...Either way, it appears you do little or no testing of product coming off the line or you would have found and fixed this issue before the units ever left the factory...
(On a side note Apple, anti-aliasing in Linux looks tons better than in MacOS X.)
These two points have merit (in my opinion).
The magnitude of the problematic screen issue with current iMac 27, and remembering back to the widespread and acknowledged issue with vertical lines on some iMac C2D models, does seem that Apple has fallen down on its Quality Control process or lowered its testing or component vendor requirements or something.
Re. the anti-aliasing...
While I cannot comment on Linux, having only used it a bit on one machine, I have found several instances where, to my eyes, the Windows text anti-aliasing has been better than some of the Mac text anti-aliasing.
Maybe I'm just picky about that because of three converging trends:
1) screens getting larger,
2) dpi getting higher, thus default (optimal) font resolution produces much smaller, tinier text type letters,
3) my eyes seem to prefer slightly larger, definitely more crispy text for reading.
-- (honestly, I am sure it has nothing to do with the fact that I seem to be getting older somehow...
This discussion only shows two camps. One side which is waiting for Apple to fall and started bombarding them with comments on how terrible they really are and the other camp holding vigilance regardless of how their holy Apple may or may not have screwed up.
There are many reasons to like or dislike the mighty Apple. However, what really irks me is that this stupid display problem whether is it a firmware issue or design fault or both, has emerged since their change to the Alu Imacs. Each new launch, there was some small problems with their display. I agree that perhaps there was some quality control issues that may have allowed defective imacs to slip through to the customers. However, when there are numerous imac owners complaining of the same fault, this is not a random event but an issue that can be traced and replicated for fault finding purposes.
Given that the Apple culture that SJ have instilled and promised the consumers that their product is the best and that the premium we pay for the product is well worth it. I think I am entitled to raise the expectation bar for their products higher.
Apple way of resolving the problem is to release patches that may or may not work. This is just opening up another can of worms and consumers would want to know what happened. Why not just come clean and update the community what concrete efforts are being taken to resolve this issue once and for all.
I am unhappy not because the mighty Apple Imac has some production issues. I am unhappy because I know nothing, waiting for some solution from "above" to rectify an issue that I know nothing about
Of course in surveys the first upgrade most people do to their linux netbook is stick windows on it.
Where is this survey and why would people do that when Windows comes free with a machine?
It's a choice of either, Ubuntu or Windows.
Quote:
Open office is free because it is terrible. Of course you have many who stand by open office but this is because they are poor pikies who cant afford a proper productivity suite.
It's actually the same quality as OfficeMac, and you would know this if you tried it.
Quote:
As with most things in life you get what you pay for.
If you don't need much, why pay much?
Do you buy whole albums for a few good songs that only would cost a buck or two instead if you bought them individually?
You have some major reading comprehension issues. Further you really shouldn't comment on products you don't own. I'm sure customers are given new machines if they insist. My understanding of the problem is that it is software related. So I don't think handing it over to Apple will fix anything. Sure you can get a 100% refund. Nobody is quicker to do that than Apple. Have you ever tried returning a computer to Best buy, or directly to HP or Dell. Good luck with a Linux "warranty".
This sounds like a courtesy to me. "Sorry for the trouble". The 15% refund has nothing to do with returning the machine. In fact if you already got a 100% refund, I doubt you'll get the 15% on top of that. Like I said the problem is related to ATI's firmware. AKA not hardware or QC related.
Go buy a Dell or an HP and experience how well their products and QC stack up if you're so confident that Apple makes crap. Can you tell me what other products you are referring to?
I wonder if you'll get 15% back from HP? Doubt it. Besides why criticize Apple for making their machines in china? Name one company that doesn't. You're a troll.
I usually refrain from re-response, but in your case...
I stand by my statements. First, my reading comprehension is just fine. It is sensible that a 15% 'refund' in this context would indicate 15% atop the purchase price, but the actual wording of the 'article' does not properly articulate that, and if you didn't notice, you are lacking some language skills. Next you prattle a host of tangental comments to mine, but fine, let's address those...
