There is a lot to argue for the Kindle being a worthy player in the eBook market, which I've stated in detaill all day long, but the comparing of a 6" display to a 10" display device as proof that it's crap as a reader has got to be the worst arguments ever. I think a small part of his grey matter shrivels up and a dies each time he gets banned and is forced to return with a new name. I think HeWhoMustNotBeNamed must be using his screen names as Horcruxs. With each disabled account he gets weaker and his posts more feeble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
Ah, now it's the weight? That "gizmo" which was the first e ink screen at this size weighs 120g less than the ipad. Your point being?
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
They do get progressively worse those arguments don't they, but I mean if you are most of the time trying to turn day into night you are bound to sound a bit ludicrous....
Oh here we go again, the attack by the "those in denial" Cupertino brigade. They can't discuss something, so they attack and attack. They thought this would change the world , this new supersized iPod, as introduced by their lord and master..
Where's the stock at today fellas? The new keeps getting worse and worse. MSFT posted better than projected. Really upsets you painfully so, I know.
Yeah with a screen that can't fit more than 6 words per line on any legible font.
edit: My bad seven words.
The number of words on a page make no difference in my experience. I actually find I read much faster with less words on small screens. This comes from my experience of reading electronic books from the year 2000 on my Ipaq 3630 (and multiple variants in between) to now on my iPhone with Stanza and Kindle.
Using a mocking rename of the product doesn't help your case and tells me more that you are being immature than anything else. Not only that, It is an appeal to ridicule logical fallacy.
An eight of an inch isn't a difference that seems so intolerable as you portray it to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroturf1
The number of words on a page make no difference in my experience. I actually find I read much faster with less words on small screens. This comes from my experience of reading electronic books from the year 2000 on my Ipaq 3630 (and multiple variants in between) to now on my iPhone with Stanza and Kindle.
There is some precedence for narrower columns. It provdes an easier "return" point, and is part of the reason why newspaper columns are narrow.
What differences are there besides the size of text and number of words on a typical page? Electronic books have adjustable test size so wouldn't that make it a moot point?
Don't the people here have kids? Ever share a picture book with a little one?
One thing the present renditions of Kindle or any other E-ink reader cannot do is a two-page spread-- essential when reading picture books, art books or anything with large illustrations.
So can you imagine what happens when you can zoom in on a portion of the illustration that happens to capture your child's fancy? Yeah... That is how little kids read and now (well, in sixty days) they can do it even better.
And that's just kids. One of the things that limits the publication of color books is that they cost more to print, making them pricier for the consumer and thus don't sell as well. If you're publishing electronically, you can use as many colors as you like and although I guess the file sizes will be larger, it's not going to affect pricing as much.
One thing Amazon offers that Apple doesn't is the availability of ebooks to non-American markets although the titles are limited and more expensive (the claim is that this is due to contracting and wireless costs even though I'm downloading off my internet connection). I hope Apple makes iBooks available in all of its iTunes markets soon.
So back to the original comment, do hardcovers differ from paperbacks? Some of us enjoy the heft of a real book with illustrations, a beautiful dust jacket and real covers that fits better in your hands. I'm guessing the difference between an iPad and Kindle is somewhat similiar.
Yeah with a screen that can't fit more than 6 words per line on any legible font.
edit: My bad seven words.
The original Kindle isn't really a fair comparison. The Kindle 2 and Kindle DX are much better. But at the end of the day Kindles and iPad aren't necessarily targeting the same market. It's just that there's some overlap.
Sorry, I beg to differ. A Kindle cost half as much and has approx 1/3 the weight (you can hold it in one hand). You sound like the Zune brigade when it was released with an added radio and expected to take on the iPod.
The Kindle is here to stay.
The iPad is more akin to the Kindle DX which is 80% of the weight of an iPad. The DX costs $489.
