The pogo-stick...that reminds me...there are three other existing modes of trasnsport which are arguably more practical and definitely more fuel-efficient than our beloved mega-scooter:
Roller-blades
Skateboard
Oxygen Scooter (but only if they're still "rad" this year)
[snip]
One thing I will admit is cool is the gyro-sensor thingies inside that keep it from falling over / keep it stable. Otherwise, the concept seems less than convincing to me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And here you have stated the reason why the latter is better than the former. You CANNOT knock it or the person on it over. The reporters and executives tried hard and could not do it, including pushing the guy on the scooter hard in the chest while he was moving foreward. Try that on an "oxygen sccoter" and hope that your helmet and other protective gear is on right as you will be knocked head over teakettle likely.
would you guys calm down already?!? geez... i am a mix of both Moogs' and groverat's opinions... i can't afford it right now, so getting one is a moot point for me. but i guarantee, when i get on one, my wife will have to physically restrain me from buying one on the spot -- it looks that darn cool.
it's one of those things that i bet, once you get on it and try it, you won't be able to give it back. kinda like the mac!
[quote]Fact: at $3000 only the very well-to-do or rich can truly afford one.<hr></blockquote>
And the corporate, which is why it's being targeted at corporate, government and military buyers in its first release.
They get to pay for the $100 million spent on research and work out the remaining glitches (too heavy, not enough range, hard to secure) and any unforeseen complications. Not to mention that the question of how well the Segway will fit into existing types of traffic will be answered by the time it hits the consumer market: The post office, among other institutions, will have been using them for at least a year.
[quote]Any genuinely great invention is by definition within reach of the common man.<hr></blockquote>
Even assuming that this is true (are rockets capable of escaping Earth's gravity within reach of the common man?) hardly any of them are initially. Cars were esoteric, hand-built luxury items of dubious practical value for many years.
The Segway has one crucial advantage: It's much more intuitive - and less risky - to operate than any other mode of transportation except your feet.
[quote]This isn't, nor will it be for the forseeable future. It's a rich man's toy that will be stuffing lots of rich men's garages and attic spaces in a couple years.<hr></blockquote>
And a couple of years after that? The tendency of technology is to get smaller and cheaper. Batteries tend to last longer and longer. And there's always the second-hand market, which is still one of the most important ways that cars are affordable to ordinary people.
This will be a bigger deal in some places than others, obviously. Out here in the Midwest, 20-50 mile commutes on highways are common. Ditto southern California. But New York City, Portland, possibly San Diego; and all the European cities with narrow streets that were awkwardly retrofitted for automotive traffic; or cities in developing nations where pedestrians, carts and bicycles are far more common than cars... these are all fertile markets.
Hell, I'd want them to succeed just so that I could step out onto a city street without getting faint from automotive fumes.
car, bus, train, subway, motorcycle, moped : dirty and sometimes dangerous.<hr></blockquote>
True to an extent. In Europe and elsewhere many pollution free train and subway systems have been put into use. Not sure about our subway systems (as far as pollution goes). There are even busses in some places that run entirely on ethanol (much cleaner, reduces auto traffic, etc).
[quote]This thing won't pollute the environment. You say it can only go 15 miles, well this is perfect for city dwellers.<hr></blockquote>
Honestly, can picture yourself on a cold windy day, or a rainy day...or a brutally hot day...riding your scooter three or four miles to work or to the bookstore or wherever? I can't.
[quote]Anyone who lives in or around a city (especially NY) can see how useful this device *COULD BE*....<hr></blockquote>
Yah, but in 20 years it will likely bear little resemblance physically or functionally to what you see now. In other words that will be a totally different (innovation)...but you can make the argument one has to start somewhere...I just think this thing has a very limited niche. Requires good weather (for the operator, not the gizmo itself), distances short enough to walk, a place to store and charge it on every street corner, etc. etc.
[quote]I could make it to and from work on one single charge.<hr></blockquote>
If you envision it as safe enough for this scooter (traffic and pedestrian-wise), isn't also safe to say it's safe enough (or close enough) for a bicycle, roller-blades or feet? Being honest there...not sarcastic. I still don't see the gap that it fills (assuming the person using it isn't averse to walking a mile or two every day).
