I'll bet this is just another FUD presentation by Microsoft, to try to get consumers to hold off on buying Apple's products until they can ship a mobile operating system somebody actually wants to use.
Promise the moon, maybe deliver some mud in six months, or just forget to actually ship. Especially since Microsoft still is jerking people along with Windows Mobile 2010 edition.
Except the Courier concept is a huge break with established computing practice, and MS doesn't really do that. The video had a lot of blue-sky concepts around how data is handled that would require an entirely new OS-- moving things around by touch was the least of it. There was the kind of context sensitive OS level awareness that looks great when demoed around specific use-cases, but seems pretty unlikely when you consider a broader application. And how does that split screen hardware configuration work if you want to watch a full screen video? Seems like a pretty big drawback to have your device permanently split in half that way, even if you really want to run things full screen as big as possible. If there was a way of doing all that as an inexpensive day planner replacement, the kind of semi-dedicated device that people will pay a few hundred dollars for, then sure. But that's not going to happen.
I would say that that video was simply a compilation of a bunch of ideas (context sensitive flicking, 3D icon animations, gesture based text input handling, etc.), some of which may even find their way into shipping products.
But I don't think they'll even pretend that they're going to release something like the Courier concept.
Totally agree.
I think you gave MS too much credit in your first post though. I think it's more likely we will see essentially just another UMPC, but this time running Windows 7 and with a capacitive screen bolted onto it.
I'd love it if they did something Courier-like though as that thing is a dog wearing a fancy suit. The demo looked good(ish) but it's not even vapourware it's just a bunch of loose concepts that won't actually work together. I would just *love* to see MS come out with a new product, beating Apple to market for the first time, and then have it fail like the load of bricks it truly is. That would be almost worth paying for.
I think the OS will be Windows 7 though as they have been touting that for a while now (and it's multitouch support), and their only angle to defeat Apple's tablet is to provide what (some) people think Apple's tablet is missing. i.e - a "complete" Desktop OS. This will make it more of a slow motion, harder-to-see failure only visible in retrospect a year or two from now.
the Courier demo was the first impressive thing I have ever seen come out of Microsoft. I am actually pretty scared if Microsoft can deliver on Courier. It's interface was extremely intuitive and useful. The firt time I think I've ever used those words in the same topic as Microsoft!!!
... what (Microsoft) have shown was just a glorified concept of having an abstract/context-sensitive explorer on the left and a content area on the right screen. If you ignore the effects and animations it is nothing else than that - so, actually an old concept that can easily be applied to a lot of scenarios. Make a decent SDK for it and developers can certainly make it work for a lot of things. ...
I totally disagree with this.
Your assessment of what underlies Courier is spot on, but I don't see that it can be applied to multiple scenarios at all. Even if it can be applied to a few, it certainly can't stretch to be a complete OS, mobile or otherwise.
The Courier was originally a concept demo called the "Journal" and was intended as a research device to do exactly what you say, collect a bunch of sources into a Journal. The only reason we are talking about it, is Microsoft got caught flat-footed by Apple's mobile platform and someone at the top asked for Research to give them anything they were working on that was similar (tablet format and touch screen), that could be claimed was an innovative new system. Turn Apple's new tablet sideways and a simple five dollar app can imitate anything that Courier does.
As hardware, the Courier also has all the drawbacks of previous tablet attempts from Microsoft and anyone else who has tried so far. It's too heavy and too bulky to hold in one hand, and you can't really use it without putting it on a table or wearing your forearm out. All Apple's tablet has to be is lightweight and reasonably useful and they win (again).
For some of the background on where the Courier came from, see the Microsoft "Codex" research project, a mashup (in their own words) of the Apple Knowledge Navigator, Nintendo DS and the OLPC project. For more details see the paper [PDF] from Microsoft Research, and this video [YouTube] for a look-see at the device (two OQOs strapped together), the software (semi-interesting) and the once-again awful cringe-factor of Microsoft's internal videos.
This is from 2009, so they can't have gone much further than just a CGI mockup, can they? I don't see anything even vaguely interesting coming from Redmond for a good while yet. Besides, all the multi-touch gestures and interface design elements on the Courier are just plain wrong.
