I didn't buy a computer to use the same, boring fonts we see in 99% of documents -- not even my first Mac 25 years ago. Seems this quest for "compatibility" has destroyed one of the computer's best features, the ability to create unique, attractive documents. I just print everything to PDF, then I can use whatever fonts I prefer.
Which is why I print my tax forms in Wingdings. Makes things much more exciting. Oh... gotta go, the prison has a set time limit for computer use.
The vast majority of people barely know how to use Word, let alone its plethora of features. Most people could actually benefit from a word processor with key features implemented well, instead of one that crams in a great many, poorly implemented features.
I wholeheartedly agree, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't same suite as presented in the post I replied to. Personally, I open an iWork app about once a year, it seems. I've years I've used TextEdit for pretty much all word processing.
Not exactly true. Pages does not SAVE in word format. It exports to Word Format using third party translators built into the software. Thus it is not 100 percent compatible. I use both Office and Pages and I can verify this. If you are in business the last thing you want to do is have a program that MIGHT be able to display the document the same way it looks in Word without formatting issues. This is why Microsoft Office on the Mac is Still needed. It uses the same file formats as it's windows counterparts. Pages, by nature approaches layouts in a different way altogether, thus in very nature is different from Word. It's documents must be translated and that sometimes leads to formatting errors. On a very simple document there aren't issues but on a complex one there are too many issues. If compatibility is an issue and in the business world it is, then Pages is not a substitute. (neither is Open Office etc...). For the casual home user it may be, but not for the business world.
I stand corrected on your first point. For a very good reason, Pages does not save as Word, it exports as Word. This is a way of answering your second point. Unless you want Pages (or some other alternative word processor) to be a virtual clone of Word, then it must have its own file format to contain its unique features. Even if you call the format the same thing (.doc or whatever), it's not necessarily the same as implemented in all software, even different versions of the same application. Hence my point that compatibility is mainly an illusion.
I don't find compatibility to be even a slight issue, but some may have very specific needs to share documents in ways that require maximum fidelity. Not sure what those would be when PDF wouldn't be the best solution, but someone could explain.
The vast majority of people barely know how to use Word, let alone its plethora of features. Most people could actually benefit from a word processor with key features implemented well, instead of one that crams in a great many, poorly implemented features.
[CENTER]The issue I have with your post is that MS Word's features might be plentiful, but hardly poorly implemented.
There's a good reason it remains the industry standard: Powerful Features + (relative) Ease of Use.
iWork is great for basic/moderate publishing tasks, but it's hardly a match for MS Word for getting serious work done.[/CENTER]
Which is why I print my tax forms in Wingdings. Makes things much more exciting. Oh... gotta go, the prison has a set time limit for computer use.
Very funny... I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I wholeheartedly agree, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't same suite as presented in the post I replied to. Personally, I open an iWork app about once a year, it seems. I've years I've used TextEdit for pretty much all word processing.
I use TextEdit for most of my raw note taking and composition, but when I'm done, it goes into Pages to create my reports, where all the formatting occurs. In fact, I've found that if you use the plain text format in TextEdit, this makes formatting in Pages even easier because it doesn't transfer any unwanted formatting artifacts into your finished document. This is why I was wondering why Mossberg was so concerned about Word document generation on the iPad. Any formatting in any document he sends to his editor at the Times is going to be changed to what they need for publication, so why use a full-featured word processor for this writing at all?
Nobody will read for 10 hours straight? Tell that to all the Harry Potter fans that marathon-read each book as it was published.
And 10 hours will quickly become 5 after a year or two, if my experience with iPods is anything close to what will happen with the iPad.
So true....... But look on the bright side, if you really love your iAnythingWithBattery, you'll quickly find out how much when you get to live without it for a couple of weeks to get the batteries replaced.
Does anyone know if the iPad will be able to connect to WiFi or bluetooth enabled printers? I wonder if there will something comparable to Finder for managing the files you create using iWork (and, presumably, third party applications) and retrieving files from a network.
They've obviously shown they're interested in allowing users to create content on the device and I can see huge potential here. In the presentation, Phil specifically mentioned connecting the iPad to a projector and giving a Keynote presentation so they're implying it has value as a business device as well. Given the conspicuous absence (or at least no mention of) the above features and multitasking, I'm trying to understand where they're going with this.