[quote]This isn't meant to replace the car in suburbia. The sunday drive isn't going to become the sunday "scoot".<hr></blockquote>
Clearly not, and for the record I never suggested it would be.
[quote]So here we have a device that you stand on facing forward, not sideways like a scooter or skateboard, is safe, clean and runs on 10 cents worth of electricity a day. I think its a great invention for city folk like myself who hates getting on the subway just to go to their favorite grocery store. Now, once the price comes down it will be even better.
Oh, and Kamen never started the hype. The book proposal was leaked to Inside.com and from there it turned into a big mess. Kamen didn't out right say what it was because his patents didn't go through yet. He was only protecting himself.<hr></blockquote>
I don't know about all the "info leaks" and such; I just know GMA played it up in a way that was misleading. And while I should expect that in this day and age, that doesn't mean I have to condone it. Finally, I concur that perhaps some of the technologies used therein (the gyro thing, the motor) could be used in the future for something that is actually practical to the average city dweller...but until that day comes...I maintain what we have here is a rich man's toy.
I think people are over blowing the need to charge this thing. 15 miles is a long way. People are still stuck on the car idea. I think too many people are still too stuck on the car.
Here in the city people walk all the time everywhere. Hot cold rain snow. Having a nice scooter to take you there in the hot cold rain snow whould be welcome.
And here you have stated the reason why the latter is better than the former. You CANNOT knock it or the person on it over. The reporters and executives tried hard and could not do it, including pushing the guy on the scooter hard in the chest while he was moving foreward. Try that on an "oxygen sccoter"....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe and maybe not Noah. I openly admit the balance feature is impressive, but that doesn't make it more practical or easy to use than the others necessarily. We have to define who is using it and why to answer that question.
A couple of people have alluded to the fact that perhaps people with heart problems or people who are older could use this device but not a bicycle or say roller-blades. Maybe (because those two items require balance), but if your Mom or Dad has heart problems (for example), can you not envision some fairly unattractice scenarios even with the scooter balancing for them?
Balanced or not, they're equally exposed to traffic and roadside hazards as items like bicycles or someone on roller-blades, but perhaps even *less* able to avoid a bad situation. Put another way, you may not be able to knock the scooter over , but with a little surprise or brute force you could sure as hell cause someone to lose their grip on the scooter and thus incur serious injury.
What happens when you got 20 people on the same patch of sidewalk using these things - some of them are backing up, others turning or weaving at random, others speeding straight ahead?
It's hard enough for older folks or people who have health conditions to drive in cars where the rules of the road are very straight forward and mostly adhered to.
This thing, being intended for sidewalk use, has a lot of potential to cause chaos and injury because there are basically no rules governing sidewalk usage...you're going to have a mix of bicycles, pedestrians, taxi-cabs (pulling to and from the curbs) and segways...I think the mental picture that comes from such a scenario is not hard to envision, nor are the problems that would come with it.
I dunno. It just doesn't seem well though out in terms of how it would fit into our existing sidewalk and road systems (or with how people use them and will definitely continue to use them)....
Was there anything mentioned about security for this scooter? Does it have a lock? Would one have to disassemble it and carry it with them when they reach their destination?
If not, then I guess a special bike lock to a sign post or parking meter would suffice.
(Hey inventors out there...start thinking!)
Still, I envision grannie getting knocked off by a scooter hijacker...
I dunno. Excluding the physically challenged this still is more or less a toy for the rich... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>I think people are over blowing the need to charge this thing. 15 miles is a long way. People are still stuck on the car idea. I think too many people are still too stuck on the car.
Here in the city people walk all the time everywhere. Hot cold rain snow. Having a nice scooter to take you there in the hot cold rain snow whould be welcome.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe the possibility of shorter "commute" times would appeal to some (vs. a few more minutes in the bitter cold), but I'll believe these things work on snow or ice-slicked sidewalks / roads when I see it...especially Chicago sidewalks.