Microsoft Research has been hiring lots of great people for more than a decade. The real questions: can Microsoft translate research into products? Have the product groups benefited? (I recall that Talisman was an amazing commercial success! *grin*)
Courier is yet another interesting project. Will it escape the labs?
(More tablet goodness from Microsoft Research: InkSeine)
Apple fanatics switch from Delusionberry Kool-Aid to Lemon Haterade
More at 11...
Seriously you guys are just ridiculous. If the Courier makes its appearance i expect a sock in everyones mouth. Apple's Tablet is even more vaporware than MS Courier (but i guess since everyone and their grandma talks about it...it MUST BE REAL?!!)
To put it like this, if they show off a physical Courier that did exactly what that video showcased awhile back and comes with a decent price tag...well this Magical Unicorn Tablet had better blow the doors off, cause i was definitely wowed by the Courier, so much in fact that i would sell my Hackintosh for one if it truly comes out this year.
So much anticipation for Apple's still only rumored tablet!
But MS's and others seem like premature ejaculations.
I have to admit that I thought of a folding tablet, but reading some comments about playing movies and about difficulties in holding the thing during use, I can see the awkwardness of MS's design.
Also, I hate to write stuff if it's not on a stable horizontal surface, and I didn't see a keyboard on that thing. I'd imagine handwriting recognition would add a hefty computing overhead and be awkward when one or more characters were mis-recognized.
Apple fanatics switch from Delusionberry Kool-Aid to Lemon Haterade
More at 11...
Seriously you guys are just ridiculous. If the Courier makes its appearance i expect a sock in everyones mouth. Apple's Tablet is even more vaporware than MS Courier (but i guess since everyone and their grandma talks about it...it MUST BE REAL?!!)
To put it like this, if they show off a physical Courier that did exactly what that video showcased awhile back and comes with a decent price tag...well this Magical Unicorn Tablet had better blow the doors off, cause i was definitely wowed by the Courier, so much in fact that i would sell my Hackintosh for one if it truly comes out this year.
Sell your hackintosh, eh? Well that speaks volumes about your mental state--for both hacking one AND then selling it. Whassa matter, can't get no satisfaction now how?
And then you glom onto this new MS gewgaw, why? 'Cause it's kinda shiny and cool lookin'?
Umhum! Pretty sad.
Ever think about the dearth of Windoze Mobile software for this trinket?
Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer will introduce the device during his keynote speech at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.
He will sweat and slobber all over it, it will short out in a puff of smoke..
All monitors & televisions in the CES hall will fade to black and fade in...
An astonaut on the shuttle is outside in space, doing some tests. He pulls out a tablet device and takes a picture of the shuttle door with it and taps on the screen a few times. While the screen shows a bunch of data and displays some info, he is listening to Major Tom and taps his foot to the beat..
After a few seconds, the astronaut smiles approvingly, taps the screen again and says, "Houston, we have a go. Seems it was just the "windows" in the bay door getting all fogged up."
"Roger that Endeavour. Good job! Let's bring her on home.
Sell your hackintosh, eh? Well that speaks volumes about your mental state--for both hacking one AND then selling it. Whassa matter, can't get no satisfaction now how?
And then you glom onto this new MS gewgaw, why? 'Cause it's kinda shiny and cool lookin'?
Umhum! Pretty sad.
Ever think about the dearth of Windoze Mobile software for this trinket?
Wow your an idiot, did you seriously try to make a jab at me for owning a hackintosh and doing it myself? You sir are the one in a mental state, and your not funny to boot so fail on both accounts.
Guess what, you know that MS gewgaw (wtf is that, Apple baby talk?) even though it was a concept video if it has the features made in that video well atleast we know what its capable of, the only thing you know about Apples Mythical Tablet is they own islate...great logic there champ.
Now, why would Windows Mobile be brought into this discussion when Microsoft has tablet software based off *gasp* WINDOWS...in this case that would be Windows 7.
And how does that split screen hardware configuration work if you want to watch a full screen video? Seems like a pretty big drawback to have your device permanently split in half that way,
See that's what I don't get, MS usually announce vapourware on the eve of a genuine Apple product launch but why announce a Nintendo DS-killer?