This is why I was wondering why Mossberg was so concerned about Word document generation on the iPad. Any formatting in any document he sends to his editor at the Times is going to be changed to what they need for publication, so why use a full-featured word processor for this writing at all?
You have to remember that when Mossberg started in journalism he was using a cave wall in France.
Seriously though, I've been using Stickies for years but I'm trying to convert to Notes in Mail since they sync to the iPhone. That change is tough for me so I can imagine that Mossberg is a bit stuck in his ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroturf1
So true....... But look on the bright side, if you really love your iAnythingWithBattery, you'll quickly find out how much when you get to live without it for a couple of weeks to get the batteries replaced.
A bit hyperbolic. The only experience I've seen anybody with a bad Apple battery is an on-the-spot replacement or a next-day shipment in the mail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep123
Does anyone know if the iPad will be able to connect to WiFi or bluetooth enabled printers? I wonder if there will something comparable to Finder for managing the files you create using iWork (and, presumably, third party applications) and retrieving files from a network.
There is word of connecting to printers and mounting as a networked and locally attached share.
As an accountant and I am sure for millions of other business people- no Excel app - 100%, NO deal.
Of all of MS office components I would think that Excel would be the easiest to port to the iPad well. The question is will MS do it when Apple is obviously trying to drive down the cost of software. In a nut shell it looks like Apple is going after MS cash cows.
On another note why do you think Excel is so mandatory? Numbers does lag feature wise, that everybody knows, but what is it missing as far as use by professional accountants? Maybe it is about time for people to start pushing Apple for more features in Numbers.
Didn't Steve state that the 10-hour battery life was with Wi-Fi on? If so, then that's pretty good. I fully expected the iPod add to run for considerably longer.
From apples site:
Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or listening to music
I hope not, they hardly save over paper yet come with a lot more limitations than paper. It could kill the "just getting started" ebook market.
I don't like storing books. I've moved too many times and books/paper are the most annoying things to move. I'm all for a good implementation of ebooks, I don't know if the iPad will fit that or not. I'll probably get one for other reasons, so I'll get to try it out once they expand past US only. I'm sure there are others that don't like the combined weight and space consumed by a library of books.
Maybe you are having problems that result in excessive emotional responses today
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper
Obviously Steve will have to approve the free OpenOffice being on the App Store before they can write a version.
Frist Apple doesn't pre approve anything. Second Steve himself seldom gets involved in app approvals.
Quote:
And Steve may not approve, as it will be in competition to his paid apps, iWork.
Apple hasn't prevented any other app from appearing on app store that competes, some very low cost apps.
Quote:
Thus the question remains:
Will Steve allow a free version of OpenOffice to appear on the App Store?
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't. The implementation would have to meet the agreed to restrictions for iPhone apps. The bigger issue might be the use of Java and the problems there.
I have OpenOffice on my Mac right now, along with iWork. Frankly it appears to me that OpenOffice is extremely bloated for the iPad platform. The reality is it is ancient tech and one would be far better off looking at new tech for iPad. What you should really be pining for is new innovative software that integrates well with the new hardware and software of the platform.
Quote:
Will Steve allow ANY apps on the App Store that are in competition with his products?
Many have already replied to this but I have to say your ignorance here is over whelming.
A bit hyperbolic. The only experience I've seen anybody with a bad Apple battery is an on-the-spot replacement or a next-day shipment in the mail.
I don't think I am overstating the issue. You don't have to send something in because the battery is dead (though this happened to me after a year and a couple of months with my iPhone). If I can't get through a flight from Seattle to LA listening to music, I am sending the iPod in for battery replacement. You could buy battery packs to compensate for lack of capacity, but then you loose some of the appeal of your slickly designed iSomething.....
excuse me? why do you feel the need to broadcast the fact you sent a private message? how is this of any benefit to forum readers? at all.
It doesn't benefit the forum at large. The reality is that many posts don't. What this does do is set on notice those that might want to chech their E-Mail.
Quote:
Anyway, I am really excited for the iPad, the more I hear the more I like it
It is neat but Apple us withholding to much info and is not widely deploying the SDK. It is almost like they are covering up something they are ashamed of.
As it is the IPad is fairly close to what I was expecting after resigning my self to no 7" class device. The worst feature of the device is the 4:3 ratio of the screen and the stingy Flash allotment. After most of the TV industry moved to wide screen I'm not sure what caused the screen regression.