Ownership is not requisite to observe or comment about an issue. If you must know, experience is amenable; being the owner of a Mac LC, Mac II si, Quadra 610, Performa 6110, PowerMac G5, a PowerBook, a MacBook Pro, a MacBook, two Mac minis and two iPhones, I've acquired abundant insight, furthermore investigating the purchase of a 27" iMac and thereby highly motivated toward investigative due diligence, I retain faculty.
Customers are given new machines if they insist? Naïveté. How long, how oft have you dealt with Apple? Software/ATI? How do you know? Nevertheless irrelevant, as proper QA would discover. Linux and warranty aren't associative terms. Hardware is warranted by manufacturer aside of software, and for the vendor HP, dons a superior 3 year term.
Did I say "Apple makes crap?" I did not. I clearly indicated Apple's QC is slipping, insightfully buttressed by decades of proficient knowledge. Outsourcing to China is not a singularization, rather it's a disease, the point thereof showing Apple's to no longer be the superior products of yore. Ogre.
I usually refrain from re-response, but in your case...
BLAH BLAH BLAH; etc etc etc....
I stand by my statements. ...
Wow, you done all grow'd up. Cogent and I appreciate it, but I still think it was the wrong way to start off the discussion. You're opinion is slanted and since you graced me with a rebuttal I would like to do the same.
First of all you were consused by the "rebate". You said so yourself. I thought it was pretty self explanatory. Your "enthusiasm" if you will, convinced me that you are easily aggravated and yes I agree confused.
Then you arrogantly claimed to know that Apple's QC is subpar based on anecdotal evidence and your perceptions. That simply doesn't hold up. "little to no testing" was the wording you chose and that is simply right out. Do you visit Apple plants or consult for them? Any consumer report will support the case that Apple not only makes great products or that their customers are happy, but that they are great when it comes to fixing their "mistakes". That's not my perception; that's a thousand perceptions. My personal anecdote does happen to support that report as well as I've returned several products within the warranty period for immediate swap out. Maybe you should be nicer to the staff.
Moving along...
"Maybe this is what you get for building stuff in china?... Get your act together" you barked.
I know it's not ideal to see products made overseas, but if you could think it through you'd probably come to the same conclusion as Apple corporate.
American companies outsource almost all of their manufacturing to china and throughout Asia for obvious reasons. How is Apple's choice to do the same a reflection of poor judgement? You would want them to be unable to be competitive?
I understand that for Americans there might be a perception that we make better products, but it's simply not true. Obviously you've never been on the floor of a large manufacturing plant, trust me it's not usually a bastion of higher intelligence. Hell, even where Americans are great at something (Hollywood for example) they've had to deal with outsourcing to Asia, Canada, Latin America, Mexico and occasionally Europe.
Simply because products are made with Asian hands (or otherwise) doesn't mean it's less of a product. Now had you said, "I guess that's what you get for cutting corners" then I might feel a little different, though that would not be accurate or fair to Apple either. The spirit of your comments were borderline racist at times in my opinion.
Simply put, there has not been a "huge" (your words) drop in the quality of Apple's products because they make products overseas. That is a patent exaggeration based on your microcosmos of experience, colored by your own attitude. Further, quality can only be measured in comparison to other manufacturers.
Many people already "despise" the "Apple Tax". How much do you figure the Ipad would cost if it were made in the states? By the time you pay for the increase in wages, OSHA qualified facilities, health insurance, child care, overtime etc, probably $3,000 and I don't think it Americans would be buying it. Until the whole system changes (breaks down) we can't expect anyone or any company not to follow suit. We should be glad they are saving enough money that they can afford to open retail stores. I have a few friends that work the retail stores and I'm sure they are happier there than on the plant floor. Manufacturing is just too costly in the states, mostly due to safety and union regulations not to mention the often massive overhead.
It does raise an interesting question however, is it egalitarian to make affordable, powerful and arguably "enlightening" technology like computers and put it in the hands of "every global inhabitant", even if it's at the "expense" of "slave laborers"? (American perception, from what I understand most who make products for the world, like their jobs at least as much as we would in kind. Some even more so.) Or would it be a "crime" to bring manufacturing back to the states, even if it meant making "better" products (debatable) that are so expensive that they become the exclusive property of the wealthy? Would that not essentially encourage two classes?
