The fact that an Ipad Flash plug-in already exist but Apple wont allow it pretty much says it all on how controlling Apple really is. Apple is getting worst than China over internet censorship. The funniest thing about flash this week is Disney ceo approving the Ipad while Disney websites are so full of flash they won?t even work without it?
The Web is not going to change overnight on still unavailable hardware, when the Ipad ships, most websites won?t fully work in it. I will buy an Ipad only if it?s hackable so we can bypass the app-store or if Flash works when it ships.
1) No, Flash 10.1 is not ready for any mobile platform or Mac OS X.
2) If Flash works on iPhone OS then why doesn't Flash exist in the jailbreak community where it's beyond's Apple's "communist" hammer.
3) Apple isn't censoring any internet content. They'd have to block sites in Safari to do that.
4) Like most major companies with a web presence Disney added a mobile version which is ideal for a smaller display and weaker HW.
5) Overnight, of course not, but it will change. How does that happen? First you start off by pissing off people with a myopic view of the world.
6) A tablet with an ARM processor isn't supposed to be for everyone.
and The Ipad is promising FULL internet access, not a 2x2 inch nerf mobile versions of it… I don’t want to have to download an app just to see a website…
and The Ipad is promising FULL internet access, not a 2x2 inch nerf mobile versions of it? I don?t want to have to download an app just to see a website?
Good news, Everybody, the iPad comes with Safari pre-installed.
PS: Flash does not an internet make. I can't view Active Server pages on any mobile device that isn't WinMo. I can't media that requires Real. Oh, these aren't players anymore? Guess what will happen to Flash for streaming video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
lol, you obviouse[sic] cant even read
Why not try posting an adult-like rebuttal to my clear and concise points instead of an ellipsis and hyperlink. I've read the article, but you're failing to understand that Flash for streaming video being overtaken by HTM5 isn't the same as HTML5 replacing Flash on the internet, as witnessed by your comment about Disney.
HTML5 contains no codecs. Browsers still have to support codecs for the HTML5 video tag to function. WebKit-based browsers support H.264 while Mozilla's Gecko(Firefox) supports Ogg. IE9 will likely support H.264.
Flash and H.264 aren't fighting. Flash is the player, the replacement is HTML5, Javascript and CSS. Flash players can stream H.264, too. It's how all the quality video players have encoding their videos for some time now.
The writing is on the wall. Flash for streaming video will lose marketshare from here on out. It's just too inefficient. On top of that, decoding higher and higher amounts of streaming video is not a light process for mobiles. The last thing they need is Flash robbing all the resources before the decoding can begin.
Adobe still can't make a decent version of Flash for the Mac. They still don't have Flash 10.1 with H.264 HW acceleration, like they have in the Beta version for Windows. Adobe also doesn't have Flash for all the other mobile platforms out there so this is not just a problem with OS X but with every mobile OS. Mozilla has disabled Flash 10.1 in Firefox Mobile on Maemo for Nokia devices because it makes browsing nearly impossible. That is before you even try to play video from Hulu and other such sites.
Flash is great in many ways, but playing video on mobiles is not one of them.
My point is that Apple is pushing H.264 and HTML5, but as a solution, they will still require proprietary software to stream video. I know that the group that owns the patents has extended the no fee use of H.264 for about five years. My guess is that is about how long it will take for the wide spread adoption of HTML5 and H.264 to take place. Then my guess is that the group will then say that all sites using H.264 must stop using the technology or pay their fee...
We should find out Monday or Tuesday what Smartphones are going to get the 10.1 version of Flash.
I suspect that most Android phones are going to get it... We will see if they can handle it.....
P.S. I did notice that when I put Flash player 10.1 beta on my Macbook Pro. It did lower the CPU usage about 30%. I am not sure if it had anything to do with hardware Video processor or not, but it is more efficient....
My point is that Apple is pushing H.264 and HTML5, but as a solution, they will still require proprietary software to stream video. I know that the group that owns the patents has extended the no fee use of H.264 for about five years. My guess is that is about how long it will take for the wide spread adoption of HTML5 and H.264 to take place. Then my guess is that the group will then say that all sites using H.264 must stop using the technology or pay their fee...