Further, when you think about it...if you're on a crowded city sidewalk...how is that this thing will get you to your destination more quickly? You can't very well run people over, and you can't use the street (because you'll be the one to get steam-rolled then)...so in the end you're on your scooter, travelling at the same 1 or 2 mph everyone else is.
Either that, or they're going to have to mandate "scooter / bike" lanes on every sidewalk...good luck with that one....
moogs, that was the other thing i mentioned to co-workers today... the way he re-invented, essentially, human equilibrium in this scooter could have some MASSIVE ramifications for other modes of transportation, as well as robotics (look how long it took them to teach a robot to walk up and down stairs... i bet they wish they had had access to this technology when they were researching).
even if he doesn't make a fortune off the segway, he WILL off the patented "dynamic stabilzation" he's developed.
p.s. steve jobs did say they'd have to build cities with this invention in mind... maybe he meant segway lanes.
Maybe the possibility of shorter "commute" times would appeal to some (vs. a few more minutes in the bitter cold), but I'll believe these things work on snow or ice-slicked sidewalks / roads when I see it...especially Chicago sidewalks.
Further, when you think about it...if you're on a crowded city sidewalk...how is that this thing will get you to your destination more quickly? You can't very well run people over, and you can't use the street (because you'll be the one to get steam-rolled then)...so in the end you're on your scooter, travelling at the same 1 or 2 mph everyone else is.
Either that, or they're going to have to mandate "scooter / bike" lanes on every sidewalk...good luck with that one....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
And that would be just fine with Portland, OR as there is a mandate that all new roads and all raods that are upgraded HAVE to have bike lanes. It is already in place here. Where's my ($300) Segway?
More power to ya brother...if I had to make a guess as to which cities might already have such Segway lanes in the works, Portland, Seattle and Vancouver would all be on my short list. Chicago might eventually get them too...by 2012...maybe.
As Scott and others might attest, the roads and sidewalks in greater Chicago are less-than-well-maintained. Let alone "forward thinking."
Idiot luddites are the reason innovation like this fails 99 times out of 100.
If those among us who are supposedly tech-minded piss and moan like spoiled children than one can only imagine the masses.
Busses and subways don't allow you to go where you want when you want. Rollerblades and skateboards are dangerous. Bikes are dangerous to real pedestrians. Cars are an inefficient means of urban travel.
Those of us who live in places that would benefit from such devices are more likely to see the benefits, and apparently those of you that live in a more car-oriented place look at it as some kind of insult.
It's new and it's even called the SEGWAY (*segue*) for God's sake.
Sort of off topic, but not really. Has anyone else here seen the Disney cartoon made an eon ago about how Pogo sticks could fix the traffic problem? Using all Goofy type characters they showed how parking was fixed because you could put 300 pogo sticks into 1 full size car spot and so on.
That cartoon had me thinking as a kid how it was plausible (I was young) but now the Segway in no small way makes that even more probable. Anyone else agree, or remember that cartoon?
Luddite? I don't think anyone here (including myself) has said anything that might be heard at your local anti-technology, UNA-bomber sympathy conference. We're simply pointing out the obvious flaws (and advancements too) of this Segway thing.
Either way yourself and a few others keep implying people can't get hurt using this thing. If you can't picture how using such a vehicle could quickly become "dangerous" (assuming they will share the same crowded sidewalks and roads as everyone else)...you're kidding yourself. It may not be dangerous in and of itself, but then, with a little bit of training, none of the other modes are dangerous by themselves either...it's the congestion on the roadways and sidewalks that inevitably causes all the problems.
Think about it: you're out in the open and exposed to all the dangers that everyone else (not in a car or bus) is exposed to. Getting hit or side-swiped by cars or other large vehicles, running into people, buildings or other scooters...at a net speed of 24 mph...a "head on" scooter collision could result in a mess for the sidewalk custodian if you know what I'm saying.
In short, I still haven't heard a case for the particular niche that this thing fills, that can't already be efficiently handled (by the average Joe, not someone who is sick or old or injured) using some other means of transport.
<strong>Chicago might eventually get them too...by 2012...maybe.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't poo poo Chicago. The Mayor is a cyclist. Bikes are part of the city transportaiton plan. Look at the Navy Peir Flyover. The best part may be that what the Mayor wants he gets.