Is it me or does iMovie look more Cocoa Touchy every time I use it? And why have I started to double-click columns in Safari to zoom them? If only Revision A wasn't such a heartbreak guarantee.
Wow your an idiot, did you seriously try to make a jab at me for owning a hackintosh and doing it myself? You sir are the one in a mental state, and your not funny to boot so fail on both accounts.
Guess what, you know that MS gewgaw (wtf is that, Apple baby talk?) even though it was a concept video if it has the features made in that video well atleast we know what its capable of, the only thing you know about Apples Mythical Tablet is they own islate...great logic there champ.
Now, why would Windows Mobile be brought into this discussion when Microsoft has tablet software based off *gasp* WINDOWS...in this case that would be Windows 7.
Main Entry: gew·gaw
Pronunciation: \\ˈg(y)ü-(ˌ)gȯ\\
Variant(s): also gee·gaw \\ˈjē-, ˈgē-\\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: circa 1529
: a showy trifle : bauble, trinket
It's possible to do some pretty informed speculation on what an Apple tablet might be like, because Apple has had great success with the iPod Touch and App Store and are likely looking to leverage that success. We don't have to make a distinction between OS X and whatever version Apple uses on new hardware, because Apple can tailor the UI and components to fit the form factor.
On the other had, we have a concept video with a bunch of UI stuff that's doesn't exist on any existing MS product, we have touch enabled Win 7, and we have a bunch of consumer handheld stuff based on WinCE. At the very least, any MS tablet is unlikely to simultaneously be running touch enabled Windows 7 and whatever was going on in that video, so you'll have to pick your poison.
On the other had, we have a concept video with a bunch of UI stuff that's doesn't exist on any existing MS product, we have touch enabled Win 7, and we have a bunch of consumer handheld stuff based on WinCE. At the very least, any MS tablet is unlikely to simultaneously be running touch enabled Windows 7 and whatever was going on in that video, so you'll have to pick your poison.
[CENTER]Really?
There appear to be several 'Courier-esque' UI elements in the just announced Hp TouchSmart TM2.
It's possible to do some pretty informed speculation on what an Apple tablet might be like, because Apple has had great success with the iPod Touch and App Store and are likely looking to leverage that success. We don't have to make a distinction between OS X and whatever version Apple uses on new hardware, because Apple can tailor the UI and components to fit the form factor.
On the other had, we have a concept video with a bunch of UI stuff that's doesn't exist on any existing MS product, we have touch enabled Win 7, and we have a bunch of consumer handheld stuff based on WinCE. At the very least, any MS tablet is unlikely to simultaneously be running touch enabled Windows 7 and whatever was going on in that video, so you'll have to pick your poison.
In laymans terms, your guessing which is absolutely fine because well...we have nothing to go on except what they already have and how WE think they can expand upon their success.
Again everyone is diggin on MS for not having said UI items physically but recently i'd say MS has been on a roll, take a look at their BIG products. Xbox 360 has a great UI, Windows 7 has an excellent UI they added a bunch of new stuff to, Zune HD has a great UI but comes a little too late to the party. WinMo 7 while oft delayed seems to be on a good track to pull WM out from the stoneage compared against iPhone OS and Android. Sadly WM6.5 was just a bitter rehash, even though HTC is making it quite appealing with the HD2.
Now I know people will cry and whine about it simply because it IS Microsoft and attack everything MS out of sheer nature (fighting the power i guess?) but seeing the track record with what they have done, id say the chances of this stuff being implemented or real is pretty high right now.
I think the Courier could be a nice option but for a niche market. I dont care for ebooks or media stuff to be honest but this would be a killer school companion since it has the form factor of a laptop but with that something extra and this gives Microsoft the opportunity to lay WindowsCE to rest and start anew with Windows 7 foundations (this UI being built on top), especially since Apple is getting into the game, and Android is starting to infringe on their territory MS has held for quite some time unchallenged.
The term gewgaw is largely considered archaic (circa 1529 - LOL!) by today's vocabulary standards, and let's be honest here - had it not been used in this forum tonight you (probably) wouldn't have even known its meaning or that it is (in fact) considered archaic.