Most readers don't sit and read for hours and hours, most read a chapter or two and the fall asleep or have to go and do something else. For this, the LCD is fine vs. eInk. The kindle is poor with illustrations, cannot do color or animated exhibits for modern text books. Kindle will maintain its diehards but will fade away as a hardware device. Especially as amazon don't care about the device as much as the store and selling books. The battle is between iBooks and Kindle store. The hardware battle is already over.
Kindle has always been a small niche product and will only decline in relevance from here. As for the millions, they may have sold a million or 2 but remember, Bezos said millions of people not millions of units. Any good estimation would apply a 'family' multiplier - probably 1.5-2.5x to count multiple users of one device.
Honest question because I not sure of the answer. Is the iWorks available on the Tablet truly a full version? I know its multitouch but I most what I read led me to believe it was not as robust as the full version of iWorks the price of only 9.99 per App would also seem to confirm that.
The hardware no doubt is a step foward the problem is the OS is lacking. This Tablet could have easily used a version of Snow Leopard instead of the iPhone OS. Which at least in my opinion would have made it far more functional.
Then again I am not an Apple only users. I am use to Tablets being fully functioning systems which for some reason some Apple only users tend to disagree a Tablet should be running a full OS.
You are entirely wrong in your perception of who this is for. It is designed primarily for the non or casual Mac user. Steve gave up caring what Macophiles think. It is you that is out of whack with the device. It won't be Apple fans forgiving the iPad its omissions, but the millions of buyers who won't even notice. A fail for you is not even probably a fail for the market. Remember this is aimed largely at users who still do their document management by keeping them all on the desktop (which is a lot of people). We power users will catch up tothe logic eventually
Can you imagine working in a document or spreadsheet wanting to read an email or website and then have to go out then back in- and so on and so on?? Madness!
Of course we can. HOME-Mail-read-HOME-Pages/Numbers. Compare to Mac Dock-Mail-read-Dock-Pages/numbers. Not wildly different. A little more delay on the pad but offset if spaces need to change or a different window selected in an App.
On the pad u r not quitting anything just leaving something in an instantly saved state. Your naysaying is getting increasingly pathetic.
The iPad makes the kindle look very "last-century".
I know some people are happy with e-ink. But as someone who bought and has used the Sony reader quite a bit, e-ink really is a drag.
1) It is slow. Boy is it slow. Some documents take two seconds for a page turn. The slowness means that navigating documents is incredibly tiresome. One second per page is okay if you are reading a novel, but leafing through a textbook to find the right page is just excruciating. It's a deal-killer for anything other than serial reading.
2) E-ink isn't black on white. It's dark grey on light grey. It's readable, but lower contrast than regular books.
3) It works in sunlight, but not really bright sunlight. In very strong daylight, the page turns partially fail - and you get a faded image (like a photocopy that's run out of toner). In Corsica, I had to close the cover before turning the page to make it work.
4) Forget photographs. Forget color
5) Forget about a backlight too. It's true that LCD sucks in sunlight. But e-ink sucks in a dark room.
If my sole intention was to buy a device for reading, I think the iPad would be a better bet than the KindleDX.
Oh here we go again, the attack by the "those in denial" Cupertino brigade. They can't discuss something, so they attack and attack. They thought this would change the world , this new supersized iPod, as introduced by their lord and master..
Where's the stock at today fellas? The new keeps getting worse and worse. MSFT posted better than projected. Really upsets you painfully so, I know.
Funny, it looks like you are the one in denial and constantly on the attack. I suppose it depends where you stand. Your understanding of the stock market is as poor as your insight into what makes a successful product. (Very)
2) E-ink isn't black on white. It's dark grey on light grey. It's readable, but lower contrast than regular books.
I know several people with Kindles that swear by its readability but I personally don't get it. I'm in from of a computer screen reading text all day every day without complaints of eye strain.
I know several people with Kindles that swear by its readability but I personally don't get it. I'm in from of a computer screen reading text all day every day without complaints of eye strain.