I don't think irrational logic is the answer to this line of questioning. Apple corporate has done what it had to do to stay in line with modern trends. We can't measure "right" from our own vantage point alone. While it may not be fair for me to assume so, I'm not sure you thought it out before you made your comments and I believe that it's reflected in the quality of your argument. I'm glad that you feel as though you're many years of owning a few macs is "insightful" but your argument is weak and your "buttresses" are failing.
Where is this survey and why would people do that when Windows comes free with a machine?
It's a choice of either, Ubuntu or Windows.
There is a price difference between the netbooks shipping with windows rather than linux. People buy the cheaper model and have no idea what linux is, they just see that the specs on the netbook look the same but one is £100 cheaper
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper
It's actually the same quality as OfficeMac, and you would know this if you tried it.
Bullshit. Openoffice is SOOO slow. It is terrible on the Mac and only marginally better than terrible on the PC. We have many clients who took the free route only to dump openoffice to go for Office 2007.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper
If you don't need much, why pay much?
fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper
Do you buy whole albums for a few good songs that only would cost a buck or two instead if you bought them individually?
Don't you bother to read or follow your own posts?
You wrote, "I believe it's trended down ever since the release of the Pad."
Why would you write that?
The iPad has not been released.
Perhaps he should have said announced, rather than release.
However, he was perfectly correct in that the information about what the iPad is and does has been released and the markets are now able to use that information. It is the release of the information, rather than the physical product, which is important in this issue.
It's not an answer to netbooks. Different target-audience.
iSteve officially compared it to netbooks. He said that for the 'Pad to succeed, it had to do things better than a notebook and better than a phone. He said that netbooks don't do anything better.
iSteve is the one who made the comparison. Deal with it.
iSteve officially compared it to netbooks. He said that for the 'Pad to succeed, it had to do things better than a notebook and better than a phone. He said that netbooks don't do anything better.
iSteve is the one who made the comparison. Deal with it.
Comparing is not the same as putting out a product within the same category.
You are saying he also compared it to a phone. So the iPad would be Steve's answer to phones?
And what's with the attitude? Deal with it??? Sheesh.
Wow, you done all grow'd up. Cogent and I appreciate it, but I still think it was the wrong way to start off the discussion. You're opinion is slanted and since you graced me with a rebuttal I would like to do the same.
Blah, Blah, Blah...
It appears you're still not getting the points, and reading in ideas that are not there. It was a great way to start off a discussion, the post has validity, you know it, and I don't have any more time to waste on this.
Everytime I launch Safari I never get my home page to stay up anymore. It shows for a sp[lit second then disappears- I get a blank page. And the whole printer BS - don't get me started.
Perhaps he should have said announced, rather than release.
However, he was perfectly correct in that the information about what the iPad is and does has been released and the markets are now able to use that information. It is the release of the information, rather than the physical product, which is important in this issue.
Thank you. It's wasn't that hard for him/her to comprehend- was it?
The stock always drops after a product release because the product never lives up to the expectations of the rumour mill.
the market sold on the news
and the market itself is roiling over weak EUROPE data
one group of short term AAPL traders sold off.
OPENING a window for a new set to invest .
also since the ipad comes out in march some feel that >> why hold aapl when its best ipad numbers are already built in at 220 per share so very little upside for 60 days or more
Everytime I launch Safari I never get my home page to stay up anymore. It shows for a sp[lit second then disappears- I get a blank page. And the whole printer BS - don't get me started.
fix
your
permissions
or buy that red dell LAP TOP you secretly pine over
Comments
...Either way, it appears you do little or no testing of product coming off the line or you would have found and fixed this issue before the units ever left the factory...
(On a side note Apple, anti-aliasing in Linux looks tons better than in MacOS X.)
These two points have merit (in my opinion).
The magnitude of the problematic screen issue with current iMac 27, and remembering back to the widespread and acknowledged issue with vertical lines on some iMac C2D models, does seem that Apple has fallen down on its Quality Control process or lowered its testing or component vendor requirements or something.
Re. the anti-aliasing...
While I cannot comment on Linux, having only used it a bit on one machine, I have found several instances where, to my eyes, the Windows text anti-aliasing has been better than some of the Mac text anti-aliasing.
Maybe I'm just picky about that because of three converging trends:
1) screens getting larger,
2) dpi getting higher, thus default (optimal) font resolution produces much smaller, tinier text type letters,
3) my eyes seem to prefer slightly larger, definitely more crispy text for reading.