Now about that Hp/MS Courier announcement tomorrow... I Hope It's An Incredible Device![/CENTER]
If something like the Courier is shown tomorrow, kudos to HP and Microsoft.
Still, I couldn't care less. The problem, and it's a big one, is it will still be a Windows machine. It will bring with it all that's inherently wrong and bad that operating system.
Comments
Promise the moon, maybe deliver some mud in six months, or just forget to actually ship. Especially since Microsoft still is jerking people along with Windows Mobile 2010 edition.
Except the Courier concept is a huge break with established computing practice, and MS doesn't really do that. The video had a lot of blue-sky concepts around how data is handled that would require an entirely new OS-- moving things around by touch was the least of it. There was the kind of context sensitive OS level awareness that looks great when demoed around specific use-cases, but seems pretty unlikely when you consider a broader application. And how does that split screen hardware configuration work if you want to watch a full screen video? Seems like a pretty big drawback to have your device permanently split in half that way, even if you really want to run things full screen as big as possible. If there was a way of doing all that as an inexpensive day planner replacement, the kind of semi-dedicated device that people will pay a few hundred dollars for, then sure. But that's not going to happen.
I would say that that video was simply a compilation of a bunch of ideas (context sensitive flicking, 3D icon animations, gesture based text input handling, etc.), some of which may even find their way into shipping products.
But I don't think they'll even pretend that they're going to release something like the Courier concept.
Totally agree.
I think you gave MS too much credit in your first post though. I think it's more likely we will see essentially just another UMPC, but this time running Windows 7 and with a capacitive screen bolted onto it.
I'd love it if they did something Courier-like though as that thing is a dog wearing a fancy suit. The demo looked good(ish) but it's not even vapourware it's just a bunch of loose concepts that won't actually work together. I would just *love* to see MS come out with a new product, beating Apple to market for the first time, and then have it fail like the load of bricks it truly is. That would be almost worth paying for.
I think the OS will be Windows 7 though as they have been touting that for a while now (and it's multitouch support), and their only angle to defeat Apple's tablet is to provide what (some) people think Apple's tablet is missing. i.e - a "complete" Desktop OS. This will make it more of a slow motion, harder-to-see failure only visible in retrospect a year or two from now.
... what (Microsoft) have shown was just a glorified concept of having an abstract/context-sensitive explorer on the left and a content area on the right screen. If you ignore the effects and animations it is nothing else than that - so, actually an old concept that can easily be applied to a lot of scenarios. Make a decent SDK for it and developers can certainly make it work for a lot of things. ...
I totally disagree with this.
Your assessment of what underlies Courier is spot on, but I don't see that it can be applied to multiple scenarios at all. Even if it can be applied to a few, it certainly can't stretch to be a complete OS, mobile or otherwise.
The Courier was originally a concept demo called the "Journal" and was intended as a research device to do exactly what you say, collect a bunch of sources into a Journal. The only reason we are talking about it, is Microsoft got caught flat-footed by Apple's mobile platform and someone at the top asked for Research to give them anything they were working on that was similar (tablet format and touch screen), that could be claimed was an innovative new system. Turn Apple's new tablet sideways and a simple five dollar app can imitate anything that Courier does.
As hardware, the Courier also has all the drawbacks of previous tablet attempts from Microsoft and anyone else who has tried so far. It's too heavy and too bulky to hold in one hand, and you can't really use it without putting it on a table or wearing your forearm out. All Apple's tablet has to be is lightweight and reasonably useful and they win (again).
This is from 2009, so they can't have gone much further than just a CGI mockup, can they? I don't see anything even vaguely interesting coming from Redmond for a good while yet. Besides, all the multi-touch gestures and interface design elements on the Courier are just plain wrong.
Courier is yet another interesting project. Will it escape the labs?
(More tablet goodness from Microsoft Research: InkSeine)
Apple fanatics switch from Delusionberry Kool-Aid to Lemon Haterade
More at 11...
Seriously you guys are just ridiculous. If the Courier makes its appearance i expect a sock in everyones mouth. Apple's Tablet is even more vaporware than MS Courier (but i guess since everyone and their grandma talks about it...it MUST BE REAL?!!)