For starters it could be age. I am not old and I don't own a Kindle. But I have to say that having used one, it's a lot easier to read on than my iMac. The brightness of LCDs can be overwhelming sometimes. Like the other poster, I agree that the Kindle isn't great for any doc with lots of graphics. But again that's not what it's for. Also the killer app for the Kindle is Amazon's Whispernet. Can Apple get you your New York Times if you're in Mumbai and there's nobody selling microsims and wifi proves unreliable? The iPad, however, will steal away lots of casual Kindle users. The ones who read a chapter a night and don't travel much. For the rest, a light e-ink device will beat out a LCD. Heck, I'd like to buy both! I love to read. Use the Kindle to read and the iPad for all other casual computing and media consumption. I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Though, I am hoping for enough Kindle owners to switch that there'll be a few cheap Kindles on eBay. So far no luck after the iPad announcement.
Everybody is really arguing over nothing. Crescent wrenches are great for certain tasks, but you can strip an over torqued nut. At that point, you grab the one thing and does it well - exact size wrench.
Not exactly the best analogy.... Most usually aren't when it comes to computers / technology and other product segments but here's where the analogy fails..
- A crescent wrench can 'often' be used in a variety of nut driving tasks provided conditions are suited to the additional size that goes along with the added versatility.
- A crescent wrench doesn't DO anything over and above what a standard off the shelf set nut driver does.
For instance it doesn't strip wire or solder pipe or drive nails (not woth a damn at that task... don't ask... I JUST KNOW!)
Kindle vs. iPad
Is more like
Wrench vs. The most Epic-Multi-Tool-From-Hell-With- Ever-Morphing-Never-Stopping-New-Features-Appearing-Out-of-Thin-Air.
Comments
Ah, now it's the weight? That "gizmo" which was the first e ink screen at this size weighs 120g less than the ipad. Your point being?
They do get progressively worse those arguments don't they, but I mean if you are most of the time trying to turn day into night you are bound to sound a bit ludicrous....
Oh here we go again, the attack by the "those in denial" Cupertino brigade. They can't discuss something, so they attack and attack. They thought this would change the world , this new supersized iPod, as introduced by their lord and master..
Where's the stock at today fellas? The new keeps getting worse and worse. MSFT posted better than projected. Really upsets you painfully so, I know.
Yeah with a screen that can't fit more than 6 words per line on any legible font.
edit: My bad seven words.
The number of words on a page make no difference in my experience. I actually find I read much faster with less words on small screens. This comes from my experience of reading electronic books from the year 2000 on my Ipaq 3630 (and multiple variants in between) to now on my iPhone with Stanza and Kindle.
Millions? So really, how much is "millions"? Are we ever going to see some actual numbers for this one-trick pony?
These Kindles are about to got the way of the Dodo come April.
I don't know a single person who has a kindle. Who has bought these "millions"?
The iTampon is MUCH thicker.
Using a mocking rename of the product doesn't help your case and tells me more that you are being immature than anything else. Not only that, It is an appeal to ridicule logical fallacy.
An eight of an inch isn't a difference that seems so intolerable as you portray it to be.
The number of words on a page make no difference in my experience. I actually find I read much faster with less words on small screens. This comes from my experience of reading electronic books from the year 2000 on my Ipaq 3630 (and multiple variants in between) to now on my iPhone with Stanza and Kindle.
There is some precedence for narrower columns. It provdes an easier "return" point, and is part of the reason why newspaper columns are narrow.
There is some precedence for narrower columns. It provdes an easier "return" point, and is part of the reason why newspaper columns are narrow.
Now that is interesting... It was just something I realized over the years....
What differences are there besides the size of text and number of words on a typical page? Electronic books have adjustable test size so wouldn't that make it a moot point?
Don't the people here have kids? Ever share a picture book with a little one?
One thing the present renditions of Kindle or any other E-ink reader cannot do is a two-page spread-- essential when reading picture books, art books or anything with large illustrations.