-- (honestly, I am sure it has nothing to do with the fact that I seem to be getting older somehow...
There are many reasons to like or dislike the mighty Apple. However, what really irks me is that this stupid display problem whether is it a firmware issue or design fault or both, has emerged since their change to the Alu Imacs. Each new launch, there was some small problems with their display. I agree that perhaps there was some quality control issues that may have allowed defective imacs to slip through to the customers. However, when there are numerous imac owners complaining of the same fault, this is not a random event but an issue that can be traced and replicated for fault finding purposes.
Given that the Apple culture that SJ have instilled and promised the consumers that their product is the best and that the premium we pay for the product is well worth it. I think I am entitled to raise the expectation bar for their products higher.
Apple way of resolving the problem is to release patches that may or may not work. This is just opening up another can of worms and consumers would want to know what happened. Why not just come clean and update the community what concrete efforts are being taken to resolve this issue once and for all.
I am unhappy not because the mighty Apple Imac has some production issues. I am unhappy because I know nothing, waiting for some solution from "above" to rectify an issue that I know nothing about
Of course in surveys the first upgrade most people do to their linux netbook is stick windows on it.
Where is this survey and why would people do that when Windows comes free with a machine?
It's a choice of either, Ubuntu or Windows.
Open office is free because it is terrible. Of course you have many who stand by open office but this is because they are poor pikies who cant afford a proper productivity suite.
It's actually the same quality as OfficeMac, and you would know this if you tried it.
As with most things in life you get what you pay for.
If you don't need much, why pay much?
Do you buy whole albums for a few good songs that only would cost a buck or two instead if you bought them individually?
I didn't think so.
What product release? The iPad (from the orignal post) has not been released.
What are you talking about?
We now know what it does and the world yawned.
You have some major reading comprehension issues. Further you really shouldn't comment on products you don't own. I'm sure customers are given new machines if they insist. My understanding of the problem is that it is software related. So I don't think handing it over to Apple will fix anything. Sure you can get a 100% refund. Nobody is quicker to do that than Apple. Have you ever tried returning a computer to Best buy, or directly to HP or Dell. Good luck with a Linux "warranty".
This sounds like a courtesy to me. "Sorry for the trouble". The 15% refund has nothing to do with returning the machine. In fact if you already got a 100% refund, I doubt you'll get the 15% on top of that. Like I said the problem is related to ATI's firmware. AKA not hardware or QC related.
Go buy a Dell or an HP and experience how well their products and QC stack up if you're so confident that Apple makes crap. Can you tell me what other products you are referring to?
I wonder if you'll get 15% back from HP? Doubt it. Besides why criticize Apple for making their machines in china? Name one company that doesn't. You're a troll.
I usually refrain from re-response, but in your case...
I stand by my statements. First, my reading comprehension is just fine. It is sensible that a 15% 'refund' in this context would indicate 15% atop the purchase price, but the actual wording of the 'article' does not properly articulate that, and if you didn't notice, you are lacking some language skills. Next you prattle a host of tangental comments to mine, but fine, let's address those...
Ownership is not requisite to observe or comment about an issue. If you must know, experience is amenable; being the owner of a Mac LC, Mac II si, Quadra 610, Performa 6110, PowerMac G5, a PowerBook, a MacBook Pro, a MacBook, two Mac minis and two iPhones, I've acquired abundant insight, furthermore investigating the purchase of a 27" iMac and thereby highly motivated toward investigative due diligence, I retain faculty.
Customers are given new machines if they insist? Naïveté. How long, how oft have you dealt with Apple? Software/ATI? How do you know? Nevertheless irrelevant, as proper QA would discover. Linux and warranty aren't associative terms. Hardware is warranted by manufacturer aside of software, and for the vendor HP, dons a superior 3 year term.
Did I say "Apple makes crap?" I did not. I clearly indicated Apple's QC is slipping, insightfully buttressed by decades of proficient knowledge. Outsourcing to China is not a singularization, rather it's a disease, the point thereof showing Apple's to no longer be the superior products of yore. Ogre.
What are you talking about?
Don't you bother to read or follow your own posts?
You wrote, "I believe it's trended down ever since the release of the Pad."
Why would you write that?
