Inside Apple's iPad: Multitasking

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  • Reply 201 of 285
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post
    Exhibit A: Advanced Task Killer - Android
    Such a well governed system that 3rd-party apps for Android and WebOS had to be created to deal with the complete lack of effort made to regulate the way backgrounding occurs. \



    Well, iPhone has Free Memory app to free memory so apps can run and this doesn't implies that Apple doesn't has any rule for dealing with memory or it has an anarchical system.



    If you go to Android forum you will read that these apps are not needed in reality.
  • Reply 202 of 285
    gwydiongwydion Posts: 1,083member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I don't know how one can grow a thicker skin, but several need to find a way. The mods aren't here to coddle or to replace your parents for the thinskinned. They are hear to enforce the very limited regulations of this site. They are allowed to make to comments and disagree with people just like everyone else. They even make comments about the quality of the articles. They've been chosen because of their long standing and objective replies. That does not mean they are here to babysit you, care about you or agree with you.



    Objective replies like insulting saying that you doesn't understand, you don't know how to read, etc.



    Perhaps those moderator are the ones who has to grow
  • Reply 203 of 285
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I think multitasking is coming, but an intelligent method that others smartphones will have to follow.



    I can't believe that people are still missing this but the multitasking is already there. It isn't exposed to user apps but that should be seen as a temporary problem. What no one seems to want to deal with is that iPhones really haven't had the hardware to support multitasking many apps. The biggest short coming isn't processor speed but rather the lack of RAM. This demand for RAM is partially due to the thick And rich Frameworks and partly due to a number of Apple apps always multitasking.



    What I think you are alluding to above with your 'intelligent method' method comment is the GUI interface to that multitasking capability. That will be most interesting to see especially on iPad as there are many possible approaches including a more Mac OS like dock. As to others following what ever Apple comes up with I truely doubt it as this is something that is easy to come up with on your own.



    Quote:

    Hopefully that means you'll no longer be posting your irrational vitriol here when I get back from vacation.
    PS: Which Android smartphone is shipping with Flash 10.1?







    Many do and most that do aren't complaining that Apple isn't offering pointless multitasking anarchy to the non-technical users Ã* la Android and WebOS.



    I'm a proud iPhone owner and user but I really cringe when I see statements like the above as frankly it at best leaves you looking uninformed. Multitasking isn't pointless as iPhone clearly demonstrates with the multitasking of Apple apps. It will be very useful to users and their selected apps when there is hardware to support it properly.



    What you seem to do here is to dismiss all the varying needs of iPhone users no matter the circumstance. That is pretty bad as even the current app inventory has a few apps that would benefit from multitasking. What is or isn't multitasked should be under user control.

    Quote:



    PS: Don't listen to AngusYoung's FUD about blocking your account. Only a few prominent iPhone hackers have had their App Store accounts blocked, they have not blocked the millions who are running jailbroken iPhones. Only chicken little rumours at this point, but Apple is going directly after those affecting the App Store security, not those jailbreaking. They are also trying to get jailbreaking a violation of the DMCA but you'll hear plenty about that well before it actually becomes law, if possible.



    err idnt it already a violation? As a potential developer I support them in this regard because those messing with app store security impact developers the most. There is a massive difference between jailbreaking and a theft of apps.





    Dave
  • Reply 204 of 285
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I don't know how one can grow a thicker skin, but several need to find a way. The mods aren't here to coddle or to replace your parents.



    They are hear to enforce the very limited regulations of this site. They are allowed to make to comments and disagree with people just like everyone else.



    They even make comments about the quality of the articles. They've been chosen because of their long standing residence and objective replies. That does not mean they are here to babysit you, care about you or agree with you. [/FONT]



    Totally agree. Insulting users is another thing, however.
  • Reply 205 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post


    Give me a break. The iPhone has almost the same specs (with a larger hard drive) than my 10-year old Dell and that could multitask. Apple could very well develop a better system than the Pre for memory management.



    This idea that their is not enough memory or battery life is garbage. It has already been shown in tests that, with a jailbroken 3GS, someone could have 5 apps running in the background with no noticeable lag. It can run with lag 10-12 apps (some games included) in the background. Check out the justanotheriphoneblog's testing of Multifl0w. If you are running something like iStat on your 3GS, check out the memory usage. You will find that you are using very little of the 256MB of RAM it has.



