WTF with this update, for real. I feel like more people are waiting on this update than usual, maybe it's just because I'm waiting it feels so nuts. But it seems there are dozens of people here and hundreds at Macrumors.com (which I never even heard about until this dang MBP update limbo). Also I feel like there are way more rumors this time around. Just look at macrumors.com or even AI. It's torture. A new rumor that seems to be very convincing that MBPs are coming out in a week or "any day now" comes out like every week since January!! This Apple secrecy crap is just lame for minor product updates.
Yeah, and I'm one of them. On 8 March, i will start to work and a laptop is necessary for this job. I've always had a PC but fell in love with the Macbook Pro some time ago. If Apple doesn't release its new MBP's before 8 march, I'm doomed to buy something else instead (which i absolutely don't want anymore -_-). I'm getting tired of waiting lol. I check these apple fansites almost every hour like a real freak to see if anything new showed up. I guess my only hope is next tuesday!
The Superdrive is just not very super anymore. As someone who works with music and photography, I really need to option to backup files to BD disc. Also, i have a large BD movie collection and i can't spare any hard drive space on my laptop for digital copies to fill it up. and i also have netflix. so i like to rent BD discs. digital copy or not. i need BD
Get rid of the optical drive altogether. Useless space waster. Use the space to make the laptop thinner, or install another SSD and extra memory. If you need to use an optical drive, buy and external. Taking up all that space and weight for a drive most of us hardly use is a waste.
Get rid of the optical drive altogether. Useless space waster. Use the space to make the laptop thinner, or install another SSD and extra memory. If you need to use an optical drive, buy and external. Taking up all that space and weight for a drive most of us hardly use is a waste.
No, no, no. Remove the optical drive and add battery. I want the laptop to last all day with no cables. 10 hours of battery life would be good.
I agree with the last comments : PLEASE APPLE REMOVE THE OPTICAL DRIVE ! It's useless, on a portable computer ! Make the PRO portable thinner and lighter !
And just why is the 13" MBP not "pro"? I really don't understand why Apple limits the pricing and options available on smaller models. The size of the models should not be related to price and the options available to the price. It's just a preference, and many people would like to spend more on a smaller model to get a capable yet portable machine.
I have spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out why they wouldn't offer the matte display option on the 13" model. I am convinced it is to get you to buy the more expensive machine. They make more money selling a 15" or 17" than they do the 13" model.
There is no other reason to not offer it on the most portable model. The model that most people will be lugging around with them and using in a variety of different lighting situations. It seems like a not so customer friendly decision, but I can't think of another reason they wouldn't offer it.
I agree with the last comments : PLEASE APPLE REMOVE THE OPTICAL DRIVE ! It's useless, on a portable computer ! Make the PRO portable thinner and lighter !
I want to keep it in unless it's so we can have a second drive and/or battery bay. a second bay for SSD would be cool espicially if OS X allowed us to use it as a super-huge cache, and/or to store frequently accessed system files (e.g. pieces of OS X) on it, and our user files on the HDD. Dude optical ain't going away for another decade. It's not because it's cheaper than flash. At this point...it's not! It's amazing what you can pick up for pocket change at any local Staples these days...32, even 64-gig flash drives. But the reason especially for MacBook PROs is that when you are on the road and come across a CD, you're going to want that optical drive. You won't be lugging an addon. SuperDrive will remain the same for another year or two at least. And I doubt Apple will ever add BluRay to its laptops.
Not unless it's so we can have a second drive and/or battery bay. a second bay for SSD would be cool esp. if OS X allowed us to use it as a super-huge cache, and/or to store frequently accessed system files (e.g. pieces of OS X) on it, and our user files on the HDD.
There is room for both and more, like an extra 5 inches on port side real estate.
Quote:
Dude optical ain't going away for another decade.
