This would involve Apple dumping over eighty international carriers comprising over 50% of iPhone sales, to use non-existent hardware on a network that doesn't exist.
Somehow I don't see it happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phonedog
The next iphone will most likely be a 4g phone tied to contracts with verizon. In those terms, nexus one has already lost the battle. If the N1 indeed hits the market, it will be the best android phone on the market. From my perspective which is based on rejecting carriers that charge insane monthly fees, it just might be the perfect phone.
As far as the Nexus goes it will probably soon be competing with a HTC variant of exactly the same phone as historically this is what HTC does just look at why SonyEricsson stopped using them to manufacture phones after one model which was cloned.
At least HTC is moving resources away from WinMo based phones.
its so funny to see all these companys try to best apple and their mighty iphone!!
It's so funny to see all these companies try to best Sony and their mighty Walkman.
It's so funny to see all these companies try to best Nintendo and their mighty SNES.
It's so funny to see all these companies try to best Ford and their mighty Model T.
In short: you clearly feel very emotional about this, but the logical angle is that competition, emulation, and evolution is good for all of us. Also, please tone it down - you're playing into a stereotype at the moment and that's never a good thing.
I love threads like this, the problem with many of the points and points of view is that the products are moving targets.
The Nexus One is problematic, IF Google does retail this phone, it risks royally pissing off the members of the Open Handset Alliance. I suspect that the obviously non cell industry savvy Google employees (and if a few posts are to be believed, some were terminated for violating NDA's over the phone) got the whole non-subsidized phone through TMobile's recent plan changes confused by their desire for Google to turn into Apple.
The fact is, Google has gone on record as saying they aren't interested in retailing phones.
This is a sweet phone, and I will likely own one soon, I seriously love the iPhone, but will be dammed if I ever submit myself to the abuse that ATT considers customer service. Econ 101, "Vote with your dollars." I don't know for sure what Prof B would think of me owning >$100K of Apple stock & not using their products, but I suspect he'd be proud.
Hopefully iPhone OS 4.0 will move the goal posts a long way and make the copycats scramble to keep up.
That would be great. As of now, however, Apple is in scramble mode, with the goalposts quickly receding into the distance. Seemingly, the 3GS+ is already designed. Whether it will be good enough remains to be seen.
The supposely iPhone killers are allways compared by hardware features (how many people know what speed the CPU in the iPhone runs at, hardly any).
Yep. And therefore, the CPU speed is unimportant. Not.
Quote:
Small software things like have Core Animation: meaning ever app can easily use the same nice transitions (flipping around etc) as Apples own apps, make a big difference. By giving all apps the same polish and shine.
Personally, I care a whole lot more about what the app can do for me than I care about the nice transitions.
the first time I saw the page flipping over on an iPhone, and it delighted me. The second time I acknowledged it. The third time, I no longer cared. I don't value shiny, pretty things enough, perhaps. Give me an app that lets me multitask, and I'll deal with a lack of repetetive transition themes.[/QUOTE]
Quote:
So the Nexus will come and go (like every other iphonekiller) while the iPhone (leading years on the software side) will keep it's steady climb in marketshare.
The iPhone now a laggard in hardware. Every desirable program has been ported to Android. There are multiple choices in every category. Android is already more capable than the iOS; it can do stuff that Apple cripples on the iPhone. Perhaps someday, it might even be as shiny and pretty as the iOS. In the meantime, I don't understand your dismissive attitude toward facts.
Google is getting a licensing fee for the Android OS for pretty much every smartphone sold whether or not Android is being used?
Otherwise your comparison is totally worthless.
Nope. You take one reason, and postulate that unless it is present, the entire comparison fails. But the reason you cite is extremely minor.
If you can demonstrate that absent your reason, the software model would have failed, I will take your point into consideration. But absent such a demonstration, your point is not convincing.
Google is getting a licensing fee for the Android OS for pretty much every smartphone sold whether or not Android is being used?
Otherwise your comparison is totally worthless.
I had another thought: How and why did MS's sleazy tactic inspire third parties to overcome Windows fragmentation and successfully design software for the fragmented platform?
What the heck is the nexus between MS blackmailing hardware companies and say, Electronic Arts designing profitable software that would run on multiple Windows hardware and software configurations?
I see no connection whatsoever, but I'll still assume that you have some sort of a point. Can you make your point more explicit?
While it looks a little nicer, it's hardly a must have difference. It's an evolution - what a shocker, it came out six months after the last iPhone update.
Quote:
Its software, such as Google Navigation, a killer app, which is unavailable on the
iPhone.