The player is proprietary on the iPhone, but it could play in the browser if Apple wanted it to. The design makes sense for a 3.5" phone. Don't confuse that optimal choice as a requirement. HTML5 and H.264 are supported by WebKit and HTML5 and Ogg are supported by Gecko.
Quote:
We should find out Monday or Tuesday what Smartphones are going to get the 10.1 version of Flash.
I suspect that most Android phones are going to get it... We will see if they can handle it.....
Most, not all Android phones will get it, at least not right away. Then there is the elephant in the room: resource usage. I don't expect many phones to be able to play any Hulu or YouTube video in Flash.
People are confusing a move to lightweight open standards for video streaming with a move from Flash altogether. Flash is going nowhere for a very long time, but Flash will be losing marketshare in video streaming from here on out.
Quote:
P.S. I did notice that when I put Flash player 10.1 beta on my Macbook Pro. It did lower the CPU usage about 30%. I am not sure if it had anything to do with hardware Video processor or not, but it is more efficient....
I use over 40% with Flash (10.0) video streaming at 480p from YouTube on a 2.4GHz MBP. With HTML5 Beta I use about 12%. The hit to a MBP battery alone even if you can stream it is severe. Imagine a tiny phone battery in comparison.
I tried Flash 10.1 beta when it first came out. It was unstable and without HW acceleration it was not worth it. I'll give it another try.
HTML 5.0 = World Wide (pun intended) standard, set by standards body.
Flash = Adobes proprietary toolset.
I do believe you are right about Apple supporting 'Industry Standards'....
Evidently, Flash performance on the OS X platform is so bad, that there are multiple browser plug-ins to help mitigate Flashes short comings. I don't know, I use 'no-script' in Firefox on my Mac, flash doesn't present a problem - I just avoid sites that require it.
Just because 'everyone' is doing something, doesn't make it right. :-)
No what makes it right is that it makes the most sense for the time being.
HTML 5 is not a standard, and there is no worldwide standards body. Even the W3C is not a standards body - it makes recommendations, but can't impose or enforce any standards (look at MSIE for an example). A lot of people on here get really riled up about standards! standards! when there really aren't many other than the ones that have evolved out of practice and usage.
HTML 5 is a proposed specification being written by The Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group (WHATWG), which is made up of people from Apple, Mozilla, and Opera. Combined these companies have less than half the browser market share, the firefox browser having the vast majority of this groups share - apple and opera being the 2 smallest mainstream browsers on the web.
Microsoft opted not to join this group and has not implemented html 5 recommendations into its browsers, which have the other half of the browser market share. They have not indicated that they even plan to in the future. Microsoft can, if not kill HTML 5, at least hold it hostage for a long time.
HTML 5 is barely implemented in the browsers that support it and not at all implemented in over half the browsers on the web. It is not a foregone conclusion, and its certainly not a standard. Web developers do not want to go back to developing and maintaining multiple sites for multiple browsers. Flash solved a lot of these problems especially when it comes to delivering video content. Flash works in all of the mainstream browsers (except the mobile version of safari), which means that content providers that want to deliver video can reach in the high 95+% of all browsers using flash. Right now, flash is still the best choice for delivering video on the web. You can reach the most people with the least development cost.
Hopefully HTML WILL BECOME more standard, at least in practice, because it is, in the end, a superior and more open than technologies like Flash and Silverlight. I just don't see this happening any time soon.
It's great that HULU is working on this - not being able to get sites like hulu and netflix is a deal-breaker for me getting an iPad.
I just disable flash (in IE on my PC) for the fun of it and tried to surf the web and its a disaster. Nothing works: CNN, Disney, MSNBC, almost all game sites like blizzard and blizzard armory, EA, most big corporation sites like sony, GM, Honda, ... and lots of sites have huge holes (video, special effects, ...). The only fun thing about it is ads are all disable.
I tried to surf the same sites using Safari on my Ipod Touch. Here are a few examples:
Disney -> its detecting I am on a mobile device and its transfering me on there mobile site, which is a gimp version of the real thing.