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ?:
<strong>As Scott and others might attest, the roads and sidewalks in greater Chicago are less-than-well-maintained. Let alone "forward thinking."
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't sell us short. The city does an okay job fixing the sidewalks. Remember there's a lot of sidewalks to maintain.
i dont know about over ther, but here, w/ everyone walking and driving and biking and whatever, well all this combined can be dangerous. now, throw into the mix yet another mode of transportation. yes, as moogs said, alone it is harmless. but among other things, it can be as dangerous as walking. hell, 2 people walking into eachother can result in some danger i suppose, although not much...
but put a 12 mph scooter up against another scooter or bike in a crowded area, well it can result in some interesting accidents. besides, how efficient can a scooter be when it is limited by the crowd anyway?? i hardly think one of these scooters can get through a crowd any better than walking, or any safer than biking. dont expect everyone to just jump out of the way for u, just cause yer riding a $3k fancy new "innovation." yes, it is cool...but i hardly think its all that more practical than other things out there, or safer.
its simply a way for lazy people to get around easier...
but put a 12 mph scooter up against another scooter or bike in a crowded area, well it can result in some interesting accidents.</strong><hr></blockquote>
People shouldn't be riding anything, bike/scooter, in a crowd anyway. Like you say there's no point.
"So, will it revolutionize urban life as the press-hype surrounding its initial disclosure dared predict? Probably not.
First off, it's expensive. On top of that, it weighs 65 lbs, making it a real monster to drag home on an empty battery. But then again, it's not so heavy that it can't easily be grabbed and tossed into the back of someone else's pickup truck.
And anyway, they'll be banned from municipal sidewalks the split second some 18-month-old toddler gets crushed and paralyzed for life. Teenagers will re-jigger them, make them go very fast, and break their necks in Extreme Ginger exhibitions in front of admiring babes, leading to further restrictions by official killjoys. Small children will ride them down stairs, to very bad outcomes. And dogs will chase them relentlessly.
For dogs, surely, Ginger is proof of God's infinite love and generosity. For the rest of us, it's an amusing novelty, possibly a fad, but we don't quite see, as Steve Jobs reportedly did, cities being designed around it."
People shouldn't be riding anything, bike/scooter, in a crowd anyway. Like you say there's no point.</strong><hr></blockquote>
look at a college campus--people do all that and more all at the same time. its chaos...
but somehow we all manage to get where we're going...eventually... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
ok, well most people are saying that this scooter would be great for big cities--which is basically huge crowds going places...which means people and bikes and scooters all going every which way...chaos, n'est pas?
it was simply a response to grovers stupid lil rant about how every mode of transportation other that this scooter (aka savior or all of humanity) is so dangerous that we would be stupid to choose them over the scooter...
Comments
<strong>
The pogo-stick...that reminds me...there are three other existing modes of trasnsport which are arguably more practical and definitely more fuel-efficient than our beloved mega-scooter:
Roller-blades
Skateboard
Oxygen Scooter (but only if they're still "rad" this year)
[snip]
One thing I will admit is cool is the gyro-sensor thingies inside that keep it from falling over / keep it stable. Otherwise, the concept seems less than convincing to me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And here you have stated the reason why the latter is better than the former. You CANNOT knock it or the person on it over. The reporters and executives tried hard and could not do it, including pushing the guy on the scooter hard in the chest while he was moving foreward. Try that on an "oxygen sccoter" and hope that your helmet and other protective gear is on right as you will be knocked head over teakettle likely.
it's one of those things that i bet, once you get on it and try it, you won't be able to give it back. kinda like the mac!
And the corporate, which is why it's being targeted at corporate, government and military buyers in its first release.
They get to pay for the $100 million spent on research and work out the remaining glitches (too heavy, not enough range, hard to secure) and any unforeseen complications. Not to mention that the question of how well the Segway will fit into existing types of traffic will be answered by the time it hits the consumer market: The post office, among other institutions, will have been using them for at least a year.