I already have a better navigation app. Actually, I have several. The only thing google navigation has going for it is it's free. Believe it or not, some things are worth paying for. I've had friends plot routes with their droids and me with Navigon or TomTom - and Navigon and TomTom did a better job two out of the three times.
It's a good light use app and certainly an advantage for the Droid, but if navigation is something you are going to rely on, you are going to replace it pretty quick anyway.
Quote:
The ability to seamlessly multi-task
Which will no doubt be addressed in an upcoming iPhone OS update. The 3Gs definitely has the memory for it now. Again, this is evolution, not revolution and certainly not a "scramble" feature. I have only two use cases where I would even use it - background Internet radio station, and background GPS logging application. Irrelevant for the majority of what I do on the phone and probably why it's not an issue to the majority of iPhone users (if it was a real issue worthy of the hyping of it on the Internet, the Pre would have been mopping up already).
Quote:
The ability to both go to the official app store, or to go to anywhere else you wish to acquire software.
Yawn. This may come as a shocker, but I like a controlled App store with some minimum requirements for software quality. In case you haven't noticed, the general state of software on PC's and even Mac's is pretty pathetic. There are no standards for quality and vendors can and will often ship crap just to get it out the door. With no guarantee they will ever update it.
I think the App store concept with it's validation of code BEFORE it is allowed to ship has lots of value. Sure, it has some issues - but the concept is sound and can only improve over time. I like the stability of my iPhone. Unlike previous Palm or Windows Mobile devices I have owned, the iPhone is an incredible breath of fresh air.
Quote:
And other stuff.
"And yeah!" Seriously?
Quote:
Apple is now behind the curve. Ideally, I hope that iOS 4.0 raises the bar, but as of now, I hope that Apple will at least catch up.
Catch up? Apple invented the bar. They will do what they have in the past - they will not just raise the bar, but invent a totally new bar. Apple obsoleted the iPod with the iPhone and iPod touch. Not any other vendor, but Apple themselves. I love all these "I hope competition forces Apple to innovate" comments. Talk about total denial about the mobile space. Apple is the one propelling the rest of the entire mobile industry, not the other way around!
Nothing of what you cited is revolutionary - it's evolutionary. If that's the best you (or google) has, it's hardly enough to cause Apple to "scramble". There are plenty of companies scrambling, but Apple isn't one of them. They are who everyone else is scrambling after...
Nope. You take one reason, and postulate that unless it is present, the entire comparison fails. But the reason you cite is extremely minor.
The reason I cite is not "extremely minor" - the "microsoft tax" for Windows and Office on new machines is 90% of Microsoft's revenue! Their next largest revenue stream is, ironically, their Mac applications.
Less then 40% of their customers are on enterprise agreements. That's pretty pathetic and well below industry norms.
If even 20% of PC sales are disrupted away from Windows, MS is in serious trouble! They haven't been able to successfully derive revenue from another area of the company - ever! The entertainment division is profitable only if you don't include the costs of the Xbox360 extended warranty repairs.
Right now they are a one trick pony when it comes to revenue. The real irony is Apple is far more diversified then MS ever dreamed of being. It's just the momentum of what MS has from the "MS tax" is so huge it's easy to overlook exactly what is going on.
Companies, on average, have 50 years to re-invent themselves. MS is in the 30's - they are running out of time. Apple is now firmly entrenched where the next logical space was - personal mobile devices. It will be interesting to see where MS moves next, but they have serious long term (5-10 years out) issues. Apple, meanwhile, is firing on all cylinders. They aren't biting off more then they can chew, and are executing on delivering the whole ecosystem - and doing it far better then any other company. Sure, some companies can out-compete them in one or two minor areas, but no one can touch them for the whole enchilada...
I had another thought: How and why did MS's sleazy tactic inspire third parties to overcome Windows fragmentation and successfully design software for the fragmented platform?
There was no viable alternative at the time. Apple in the 90's was an unorganized joke. That's not the case now.
Quote:
What the heck is the nexus between MS blackmailing hardware companies and say, Electronic Arts designing profitable software that would run on multiple Windows hardware and software configurations?
If MS hadn't squeezed out other OS's by blackmailing hardware companies, companies like EA would likely have been on multiple platforms far earlier.
I hope any implementation of new features for the next iPhone also takes past adoptees into consideration. The 1G iPhone may be too far gone though.
I'm also hoping Apple is going into the next iteration with competitors in mind rather than going full steam ears closed. Sony tried that approach with their PS3 after the success of the PS2 and now they're playing catch up to the competition.