They are slower than NAND and HDDs. They use a lot more power. They are more prone to breaking since they have moving parts. The cost of a 640GB HDD is less than a Blu-ray Drive with 12x50GB or 25x25GB discs. The space needed for it is huge! Capacity isn't growing nearly as fast as HDD tech which isn't growing nearly as fast as NAND tech, which is gettin 3-bit tech (50% capacity increase) this year and the 32nm adding another 50% capacity increase top of that all for the same cost. SSDs already match 1.8" HDD capacities, 2.5" is growing and already exceed 2.5" drives for the same 7mm height, which will be new standard when the optical drive gets removed. I predict they will going away from Mac notebooks within 2 years. Most apps are DLed over a network, this does not exclude support for an external ODD if needed. Once this change happens it will be like the floppy drive, others will follow, but Apple isn't the first to go this route, just look at the HP Envys. How will you restore the OS? A cheap read-only 8GB SD card that is still worlds faster than any optical drive making an install happen in minutes.
[QUOTE=solipsism;1579548]There is room for both and more, like an extra 5 inches on port side real estate.
Cool pic. Oh I agree with everything you're saying solip and believe me I'm on your team. I think the main reason they'll remain is because a lot of stuff from the past two decades is still kicking around on CD and DVD. That's all I'm getting at. It's like VHS tapes which are just now fading away. DVD came out in the early 90s but took a while to replace VHS. Perhaps optical will fade out..I hope so.
Cool pic. Oh I agree with everything you're saying solip and believe me I'm on your team. I think the main reason they'll remain is because a lot of stuff from the past two decades is still kicking around on CD and DVD. That's all I'm getting at. It's like VHS tapes which are just now fading away. DVD came out in the early 90s but took a while to replace VHS. Perhaps optical will fade out..I hope so.
Jeez we just need those new MBPs now!
Remember, this is Apple. When they do something they tend to go all in. Now, with the ODD there is no reason to remove it from desktops at this point, at least not the iMacs and Mac Pros. Other vendors are doing it a little but I think Apple will get to that point when they make all Mac notebooks without ODDs, except for maybe the 17" MBP.
I'm hoping it's this year and it's more of a focus on the 15" MBPs to start with an introduction of a 15" plastic-unibody MacBook that is thicker with an ODD. I think Apple is too big and the space constraints aren't like they are for port like USB or mDP to require all machines to get the change right away.
I haven't needed the ODD in years. I really hope we'll see it gone in the next revision. that plus, a GPS chip for FindMyMac on MM, dynamic switchable graphics and USB3.0.
And just why is the 13" MBP not "pro"? I really don't understand why Apple limits the pricing and options available on smaller models. The size of the models should not be related to price and the options available to the price. It's just a preference, and many people would like to spend more on a smaller model to get a capable yet portable machine.
Hello, space... A 13" MPB is physically smaller than it's larger brethren. This means that there are less materials involved in the manufacture of the case, display, etc., and hence a lower price for a comparable unit. The limited options would also be related to space. Less space on the motherboard to put the second graphics chip, less battery space and heat dissipation room both lead to a lower speed processor selection.
I don't think Apple is imposing artificial limits on the 13" MBP options, it's simply a matter of what they can fit into the machine. Even if they could fit the fastest processor, second graphics chip, etc., would there be enough market demand to build such a 13" monster? My guess is that most people who can afford and demand those extras are also wanting the larger display of the 15" or 17" models.
Oops... Now I realize that you were mostly referring to the matte finish. Yeah, you got me there. Personally, I don't want the matte finish, but if people want to pay for it it should be a difficult option for Apple to provide.
So the shareholder meeting went great, AAPL has 40 billion in cash and only 25% of their revenue is from selling Macs. All Macs put together! Jeez I guess they don't need to worry about the MBP. I wonder if maybe they really won't update until April or something. I didn't realize Macs were such a tiny part of their revenue, I knew it was not the majority but not that small. Damnit I just need a new laptop this is nuts. \
So the shareholder meeting went great, AAPL has 40 billion in cash and only 25% of their revenue is from selling Macs. All Macs put together! Jeez I guess they don't need to worry about the MBP. I wonder if maybe they really won't update until April or something. I didn't realize Macs were such a tiny part of their revenue, I knew it was not the majority but not that small. Damnit I just need a new laptop this is nuts. \
I wouldn't think that is the reason. That is a lot of revenue no matter how you slice it. Since Arrandale should be high supply now for Apple's needs there is something else likely holding it back. It might be some marketing maneuvering but I hope that there are some major redesigns coming, hence the extra wait, but in no way do I see Apple foregoing their Mac line. If not for Macs the best part of the iDevice ecosystem fails apart for many of us users and Apple knows that.
