my experience with Quadra is that everything but Apple is a piece of crap.
Not necessarily. But if it doesn't have an Apple logo on it, I'm immediately suspicious. The device is "guilty before proven innocent", and judging by what's come out of Apple over the last decade and what's been copied and churned out elsewhere, a healthy dose of suspicion is certainly warranted, at least at first blush.
What an odd thread. Who cares what Google are doing, I'm sure they'll have great phones running Android. iPhone basically has three things that Android doesn't, and maybe never will have.
1) Apps. Loads of them. More than 100,000 available and 2 billion downloaded. Some companies are making up to $1 million a month in sales, something that Google won't get overnight
2) iTunes/iPod. Love it or hate it, iTunes is the defacto music manager and this is the one single thing that would keep me, even if all other things didn't count. I don't want to carry a $300 phone and a $300 iPod around with me. It's just not plausible for me to move over 800GBs of music and video to another format or manager, I think a lot of other people are the same
3) Standards. There are 3 iPhone models and aside of speed, they can all pretty much do the same thing. The problem with the many different versions of Android is that apps will have a hard time staying compatible or being performant on each. OK, so Command and Conquer is slow on the 1st and 2nd gen iPhones, but it works. Some games will be 3GS only, but as a developer, you know everyone who bought an iPhone since July has the same model. You only have to look at the state of WinMo to see what eventually happens when you have 20 different OEMs using different implementations of your OS. Even RIM has a relatively stable OS release/look and feel, which is why they've been so successful.
When all is said and done, Apple and Google may end up owning more than 50% of the market between them before too long (at least in the US and EU), and some people will always want to multi-task regardless of battery life or ease-of-use, which is fine. But the terms "iPhone killer" or even "Droid-killer" are nonsense. These phones are here to stay for a very long time.
I think Android is going to have some trouble hitting a bigger critical mass if they keep eating their own young. The Droid was super hyped a month ago now it's almost completely forgotten because the Nexus One is getting all the hype. In another month we'll move onto something new. It's not all bad but as a consumer it's tough to figure out when and what to buy. There's always something better just a month or two away.
Speaking to the speed, notice that then the tables scroll, there is no async delay, which means that the images are pre-loaded or cached. The iPhone is that fast as well in that situation.
Comments
I also know why he posted it. But I'm trying that he explains why he's saying that.
But my experience with Quadra is that everything but Apple is a piece of crap.
Peoplo complains about teckstud but people like Quadra is not better. But they're with us, so they're good.
You know if you people would just go and Google the word "fragmentation" in the context of computer hardware and operating systems, half the posts you're making here wouldn't be necessary. It's an old concept that anyone who calls themselves technically knowledgeable should know.
The relevance of the concept of fragmentation, to an article about how the just announced Google version of an Android phone is actually a "killer" of the version of a Google Android phone announced just a few weeks ago should be pretty darned obvious also.
If you are that thick, I'll spell it out for you. Both phones are designed as "iPhone killers" but both phones compete primarily with each other and each is individually more likely to kill each other off than they are the iPhone.
And... at the same time, killing the Droid gives Apple a huge opportunity with Verizon if contract negotiaitons are still stalled.
You know if you people would just go and Google the word "fragmentation" in the context of computer hardware and operating systems, half the posts you're making here wouldn't be necessary. It's an old concept that anyone who calls themselves technically knowledgeable should know.
The relevance of the concept of fragmentation, to an article about how the just announced Google version of an Android phone is actually a "killer" of the version of a Google Android phone announced just a few weeks ago should be pretty darned obvious also.
If you are that thick, I'll spell it out for you. Both phones are designed as "iPhone killers" but both phones compete primarily with each other and each is individually more likely to kill each other off than they are the iPhone.
Mmmm, thanks for knowing better than me what I think and what I know.
But I have asked Quadra why he always writes the same in all the threads about Android. I'm not asking for what explanation means, I'm asking him why he says that.
Ooohhh, perhaps I'm not the only thick here
Android is splintering, just not how you think it is...