The iPad has not been released.
nothing major...
just all the facts.
two posts and still haven't said anything ... how long do we have to wait? .... or maybe you're just incapable of expressing your "facts".
I usually refrain from re-response, but in your case...
BLAH BLAH BLAH; etc etc etc....
I stand by my statements. ...
Wow, you done all grow'd up. Cogent and I appreciate it, but I still think it was the wrong way to start off the discussion. You're opinion is slanted and since you graced me with a rebuttal I would like to do the same.
First of all you were consused by the "rebate". You said so yourself. I thought it was pretty self explanatory. Your "enthusiasm" if you will, convinced me that you are easily aggravated and yes I agree confused.
Then you arrogantly claimed to know that Apple's QC is subpar based on anecdotal evidence and your perceptions. That simply doesn't hold up. "little to no testing" was the wording you chose and that is simply right out. Do you visit Apple plants or consult for them? Any consumer report will support the case that Apple not only makes great products or that their customers are happy, but that they are great when it comes to fixing their "mistakes". That's not my perception; that's a thousand perceptions. My personal anecdote does happen to support that report as well as I've returned several products within the warranty period for immediate swap out. Maybe you should be nicer to the staff.
Moving along...
"Maybe this is what you get for building stuff in china?... Get your act together" you barked.
I know it's not ideal to see products made overseas, but if you could think it through you'd probably come to the same conclusion as Apple corporate.
American companies outsource almost all of their manufacturing to china and throughout Asia for obvious reasons. How is Apple's choice to do the same a reflection of poor judgement? You would want them to be unable to be competitive?
I understand that for Americans there might be a perception that we make better products, but it's simply not true. Obviously you've never been on the floor of a large manufacturing plant, trust me it's not usually a bastion of higher intelligence. Hell, even where Americans are great at something (Hollywood for example) they've had to deal with outsourcing to Asia, Canada, Latin America, Mexico and occasionally Europe.
Simply because products are made with Asian hands (or otherwise) doesn't mean it's less of a product. Now had you said, "I guess that's what you get for cutting corners" then I might feel a little different, though that would not be accurate or fair to Apple either. The spirit of your comments were borderline racist at times in my opinion.
Simply put, there has not been a "huge" (your words) drop in the quality of Apple's products because they make products overseas. That is a patent exaggeration based on your microcosmos of experience, colored by your own attitude. Further, quality can only be measured in comparison to other manufacturers.
Many people already "despise" the "Apple Tax". How much do you figure the Ipad would cost if it were made in the states? By the time you pay for the increase in wages, OSHA qualified facilities, health insurance, child care, overtime etc, probably $3,000 and I don't think it Americans would be buying it. Until the whole system changes (breaks down) we can't expect anyone or any company not to follow suit. We should be glad they are saving enough money that they can afford to open retail stores. I have a few friends that work the retail stores and I'm sure they are happier there than on the plant floor. Manufacturing is just too costly in the states, mostly due to safety and union regulations not to mention the often massive overhead.
It does raise an interesting question however, is it egalitarian to make affordable, powerful and arguably "enlightening" technology like computers and put it in the hands of "every global inhabitant", even if it's at the "expense" of "slave laborers"? (American perception, from what I understand most who make products for the world, like their jobs at least as much as we would in kind. Some even more so.) Or would it be a "crime" to bring manufacturing back to the states, even if it meant making "better" products (debatable) that are so expensive that they become the exclusive property of the wealthy? Would that not essentially encourage two classes?
I don't think irrational logic is the answer to this line of questioning. Apple corporate has done what it had to do to stay in line with modern trends. We can't measure "right" from our own vantage point alone. While it may not be fair for me to assume so, I'm not sure you thought it out before you made your comments and I believe that it's reflected in the quality of your argument. I'm glad that you feel as though you're many years of owning a few macs is "insightful" but your argument is weak and your "buttresses" are failing.
Where is this survey and why would people do that when Windows comes free with a machine?
It's a choice of either, Ubuntu or Windows.
There is a price difference between the netbooks shipping with windows rather than linux. People buy the cheaper model and have no idea what linux is, they just see that the specs on the netbook look the same but one is £100 cheaper
It's actually the same quality as OfficeMac, and you would know this if you tried it.