Take away those qwibbles and you have a very interesting platform.
... Will you allow a version of the free Open Office to appear on the App Store?
This is paranoid nonsense.
In the first place, you have no evidence that anyone has written such a thing, and therefore no evidence that it would be refused. Secondly, part of the last OS revision was done specifically to support productivity apps like Open Office and shortly after it's release we started to see a lot more apps of that type. This latest revision (when we get it), extends that functionality even more.
Third, Open Office is a gigantic *integrated* Office suite designed the way Office suites were designed in the very early 90's. It won't ever exist for iPhone OS since only one app is allowed on the screen at any one time.
Open Office hardly works on a desktop computer let alone a mobile. It would have to be redesigned from the ground up along the lines of a modern GUI instead of just being a clone of a ten year old Microsoft product.
That's a lot of work and probably out of the scope (and beyond the capabilities frankly), of the team developing it.
I'm sure there will be a new project sometime that attempts to copy the iWork interface as a mobile Office solution. it may even be workable about ten years hence when the rest of us have already moved on to whatever's next.
This surprises anyone? Pages users already know that it saves as Word documents. It always has.
Come on, Doc. You know very well that people still look in disbelief when shown these easy things. When I travel with my MBP and have VMware Fusion up and running **cough** Windoze, people still tell me that it cannot be done. Oh, the lies that marketing mavens tell...
You have to remember that when Mossberg started in journalism he was using a cave wall in France.
Seriously though, I've been using Stickies for years but I'm trying to convert to Notes in Mail since they sync to the iPhone. That change is tough for me so I can imagine that Mossberg is a bit stuck in his ways.
Now, now. You must admit, for an Old Guy?, Mossberg is pretty hip. Gives the rest of us hope. I imagine the NY Times is pretty unhip and stuck in their ways, by comparison.
Now, now. You must admit, for an Old Guy?, Mossberg is pretty hip. Gives the rest of us hope. I imagine the NY Times is pretty unhip and stuck in their ways, by comparison.
Yeah, just h trying to put a little humour into the thread.
Comments
I didn't buy a computer to use the same, boring fonts we see in 99% of documents -- not even my first Mac 25 years ago. Seems this quest for "compatibility" has destroyed one of the computer's best features, the ability to create unique, attractive documents. I just print everything to PDF, then I can use whatever fonts I prefer.
Which is why I print my tax forms in Wingdings. Makes things much more exciting. Oh... gotta go, the prison has a set time limit for computer use.
The vast majority of people barely know how to use Word, let alone its plethora of features. Most people could actually benefit from a word processor with key features implemented well, instead of one that crams in a great many, poorly implemented features.
I wholeheartedly agree, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't same suite as presented in the post I replied to. Personally, I open an iWork app about once a year, it seems. I've years I've used TextEdit for pretty much all word processing.
Not exactly true. Pages does not SAVE in word format. It exports to Word Format using third party translators built into the software. Thus it is not 100 percent compatible. I use both Office and Pages and I can verify this. If you are in business the last thing you want to do is have a program that MIGHT be able to display the document the same way it looks in Word without formatting issues. This is why Microsoft Office on the Mac is Still needed. It uses the same file formats as it's windows counterparts. Pages, by nature approaches layouts in a different way altogether, thus in very nature is different from Word. It's documents must be translated and that sometimes leads to formatting errors. On a very simple document there aren't issues but on a complex one there are too many issues. If compatibility is an issue and in the business world it is, then Pages is not a substitute. (neither is Open Office etc...). For the casual home user it may be, but not for the business world.
I stand corrected on your first point. For a very good reason, Pages does not save as Word, it exports as Word. This is a way of answering your second point. Unless you want Pages (or some other alternative word processor) to be a virtual clone of Word, then it must have its own file format to contain its unique features. Even if you call the format the same thing (.doc or whatever), it's not necessarily the same as implemented in all software, even different versions of the same application. Hence my point that compatibility is mainly an illusion.
I don't find compatibility to be even a slight issue, but some may have very specific needs to share documents in ways that require maximum fidelity. Not sure what those would be when PDF wouldn't be the best solution, but someone could explain.
The vast majority of people barely know how to use Word, let alone its plethora of features. Most people could actually benefit from a word processor with key features implemented well, instead of one that crams in a great many, poorly implemented features.
