Do get me wrong, I see the need for it and want to see it, but you just don't know with Apple. Just look at the magic mouse, it's terrible.
(i) What does the Magic Mouse for Apple computers have to with a stylus for a tablet? I am failing to see the parallelism; (ii) I think the MM is a fantastic product: it does no more, no less than what it says it will do. Moreover, to my aesthetic sense, it appears to be a mighty elegant design too.
Wasn't there a reference recently to a multi-touch gesture that recognizes "forefinger and thumb pinched together" as text input? In the manner of holding a pen or pencil.
Casually trying that out on a flat surface feels much more natural than trying to "write" with just your forefinger, as in the case of signing on a POS device. If the surface I was doing that on gave me "ink" feedback to see what I was doing, I don't think it would be too bad. Of course, the real problem would be accurate handwriting recognition, but that would be just as true for a stylus.
Actually, playing around with that gesture, I'm suddenly convinced that Apple's tablet won't have a stylus, and will rely on the thumb/finger pinch thing to do stylus-like duties. It really doesn't feel less accurate and you could adjust line width in software (and possibly in mid-stroke with some adjacent gesture). The only downside that I can see is that a stylus tip lets you see the point of contact whereas your fingers obscure it, but I'm not sure how big a problem that really is.
...There is no substitute for "touch" of the fingers on some kind of "keyboard" - can talk all you want about thumbs on Blackberry, et al, but NOTHING can match the speed and accuracy of typing for real on a keyboard by a real typist.
I agree, take a look at this early "tablet" prototype by Apple.
I think apple is going to be 'training' us to use multitouch for a couple years before they make a stylus. hopefully they will release one alongside a full-blown drawing and photoediting app.
Wasn't there a reference recently to a multi-touch gesture that recognizes "forefinger and thumb pinched together" as text input? In the manner of holding a pen or pencil.
You make a strong argument and that certainly feels much more natural than a single finger but I think it ultimately fails as a replacement for extended handwriting or drawing due to the size of the input point compared to a stylus, covering of the display with meaty sausage finger and the friction coefficient from fingers vs. a tiny stylus. I get finger burn on my MBP trackpad as it is, I can?t imagine drawing or writing on a tablet for 8 hours with two fingers.
I can see doctor, artist, engineer, student, etc. that wold use their fingers in a pinch (no pun) but would ultimately prefer a capacitance stylus for certain tasks.
So what's your point? People's signature is different when they sign on a hard screen vs. paper anyway. Hell,it's different even on a sheet of paper depending on whether a person is using any variety of different pen tip technologies, or a pencil
Do get me wrong, I see the need for it and want to see it, but you just don't know with Apple. Just look at the magic mouse, it's terrible.
Opinion only. Sells well, works great for me and a lot of others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
I can tell you it wasn't the same, I've seen videos of people signing the touch and you can just tell it's not the same thing. But I suppose for signing your name it would do.
It's at least as good as the standard resistive touch signature capability even when using a stylus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
That?s what I?d think. I?ve used Autograph for the Mac trackpad and it works okay for a signature but it?s not as natural as using a stylus/pen and it?s simply not effective for any intricate drawing or anything requiring a fine point.
Agreed. Signing your name is not a good test of whether fingers can replace a stylus. Since typing, even on a virtual keyboard is always faster than writing, I have the feeling that Apple will leave the stylus out and just claim it's not necessary. The only people disappointed will be people who need to draw or sketch which is a small enough group that they might get away with it.
I'm still hoping they have some way around the need for a stylus though. For devices like this to replace paper, they really need to solve that last problem of stylus input. Sometimes you just need a sharp pencil. Sometimes you need to be able to press harder to get darker colours etc. Without a stylus solution (even if it's some kind of virtual stylus), it will always be just crude finger-painting at best.
Comments
What is 'Unicorn'?
A single, extending piece to which to act as a stand. His mockup at the link below?
Do get me wrong, I see the need for it and want to see it, but you just don't know with Apple. Just look at the magic mouse, it's terrible.
(i) What does the Magic Mouse for Apple computers have to with a stylus for a tablet? I am failing to see the parallelism; (ii) I think the MM is a fantastic product: it does no more, no less than what it says it will do. Moreover, to my aesthetic sense, it appears to be a mighty elegant design too.
Casually trying that out on a flat surface feels much more natural than trying to "write" with just your forefinger, as in the case of signing on a POS device. If the surface I was doing that on gave me "ink" feedback to see what I was doing, I don't think it would be too bad. Of course, the real problem would be accurate handwriting recognition, but that would be just as true for a stylus.
