... I do a lot support for my software on my own. Believe me it's really hard to distinguish legitimate complains from those that are just ridiculous.
One wrong or indiscreet word can spoil even good relationships. ...
Agreed.
I've only complained about two apps that violated Apple's guidelines and each time I was excessively polite for that reason.
Unfortunately, what happened is that I just got passed up the chain a few levels (re-iterating my complaint each time to the supervisor of the person beneath them), and then it just stops dead, and you get no more replies.
The one I remember the most is Shazam's violation of the "gathering location information" rule, and the app still does it two updates later. That's one of the reasons I say that it doesn't seem to me that Apple has anything in place to handle those sort of complaints.
Everyone at every level seemed kind of shocked and confused that someone was actually complaining, and at a loss over what to do about it.
Two reasons why Apple may have for this other than anti-competition:
Apple is obsessed with battery life. The GPS uses a lot of power so using it to supply unwanted ads is not a good thing.
Apple has always considered the use of GPS a privacy issue. That's why the first two times an app activates the GPS the user is asked if they want to allow it. In order to supply location aware ads to a user, the iPhone would have to supply the user's location to some third party ad provider and who knows what scary things they could do with that information? What if they got hacked by thieves that want to know when you are not home?
And the third reason is that Apple would like to monopolize location-based ads on iPhone platform
Probably referring to OEM copies of Windows, which come preinstalled on brand name computers with custom applications selected by the hardware manufacturers. Lots of those custom applications are crappy, crippled, and trial versions. And sometimes they have been accused of being adware. Such software would not be present if you installed the retail version of XP from scratch.
Microsoft tried to counter the trend towards OEM system builders installing such crapware starting with Windows XP, by requiring all OEM copies of Windows to present the user with a "clean" desktop. They were accused of taking unfair advantage of their monopolistic position, and so they backed off and the crapware continued.
Probably referring to OEM copies of Windows, which come preinstalled on brand name computers with custom applications selected by the hardware manufacturers. Lots of those custom applications are crappy, crippled, and trial versions. And sometimes they have been accused of being adware. Such software would not be present if you installed the retail version of XP from scratch.
Microsoft tried to counter the trend towards OEM system builders installing such crapware starting with Windows XP, by requiring all OEM copies of Windows to present the user with a "clean" desktop. They were accused of taking unfair advantage of their monopolistic position, and so they backed off and the crapware continued.
I saw many brand new PCs, and yes, many of them contained trial versions of programs. Such a program can contain (rarely) ad to persuade a user to buy the program, but I've not seen any adware program
I think Apple would quickly come under scrutiny by regulators if they stick to this policy and then roll out their own location aware ad service that developers had to use if they wanted that type of functionality.
They may simply be banning it for now until their own ad service is ready to deploy and the open it up to everyone. That would at least prevent Google from getting a head start.
Either way, I'd consider it a turn for the worst. Apple has historically resisted letting ads interfer with the user experience (like all the adware crap that came pre-installed on Windows computers). The simple fact that Apple purchased an ad company in the first place bothers me.
can you use Bing on Android phones? what about hotmail? or come later this year will you be able to code an app and use anyone but admob for advertising?
I saw many brand new PCs, and yes, many of them contained trial versions of programs. Such a program can contain (rarely) ad to persuade a user to buy the program, but I've not seen any adware program
YMMV then.
I've seen lots and lots of new PCs sold with adware on them and some with actual malware.
I want to point out the word "primarily" in the sentence "If your app uses location-based information primarily to enable mobile advertisers..."
What I get from reading this is that the main function of an app should not be to serve location-based ads. Which means that if serving location-based ads is not the main function of the app, then it is OK. Far from what the title suggests.
Exactly. What they are saying is if your app operations do not require location-based information but you use location information to display ads then it will be rejected. For example, if you developed a math calculator app, which does not need location information, and you use location information to display location specific ads then it will be rejected. However, if you develop a mapping app then include a location based ads then it is fine. However, the rule doesn't say you can't use location based ads, only the use CoreLocation for ads.