    The next-gen iPhone is bound to have similar specs to the Nexus One which would have a 1.0Ghz dual-core processor with 512mb of RAM. This would make the situation even more ridiculous. I'd like to hear Apple's excuse this year for not having multitasking. One would have to believe that the whole reason that they've developed their own chips is for better battery life considering the A4's clock speed is the same as the Nexus One. Battery can no longer be an excuse.



    Take a step back, a deep breath and consider the possibility that Apple is selling the device that they want to sell. It is possible that they feel that allowing for unrestricted multitasking leads to an inferior user experience (obviously I'm just guessing). If multitasking is a deciding issue for you then it is possible (likely?) that the iPhone is not the device for you. Confusion is a major issue for many people who can be smarter than either you or me but utterly uninterested in detailed knowledge of computing devices. As an example from another market consider the possibility that perfectly intelligent people often have no interest in repairing or tinkering with the engine of an automobile. They just want to drive it and don't care for any mysterious surprises.



    In the computer market there weren't really any conceptual differences between a Mac and a PC. Maybe differences in details but they clearly came from the same family. It is quite possible that with Apple's entry into the mobile device market they have decided to make a rather bold statement that fundamental design errors were made in the past and they don't intend to duplicate them in a smaller form factor.
  • Reply 206 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post
    Exhibit A: Advanced Task Killer - Android

    Exhibit B: Reboot Scheduler - WebOS
    Such a well governed system that 3rd-party apps for Android and WebOS had to be created to deal with the complete lack of effort made to regulate the way backgrounding occurs. \



    Are you kidding me? The existing of an application proves that multitasking was implemented in wrong way?



    I'd like to repeat my question and hear you answer: have you ever read Android or WebOS SDK documentation related to this topic?
  • Reply 207 of 285
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I can't believe that people are still missing this but the multitasking is already there. It isn't exposed to user apps but that should be seen as a temporary problem. What no one seems to want to deal with is that iPhones really haven't had the hardware to support multitasking many apps. The biggest short coming isn't processor speed but rather the lack of RAM. This demand for RAM is partially due to the thick And rich Frameworks and partly due to a number of Apple apps always multitasking.



    The context of my posts shows that I'm well aware. I've even made clarifications that it's App Store apps that can't multi-tasking, not non-1st-party apps.



    I've also stated that I expect intelligent multi-tasking to come with v4.0 and that I think the 3GS will get support for it but not the original and 3G do to the 128MB RAM limitation, which the system uses about 60MB at start up.



    Quote:

    I'm a proud iPhone owner and user but I really cringe when I see statements like the above as frankly it at best leaves you looking uninformed. Multitasking isn't pointless as iPhone clearly demonstrates with the multitasking of Apple apps.



    I didn't say it was pointless. I said unregulated multitasking is. Having an app get closed when the system runs out of RAM is not an intelligent method. It has no place on a consumer device.[/QUOTE]



    Quote:

    What I think you are alluding to above with your 'intelligent method' method comment is the GUI interface to that multitasking capability. That will be most interesting to see especially on iPad as there are many possible approaches including a more Mac OS like dock. As to others following what ever Apple comes up with I truely doubt it as this is something that is easy to come up with on your own.



    Think about Push Notifications. Apple made an API so that devs can make applicable programs get notifications even when not running. This is absolutely brilliant,e specially for IM clients. Of course, most apps don't need this capability so most users only have a few of these in their settings.



    An intelligent method would be to do the same thing for backgrounding. Simply put, give the devs and APi that allows the applicable programs to run in the background with guidelines for the resources they can use. The user then can choose to turn on backgrounding and they can choose with of these apps will run in the background.
  • Reply 208 of 285
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post


    I've never read about cores if it is monocore. In every tech article when there is a CPU and a GPU they say processor, not core.



    But as he is trying with the term multitasking, perhaps he wants to redefine how people names processors and GPU+CPU couples







    I understand a little about mobile networks and if in an article about multitasking he wants to talk about that (I don't konw why) he has to be precise and in a GSM network you don't have all the time simultaneous voice and data.







    I have read it properly, thanks.



    Taking what you quoted in context (without ignoring the first part of the sentence), you will see that your quote simply indicated that the operating system (iPhone OS) is capable of taking advantage of multiple cores, not that the iPhone has a multicore CPU. The article never states that the iPhone has a multicore CPU and they keep bringing up multi-core because it is expected that the A4 chip in the iPad has a multi-core CPU and the article is about the iPad, not the iPhone, but the two share an OS. You did read the article wrong.



    Quote:

    The iPhone OS inside the iPhone, iPod touch and the iPad is not only capable of this style of preemptive multitasking, but also employs multiprocessing, which allows different tasks to run concurrently on different processor cores.