CNN -> Safari abends... Second time its transfering me on there mobile site, which sucks big time
MSNBC -> its transfering me on there mobile site, again a gimp version of the real thing. They do have a nice app in the appstore
Sony -> Still dont display a thing, unusable Update: depends on what links you used to get there: there is a non-flash version of the site.
EA -> Mobile version only, not a bad site
Honda -> Still dont display a thing, unusable
Blizzard -> Limited functionality. Cant logging in account management or forums. Can search on armory but cant acces the result of the search like items, characters, ...
Online banking -> working (at least something works)
Online trading -> not working, cant logging
...mobile sites are a better web experience than a laptop? I dont think so
You have to be one hell of a fanboy to think no flash support is a small thing. Its not just about video, its much more that that, Flash is everywhere.
This thread is now ruining by the Three Trollketeers, which is too bad since Hulu moving to HTML5 video tags was a good conversation.We never even got into how long it would likely take them or if they'll make a dedicated iPad app to deliver their content in a more controlled manner. If they'll then offer it to the iPhone and other mobiles that won't be able to play their Flash video.
BTW, Saw a demo of Flash 10.1 on a NExus One with a 1GHz CPU. It was either 15fps of low-rez video or choppy low-rez video. Not looking good for Flash, but it was still a Beta. The problem is that most smartphones are 400GHz to 600GHz, not 1GHz.
Let's play F, Marry, KIll:
AngusYoung, TEKSTUD, jfanning?
Hmm... changing the game to Ignore, Ignore, Ignore:
AngusYoung, TEKSTUD, jfanning?
I think its actually pretty much above and beyond the call of duty for HULU to do this this early given the tiny (although growing) audience it will reach. Maybe its because the apple mobile devices ipad, iphone, ipod touch are high profile and the Hulu people want their product to be seen on them. Maybe its just good marketing for Hulu.
I just disable flash for the fun of it and tried to surf the web and its a disaster. Nothing works: CNN, Disney, MSNBC, almost all game sites like blizzard and blizzard armory, EA, most big corporation sites like sony, GM, Honda, ... and lots of sites have huge holes (video, special effects, ...). The only fun thing about it is ads are all disable.
You have to be one hell of a fanboy to think no flash support is a small thing. Web browsing on the Ipad is going to be a very frustrating experience with tons of sites that just wont work, at all.
Most of those sites work just fine, without Flash, in Mobile Safari. Some even have dedicated apps.
Most of those sites work just fine, without Flash, in Mobile Safari. Some even have dedicated apps.
How about getting some facts before posting.
I have an ipod touch and Safari and the sites STILL DONT WORK AT ALL. This may be acceptable on a 3 inch phone, but on an Ipad that is suppose to be BETTER at browsing the web than a laptop, are you kidding me...
I think its actually pretty much above and beyond the call of duty for HULU to do this this early given the tiny (although growing) audience it will reach. Maybe its because the apple mobile devices ipad, iphone, ipod touch are high profile and the Hulu people want their product to be seen on them. Maybe its just good marketing for Hulu.
regardless the reason - it's great!
It's not extremely early. YouTube was on the iPhone from day one, Hulu is already encoded in H.264, and nearly all viable smartphones OSes already support HTML5 video tags, H.264 codec and possibly H.264 HW acceleration. Because Flash can't deliver that means Hulu can't deliver their product to the fasting growing area of computing. That's a lot of ideal eyeballs, especially when you consider people are most likely to have their phone on them than a computer.
Comments
The fact that an Ipad Flash plug-in already exist but Apple wont allow it pretty much says it all on how controlling Apple really is. Apple is getting worst than China over internet censorship. The funniest thing about flash this week is Disney ceo approving the Ipad while Disney websites are so full of flash they won?t even work without it?
The Web is not going to change overnight on still unavailable hardware, when the Ipad ships, most websites won?t fully work in it. I will buy an Ipad only if it?s hackable so we can bypass the app-store or if Flash works when it ships.
1) No, Flash 10.1 is not ready for any mobile platform or Mac OS X.
2) If Flash works on iPhone OS then why doesn't Flash exist in the jailbreak community where it's beyond's Apple's "communist" hammer.