Bullshit. Openoffice is SOOO slow. It is terrible on the Mac and only marginally better than terrible on the PC. We have many clients who took the free route only to dump openoffice to go for Office 2007.
If you don't need much, why pay much?
fair enough.
Do you buy whole albums for a few good songs that only would cost a buck or two instead if you bought them individually?
I buy cd's, so yeah I buy full albums.
Don't you bother to read or follow your own posts?
You wrote, "I believe it's trended down ever since the release of the Pad."
Why would you write that?
The iPad has not been released.
Perhaps he should have said announced, rather than release.
However, he was perfectly correct in that the information about what the iPad is and does has been released and the markets are now able to use that information. It is the release of the information, rather than the physical product, which is important in this issue.
It's not an answer to netbooks. Different target-audience.
iSteve officially compared it to netbooks. He said that for the 'Pad to succeed, it had to do things better than a notebook and better than a phone. He said that netbooks don't do anything better.
iSteve is the one who made the comparison. Deal with it.
iSteve officially compared it to netbooks. He said that for the 'Pad to succeed, it had to do things better than a notebook and better than a phone. He said that netbooks don't do anything better.
iSteve is the one who made the comparison. Deal with it.
Comparing is not the same as putting out a product within the same category.
You are saying he also compared it to a phone. So the iPad would be Steve's answer to phones?
And what's with the attitude? Deal with it??? Sheesh.
Wow, you done all grow'd up. Cogent and I appreciate it, but I still think it was the wrong way to start off the discussion. You're opinion is slanted and since you graced me with a rebuttal I would like to do the same.
Blah, Blah, Blah...
It appears you're still not getting the points, and reading in ideas that are not there. It was a great way to start off a discussion, the post has validity, you know it, and I don't have any more time to waste on this.
Apple sell an image. A fundamental part of which is 'it just works'
Admitting this destroys that in one foul swoop.
style over substance...?
you bet..
One foul swoop? Conjures up visions of a single swish of a toilet brush in a dirty commode!
Perhaps one fowl swoop - a raptor diving over the surface of the water and snatching a fish from the surface?
Most likely "one fell swoop" - http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/20...ell-swoop.html
Ah - the joys of mangled phrases - they make my day! http://streams.wgbh.org/online/carroll/carr20080418.mp3
SL is a disaster.
Everytime I launch Safari I never get my home page to stay up anymore. It shows for a sp[lit second then disappears- I get a blank page. And the whole printer BS - don't get me started.
Don't you bother to read or follow your own posts?
You wrote, "I believe it's trended down ever since the release of the Pad."
Why would you write that?
The iPad has not been released.
OK - Unveiled for you. You know exactly what I meant. Are you a stickler for details as well? Or just dense?
Perhaps he should have said announced, rather than release.
However, he was perfectly correct in that the information about what the iPad is and does has been released and the markets are now able to use that information. It is the release of the information, rather than the physical product, which is important in this issue.
Thank you. It's wasn't that hard for him/her to comprehend- was it?
The only problems that I have are software related:
1- The StartUp Boot Switcher doesn't recognize my Windows XP partition unless I put the Windows DVD in the SuperDrive;
2- I can't get a High ID signal for the aMule Kademlia network when connecting through Airport Extreme;
3- MacFuse is 32 bit only which prevents me from using the 64 bit capabilities of Snow Leopard with Windows applications;
4- I cannot cut and paste in Finder menus as I did with Windows XP. Snow Leopard is unbelievably limited in that respect;
5- When watching JPG slides, the Back and Forward buttons are not working which is quite annoying.
Hopefully, Apple will resolve these issues in the near future.
The stock always drops after a product release because the product never lives up to the expectations of the rumour mill.
the market sold on the news
and the market itself is roiling over weak EUROPE data
one group of short term AAPL traders sold off.
OPENING a window for a new set to invest .
also since the ipad comes out in march some feel that >> why hold aapl when its best ipad numbers are already built in at 220 per share so very little upside for 60 days or more
so sell now take profit
re buy in late feb.
aapl is a great long term buy right now
so is is GM
peace 9
Everytime I launch Safari I never get my home page to stay up anymore. It shows for a sp[lit second then disappears- I get a blank page. And the whole printer BS - don't get me started.
fix
your
permissions
or buy that red dell LAP TOP you secretly pine over