Even if they could fit the fastest processor, second graphics chip, etc., would there be enough market demand to build such a 13" monster? My guess is that most people who can afford and demand those extras are also wanting the larger display of the 15" or 17" models.
This is exactly what I mean, actually. Apple is deliberately not including, say, more powerful processors in the 13" model compared to the 15" model not because of space or thermal constraints (since the processors have the same TDP and are pin-compatible), but presumably because they either don't think people who want smaller machines want as much power, or because they want people who want more power to spend more money on the bigger machines. But there are plenty of people who would rather spend more money to get the same performance in a smaller machine because they value portability. The demand is there.
This is exactly what I mean, actually. Apple is deliberately not including, say, more powerful processors in the 13" model compared to the 15" model not because of space or thermal constraints (since the processors have the same TDP and are pin-compatible), but presumably because they either don't think people who want smaller machines want as much power, or because they want people who want more power to spend more money on the bigger machines. But there are plenty of people who would rather spend more money to get the same performance in a smaller machine because they value portability. The demand is there.
There would be some buyers who find that ideal, myself included, but i don't see it as a good marketing move or a viable product category to use the fastest processor of the same TDP that is in the 17" MBP in the 13" which costs considerably more per chip, yet not be able add a dedicated GPU or other parts because of the space constraints. It's just isn't a great business move.
I don't think it's quite time yet to phase out the ODD. There's still a plethora of media out there that people own on physical discs. Although it's use is diminishing, it's still useful for the occasional software installation, media transfer or for gaming sessions (although that last one is a concept alien to some people here).
So the shareholder meeting went great, AAPL has 40 billion in cash and only 25% of their revenue is from selling Macs. All Macs put together! Jeez I guess they don't need to worry about the MBP. I wonder if maybe they really won't update until April or something. I didn't realize Macs were such a tiny part of their revenue, I knew it was not the majority but not that small. Damnit I just need a new laptop this is nuts. \
This is recent. As little as a year ago, it was 50%. While Mac sales are rising, they were hurt by the recession. If not for that, Apple would have sold about 3 million more Macs last year, going by the past few years sales increases in percent.
Now, iPhones and Touches are rising in sales faster that the computers.
This is exactly what I mean, actually. Apple is deliberately not including, say, more powerful processors in the 13" model compared to the 15" model not because of space or thermal constraints (since the processors have the same TDP and are pin-compatible), but presumably because they either don't think people who want smaller machines want as much power, or because they want people who want more power to spend more money on the bigger machines. But there are plenty of people who would rather spend more money to get the same performance in a smaller machine because they value portability. The demand is there.
I dont think there are a lot of people who would spend that. The 13" is a way to get into the pro line at a lesser price.
I dont think there are a lot of people who would spend that. The 13" is a way to get into the pro line at a lesser price.
So the lower end 13" can have slower processors and no discrete GPU, while the higher end 13" can have faster processors and discrete GPU. Basically, have the 13" cover the same range in terms of price and performance as the 15", but shifted downward a bit due to the limitations of the formfactor. Right now the 13"'s price/performance range is not just shifted downward, but the top of the range is chopped off because Apple doesn't think people looking for portable machines want that much performance. This I would like to see changed with the refresh.
optical drives are going the same way as ZIPdrives. At work were we have sitelicenes for many programs I install them from a USB stick not bothering with burning CDs and DVDs.
At home I do listen to both CDs and LPs but as far as computers go I hardly ever use the optical drives
It is also high time to move to the i3 and i5 CPUs as other vendors allready have them out on the market
Comments
WTF with this update, for real. I feel like more people are waiting on this update than usual, maybe it's just because I'm waiting it feels so nuts. But it seems there are dozens of people here and hundreds at Macrumors.com (which I never even heard about until this dang MBP update limbo). Also I feel like there are way more rumors this time around. Just look at macrumors.com or even AI. It's torture. A new rumor that seems to be very convincing that MBPs are coming out in a week or "any day now" comes out like every week since January!! This Apple secrecy crap is just lame for minor product updates.