Actually, playing around with that gesture, I'm suddenly convinced that Apple's tablet won't have a stylus, and will rely on the thumb/finger pinch thing to do stylus-like duties. It really doesn't feel less accurate and you could adjust line width in software (and possibly in mid-stroke with some adjacent gesture). The only downside that I can see is that a stylus tip lets you see the point of contact whereas your fingers obscure it, but I'm not sure how big a problem that really is.
...There is no substitute for "touch" of the fingers on some kind of "keyboard" - can talk all you want about thumbs on Blackberry, et al, but NOTHING can match the speed and accuracy of typing for real on a keyboard by a real typist.
I agree, take a look at this early "tablet" prototype by Apple.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/...le-tablet-1983
Is this kind of concept are we going to see revealed next week?
A sort of larger iPod, stylus and a optional wireless keyboard?
Wasn't there a reference recently to a multi-touch gesture that recognizes "forefinger and thumb pinched together" as text input? In the manner of holding a pen or pencil.
You make a strong argument and that certainly feels much more natural than a single finger but I think it ultimately fails as a replacement for extended handwriting or drawing due to the size of the input point compared to a stylus, covering of the display with meaty sausage finger and the friction coefficient from fingers vs. a tiny stylus. I get finger burn on my MBP trackpad as it is, I can?t imagine drawing or writing on a tablet for 8 hours with two fingers.
I can see doctor, artist, engineer, student, etc. that wold use their fingers in a pinch (no pun) but would ultimately prefer a capacitance stylus for certain tasks.
I agree. It might be a third-party device.
If it's important it won't be third party.
What is 'Unicorn'?
Well you obviously don't know how to use it.
Yeah, that's it. I'm doing it wrong. Look, unless you understand that Apple never was great at making mice you're missing out.
Shame the article didn't follow through on its title.
It tends to happen a lot lately around here.
So what's your point? People's signature is different when they sign on a hard screen vs. paper anyway. Hell,it's different even on a sheet of paper depending on whether a person is using any variety of different pen tip technologies, or a pencil
Quit being defensive fanboy.
If it's important it won't be third party.
Wow. You are a very clever man!
A single, extending piece to which to act as a stand. His mockup at the link below?
That is very clever on the part of the person that came up with it. Thanks, solipsism.
(As an aside, it never ceases to surprise me how 'clever' and 'jerk' are often correlated characteristics!)
As an aside, it never ceases to surprise me how 'clever' and 'jerk' are often correlated characteristics!
You just described Steve Jobs.
You just described Steve Jobs.
Yeah, he probably qualifies too (I say 'probably' because I've never personally interacted with him. Have you?).
Antitrust issues?
Don't Garmin and TomTom use Navteq maps, owned by Nokia?
Is that the same Nokia that's suing Apple (and vise versa) and now is giving free turn by turn GPS with their phones?
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic..._TomTom_Garmin
I expect a stylus to be optional?or even left for third parties?as a compromise.
yeah. why can't wacom come out with a small 4x5 bluetooth pad w/stylus? it's something that's long overdue.
Do get me wrong, I see the need for it and want to see it, but you just don't know with Apple. Just look at the magic mouse, it's terrible.
Opinion only. Sells well, works great for me and a lot of others.
I can tell you it wasn't the same, I've seen videos of people signing the touch and you can just tell it's not the same thing. But I suppose for signing your name it would do.
It's at least as good as the standard resistive touch signature capability even when using a stylus.
That?s what I?d think. I?ve used Autograph for the Mac trackpad and it works okay for a signature but it?s not as natural as using a stylus/pen and it?s simply not effective for any intricate drawing or anything requiring a fine point.
Agreed. Signing your name is not a good test of whether fingers can replace a stylus. Since typing, even on a virtual keyboard is always faster than writing, I have the feeling that Apple will leave the stylus out and just claim it's not necessary. The only people disappointed will be people who need to draw or sketch which is a small enough group that they might get away with it.
I'm still hoping they have some way around the need for a stylus though. For devices like this to replace paper, they really need to solve that last problem of stylus input. Sometimes you just need a sharp pencil. Sometimes you need to be able to press harder to get darker colours etc. Without a stylus solution (even if it's some kind of virtual stylus), it will always be just crude finger-painting at best.
Smartphone GPS has turned into a replay of the browser wars.
Antitrust issues?
Don't Garmin and TomTom use Navteq maps, owned by Nokia?
yikes..
Yeah, he probably qualifies too (I say 'probably' because I've never personally interacted with him. Have you?).
He has that reputation for a reason, because it's true.