Not to be too condescending, but I think it's amusing to watch the old-school techies in the past couple years finally get around to paying attention to the mobile market that I've had been ranting about exclusively for the better part of the past decade. Tim Bray has a post today about the Android OS, dismissing the idea that there's splintering going on, or that it's a big deal if there is.
http://gigaom.com/2009/12/07/android...fragmentation/
Android Steps Closer to Fragmentation
Wind River announced today a commercial version of the Android platform that comes with pre-integrated apps and global support and is optimized for Texas Instruments’ OMAP 3. But the offering represents one more step toward a dangerously fragmented Android universe . . .
http://androidandme.com/2009/11/news...ion-look-like/
What does Android fragmentation look like?
Android fragmentation is real and it is not going away. Ask any developer and they will tell you about the difficulties of supporting multiple versions of Android and their different screen sizes.
Sprint's Android updates highlight fragmentation
December 11, 2009, 07:40 PM — IDG News Service —
Just as Verizon pushes out the first operating-system update to the Droid, Android version 2.0.1, Sprint says its Android phones will get the 2.0 version as late as June next year.
Posts from fellow members included:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...0&postcount=20
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...7&postcount=25
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...3&postcount=30
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...0&postcount=65
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=80
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...4&postcount=16
If nothing else, it'll mean lots and lots of updated AppStore apps, and probably the dumping of iPhone OS 2.2 for good (and thus speeding up and simplifying development).
I can tell you why he POSTED that, but I dont agree... 2 or 3 people (probably paid by <insert other wireless carrier>) who are utterly clueless, wrote factless articles about what they THINK is going to happen, and then lemmings go and read it as fact.
Are you saying that very differing hardware (from different manufacturers) and differing software versions, with the potential for different hw/sw combinations AND add to that the fact that carriers can enable disable features of Android as they see fit is not going to create a fragmented market.
You only have to look at Windows Mobile to see why this is going to fail miserably.
The OPENNESS of the platform isn't important, as your average joe (more of them than geeks/nerds) really could care less about it being open-source.
What does Android fragmentation look like?
Android fragmentation is real and it is not going away. Ask any developer and they will tell you about the difficulties of supporting multiple versions of Android and their different screen sizes.
So what exactly does Android fragmentation look like?
Android visitors to androidandme.com
The above data was generated by Google Analytics and it shows the number of visitors to our site using Android devices. This data was collected between November 6, 2009 (Droid launch) and November 21, 2009.
Nearly 50 percent of Android users are running version 1.6, 26 percent are on the new 2.0, and the remaining 24 percent have 1.5.
Android 1.6 leads the way because the HTC Dream (G1) and HTC Magic (myTouch 3G) phones have been out the longest and sold the most units. T-Mobile has updated both of these devices to Android 1.6 and HTC has made the 1.6 images available on their developer?s site.
I?m a little surprised to see Android 2.0 is the second highest used version. There is currently only one phone (Droid) with this build, but we have heard reports of over 250,000 units sold already. The Droid is being heavily marketed towards the hardcore geek and this site also leans towards the hardcore user so that might be the reason for the elevated numbers.
Android 1.5 has the highest number of devices available right now, but it is coming in 3rd in usage. There really is no excuse for the carriers and handset makers to be shipping phones with the outdated Android 1.5. I know some of these phones have custom UIs (Sense UI, Motoblur, TouchWiz) but they should be easily updated to Android 1.6.
If so, how will it compete with the Iphone or the Droid?
http://www.russellbeattie.com/blog/a...ou-think-it-is
Android is splintering, just not how you think it is...
Not to be too condescending, but I think it's amusing to watch the old-school techies in the past couple years finally get around to paying attention to the mobile market that I've had been ranting about exclusively for the better part of the past decade. Tim Bray has a post today about the Android OS, dismissing the idea that there's splintering going on, or that it's a big deal if there is.
http://gigaom.com/2009/12/07/android...fragmentation/
Android Steps Closer to Fragmentation
Wind River announced today a commercial version of the Android platform that comes with pre-integrated apps and global support and is optimized for Texas Instruments? OMAP 3. But the offering represents one more step toward a dangerously fragmented Android universe . . .
http://androidandme.com/2009/11/news...ion-look-like/
What does Android fragmentation look like?
Android fragmentation is real and it is not going away. Ask any developer and they will tell you about the difficulties of supporting multiple versions of Android and their different screen sizes.
Are you concerned because you are thinking about buying an Android based phone? If not why do you keep bringing up this worthless point.
Mmmm, thanks for knowing better than me what I think and what I know.
your welcome.