To put it like this, if they show off a physical Courier that did exactly what that video showcased awhile back and comes with a decent price tag...well this Magical Unicorn Tablet had better blow the doors off, cause i was definitely wowed by the Courier, so much in fact that i would sell my Hackintosh for one if it truly comes out this year.
But MS's and others seem like premature ejaculations.
I have to admit that I thought of a folding tablet, but reading some comments about playing movies and about difficulties in holding the thing during use, I can see the awkwardness of MS's design.
Also, I hate to write stuff if it's not on a stable horizontal surface, and I didn't see a keyboard on that thing. I'd imagine handwriting recognition would add a hefty computing overhead and be awkward when one or more characters were mis-recognized.
BREAKING NEWS STORY!!!
Apple fanatics switch from Delusionberry Kool-Aid to Lemon Haterade
More at 11...
Seriously you guys are just ridiculous. If the Courier makes its appearance i expect a sock in everyones mouth. Apple's Tablet is even more vaporware than MS Courier (but i guess since everyone and their grandma talks about it...it MUST BE REAL?!!)
To put it like this, if they show off a physical Courier that did exactly what that video showcased awhile back and comes with a decent price tag...well this Magical Unicorn Tablet had better blow the doors off, cause i was definitely wowed by the Courier, so much in fact that i would sell my Hackintosh for one if it truly comes out this year.
Sell your hackintosh, eh? Well that speaks volumes about your mental state--for both hacking one AND then selling it. Whassa matter, can't get no satisfaction now how?
And then you glom onto this new MS gewgaw, why? 'Cause it's kinda shiny and cool lookin'?
Umhum! Pretty sad.
Ever think about the dearth of Windoze Mobile software for this trinket?
Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer will introduce the device during his keynote speech at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.
He will sweat and slobber all over it, it will short out in a puff of smoke..
All monitors & televisions in the CES hall will fade to black and fade in...
An astonaut on the shuttle is outside in space, doing some tests. He pulls out a tablet device and takes a picture of the shuttle door with it and taps on the screen a few times. While the screen shows a bunch of data and displays some info, he is listening to Major Tom and taps his foot to the beat..
After a few seconds, the astronaut smiles approvingly, taps the screen again and says, "Houston, we have a go. Seems it was just the "windows" in the bay door getting all fogged up."
"Roger that Endeavour. Good job! Let's bring her on home.
(Fade in Led Zeppelin "Bring It On Home")
Apple [insert any name except iTablet here]
Available now...
Sell your hackintosh, eh? Well that speaks volumes about your mental state--for both hacking one AND then selling it. Whassa matter, can't get no satisfaction now how?
And then you glom onto this new MS gewgaw, why? 'Cause it's kinda shiny and cool lookin'?
Umhum! Pretty sad.
Ever think about the dearth of Windoze Mobile software for this trinket?
Wow your an idiot, did you seriously try to make a jab at me for owning a hackintosh and doing it myself? You sir are the one in a mental state, and your not funny to boot so fail on both accounts.
Guess what, you know that MS gewgaw (wtf is that, Apple baby talk?) even though it was a concept video if it has the features made in that video well atleast we know what its capable of, the only thing you know about Apples Mythical Tablet is they own islate...great logic there champ.
Now, why would Windows Mobile be brought into this discussion when Microsoft has tablet software based off *gasp* WINDOWS...in this case that would be Windows 7.
And how does that split screen hardware configuration work if you want to watch a full screen video? Seems like a pretty big drawback to have your device permanently split in half that way,
See that's what I don't get, MS usually announce vapourware on the eve of a genuine Apple product launch but why announce a Nintendo DS-killer?
Is it me or does iMovie look more Cocoa Touchy every time I use it? And why have I started to double-click columns in Safari to zoom them? If only Revision A wasn't such a heartbreak guarantee.
McD
Wow your an idiot, did you seriously try to make a jab at me for owning a hackintosh and doing it myself? You sir are the one in a mental state, and your not funny to boot so fail on both accounts.
Guess what, you know that MS gewgaw (wtf is that, Apple baby talk?) even though it was a concept video if it has the features made in that video well atleast we know what its capable of, the only thing you know about Apples Mythical Tablet is they own islate...great logic there champ.