[CENTER]The issue I have with your post is that MS Word's features might be plentiful, but hardly poorly implemented.
There's a good reason it remains the industry standard: Powerful Features + (relative) Ease of Use.
iWork is great for basic/moderate publishing tasks, but it's hardly a match for MS Word for getting serious work done.[/CENTER]
Which is why I print my tax forms in Wingdings. Makes things much more exciting. Oh... gotta go, the prison has a set time limit for computer use.
Very funny... I think.
I wholeheartedly agree, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't same suite as presented in the post I replied to. Personally, I open an iWork app about once a year, it seems. I've years I've used TextEdit for pretty much all word processing.
I use TextEdit for most of my raw note taking and composition, but when I'm done, it goes into Pages to create my reports, where all the formatting occurs. In fact, I've found that if you use the plain text format in TextEdit, this makes formatting in Pages even easier because it doesn't transfer any unwanted formatting artifacts into your finished document. This is why I was wondering why Mossberg was so concerned about Word document generation on the iPad. Any formatting in any document he sends to his editor at the Times is going to be changed to what they need for publication, so why use a full-featured word processor for this writing at all?
Nobody will read for 10 hours straight? Tell that to all the Harry Potter fans that marathon-read each book as it was published.
And 10 hours will quickly become 5 after a year or two, if my experience with iPods is anything close to what will happen with the iPad.
So true....... But look on the bright side, if you really love your iAnythingWithBattery, you'll quickly find out how much when you get to live without it for a couple of weeks to get the batteries replaced.
They've obviously shown they're interested in allowing users to create content on the device and I can see huge potential here. In the presentation, Phil specifically mentioned connecting the iPad to a projector and giving a Keynote presentation so they're implying it has value as a business device as well. Given the conspicuous absence (or at least no mention of) the above features and multitasking, I'm trying to understand where they're going with this.
This is why I was wondering why Mossberg was so concerned about Word document generation on the iPad. Any formatting in any document he sends to his editor at the Times is going to be changed to what they need for publication, so why use a full-featured word processor for this writing at all?
You have to remember that when Mossberg started in journalism he was using a cave wall in France.
Seriously though, I've been using Stickies for years but I'm trying to convert to Notes in Mail since they sync to the iPhone. That change is tough for me so I can imagine that Mossberg is a bit stuck in his ways.
So true....... But look on the bright side, if you really love your iAnythingWithBattery, you'll quickly find out how much when you get to live without it for a couple of weeks to get the batteries replaced.
A bit hyperbolic. The only experience I've seen anybody with a bad Apple battery is an on-the-spot replacement or a next-day shipment in the mail.
Does anyone know if the iPad will be able to connect to WiFi or bluetooth enabled printers? I wonder if there will something comparable to Finder for managing the files you create using iWork (and, presumably, third party applications) and retrieving files from a network.
There is word of connecting to printers and mounting as a networked and locally attached share.
As an accountant and I am sure for millions of other business people- no Excel app - 100%, NO deal.
Of all of MS office components I would think that Excel would be the easiest to port to the iPad well. The question is will MS do it when Apple is obviously trying to drive down the cost of software. In a nut shell it looks like Apple is going after MS cash cows.
On another note why do you think Excel is so mandatory? Numbers does lag feature wise, that everybody knows, but what is it missing as far as use by professional accountants? Maybe it is about time for people to start pushing Apple for more features in Numbers.
Dave
Didn't Steve state that the 10-hour battery life was with Wi-Fi on? If so, then that's pretty good. I fully expected the iPod add to run for considerably longer.
From apples site:
Up to 10 hours of surfing the web on Wi-Fi, watching video, or listening to music
Jobs wasn't implying that Apple's eBooks would be $10, he was implying that the Kindle eBooks were going to go up in price.
I hope not, they hardly save over paper yet come with a lot more limitations than paper. It could kill the "just getting started" ebook market.
I hope not, they hardly save over paper yet come with a lot more limitations than paper. It could kill the "just getting started" ebook market.
I don't like storing books. I've moved too many times and books/paper are the most annoying things to move. I'm all for a good implementation of ebooks, I don't know if the iPad will fit that or not. I'll probably get one for other reasons, so I'll get to try it out once they expand past US only. I'm sure there are others that don't like the combined weight and space consumed by a library of books.