3) Apple isn't censoring any internet content. They'd have to block sites in Safari to do that.
4) Like most major companies with a web presence Disney added a mobile version which is ideal for a smaller display and weaker HW.
5) Overnight, of course not, but it will change. How does that happen? First you start off by pissing off people with a myopic view of the world.
6) A tablet with an ARM processor isn't supposed to be for everyone.
1) No, Flash 10.1 is not ready for any mobile platform or Mac OS X.
2) If Flash works on iPhone OS then why doesn't Flash exist in the jailbreak community where it's beyond's Apple's "communist" hammer.
3) Apple isn't censoring any internet content. They'd have to block sites in Safari to do that.
4) Like most major companies with a web presence Disney added a mobile version which is ideal for a smaller display and weaker HW.
5) Overnight, of course not, but it will change. How does that happen? First you start off by pissing off people with a myopic view of the world.
6) A tablet with an ARM processor isn't supposed to be for everyone.
....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000...717271784.html
and The Ipad is promising FULL internet access, not a 2x2 inch nerf mobile versions of it… I don’t want to have to download an app just to see a website…
....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000...717271784.html
So you concede to my points. I accept your defeat.
So you concede to my points. I accept your defeat.
lol, you obviously cant even read
and The Ipad is promising FULL internet access, not a 2x2 inch nerf mobile versions of it? I don?t want to have to download an app just to see a website?
Good news, Everybody, the iPad comes with Safari pre-installed.
PS: Flash does not an internet make. I can't view Active Server pages on any mobile device that isn't WinMo. I can't media that requires Real. Oh, these aren't players anymore? Guess what will happen to Flash for streaming video.
lol, you obviouse[sic] cant even read
Why not try posting an adult-like rebuttal to my clear and concise points instead of an ellipsis and hyperlink. I've read the article, but you're failing to understand that Flash for streaming video being overtaken by HTM5 isn't the same as HTML5 replacing Flash on the internet, as witnessed by your comment about Disney.
HTML5 contains no codecs. Browsers still have to support codecs for the HTML5 video tag to function. WebKit-based browsers support H.264 while Mozilla's Gecko(Firefox) supports Ogg. IE9 will likely support H.264.
Flash and H.264 aren't fighting. Flash is the player, the replacement is HTML5, Javascript and CSS. Flash players can stream H.264, too. It's how all the quality video players have encoding their videos for some time now.
The writing is on the wall. Flash for streaming video will lose marketshare from here on out. It's just too inefficient. On top of that, decoding higher and higher amounts of streaming video is not a light process for mobiles. The last thing they need is Flash robbing all the resources before the decoding can begin.
Adobe still can't make a decent version of Flash for the Mac. They still don't have Flash 10.1 with H.264 HW acceleration, like they have in the Beta version for Windows. Adobe also doesn't have Flash for all the other mobile platforms out there so this is not just a problem with OS X but with every mobile OS. Mozilla has disabled Flash 10.1 in Firefox Mobile on Maemo for Nokia devices because it makes browsing nearly impossible. That is before you even try to play video from Hulu and other such sites.
Flash is great in many ways, but playing video on mobiles is not one of them.
My point is that Apple is pushing H.264 and HTML5, but as a solution, they will still require proprietary software to stream video. I know that the group that owns the patents has extended the no fee use of H.264 for about five years. My guess is that is about how long it will take for the wide spread adoption of HTML5 and H.264 to take place. Then my guess is that the group will then say that all sites using H.264 must stop using the technology or pay their fee...
We should find out Monday or Tuesday what Smartphones are going to get the 10.1 version of Flash.
http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2010/...-free-tickets/
I suspect that most Android phones are going to get it... We will see if they can handle it.....
P.S. I did notice that when I put Flash player 10.1 beta on my Macbook Pro. It did lower the CPU usage about 30%. I am not sure if it had anything to do with hardware Video processor or not, but it is more efficient....