[quote]Any genuinely great invention is by definition within reach of the common man.<hr></blockquote>
Even assuming that this is true (are rockets capable of escaping Earth's gravity within reach of the common man?) hardly any of them are initially. Cars were esoteric, hand-built luxury items of dubious practical value for many years.
The Segway has one crucial advantage: It's much more intuitive - and less risky - to operate than any other mode of transportation except your feet.
[quote]This isn't, nor will it be for the forseeable future. It's a rich man's toy that will be stuffing lots of rich men's garages and attic spaces in a couple years.<hr></blockquote>
And a couple of years after that? The tendency of technology is to get smaller and cheaper. Batteries tend to last longer and longer. And there's always the second-hand market, which is still one of the most important ways that cars are affordable to ordinary people.
This will be a bigger deal in some places than others, obviously. Out here in the Midwest, 20-50 mile commutes on highways are common. Ditto southern California. But New York City, Portland, possibly San Diego; and all the European cities with narrow streets that were awkwardly retrofitted for automotive traffic; or cities in developing nations where pedestrians, carts and bicycles are far more common than cars... these are all fertile markets.
Hell, I'd want them to succeed just so that I could step out onto a city street without getting faint from automotive fumes.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Amorph ]
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
car, bus, train, subway, motorcycle, moped : dirty and sometimes dangerous.<hr></blockquote>
True to an extent. In Europe and elsewhere many pollution free train and subway systems have been put into use. Not sure about our subway systems (as far as pollution goes). There are even busses in some places that run entirely on ethanol (much cleaner, reduces auto traffic, etc).
[quote]This thing won't pollute the environment. You say it can only go 15 miles, well this is perfect for city dwellers.<hr></blockquote>
Honestly, can picture yourself on a cold windy day, or a rainy day...or a brutally hot day...riding your scooter three or four miles to work or to the bookstore or wherever? I can't.
[quote]Anyone who lives in or around a city (especially NY) can see how useful this device *COULD BE*....<hr></blockquote>
Yah, but in 20 years it will likely bear little resemblance physically or functionally to what you see now. In other words that will be a totally different (innovation)...but you can make the argument one has to start somewhere...I just think this thing has a very limited niche. Requires good weather (for the operator, not the gizmo itself), distances short enough to walk, a place to store and charge it on every street corner, etc. etc.
[quote]I could make it to and from work on one single charge.<hr></blockquote>
If you envision it as safe enough for this scooter (traffic and pedestrian-wise), isn't also safe to say it's safe enough (or close enough) for a bicycle, roller-blades or feet? Being honest there...not sarcastic. I still don't see the gap that it fills (assuming the person using it isn't averse to walking a mile or two every day).
[quote]This isn't meant to replace the car in suburbia. The sunday drive isn't going to become the sunday "scoot".<hr></blockquote>
Clearly not, and for the record I never suggested it would be.
[quote]So here we have a device that you stand on facing forward, not sideways like a scooter or skateboard, is safe, clean and runs on 10 cents worth of electricity a day. I think its a great invention for city folk like myself who hates getting on the subway just to go to their favorite grocery store. Now, once the price comes down it will be even better.
Oh, and Kamen never started the hype. The book proposal was leaked to Inside.com and from there it turned into a big mess. Kamen didn't out right say what it was because his patents didn't go through yet. He was only protecting himself.<hr></blockquote>
I don't know about all the "info leaks" and such; I just know GMA played it up in a way that was misleading. And while I should expect that in this day and age, that doesn't mean I have to condone it. Finally, I concur that perhaps some of the technologies used therein (the gyro thing, the motor) could be used in the future for something that is actually practical to the average city dweller...but until that day comes...I maintain what we have here is a rich man's toy.
Here in the city people walk all the time everywhere. Hot cold rain snow. Having a nice scooter to take you there in the hot cold rain snow whould be welcome.
<strong>...Super Bass-o-Matic 76...</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>
And here you have stated the reason why the latter is better than the former. You CANNOT knock it or the person on it over. The reporters and executives tried hard and could not do it, including pushing the guy on the scooter hard in the chest while he was moving foreward. Try that on an "oxygen sccoter"....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe and maybe not Noah. I openly admit the balance feature is impressive, but that doesn't make it more practical or easy to use than the others necessarily. We have to define who is using it and why to answer that question.