So can you imagine what happens when you can zoom in on a portion of the illustration that happens to capture your child's fancy? Yeah... That is how little kids read and now (well, in sixty days) they can do it even better.
And that's just kids. One of the things that limits the publication of color books is that they cost more to print, making them pricier for the consumer and thus don't sell as well. If you're publishing electronically, you can use as many colors as you like and although I guess the file sizes will be larger, it's not going to affect pricing as much.
One thing Amazon offers that Apple doesn't is the availability of ebooks to non-American markets although the titles are limited and more expensive (the claim is that this is due to contracting and wireless costs even though I'm downloading off my internet connection). I hope Apple makes iBooks available in all of its iTunes markets soon.
So back to the original comment, do hardcovers differ from paperbacks? Some of us enjoy the heft of a real book with illustrations, a beautiful dust jacket and real covers that fits better in your hands. I'm guessing the difference between an iPad and Kindle is somewhat similiar.
"But Marge, with ten thousand dollars, we'd be millionaires!"
Yeah with a screen that can't fit more than 6 words per line on any legible font.
edit: My bad seven words.
The original Kindle isn't really a fair comparison. The Kindle 2 and Kindle DX are much better. But at the end of the day Kindles and iPad aren't necessarily targeting the same market. It's just that there's some overlap.
Does the kindle multi task?
Hasn't multi touch whining reached everest heights in these forums already?
Right up there with the Flash whining.
Sorry, I beg to differ. A Kindle cost half as much and has approx 1/3 the weight (you can hold it in one hand). You sound like the Zune brigade when it was released with an added radio and expected to take on the iPod.
The Kindle is here to stay.
The iPad is more akin to the Kindle DX which is 80% of the weight of an iPad. The DX costs $489.
Most readers don't sit and read for hours and hours, most read a chapter or two and the fall asleep or have to go and do something else. For this, the LCD is fine vs. eInk. The kindle is poor with illustrations, cannot do color or animated exhibits for modern text books. Kindle will maintain its diehards but will fade away as a hardware device. Especially as amazon don't care about the device as much as the store and selling books. The battle is between iBooks and Kindle store. The hardware battle is already over.
Kindle has always been a small niche product and will only decline in relevance from here. As for the millions, they may have sold a million or 2 but remember, Bezos said millions of people not millions of units. Any good estimation would apply a 'family' multiplier - probably 1.5-2.5x to count multiple users of one device.
Honest question because I not sure of the answer. Is the iWorks available on the Tablet truly a full version? I know its multitouch but I most what I read led me to believe it was not as robust as the full version of iWorks the price of only 9.99 per App would also seem to confirm that.
The hardware no doubt is a step foward the problem is the OS is lacking. This Tablet could have easily used a version of Snow Leopard instead of the iPhone OS. Which at least in my opinion would have made it far more functional.
Then again I am not an Apple only users. I am use to Tablets being fully functioning systems which for some reason some Apple only users tend to disagree a Tablet should be running a full OS.
You are entirely wrong in your perception of who this is for. It is designed primarily for the non or casual Mac user. Steve gave up caring what Macophiles think. It is you that is out of whack with the device. It won't be Apple fans forgiving the iPad its omissions, but the millions of buyers who won't even notice. A fail for you is not even probably a fail for the market. Remember this is aimed largely at users who still do their document management by keeping them all on the desktop (which is a lot of people). We power users will catch up tothe logic eventually
Can you imagine working in a document or spreadsheet wanting to read an email or website and then have to go out then back in- and so on and so on?? Madness!
Of course we can. HOME-Mail-read-HOME-Pages/Numbers. Compare to Mac Dock-Mail-read-Dock-Pages/numbers. Not wildly different. A little more delay on the pad but offset if spaces need to change or a different window selected in an App.
On the pad u r not quitting anything just leaving something in an instantly saved state. Your naysaying is getting increasingly pathetic.