My point is that Apple is pushing H.264 and HTML5, but as a solution, they will still require proprietary software to stream video. I know that the group that owns the patents has extended the no fee use of H.264 for about five years. My guess is that is about how long it will take for the wide spread adoption of HTML5 and H.264 to take place. Then my guess is that the group will then say that all sites using H.264 must stop using the technology or pay their fee...
The player is proprietary on the iPhone, but it could play in the browser if Apple wanted it to. The design makes sense for a 3.5" phone. Don't confuse that optimal choice as a requirement. HTML5 and H.264 are supported by WebKit and HTML5 and Ogg are supported by Gecko.
We should find out Monday or Tuesday what Smartphones are going to get the 10.1 version of Flash.
http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2010/...-free-tickets/
I suspect that most Android phones are going to get it... We will see if they can handle it.....
Most, not all Android phones will get it, at least not right away. Then there is the elephant in the room: resource usage. I don't expect many phones to be able to play any Hulu or YouTube video in Flash.
People are confusing a move to lightweight open standards for video streaming with a move from Flash altogether. Flash is going nowhere for a very long time, but Flash will be losing marketshare in video streaming from here on out.
P.S. I did notice that when I put Flash player 10.1 beta on my Macbook Pro. It did lower the CPU usage about 30%. I am not sure if it had anything to do with hardware Video processor or not, but it is more efficient....
I use over 40% with Flash (10.0) video streaming at 480p from YouTube on a 2.4GHz MBP. With HTML5 Beta I use about 12%. The hit to a MBP battery alone even if you can stream it is severe. Imagine a tiny phone battery in comparison.
I tried Flash 10.1 beta when it first came out. It was unstable and without HW acceleration it was not worth it. I'll give it another try.
lol, you obviouse cant even read
Awesome.
"Invented" is not a synonym for "industry standard".
Again, what did Apple add to the development of the mouse to make it an industry standard?
5) Overnight, of course not, but it will change. How does that happen? First you start off by pissing off people with a myopic view of the world.
Very funny. Very true.
The only good use of Flash is Homestarrunner. There, I said it.
True.
Funnily enough, that's one of the few Flash sites that don't ramp up my MBPs fans.
Huh....
HTML 5.0 = World Wide (pun intended) standard, set by standards body.
Flash = Adobes proprietary toolset.
I do believe you are right about Apple supporting 'Industry Standards'....
Evidently, Flash performance on the OS X platform is so bad, that there are multiple browser plug-ins to help mitigate Flashes short comings. I don't know, I use 'no-script' in Firefox on my Mac, flash doesn't present a problem - I just avoid sites that require it.
Just because 'everyone' is doing something, doesn't make it right. :-)
No what makes it right is that it makes the most sense for the time being.
HTML 5 is not a standard, and there is no worldwide standards body. Even the W3C is not a standards body - it makes recommendations, but can't impose or enforce any standards (look at MSIE for an example). A lot of people on here get really riled up about standards! standards! when there really aren't many other than the ones that have evolved out of practice and usage.
HTML 5 is a proposed specification being written by The Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group (WHATWG), which is made up of people from Apple, Mozilla, and Opera. Combined these companies have less than half the browser market share, the firefox browser having the vast majority of this groups share - apple and opera being the 2 smallest mainstream browsers on the web.
Microsoft opted not to join this group and has not implemented html 5 recommendations into its browsers, which have the other half of the browser market share. They have not indicated that they even plan to in the future. Microsoft can, if not kill HTML 5, at least hold it hostage for a long time.
HTML 5 is barely implemented in the browsers that support it and not at all implemented in over half the browsers on the web. It is not a foregone conclusion, and its certainly not a standard. Web developers do not want to go back to developing and maintaining multiple sites for multiple browsers. Flash solved a lot of these problems especially when it comes to delivering video content. Flash works in all of the mainstream browsers (except the mobile version of safari), which means that content providers that want to deliver video can reach in the high 95+% of all browsers using flash. Right now, flash is still the best choice for delivering video on the web. You can reach the most people with the least development cost.
Hopefully HTML WILL BECOME more standard, at least in practice, because it is, in the end, a superior and more open than technologies like Flash and Silverlight. I just don't see this happening any time soon.
It's great that HULU is working on this - not being able to get sites like hulu and netflix is a deal-breaker for me getting an iPad.