And I did check out a Droid at a Verizon outlet out of curiosity. I will admit, the hi res screen is very aesthetically pleasing. Even if it isn't a "standard" resolution, being able to read the text on a page before zooming is nice. Hopefully the 4G ups screen resolution too. Maybe Apple could take inspiration from the "densely packed pixels" of the small iPod nano screen.
The reason I cite is not "extremely minor" - the "microsoft tax" for Windows and Office on new machines is 90% of Microsoft's revenue! Their next largest revenue stream is, ironically, their Mac applications.
<SNIP>
That is beside the point. Your hatred of MS is irrelevant.
The topic is OS fragmentation. My point was that a thriving software ecosystem developed around MS despite severe fragmentation. You responded that MS used anticompetative practices. I asked what the heck that had to do with the topic at hand, and your response had nothing to do with developers overcoming fragmentation challenges.
Do you have a point about why and how Windowws fragmentation was unimportant, while Android fragmentation will be fatal to the platform? That is the topic you responded to.
And I did check out a Droid at a Verizon outlet out of curiosity. I will admit, the hi res screen is very aesthetically pleasing. Even if it isn't a "standard" resolution, being able to read the text on a page before zooming is nice. Hopefully the 4G ups screen resolution too.
I bought my kid an Archos 5 Internet Media Table. It runs the same Arm Cortex A8 CPU as the 3GS, but with a 4.8 inch, 800x480 (WVGA) screen. It displays full-width web pages in a readable size. It outputs 720P tothe TV set. It has 60 Gigs of storage. It plays flash videos and, many many video and audio codecs right out of the box.
It blows away my iPhone as a media viewer, eBook reader, music source, and as an internet access device. Indeed, it makes my 3GS look sick. It cost $159.00.
Comments
Somehow I don't see it happening.
The next iphone will most likely be a 4g phone tied to contracts with verizon. In those terms, nexus one has already lost the battle. If the N1 indeed hits the market, it will be the best android phone on the market. From my perspective which is based on rejecting carriers that charge insane monthly fees, it just might be the perfect phone.
As far as the Nexus goes it will probably soon be competing with a HTC variant of exactly the same phone as historically this is what HTC does just look at why SonyEricsson stopped using them to manufacture phones after one model which was cloned.
At least HTC is moving resources away from WinMo based phones.
its so funny to see all these companys try to best apple and their mighty iphone!!
It's so funny to see all these companies try to best Sony and their mighty Walkman.
It's so funny to see all these companies try to best Nintendo and their mighty SNES.
It's so funny to see all these companies try to best Ford and their mighty Model T.
In short: you clearly feel very emotional about this, but the logical angle is that competition, emulation, and evolution is good for all of us. Also, please tone it down - you're playing into a stereotype at the moment and that's never a good thing.
The Nexus One is problematic, IF Google does retail this phone, it risks royally pissing off the members of the Open Handset Alliance. I suspect that the obviously non cell industry savvy Google employees (and if a few posts are to be believed, some were terminated for violating NDA's over the phone) got the whole non-subsidized phone through TMobile's recent plan changes confused by their desire for Google to turn into Apple.
The fact is, Google has gone on record as saying they aren't interested in retailing phones.
This is a sweet phone, and I will likely own one soon, I seriously love the iPhone, but will be dammed if I ever submit myself to the abuse that ATT considers customer service. Econ 101, "Vote with your dollars." I don't know for sure what Prof B would think of me owning >$100K of Apple stock & not using their products, but I suspect he'd be proud.
Hopefully iPhone OS 4.0 will move the goal posts a long way and make the copycats scramble to keep up.
That would be great. As of now, however, Apple is in scramble mode, with the goalposts quickly receding into the distance. Seemingly, the 3GS+ is already designed. Whether it will be good enough remains to be seen.
The supposely iPhone killers are allways compared by hardware features (how many people know what speed the CPU in the iPhone runs at, hardly any).
Yep. And therefore, the CPU speed is unimportant. Not.
Small software things like have Core Animation: meaning ever app can easily use the same nice transitions (flipping around etc) as Apples own apps, make a big difference. By giving all apps the same polish and shine.
Personally, I care a whole lot more about what the app can do for me than I care about the nice transitions.
the first time I saw the page flipping over on an iPhone, and it delighted me. The second time I acknowledged it. The third time, I no longer cared. I don't value shiny, pretty things enough, perhaps. Give me an app that lets me multitask, and I'll deal with a lack of repetetive transition themes.[/QUOTE]
So the Nexus will come and go (like every other iphonekiller) while the iPhone (leading years on the software side) will keep it's steady climb in marketshare.
The iPhone now a laggard in hardware. Every desirable program has been ported to Android. There are multiple choices in every category. Android is already more capable than the iOS; it can do stuff that Apple cripples on the iPhone. Perhaps someday, it might even be as shiny and pretty as the iOS. In the meantime, I don't understand your dismissive attitude toward facts.