    I don't really understand the complaint about calling the GPU a core when dealing with with system on a chip design. I searched for "iPhone system on a chip" and the first link I clicked into said GPU core.



    Quote:

    Paired with this CPU is a PowerVR MBX-Lite GPU core.



  • Reply 209 of 285
    "Are you kidding me? The existing of an application proves that multitasking was implemented in wrong way?



    I'd like to repeat my question and hear you answer: have you ever read Android or WebOS SDK documentation related to this topic?"





    I would also like the answer to this question =P
  • Reply 210 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Think about Push Notifications. Apple made an API so that devs can make applicable programs get notifications even when not running. This is absolutely brilliant,e specially for IM clients.



    I'm afraid it's not brilliant at all. In fact, it's quite awful compared to the notification bar in Android which



    1. Does not intrude into whatever you are doing by display a dialog.

    2. Does not lose the previous notification when another another notification pops up

    3. Does not make you swipe through screens looking for badges

    4. Allows you to clear all the notifications at once.

    5. Shows you progress status of multiple background tasks (eg. app downloads)

    6. Is always displayed on all screens on all apps and can be pulled down like a shade revealing all the notifications.

    7. Allows you to respond to specific notifications.

    8. Allows you to add state based notifications that are not cleared when you clear transient notifications.

    9. ....
  • Reply 211 of 285
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by os2baba View Post


    I'm afraid it's not brilliant at all. In fact, it's quite awful compared to the notification bar in Android which



    1. Does not intrude into whatever you are doing by display a dialog.

    2. Does not lose the previous notification when another another notification pops up

    3. Does not make you swipe through screens looking for badges

    4. Allows you to clear all the notifications at once.

    5. Shows you progress status of multiple background tasks (eg. app downloads)

    6. Is always displayed on all screens on all apps and can be pulled down like a shade revealing all the notifications.

    7. Allows you to respond to specific notifications.

    8. Allows you to add state based notifications that are not cleared when you clear transient notifications.

    9. ....



    You are comparing the system notifications, not the push notifications service.
  • Reply 212 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    You are comparing the system notifications, not the push notifications service.



    Same thing on the Android. There is no difference.
  • Reply 213 of 285
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by os2baba View Post


    Same thing on the Android. There is no difference.



    Let's analyse this... I made a comparison to the API used in the PNS on the iPhone as a intelligent method for App Store apps as a model for making backgrounding of App Store apps intelligent on the iPhone. You followed up with an odd comment about system notifications. Once that was pointed out, you defended your initial post by stating Android also has a PNS despite that never being in question or a part of the conversation. WTH?!
  • Reply 214 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    Your viewpoint smacks of delusion.



    I take it no one knows sarcasm in the bastion of SRS APPLE BUSINESS
  • Reply 215 of 285
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by swinge View Post


    Cut / Copy / Paste is a perfect example... They waited ... For two years, ...., they waited until they got it right...



    What the heck took them so long?
  • Reply 216 of 285
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post




    The forum rules, linked on the bottom of every thread, say that you cannot be vulgar, hateful, or threatening. It doesn't say anything specific about being insulting, just about being hateful, vulgar, or threatening.







    That's true. However, the Posting Guidelines say:



    Ad-hominem attacks of forum members will not be tolerated. We understand that things get heated, but it helps to maintain a modicum of respect for the membership. Attack ideas, not people.



    http://forums.appleinsider.com/guidelines.html
  • Reply 217 of 285
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    The mods aren't here to coddle or to replace your parents.







    They are also not here to demonstrate disdain for forum users, flagrantly violating the Posting Guidelines at http://forums.appleinsider.com/guidelines.html
  • Reply 218 of 285
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    What the heck took them so long?



    You think it's so easy to create a new paradigm from scratch yet only iPhone OS has a complete copy/paste setup. Not Android. Not WebOS. Not BB. Not WinMo.



    If the developer who made the first 3rd-party app with copy/paste acknoledges the undertaking then why can't you?
  • Reply 219 of 285
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    Ad-hominem attacks of forum members will not be tolerated.



    Rules are made to be broken, so I think that personal attacks on vacuous twat-heads like iGenius should be tolerated. In fact, I think they should be encouraged. Add AgnesYoung and TekStub to the list too.
  • Reply 220 of 285
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    How do you expect to work on two apps at the same time on a 3.5" display?



    I have a 3rd party app running all the time in the background of my Nokia phone, it performs functionality based on the current location I am in, why do you assume someone has to use the interface on both applications at the same time?
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