A couple of people have alluded to the fact that perhaps people with heart problems or people who are older could use this device but not a bicycle or say roller-blades. Maybe (because those two items require balance), but if your Mom or Dad has heart problems (for example), can you not envision some fairly unattractice scenarios even with the scooter balancing for them?
Balanced or not, they're equally exposed to traffic and roadside hazards as items like bicycles or someone on roller-blades, but perhaps even *less* able to avoid a bad situation. Put another way, you may not be able to knock the scooter over , but with a little surprise or brute force you could sure as hell cause someone to lose their grip on the scooter and thus incur serious injury.
What happens when you got 20 people on the same patch of sidewalk using these things - some of them are backing up, others turning or weaving at random, others speeding straight ahead?
It's hard enough for older folks or people who have health conditions to drive in cars where the rules of the road are very straight forward and mostly adhered to.
This thing, being intended for sidewalk use, has a lot of potential to cause chaos and injury because there are basically no rules governing sidewalk usage...you're going to have a mix of bicycles, pedestrians, taxi-cabs (pulling to and from the curbs) and segways...I think the mental picture that comes from such a scenario is not hard to envision, nor are the problems that would come with it.
I dunno. It just doesn't seem well though out in terms of how it would fit into our existing sidewalk and road systems (or with how people use them and will definitely continue to use them)....
If not, then I guess a special bike lock to a sign post or parking meter would suffice.
(Hey inventors out there...start thinking!)
Still, I envision grannie getting knocked off by a scooter hijacker...
I dunno. Excluding the physically challenged this still is more or less a toy for the rich... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>I think people are over blowing the need to charge this thing. 15 miles is a long way. People are still stuck on the car idea. I think too many people are still too stuck on the car.
Here in the city people walk all the time everywhere. Hot cold rain snow. Having a nice scooter to take you there in the hot cold rain snow whould be welcome.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe the possibility of shorter "commute" times would appeal to some (vs. a few more minutes in the bitter cold), but I'll believe these things work on snow or ice-slicked sidewalks / roads when I see it...especially Chicago sidewalks.
Further, when you think about it...if you're on a crowded city sidewalk...how is that this thing will get you to your destination more quickly? You can't very well run people over, and you can't use the street (because you'll be the one to get steam-rolled then)...so in the end you're on your scooter, travelling at the same 1 or 2 mph everyone else is.
Either that, or they're going to have to mandate "scooter / bike" lanes on every sidewalk...good luck with that one....
even if he doesn't make a fortune off the segway, he WILL off the patented "dynamic stabilzation" he's developed.
p.s. steve jobs did say they'd have to build cities with this invention in mind... maybe he meant segway lanes.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
<strong>
Maybe the possibility of shorter "commute" times would appeal to some (vs. a few more minutes in the bitter cold), but I'll believe these things work on snow or ice-slicked sidewalks / roads when I see it...especially Chicago sidewalks.
Further, when you think about it...if you're on a crowded city sidewalk...how is that this thing will get you to your destination more quickly? You can't very well run people over, and you can't use the street (because you'll be the one to get steam-rolled then)...so in the end you're on your scooter, travelling at the same 1 or 2 mph everyone else is.
Either that, or they're going to have to mandate "scooter / bike" lanes on every sidewalk...good luck with that one....
And that would be just fine with Portland, OR as there is a mandate that all new roads and all raods that are upgraded HAVE to have bike lanes. It is already in place here. Where's my ($300) Segway?
As Scott and others might attest, the roads and sidewalks in greater Chicago are less-than-well-maintained. Let alone "forward thinking."
If those among us who are supposedly tech-minded piss and moan like spoiled children than one can only imagine the masses.
Busses and subways don't allow you to go where you want when you want. Rollerblades and skateboards are dangerous. Bikes are dangerous to real pedestrians. Cars are an inefficient means of urban travel.
Those of us who live in places that would benefit from such devices are more likely to see the benefits, and apparently those of you that live in a more car-oriented place look at it as some kind of insult.