I'd have no problem if each iPhone user has the ability to OPT IN to receive ads and there should be no cost to the iPhone user to receive or respond to the ad. My $.02 worth.
Who makes an app to primarily serve advertising? You do raise an interesting point though. What happens if you have a free GPS app with advertising? As the main purpose of the app is to give a long/lat position, could it also use that information to target ads?
The Maps app already does this in a sense. Use the GPS to find where you are, then search something like pub. The results are effectively ads, even if they're not being monopolised.
Do you mean monetized?
As far as I'm concerned, it's not an ad unless they paid something (such as money, product, services) for placement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip
I don't wish to be served any ads, location-aware or otherwise, and I certainly would be selective about who should know where I am calling from, the exception being the emergency services (and maybe my wife!).
I hope that if/when this feature is available, there is an ON/OFF switch so that I can choose whether to activate it or not.
I would like an app-by-app switch in the Settings panel. I get irritated by programs like Shazam that asks if I want it to fetch GPS. They don't explain why they want it, and I don't think my exact location is any of their business.
I'm with Apple on this one. Recently an app called FML updated their app to an ad supported version (killing the old paid version). It continually asks to use location when there is no reason for the app to need it other than to serve ads. The worst thing is, it asks repeatedly when you deny permission, making the app unusable. If the app has a valid reason to use location, I have no problem granting it, but just to serve ads no way. Apple got this right.
I hope this is the case, but while I tend to give Apple the benefit of the doubt also, they are far from saintly in this regard.
Lots of apps in the app store violate Apple's guidelines and it's not like Apple bothers to police it that much in reality. Try registering a complaint with Apple about an iPhone app that violates their own published guidelines and you will quickly discover three things:
1) There is actually no mechanism in place for the user to complain about apps or point out to Apple when an app crosses the line.
2) If you do manage to contact them you will be treated to several rounds of "please contact the developer it's nothing to do with us."
3) Ultimately, they will stop answering your email and nothing will actually happen.
So in fact "the rules" are sketchily enforced, and only enforced by the Apple reviewers themselves. If they miss something in the initial review process, it will stay missed forever irrespective of customer complaints, feedback etc. It's not like they are the Better Business Bureau or actually have an active program of checking up on things like this.
If true, that pretty much blows a big hole in the theory that Apple has their system in place to protect users.
Can you name specific apps that you know violate Apple's rules, and what the violation is?
can you use Bing on Android phones? what about hotmail? or come later this year will you be able to code an app and use anyone but admob for advertising?
There are three types of Google phones
1. Vendors don't need to get any permission from Google, nor do they even have to notify Google. They can do whatever they want with the open source. But they don't get the Google Apps.
2. Full Google Experience Phones. Comes with Google apps. The G1/Droid/Nexus One are Full Google Experience phones.
3. Partial Google Experience Phones. Vendors can license Google apps, but customize it any way they want to. The Motorola Cliq, HTC Hero/Droid Eris are partial google experience phones.
On *any* of these phones, you can install a hotmail app or use any mobile ad provider. I'm not sure whether there can be a different app store for Google Experience phones. Pretty sure it's the same with search. And of course you can install any app from anywhere without using the provided app store without having to root/jailbreak the phone.
A few months ago Google sent a C&D letter to a ROM modder following it up with this carefully worded blog - http://android-developers.blogspot.c...r-android.html. The modder came up with a workaround that everyone was satsified with. But IMO, a PR disaster for Google. Not sure of it was worth it.
It's not the purpose of the App that is being talked about, it's quite clearly the use of Location Based Services within the app.
If I write an App for cyclists showing trails and routes in my area using LBS, and also makes use of them to show me ads for shops and services nearby, that would be OK.
If I write an App like a game or such that that uses LBS just for ads, then it's not.
