As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Most Americans support it. I don't. I think there would be more debate if those of us who are opposed to the death penalty would lose the sanctimony. As far as that goes, Europeans frequently don't help either.
You're not seeing it. It's a big debate issue. Typically, as our political parties tend to polarize their opinion on everything (to the point of absurdity sometimes). As such the Repulbican ticket tends to be pro-death penalty, and the democratic side tends to be anti-death penalty. But it's not that clear-cut. Most americans do support it, but there is a lot of debate, and while most do support it, they tend to disagree as to what circumstances would warrant such a severe penalty.
Frankly, I'm generally against it, I have ahrd time wishing death on anyone. However in some of my more pragmatic moments I think it's more cost-effective to euthanize some people who simply have no remorse and pose a constant threat to escape or maim even those who keep them captive. It might be argued that in them most shameful cases, it's more merciful too. The only thing that keeps me for asking for bin Laden's head on a platter is that he might be seen as a martyr in the act. Imagine the treatment he would have if he's captured by the US (instead of the UN).
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are ignorant. (I love saying that to Europeans.)
I'm for it. If I have the right to defend my life and the lives of others with deadly force, then I can surely delegate that right of self-defense to the state. There are some people who don't deserve to live after what they've done, and I don't deserve to have to worry about meeting some of them on the street.
Sure, the BUSINESS of the death penalty is a racket, and it may not be applied "fairly" across races. Those are operational issues, and they're going to be hard to fix as long as the high crime rate among minorities keeps getting higher.
I'm in favour of it. I just think there need to be provisions in place to reverse the procedure should the guilty be cleared in the future. You know, DNA matches, etc.
Oh, wait a minute, you asked about Americans... nevermind.
Hehe, right on Scott! Let's turn this into a Europe Vs. The US debate again! That was precisly my intent. Nothing more satisfying than bashing a few uncultivated, uncivilized americans... (irony)...
My mom is Swedish. Before she came over here with my dad she was opposed to the death penalty. But after a while she saw all of the horrific crimes that occur here more than any european country. It is a necissary evil for those that choose to destroy other peoples lives. Serial killers, violent rapist, and so on. By taking someones life in cold murder you give up your right to your own in my opinion.
Ask yourself this. What if someone murdered your family and raped your daughter (if you have one.) And through the course of the investigation you found he had done this many times before to other innocent people. This is clearly a sick person who has no hope of rehabilitation, or to be able to live in society with others. Nor should any mercy be placed on their soul.
<strong>You're not seeing it. It's a big debate issue. Typically, as our political parties tend to polarize their opinion on everything (to the point of absurdity sometimes). As such the Repulbican ticket tends to be pro-death penalty, and the democratic side tends to be anti-death penalty. UN).</strong><hr></blockquote>
There's some truth to this but not much. Both Clinton and Gore were pro-death penalty. Arkansas even had an execution during the '92 primaries. Despite Jerry Brown's best efforts at moral grandstanding (btw, I supported Brown in '92 - Brown's victory that year in the CT primary was the last time Clinton lost anything) the issue was a nonstarter. If you can't light a fire over this issue during the Democrtic primaries, I'd say there is some ambivalence regarding the death penalty on the Democratic side too.
<strong>Hehe, right on Scott! Let's turn this into a Europe Vs. The US debate again! That was precisly my intent. Nothing more satisfying than bashing a few uncultivated, uncivilized americans... (irony)...</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is your idea of being civilized and cultivated? Like I said a couple of posts above this: Europeans don't help either.
I believe in it in certain siutations and don't in other situations. I think when it's something huge like Sept. 11th and like with the Oklahoma City bombing then the murderer should be killed. Otherwise I think life in jail is harsh enough.
In Norway, where I come from, you would more or less disqualify yourself from any intellectual conversation if you advocated the death penalty...</strong><hr></blockquote>
So? Stalin had more than his share of fans among intellectuals too.
I was surprised - I thought it was higher. It's about 2/3 in favor, down from 80% in the mid-90s.
When Dukakis was against it in 1988, and lost to George the First, Dems brought in Clinton in '92, who, during the campaign, went back to Arkansas to execute a retarded guy.