Now, why would Windows Mobile be brought into this discussion when Microsoft has tablet software based off *gasp* WINDOWS...in this case that would be Windows 7.
Main Entry: gew·gaw
Pronunciation: \\ˈg(y)ü-(ˌ)gȯ\\
Variant(s): also gee·gaw \\ˈjē-, ˈgē-\\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: circa 1529
: a showy trifle : bauble, trinket
It's possible to do some pretty informed speculation on what an Apple tablet might be like, because Apple has had great success with the iPod Touch and App Store and are likely looking to leverage that success. We don't have to make a distinction between OS X and whatever version Apple uses on new hardware, because Apple can tailor the UI and components to fit the form factor.
On the other had, we have a concept video with a bunch of UI stuff that's doesn't exist on any existing MS product, we have touch enabled Win 7, and we have a bunch of consumer handheld stuff based on WinCE. At the very least, any MS tablet is unlikely to simultaneously be running touch enabled Windows 7 and whatever was going on in that video, so you'll have to pick your poison.
On the other had, we have a concept video with a bunch of UI stuff that's doesn't exist on any existing MS product, we have touch enabled Win 7, and we have a bunch of consumer handheld stuff based on WinCE. At the very least, any MS tablet is unlikely to simultaneously be running touch enabled Windows 7 and whatever was going on in that video, so you'll have to pick your poison.
[CENTER]Really?
There appear to be several 'Courier-esque' UI elements in the just announced Hp TouchSmart TM2.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/06/h...nd-spruces-up/
Who's to say that this isn't merely a small taste of the technology that the Hp/MS Courier GUI will utilize?
We'll See Soon Enough...[/CENTER]
MS gewgaw (wtf is that, Apple baby talk?)
English vocabulary FAIL!
It's possible to do some pretty informed speculation on what an Apple tablet might be like, because Apple has had great success with the iPod Touch and App Store and are likely looking to leverage that success. We don't have to make a distinction between OS X and whatever version Apple uses on new hardware, because Apple can tailor the UI and components to fit the form factor.
On the other had, we have a concept video with a bunch of UI stuff that's doesn't exist on any existing MS product, we have touch enabled Win 7, and we have a bunch of consumer handheld stuff based on WinCE. At the very least, any MS tablet is unlikely to simultaneously be running touch enabled Windows 7 and whatever was going on in that video, so you'll have to pick your poison.
In laymans terms, your guessing which is absolutely fine because well...we have nothing to go on except what they already have and how WE think they can expand upon their success.
Again everyone is diggin on MS for not having said UI items physically but recently i'd say MS has been on a roll, take a look at their BIG products. Xbox 360 has a great UI, Windows 7 has an excellent UI they added a bunch of new stuff to, Zune HD has a great UI but comes a little too late to the party. WinMo 7 while oft delayed seems to be on a good track to pull WM out from the stoneage compared against iPhone OS and Android. Sadly WM6.5 was just a bitter rehash, even though HTC is making it quite appealing with the HD2.
Now I know people will cry and whine about it simply because it IS Microsoft and attack everything MS out of sheer nature (fighting the power i guess?) but seeing the track record with what they have done, id say the chances of this stuff being implemented or real is pretty high right now.
I think the Courier could be a nice option but for a niche market. I dont care for ebooks or media stuff to be honest but this would be a killer school companion since it has the form factor of a laptop but with that something extra and this gives Microsoft the opportunity to lay WindowsCE to rest and start anew with Windows 7 foundations (this UI being built on top), especially since Apple is getting into the game, and Android is starting to infringe on their territory MS has held for quite some time unchallenged.
English vocabulary FAIL!
[CENTER]Actually...
The term gewgaw is largely considered archaic (circa 1529 - LOL!) by today's vocabulary standards, and let's be honest here - had it not been used in this forum tonight you (probably) wouldn't have even known its meaning or that it is (in fact) considered archaic.
Now about that Hp/MS Courier announcement tomorrow... I Hope It's An Incredible Device![/CENTER]
i smell vaporware ...
Me too.
If something like the Courier is shown tomorrow, kudos to HP and Microsoft.
Still, I couldn't care less. The problem, and it's a big one, is it will still be a Windows machine. It will bring with it all that's inherently wrong and bad that operating system.