Then there's your grey area where I use LBS to put you in a "local high score table" of people within 20 miles etc, and also serve ads...
This.
I suspect Apple are not happy about being cut out of the revenue cycle. A free ad-supported application on the iStore makes them no profit at all.
Comments
... I do a lot support for my software on my own. Believe me it's really hard to distinguish legitimate complains from those that are just ridiculous.
One wrong or indiscreet word can spoil even good relationships. ...
Agreed.
I've only complained about two apps that violated Apple's guidelines and each time I was excessively polite for that reason.
Unfortunately, what happened is that I just got passed up the chain a few levels (re-iterating my complaint each time to the supervisor of the person beneath them), and then it just stops dead, and you get no more replies.
The one I remember the most is Shazam's violation of the "gathering location information" rule, and the app still does it two updates later. That's one of the reasons I say that it doesn't seem to me that Apple has anything in place to handle those sort of complaints.
Everyone at every level seemed kind of shocked and confused that someone was actually complaining, and at a loss over what to do about it.
Two reasons why Apple may have for this other than anti-competition:
Apple is obsessed with battery life. The GPS uses a lot of power so using it to supply unwanted ads is not a good thing.
Apple has always considered the use of GPS a privacy issue. That's why the first two times an app activates the GPS the user is asked if they want to allow it. In order to supply location aware ads to a user, the iPhone would have to supply the user's location to some third party ad provider and who knows what scary things they could do with that information? What if they got hacked by thieves that want to know when you are not home?
And the third reason is that Apple would like to monopolize location-based ads on iPhone platform
... like all the adware crap that came pre-installed on Windows computers...
What the crap do you mean?
What the crap do you mean?
Probably referring to OEM copies of Windows, which come preinstalled on brand name computers with custom applications selected by the hardware manufacturers. Lots of those custom applications are crappy, crippled, and trial versions. And sometimes they have been accused of being adware. Such software would not be present if you installed the retail version of XP from scratch.
Microsoft tried to counter the trend towards OEM system builders installing such crapware starting with Windows XP, by requiring all OEM copies of Windows to present the user with a "clean" desktop. They were accused of taking unfair advantage of their monopolistic position, and so they backed off and the crapware continued.
Probably referring to OEM copies of Windows, which come preinstalled on brand name computers with custom applications selected by the hardware manufacturers. Lots of those custom applications are crappy, crippled, and trial versions. And sometimes they have been accused of being adware. Such software would not be present if you installed the retail version of XP from scratch.
Microsoft tried to counter the trend towards OEM system builders installing such crapware starting with Windows XP, by requiring all OEM copies of Windows to present the user with a "clean" desktop. They were accused of taking unfair advantage of their monopolistic position, and so they backed off and the crapware continued.
I saw many brand new PCs, and yes, many of them contained trial versions of programs. Such a program can contain (rarely) ad to persuade a user to buy the program, but I've not seen any adware program
I think Apple would quickly come under scrutiny by regulators if they stick to this policy and then roll out their own location aware ad service that developers had to use if they wanted that type of functionality.
They may simply be banning it for now until their own ad service is ready to deploy and the open it up to everyone. That would at least prevent Google from getting a head start.
Either way, I'd consider it a turn for the worst. Apple has historically resisted letting ads interfer with the user experience (like all the adware crap that came pre-installed on Windows computers). The simple fact that Apple purchased an ad company in the first place bothers me.
can you use Bing on Android phones? what about hotmail? or come later this year will you be able to code an app and use anyone but admob for advertising?
I saw many brand new PCs, and yes, many of them contained trial versions of programs. Such a program can contain (rarely) ad to persuade a user to buy the program, but I've not seen any adware program
YMMV then.
I've seen lots and lots of new PCs sold with adware on them and some with actual malware.
I want to point out the word "primarily" in the sentence "If your app uses location-based information primarily to enable mobile advertisers..."
What I get from reading this is that the main function of an app should not be to serve location-based ads. Which means that if serving location-based ads is not the main function of the app, then it is OK. Far from what the title suggests.