Obviously Steve will have to approve the free OpenOffice being on the App Store before they can write a version.
Frist Apple doesn't pre approve anything. Second Steve himself seldom gets involved in app approvals.
And Steve may not approve, as it will be in competition to his paid apps, iWork.
Apple hasn't prevented any other app from appearing on app store that competes, some very low cost apps.
Thus the question remains:
Will Steve allow a free version of OpenOffice to appear on the App Store?
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't. The implementation would have to meet the agreed to restrictions for iPhone apps. The bigger issue might be the use of Java and the problems there.
I have OpenOffice on my Mac right now, along with iWork. Frankly it appears to me that OpenOffice is extremely bloated for the iPad platform. The reality is it is ancient tech and one would be far better off looking at new tech for iPad. What you should really be pining for is new innovative software that integrates well with the new hardware and software of the platform.
Will Steve allow ANY apps on the App Store that are in competition with his products?
Many have already replied to this but I have to say your ignorance here is over whelming.
Dave
A bit hyperbolic. The only experience I've seen anybody with a bad Apple battery is an on-the-spot replacement or a next-day shipment in the mail.
I don't think I am overstating the issue. You don't have to send something in because the battery is dead (though this happened to me after a year and a couple of months with my iPhone). If I can't get through a flight from Seattle to LA listening to music, I am sending the iPod in for battery replacement. You could buy battery packs to compensate for lack of capacity, but then you loose some of the appeal of your slickly designed iSomething.....
excuse me? why do you feel the need to broadcast the fact you sent a private message? how is this of any benefit to forum readers? at all.
It doesn't benefit the forum at large. The reality is that many posts don't. What this does do is set on notice those that might want to chech their E-Mail.
Anyway, I am really excited for the iPad, the more I hear the more I like it
It is neat but Apple us withholding to much info and is not widely deploying the SDK. It is almost like they are covering up something they are ashamed of.
As it is the IPad is fairly close to what I was expecting after resigning my self to no 7" class device. The worst feature of the device is the 4:3 ratio of the screen and the stingy Flash allotment. After most of the TV industry moved to wide screen I'm not sure what caused the screen regression.
Take away those qwibbles and you have a very interesting platform.
Dave
... Will you allow a version of the free Open Office to appear on the App Store?
This is paranoid nonsense.
In the first place, you have no evidence that anyone has written such a thing, and therefore no evidence that it would be refused. Secondly, part of the last OS revision was done specifically to support productivity apps like Open Office and shortly after it's release we started to see a lot more apps of that type. This latest revision (when we get it), extends that functionality even more.
Third, Open Office is a gigantic *integrated* Office suite designed the way Office suites were designed in the very early 90's. It won't ever exist for iPhone OS since only one app is allowed on the screen at any one time.
Open Office hardly works on a desktop computer let alone a mobile. It would have to be redesigned from the ground up along the lines of a modern GUI instead of just being a clone of a ten year old Microsoft product.
That's a lot of work and probably out of the scope (and beyond the capabilities frankly), of the team developing it.
I'm sure there will be a new project sometime that attempts to copy the iWork interface as a mobile Office solution. it may even be workable about ten years hence when the rest of us have already moved on to whatever's next.
This surprises anyone? Pages users already know that it saves as Word documents. It always has.
Come on, Doc. You know very well that people still look in disbelief when shown these easy things. When I travel with my MBP and have VMware Fusion up and running **cough** Windoze, people still tell me that it cannot be done. Oh, the lies that marketing mavens tell...
You have to remember that when Mossberg started in journalism he was using a cave wall in France.
Seriously though, I've been using Stickies for years but I'm trying to convert to Notes in Mail since they sync to the iPhone. That change is tough for me so I can imagine that Mossberg is a bit stuck in his ways.
Now, now. You must admit, for an Old Guy?, Mossberg is pretty hip. Gives the rest of us hope. I imagine the NY Times is pretty unhip and stuck in their ways, by comparison.
Now, now. You must admit, for an Old Guy?, Mossberg is pretty hip. Gives the rest of us hope. I imagine the NY Times is pretty unhip and stuck in their ways, by comparison.
Yeah, just h trying to put a little humour into the thread.
Yeah, just h trying to put a little humour into the thread.
Keep trying. So much of this discussion is depressing.