Yeah, and I'm one of them. On 8 March, i will start to work and a laptop is necessary for this job. I've always had a PC but fell in love with the Macbook Pro some time ago. If Apple doesn't release its new MBP's before 8 march, I'm doomed to buy something else instead (which i absolutely don't want anymore -_-). I'm getting tired of waiting lol. I check these apple fansites almost every hour like a real freak to see if anything new showed up. I guess my only hope is next tuesday!
Yes, You are missing .. BLU-RAY
The Superdrive is just not very super anymore. As someone who works with music and photography, I really need to option to backup files to BD disc. Also, i have a large BD movie collection and i can't spare any hard drive space on my laptop for digital copies to fill it up. and i also have netflix. so i like to rent BD discs. digital copy or not. i need BD
Get rid of the optical drive altogether. Useless space waster. Use the space to make the laptop thinner, or install another SSD and extra memory. If you need to use an optical drive, buy and external. Taking up all that space and weight for a drive most of us hardly use is a waste.
Get rid of the optical drive altogether. Useless space waster. Use the space to make the laptop thinner, or install another SSD and extra memory. If you need to use an optical drive, buy and external. Taking up all that space and weight for a drive most of us hardly use is a waste.
No, no, no. Remove the optical drive and add battery. I want the laptop to last all day with no cables. 10 hours of battery life would be good.
And just why is the 13" MBP not "pro"? I really don't understand why Apple limits the pricing and options available on smaller models. The size of the models should not be related to price and the options available to the price. It's just a preference, and many people would like to spend more on a smaller model to get a capable yet portable machine.
I have spent a fair amount of time trying to figure out why they wouldn't offer the matte display option on the 13" model. I am convinced it is to get you to buy the more expensive machine. They make more money selling a 15" or 17" than they do the 13" model.
There is no other reason to not offer it on the most portable model. The model that most people will be lugging around with them and using in a variety of different lighting situations. It seems like a not so customer friendly decision, but I can't think of another reason they wouldn't offer it.
I agree with the last comments : PLEASE APPLE REMOVE THE OPTICAL DRIVE ! It's useless, on a portable computer ! Make the PRO portable thinner and lighter !
I want to keep it in unless it's so we can have a second drive and/or battery bay. a second bay for SSD would be cool espicially if OS X allowed us to use it as a super-huge cache, and/or to store frequently accessed system files (e.g. pieces of OS X) on it, and our user files on the HDD. Dude optical ain't going away for another decade. It's not because it's cheaper than flash. At this point...it's not! It's amazing what you can pick up for pocket change at any local Staples these days...32, even 64-gig flash drives. But the reason especially for MacBook PROs is that when you are on the road and come across a CD, you're going to want that optical drive. You won't be lugging an addon. SuperDrive will remain the same for another year or two at least. And I doubt Apple will ever add BluRay to its laptops.
Not unless it's so we can have a second drive and/or battery bay. a second bay for SSD would be cool esp. if OS X allowed us to use it as a super-huge cache, and/or to store frequently accessed system files (e.g. pieces of OS X) on it, and our user files on the HDD.
There is room for both and more, like an extra 5 inches on port side real estate.
Dude optical ain't going away for another decade.
They are slower than NAND and HDDs. They use a lot more power. They are more prone to breaking since they have moving parts. The cost of a 640GB HDD is less than a Blu-ray Drive with 12x50GB or 25x25GB discs. The space needed for it is huge! Capacity isn't growing nearly as fast as HDD tech which isn't growing nearly as fast as NAND tech, which is gettin 3-bit tech (50% capacity increase) this year and the 32nm adding another 50% capacity increase top of that all for the same cost. SSDs already match 1.8" HDD capacities, 2.5" is growing and already exceed 2.5" drives for the same 7mm height, which will be new standard when the optical drive gets removed. I predict they will going away from Mac notebooks within 2 years. Most apps are DLed over a network, this does not exclude support for an external ODD if needed. Once this change happens it will be like the floppy drive, others will follow, but Apple isn't the first to go this route, just look at the HP Envys. How will you restore the OS? A cheap read-only 8GB SD card that is still worlds faster than any optical drive making an install happen in minutes.