I think there's been a shift in the past several years due to DNA tests releasing lots of people who were convicted, some on death row.
It's too bad the Mumia case has become so popular, because he almost certainly did the crime. There are lots of cases where people have been convicted and then proven innocent.
Comments
BTW I wouldn't call myself a "strong supporter". But IMO there are many cases that demand it.
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are just not seeing it.
This is a very hotly debated topic.
I'm against it as well.
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Most Americans support it. I don't. I think there would be more debate if those of us who are opposed to the death penalty would lose the sanctimony. As far as that goes, Europeans frequently don't help either.
Frankly, I'm generally against it, I have ahrd time wishing death on anyone. However in some of my more pragmatic moments I think it's more cost-effective to euthanize some people who simply have no remorse and pose a constant threat to escape or maim even those who keep them captive. It might be argued that in them most shameful cases, it's more merciful too. The only thing that keeps me for asking for bin Laden's head on a platter is that he might be seen as a martyr in the act. Imagine the treatment he would have if he's captured by the US (instead of the UN).
<strong>As a european (no european countries have the death-penalty) it seems to be disturbingly little debate about this among americans... or am I just not seeing it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are ignorant. (I love saying that to Europeans.)
Sure, the BUSINESS of the death penalty is a racket, and it may not be applied "fairly" across races. Those are operational issues, and they're going to be hard to fix as long as the high crime rate among minorities keeps getting higher.
Oh, wait a minute, you asked about Americans... nevermind.
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
Hell No.
I support it, though.
My mom is Swedish. Before she came over here with my dad she was opposed to the death penalty. But after a while she saw all of the horrific crimes that occur here more than any european country. It is a necissary evil for those that choose to destroy other peoples lives. Serial killers, violent rapist, and so on. By taking someones life in cold murder you give up your right to your own in my opinion.
Ask yourself this. What if someone murdered your family and raped your daughter (if you have one.) And through the course of the investigation you found he had done this many times before to other innocent people. This is clearly a sick person who has no hope of rehabilitation, or to be able to live in society with others. Nor should any mercy be placed on their soul.
[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Falcon ]</p>
<strong>You're not seeing it. It's a big debate issue. Typically, as our political parties tend to polarize their opinion on everything (to the point of absurdity sometimes). As such the Repulbican ticket tends to be pro-death penalty, and the democratic side tends to be anti-death penalty. UN).</strong><hr></blockquote>
There's some truth to this but not much. Both Clinton and Gore were pro-death penalty. Arkansas even had an execution during the '92 primaries. Despite Jerry Brown's best efforts at moral grandstanding (btw, I supported Brown in '92 - Brown's victory that year in the CT primary was the last time Clinton lost anything) the issue was a nonstarter. If you can't light a fire over this issue during the Democrtic primaries, I'd say there is some ambivalence regarding the death penalty on the Democratic side too.
In Norway, where I come from, you would more or less disqualify yourself from any intellectual conversation if you advocated the death penalty...
Falcon: I might kill him in, but then I'm not the state or government am I?
<strong>Hehe, right on Scott! Let's turn this into a Europe Vs. The US debate again! That was precisly my intent. Nothing more satisfying than bashing a few uncultivated, uncivilized americans... (irony)...</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is your idea of being civilized and cultivated? Like I said a couple of posts above this: Europeans don't help either.
<strong>
In Norway, where I come from, you would more or less disqualify yourself from any intellectual conversation if you advocated the death penalty...</strong><hr></blockquote>
So? Stalin had more than his share of fans among intellectuals too.
<a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/inddeath_pen.asp"; target="_blank">http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/inddeath_pen.asp</A>;
I was surprised - I thought it was higher. It's about 2/3 in favor, down from 80% in the mid-90s.
When Dukakis was against it in 1988, and lost to George the First, Dems brought in Clinton in '92, who, during the campaign, went back to Arkansas to execute a retarded guy.
I think there's been a shift in the past several years due to DNA tests releasing lots of people who were convicted, some on death row.
It's too bad the Mumia case has become so popular, because he almost certainly did the crime. There are lots of cases where people have been convicted and then proven innocent.