You only have to look at Windows Mobile to see why this is going to fail miserably.
The OPENNESS of the platform isn't important, as your average joe (more of them than geeks/nerds) really could care less about it being open-source.
You only have to look at Windows on the desktop to see how and why this challenge is going to be accommodated and overcome.
As of now, however, Apple is in scramble mode
Really? Be specific - what of substance is causing Apple to be in "scramble mode"?
You only have to look at Windows on the desktop to see how and why this challenge is going to be accommodated and overcome.
Google is getting a licensing fee for the Android OS for pretty much every smartphone sold whether or not Android is being used?
Otherwise your comparison is totally worthless.
Really? Be specific - what of substance is causing Apple to be in "scramble mode"?
The Droid's superior screen. Its software, such as
Google Navigation, a killer app, which is unavailable on the iPhone. The ability to seamlessly multi-task.
The ability to both go to the official app store, or to go to anywhere else you wish to acquire software.
And other stuff. Apple is now behind the curve. Ideally, I hope that iOS 4.0 raises the bar, but as of now, I hope that Apple will at least catch up.
Google is getting a licensing fee for the Android OS for pretty much every smartphone sold whether or not Android is being used?
Otherwise your comparison is totally worthless.
Nope. You take one reason, and postulate that unless it is present, the entire comparison fails. But the reason you cite is extremely minor.
If you can demonstrate that absent your reason, the software model would have failed, I will take your point into consideration. But absent such a demonstration, your point is not convincing.
Google is getting a licensing fee for the Android OS for pretty much every smartphone sold whether or not Android is being used?
Otherwise your comparison is totally worthless.
I had another thought: How and why did MS's sleazy tactic inspire third parties to overcome Windows fragmentation and successfully design software for the fragmented platform?
What the heck is the nexus between MS blackmailing hardware companies and say, Electronic Arts designing profitable software that would run on multiple Windows hardware and software configurations?
I see no connection whatsoever, but I'll still assume that you have some sort of a point. Can you make your point more explicit?
The N95's superior camera. Its software, such as
Nokia Maps, a killer app, which is unavailable on the iPhone. The ability to seamlessly multi-task.
The ability to both go to the official Nokia store, or to go to anywhere else you wish to acquire software.
And other stuff. Apple is now behind the curve. Ideally, I hope that iOS 2.0 raises the bar, but as of now, I hope that Apple will at least catch up.
/yawn I fixed it from a historical perspective...
...is that all you got?
You should have seen all the people buying iPhone's over Christmas.
The Droid's superior screen.
While it looks a little nicer, it's hardly a must have difference. It's an evolution - what a shocker, it came out six months after the last iPhone update.
Its software, such as Google Navigation, a killer app, which is unavailable on the
iPhone.
I already have a better navigation app. Actually, I have several. The only thing google navigation has going for it is it's free. Believe it or not, some things are worth paying for. I've had friends plot routes with their droids and me with Navigon or TomTom - and Navigon and TomTom did a better job two out of the three times.
It's a good light use app and certainly an advantage for the Droid, but if navigation is something you are going to rely on, you are going to replace it pretty quick anyway.
The ability to seamlessly multi-task
Which will no doubt be addressed in an upcoming iPhone OS update. The 3Gs definitely has the memory for it now. Again, this is evolution, not revolution and certainly not a "scramble" feature. I have only two use cases where I would even use it - background Internet radio station, and background GPS logging application. Irrelevant for the majority of what I do on the phone and probably why it's not an issue to the majority of iPhone users (if it was a real issue worthy of the hyping of it on the Internet, the Pre would have been mopping up already).
The ability to both go to the official app store, or to go to anywhere else you wish to acquire software.
Yawn. This may come as a shocker, but I like a controlled App store with some minimum requirements for software quality. In case you haven't noticed, the general state of software on PC's and even Mac's is pretty pathetic. There are no standards for quality and vendors can and will often ship crap just to get it out the door. With no guarantee they will ever update it.
I think the App store concept with it's validation of code BEFORE it is allowed to ship has lots of value. Sure, it has some issues - but the concept is sound and can only improve over time. I like the stability of my iPhone. Unlike previous Palm or Windows Mobile devices I have owned, the iPhone is an incredible breath of fresh air.
And other stuff.
"And yeah!" Seriously?
Apple is now behind the curve. Ideally, I hope that iOS 4.0 raises the bar, but as of now, I hope that Apple will at least catch up.