Exactly. What they are saying is if your app operations do not require location-based information but you use location information to display ads then it will be rejected. For example, if you developed a math calculator app, which does not need location information, and you use location information to display location specific ads then it will be rejected. However, if you develop a mapping app then include a location based ads then it is fine. However, the rule doesn't say you can't use location based ads, only the use CoreLocation for ads.
Who makes an app to primarily serve advertising? You do raise an interesting point though. What happens if you have a free GPS app with advertising? As the main purpose of the app is to give a long/lat position, could it also use that information to target ads?
The Maps app already does this in a sense. Use the GPS to find where you are, then search something like pub. The results are effectively ads, even if they're not being monopolised.
Do you mean monetized?
As far as I'm concerned, it's not an ad unless they paid something (such as money, product, services) for placement.
I don't wish to be served any ads, location-aware or otherwise, and I certainly would be selective about who should know where I am calling from, the exception being the emergency services (and maybe my wife!).
I hope that if/when this feature is available, there is an ON/OFF switch so that I can choose whether to activate it or not.
I would like an app-by-app switch in the Settings panel. I get irritated by programs like Shazam that asks if I want it to fetch GPS. They don't explain why they want it, and I don't think my exact location is any of their business.
I hope this is the case, but while I tend to give Apple the benefit of the doubt also, they are far from saintly in this regard.
Lots of apps in the app store violate Apple's guidelines and it's not like Apple bothers to police it that much in reality. Try registering a complaint with Apple about an iPhone app that violates their own published guidelines and you will quickly discover three things:
1) There is actually no mechanism in place for the user to complain about apps or point out to Apple when an app crosses the line.
2) If you do manage to contact them you will be treated to several rounds of "please contact the developer it's nothing to do with us."
3) Ultimately, they will stop answering your email and nothing will actually happen.
So in fact "the rules" are sketchily enforced, and only enforced by the Apple reviewers themselves. If they miss something in the initial review process, it will stay missed forever irrespective of customer complaints, feedback etc. It's not like they are the Better Business Bureau or actually have an active program of checking up on things like this.
If true, that pretty much blows a big hole in the theory that Apple has their system in place to protect users.
Can you name specific apps that you know violate Apple's rules, and what the violation is?
can you use Bing on Android phones? what about hotmail? or come later this year will you be able to code an app and use anyone but admob for advertising?
There are three types of Google phones
1. Vendors don't need to get any permission from Google, nor do they even have to notify Google. They can do whatever they want with the open source. But they don't get the Google Apps.
2. Full Google Experience Phones. Comes with Google apps. The G1/Droid/Nexus One are Full Google Experience phones.
3. Partial Google Experience Phones. Vendors can license Google apps, but customize it any way they want to. The Motorola Cliq, HTC Hero/Droid Eris are partial google experience phones.
On *any* of these phones, you can install a hotmail app or use any mobile ad provider. I'm not sure whether there can be a different app store for Google Experience phones. Pretty sure it's the same with search. And of course you can install any app from anywhere without using the provided app store without having to root/jailbreak the phone.
A few months ago Google sent a C&D letter to a ROM modder following it up with this carefully worded blog - http://android-developers.blogspot.c...r-android.html. The modder came up with a workaround that everyone was satsified with. But IMO, a PR disaster for Google. Not sure of it was worth it.
It's not the purpose of the App that is being talked about, it's quite clearly the use of Location Based Services within the app.
If I write an App for cyclists showing trails and routes in my area using LBS, and also makes use of them to show me ads for shops and services nearby, that would be OK.
If I write an App like a game or such that that uses LBS just for ads, then it's not.
Then there's your grey area where I use LBS to put you in a "local high score table" of people within 20 miles etc, and also serve ads...
This.
I suspect Apple are not happy about being cut out of the revenue cycle. A free ad-supported application on the iStore makes them no profit at all.