I know some people are happy with e-ink. But as someone who bought and has used the Sony reader quite a bit, e-ink really is a drag.
1) It is slow. Boy is it slow. Some documents take two seconds for a page turn. The slowness means that navigating documents is incredibly tiresome. One second per page is okay if you are reading a novel, but leafing through a textbook to find the right page is just excruciating. It's a deal-killer for anything other than serial reading.
2) E-ink isn't black on white. It's dark grey on light grey. It's readable, but lower contrast than regular books.
3) It works in sunlight, but not really bright sunlight. In very strong daylight, the page turns partially fail - and you get a faded image (like a photocopy that's run out of toner). In Corsica, I had to close the cover before turning the page to make it work.
4) Forget photographs. Forget color
5) Forget about a backlight too. It's true that LCD sucks in sunlight. But e-ink sucks in a dark room.
If my sole intention was to buy a device for reading, I think the iPad would be a better bet than the KindleDX.
C.
Oh here we go again, the attack by the "those in denial" Cupertino brigade. They can't discuss something, so they attack and attack. They thought this would change the world , this new supersized iPod, as introduced by their lord and master..
Where's the stock at today fellas? The new keeps getting worse and worse. MSFT posted better than projected. Really upsets you painfully so, I know.
Funny, it looks like you are the one in denial and constantly on the attack. I suppose it depends where you stand. Your understanding of the stock market is as poor as your insight into what makes a successful product. (Very)
The iPad makes the kindle look very "last-century".
That looks like they took that directly from Delicious Library...
2) E-ink isn't black on white. It's dark grey on light grey. It's readable, but lower contrast than regular books.
I know several people with Kindles that swear by its readability but I personally don't get it. I'm in from of a computer screen reading text all day every day without complaints of eye strain.
The Kindle screen is far better for ereading compared to the iPad.
How do you know which has a better reading experience? Have you had some time with the iPad? (Ohhh, how I wish it had been called the iSlate.)
For me, like Apple has done with past products, the iPad makes the Kindle look like something from 1986.
I know several people with Kindles that swear by its readability but I personally don't get it. I'm in from of a computer screen reading text all day every day without complaints of eye strain.
For starters it could be age. I am not old and I don't own a Kindle. But I have to say that having used one, it's a lot easier to read on than my iMac. The brightness of LCDs can be overwhelming sometimes. Like the other poster, I agree that the Kindle isn't great for any doc with lots of graphics. But again that's not what it's for. Also the killer app for the Kindle is Amazon's Whispernet. Can Apple get you your New York Times if you're in Mumbai and there's nobody selling microsims and wifi proves unreliable? The iPad, however, will steal away lots of casual Kindle users. The ones who read a chapter a night and don't travel much. For the rest, a light e-ink device will beat out a LCD. Heck, I'd like to buy both! I love to read. Use the Kindle to read and the iPad for all other casual computing and media consumption. I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Though, I am hoping for enough Kindle owners to switch that there'll be a few cheap Kindles on eBay. So far no luck after the iPad announcement.
Everybody is really arguing over nothing. Crescent wrenches are great for certain tasks, but you can strip an over torqued nut. At that point, you grab the one thing and does it well - exact size wrench.
Not exactly the best analogy.... Most usually aren't when it comes to computers / technology and other product segments but here's where the analogy fails..
- A crescent wrench can 'often' be used in a variety of nut driving tasks provided conditions are suited to the additional size that goes along with the added versatility.
- A crescent wrench doesn't DO anything over and above what a standard off the shelf set nut driver does.
For instance it doesn't strip wire or solder pipe or drive nails (not woth a damn at that task... don't ask... I JUST KNOW!)
Kindle vs. iPad
Is more like
Wrench vs. The most Epic-Multi-Tool-From-Hell-With- Ever-Morphing-Never-Stopping-New-Features-Appearing-Out-of-Thin-Air.
I won't bake, do the washing, make coffee, or land on the moon.
Will it multitask properly?