But I have asked Quadra why he always writes the same in all the threads about Android. I'm not asking for what explanation means, I'm asking him why he says that.
I guess you didn't read what I wrote very carefully.
The broad answer to your question is that he *doesn't* actually only post about fragmentation, but even if he did, the more ironclad response is ... because it's extremely relevant.
It's not only the number one problem facing the Android platform, it is the exact thing that this particular story (above) is about. why would someone not post about Android fragmentation, when that's what the AppleInsider story the thread is attached to is about? If you're gonna take Quadra to task for always talking about Android fragmentation, you should have at least chosen a thread that wasn't about that.
If, (like teckstud for instance), Quadra was to pepper a thread about something completely different, with his "pet issue" of Android fragmentation, then you'd have a point.
People complain about teckstud "going on about the same thing" because the thread will be about cars or market share, and he'll invariably pop in with "but what about matte screens!" or something similarly irrelevant. It's not the same thing at all.
Let's look at it again in a couple of months after ten thousand teenagers and "regular people" have had their way with it. Even then, IT'S VERSION 1.0 of the device and clearly just a copy of the iPhone. Let's see how well they do with that!
The most interesting thing with the next iPhone I think is going to be the screen. It seems pretty clear that 2010 will be the year that iPhone OS breaks out of 480x320. Although the current SDK allows developers to programmatically determine the current screen size and adjust (and I suspect most UIKit based apps will tend to "just work"), I've seen a lot of developers hard-code for 480x320@163dpi, especially for games.
If nothing else, it'll mean lots and lots of updated AppStore apps, and probably the dumping of iPhone OS 2.2 for good (and thus speeding up and simplifying development).
Yes, I'm always wary of the hardcoded dimensions. Most do that for simplicity, but there is no excuse for doing so, and I think it's the biggest issue with rendering when certain things change in the SDK.
I can only imagine Apple upgrading the screens when they can make it an exact size increase (i.e. 2x, rather than 1.667 for 800x480). Going 2x to 960x640 would reduce a lot of compositing artifacts on up-scaling.
Are you concerned because you are thinking about buying an Android based phone? If not why do you keep bringing up this worthless point.
It's hardly worthless. It's relevant to the Google discussion. It's a concern for some and it's worth noting because google is taking the exact opposite road (almost WinMo-like) to Apple's model. Contrasting both models is not only relevant, it's important.
Ask AppleInsider why the keep posting Google articles.
But my experience with Quadra is that everything but Apple is a piece of crap.
Not necessarily. But if it doesn't have an Apple logo on it, I'm immediately suspicious. The device is "guilty before proven innocent", and judging by what's come out of Apple over the last decade and what's been copied and churned out elsewhere, a healthy dose of suspicion is certainly warranted, at least at first blush.
1) Apps. Loads of them. More than 100,000 available and 2 billion downloaded. Some companies are making up to $1 million a month in sales, something that Google won't get overnight
2) iTunes/iPod. Love it or hate it, iTunes is the defacto music manager and this is the one single thing that would keep me, even if all other things didn't count. I don't want to carry a $300 phone and a $300 iPod around with me. It's just not plausible for me to move over 800GBs of music and video to another format or manager, I think a lot of other people are the same
3) Standards. There are 3 iPhone models and aside of speed, they can all pretty much do the same thing. The problem with the many different versions of Android is that apps will have a hard time staying compatible or being performant on each. OK, so Command and Conquer is slow on the 1st and 2nd gen iPhones, but it works. Some games will be 3GS only, but as a developer, you know everyone who bought an iPhone since July has the same model. You only have to look at the state of WinMo to see what eventually happens when you have 20 different OEMs using different implementations of your OS. Even RIM has a relatively stable OS release/look and feel, which is why they've been so successful.
When all is said and done, Apple and Google may end up owning more than 50% of the market between them before too long (at least in the US and EU), and some people will always want to multi-task regardless of battery life or ease-of-use, which is fine. But the terms "iPhone killer" or even "Droid-killer" are nonsense. These phones are here to stay for a very long time.
"In comparison, Chen said the Droid and iPhone screens seemed "washed out."
Another way to say it is..."Next to the Droid and iPhone, the Nexus One seems garish and over saturated."
Are you concerned because you are thinking about buying an Android based phone? If not why do you keep bringing up this worthless point.
Oh, you are back, wonderful.