It is sad that I was actually going to post something here, but the inordinate amount of trolls that need feeding of their fragile egos turned me off.
This site needs to do some policing of its boards. This is ridiculous.
seems as though you just did post something...
I tried to surf the same sites using Safari on my Ipod Touch. Here are a few examples:
Disney -> its detecting I am on a mobile device and its transfering me on there mobile site, which is a gimp version of the real thing.
CNN -> Safari abends... Second time its transfering me on there mobile site, which sucks big time
MSNBC -> its transfering me on there mobile site, again a gimp version of the real thing. They do have a nice app in the appstore
Sony -> Still dont display a thing, unusable Update: depends on what links you used to get there: there is a non-flash version of the site.
EA -> Mobile version only, not a bad site
Honda -> Still dont display a thing, unusable
Blizzard -> Limited functionality. Cant logging in account management or forums. Can search on armory but cant acces the result of the search like items, characters, ...
Online banking -> working (at least something works)
Online trading -> not working, cant logging
...mobile sites are a better web experience than a laptop? I dont think so
You have to be one hell of a fanboy to think no flash support is a small thing. Its not just about video, its much more that that, Flash is everywhere.
This thread is now ruining by the Three Trollketeers, which is too bad since Hulu moving to HTML5 video tags was a good conversation.We never even got into how long it would likely take them or if they'll make a dedicated iPad app to deliver their content in a more controlled manner. If they'll then offer it to the iPhone and other mobiles that won't be able to play their Flash video.
BTW, Saw a demo of Flash 10.1 on a NExus One with a 1GHz CPU. It was either 15fps of low-rez video or choppy low-rez video. Not looking good for Flash, but it was still a Beta. The problem is that most smartphones are 400GHz to 600GHz, not 1GHz.
Let's play F, Marry, KIll:
AngusYoung, TEKSTUD, jfanning?
Hmm... changing the game to Ignore, Ignore, Ignore:
AngusYoung, TEKSTUD, jfanning?
I think its actually pretty much above and beyond the call of duty for HULU to do this this early given the tiny (although growing) audience it will reach. Maybe its because the apple mobile devices ipad, iphone, ipod touch are high profile and the Hulu people want their product to be seen on them. Maybe its just good marketing for Hulu.
regardless the reason - it's great!
I just disable flash for the fun of it and tried to surf the web and its a disaster. Nothing works: CNN, Disney, MSNBC, almost all game sites like blizzard and blizzard armory, EA, most big corporation sites like sony, GM, Honda, ... and lots of sites have huge holes (video, special effects, ...). The only fun thing about it is ads are all disable.
You have to be one hell of a fanboy to think no flash support is a small thing. Web browsing on the Ipad is going to be a very frustrating experience with tons of sites that just wont work, at all.
Most of those sites work just fine, without Flash, in Mobile Safari. Some even have dedicated apps.
How about getting some facts before posting.
Most of those sites work just fine, without Flash, in Mobile Safari. Some even have dedicated apps.
How about getting some facts before posting.
I have an ipod touch and Safari and the sites STILL DONT WORK AT ALL. This may be acceptable on a 3 inch phone, but on an Ipad that is suppose to be BETTER at browsing the web than a laptop, are you kidding me...
I have an ipod touch and Safari and the sites STILL DONT WORK AT ALL. Fanboy...
Sounds like user error. Those sites work fine on my iPod Touch.
I think its actually pretty much above and beyond the call of duty for HULU to do this this early given the tiny (although growing) audience it will reach. Maybe its because the apple mobile devices ipad, iphone, ipod touch are high profile and the Hulu people want their product to be seen on them. Maybe its just good marketing for Hulu.
regardless the reason - it's great!
It's not extremely early. YouTube was on the iPhone from day one, Hulu is already encoded in H.264, and nearly all viable smartphones OSes already support HTML5 video tags, H.264 codec and possibly H.264 HW acceleration. Because Flash can't deliver that means Hulu can't deliver their product to the fasting growing area of computing. That's a lot of ideal eyeballs, especially when you consider people are most likely to have their phone on them than a computer.