It's new and it's even called the SEGWAY (*segue*) for God's sake.
That cartoon had me thinking as a kid how it was plausible (I was young) but now the Segway in no small way makes that even more probable. Anyone else agree, or remember that cartoon?
Either way yourself and a few others keep implying people can't get hurt using this thing. If you can't picture how using such a vehicle could quickly become "dangerous" (assuming they will share the same crowded sidewalks and roads as everyone else)...you're kidding yourself. It may not be dangerous in and of itself, but then, with a little bit of training, none of the other modes are dangerous by themselves either...it's the congestion on the roadways and sidewalks that inevitably causes all the problems.
Think about it: you're out in the open and exposed to all the dangers that everyone else (not in a car or bus) is exposed to. Getting hit or side-swiped by cars or other large vehicles, running into people, buildings or other scooters...at a net speed of 24 mph...a "head on" scooter collision could result in a mess for the sidewalk custodian if you know what I'm saying.
In short, I still haven't heard a case for the particular niche that this thing fills, that can't already be efficiently handled (by the average Joe, not someone who is sick or old or injured) using some other means of transport.
<strong>Chicago might eventually get them too...by 2012...maybe.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't poo poo Chicago. The Mayor is a cyclist. Bikes are part of the city transportaiton plan. Look at the Navy Peir Flyover. The best part may be that what the Mayor wants he gets.
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ?:
<strong>As Scott and others might attest, the roads and sidewalks in greater Chicago are less-than-well-maintained. Let alone "forward thinking."
Don't sell us short. The city does an okay job fixing the sidewalks. Remember there's a lot of sidewalks to maintain.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
i dont know about over ther, but here, w/ everyone walking and driving and biking and whatever, well all this combined can be dangerous. now, throw into the mix yet another mode of transportation. yes, as moogs said, alone it is harmless. but among other things, it can be as dangerous as walking. hell, 2 people walking into eachother can result in some danger i suppose, although not much...
but put a 12 mph scooter up against another scooter or bike in a crowded area, well it can result in some interesting accidents. besides, how efficient can a scooter be when it is limited by the crowd anyway?? i hardly think one of these scooters can get through a crowd any better than walking, or any safer than biking. dont expect everyone to just jump out of the way for u, just cause yer riding a $3k fancy new "innovation." yes, it is cool...but i hardly think its all that more practical than other things out there, or safer.
its simply a way for lazy people to get around easier...
<strong>
but put a 12 mph scooter up against another scooter or bike in a crowded area, well it can result in some interesting accidents.</strong><hr></blockquote>
People shouldn't be riding anything, bike/scooter, in a crowd anyway. Like you say there's no point.
"So, will it revolutionize urban life as the press-hype surrounding its initial disclosure dared predict? Probably not.
First off, it's expensive. On top of that, it weighs 65 lbs, making it a real monster to drag home on an empty battery. But then again, it's not so heavy that it can't easily be grabbed and tossed into the back of someone else's pickup truck.
And anyway, they'll be banned from municipal sidewalks the split second some 18-month-old toddler gets crushed and paralyzed for life. Teenagers will re-jigger them, make them go very fast, and break their necks in Extreme Ginger exhibitions in front of admiring babes, leading to further restrictions by official killjoys. Small children will ride them down stairs, to very bad outcomes. And dogs will chase them relentlessly.
For dogs, surely, Ginger is proof of God's infinite love and generosity. For the rest of us, it's an amusing novelty, possibly a fad, but we don't quite see, as Steve Jobs reportedly did, cities being designed around it."
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People shouldn't be riding anything, bike/scooter, in a crowd anyway. Like you say there's no point.</strong><hr></blockquote>
look at a college campus--people do all that and more all at the same time. its chaos...
but somehow we all manage to get where we're going...eventually... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
ok, well most people are saying that this scooter would be great for big cities--which is basically huge crowds going places...which means people and bikes and scooters all going every which way...chaos, n'est pas?
it was simply a response to grovers stupid lil rant about how every mode of transportation other that this scooter (aka savior or all of humanity) is so dangerous that we would be stupid to choose them over the scooter...