Catch up? Apple invented the bar. They will do what they have in the past - they will not just raise the bar, but invent a totally new bar. Apple obsoleted the iPod with the iPhone and iPod touch. Not any other vendor, but Apple themselves. I love all these "I hope competition forces Apple to innovate" comments. Talk about total denial about the mobile space. Apple is the one propelling the rest of the entire mobile industry, not the other way around!
Nothing of what you cited is revolutionary - it's evolutionary. If that's the best you (or google) has, it's hardly enough to cause Apple to "scramble". There are plenty of companies scrambling, but Apple isn't one of them. They are who everyone else is scrambling after...
Nope. You take one reason, and postulate that unless it is present, the entire comparison fails. But the reason you cite is extremely minor.
The reason I cite is not "extremely minor" - the "microsoft tax" for Windows and Office on new machines is 90% of Microsoft's revenue! Their next largest revenue stream is, ironically, their Mac applications.
Less then 40% of their customers are on enterprise agreements. That's pretty pathetic and well below industry norms.
If even 20% of PC sales are disrupted away from Windows, MS is in serious trouble! They haven't been able to successfully derive revenue from another area of the company - ever! The entertainment division is profitable only if you don't include the costs of the Xbox360 extended warranty repairs.
Right now they are a one trick pony when it comes to revenue. The real irony is Apple is far more diversified then MS ever dreamed of being. It's just the momentum of what MS has from the "MS tax" is so huge it's easy to overlook exactly what is going on.
Companies, on average, have 50 years to re-invent themselves. MS is in the 30's - they are running out of time. Apple is now firmly entrenched where the next logical space was - personal mobile devices. It will be interesting to see where MS moves next, but they have serious long term (5-10 years out) issues. Apple, meanwhile, is firing on all cylinders. They aren't biting off more then they can chew, and are executing on delivering the whole ecosystem - and doing it far better then any other company. Sure, some companies can out-compete them in one or two minor areas, but no one can touch them for the whole enchilada...
I had another thought: How and why did MS's sleazy tactic inspire third parties to overcome Windows fragmentation and successfully design software for the fragmented platform?
There was no viable alternative at the time. Apple in the 90's was an unorganized joke. That's not the case now.
What the heck is the nexus between MS blackmailing hardware companies and say, Electronic Arts designing profitable software that would run on multiple Windows hardware and software configurations?
If MS hadn't squeezed out other OS's by blackmailing hardware companies, companies like EA would likely have been on multiple platforms far earlier.
I'm also hoping Apple is going into the next iteration with competitors in mind rather than going full steam ears closed. Sony tried that approach with their PS3 after the success of the PS2 and now they're playing catch up to the competition.
And I did check out a Droid at a Verizon outlet out of curiosity. I will admit, the hi res screen is very aesthetically pleasing. Even if it isn't a "standard" resolution, being able to read the text on a page before zooming is nice. Hopefully the 4G ups screen resolution too. Maybe Apple could take inspiration from the "densely packed pixels" of the small iPod nano screen.
I hope any implementation of new features for the next iPhone also takes past adoptees into consideration. The 1G iPhone may be too far gone though.
After months of v2 on the market the G1 may finally be getting v2.0 or v2.1 in some form.It must be a great feeling to own a G1 and not know if short sided design has left you stranded so soon after you?ve made your purchase.
The reason I cite is not "extremely minor" - the "microsoft tax" for Windows and Office on new machines is 90% of Microsoft's revenue! Their next largest revenue stream is, ironically, their Mac applications.
<SNIP>
That is beside the point. Your hatred of MS is irrelevant.
The topic is OS fragmentation. My point was that a thriving software ecosystem developed around MS despite severe fragmentation. You responded that MS used anticompetative practices. I asked what the heck that had to do with the topic at hand, and your response had nothing to do with developers overcoming fragmentation challenges.
Do you have a point about why and how Windowws fragmentation was unimportant, while Android fragmentation will be fatal to the platform? That is the topic you responded to.
And I did check out a Droid at a Verizon outlet out of curiosity. I will admit, the hi res screen is very aesthetically pleasing. Even if it isn't a "standard" resolution, being able to read the text on a page before zooming is nice. Hopefully the 4G ups screen resolution too.
I bought my kid an Archos 5 Internet Media Table. It runs the same Arm Cortex A8 CPU as the 3GS, but with a 4.8 inch, 800x480 (WVGA) screen. It displays full-width web pages in a readable size. It outputs 720P tothe TV set. It has 60 Gigs of storage. It plays flash videos and, many many video and audio codecs right out of the box.
It blows away my iPhone as a media viewer, eBook reader, music source, and as an internet access device. Indeed, it makes my 3GS look sick. It cost $159.00.