Jeez we just need those new MBPs now!
Cool pic. Oh I agree with everything you're saying solip and believe me I'm on your team. I think the main reason they'll remain is because a lot of stuff from the past two decades is still kicking around on CD and DVD. That's all I'm getting at. It's like VHS tapes which are just now fading away. DVD came out in the early 90s but took a while to replace VHS. Perhaps optical will fade out..I hope so.
Jeez we just need those new MBPs now!
Remember, this is Apple. When they do something they tend to go all in. Now, with the ODD there is no reason to remove it from desktops at this point, at least not the iMacs and Mac Pros. Other vendors are doing it a little but I think Apple will get to that point when they make all Mac notebooks without ODDs, except for maybe the 17" MBP.
I'm hoping it's this year and it's more of a focus on the 15" MBPs to start with an introduction of a 15" plastic-unibody MacBook that is thicker with an ODD. I think Apple is too big and the space constraints aren't like they are for port like USB or mDP to require all machines to get the change right away.
I haven't needed the ODD in years. I really hope we'll see it gone in the next revision. that plus, a GPS chip for FindMyMac on MM, dynamic switchable graphics and USB3.0.
And just why is the 13" MBP not "pro"? I really don't understand why Apple limits the pricing and options available on smaller models. The size of the models should not be related to price and the options available to the price. It's just a preference, and many people would like to spend more on a smaller model to get a capable yet portable machine.
Hello, space... A 13" MPB is physically smaller than it's larger brethren. This means that there are less materials involved in the manufacture of the case, display, etc., and hence a lower price for a comparable unit. The limited options would also be related to space. Less space on the motherboard to put the second graphics chip, less battery space and heat dissipation room both lead to a lower speed processor selection.
I don't think Apple is imposing artificial limits on the 13" MBP options, it's simply a matter of what they can fit into the machine. Even if they could fit the fastest processor, second graphics chip, etc., would there be enough market demand to build such a 13" monster? My guess is that most people who can afford and demand those extras are also wanting the larger display of the 15" or 17" models.
Oops... Now I realize that you were mostly referring to the matte finish. Yeah, you got me there. Personally, I don't want the matte finish, but if people want to pay for it it should be a difficult option for Apple to provide.
So the shareholder meeting went great, AAPL has 40 billion in cash and only 25% of their revenue is from selling Macs. All Macs put together! Jeez I guess they don't need to worry about the MBP. I wonder if maybe they really won't update until April or something. I didn't realize Macs were such a tiny part of their revenue, I knew it was not the majority but not that small. Damnit I just need a new laptop this is nuts.
I wouldn't think that is the reason. That is a lot of revenue no matter how you slice it. Since Arrandale should be high supply now for Apple's needs there is something else likely holding it back. It might be some marketing maneuvering but I hope that there are some major redesigns coming, hence the extra wait, but in no way do I see Apple foregoing their Mac line. If not for Macs the best part of the iDevice ecosystem fails apart for many of us users and Apple knows that.
Even if they could fit the fastest processor, second graphics chip, etc., would there be enough market demand to build such a 13" monster? My guess is that most people who can afford and demand those extras are also wanting the larger display of the 15" or 17" models.
This is exactly what I mean, actually. Apple is deliberately not including, say, more powerful processors in the 13" model compared to the 15" model not because of space or thermal constraints (since the processors have the same TDP and are pin-compatible), but presumably because they either don't think people who want smaller machines want as much power, or because they want people who want more power to spend more money on the bigger machines. But there are plenty of people who would rather spend more money to get the same performance in a smaller machine because they value portability. The demand is there.
This is exactly what I mean, actually. Apple is deliberately not including, say, more powerful processors in the 13" model compared to the 15" model not because of space or thermal constraints (since the processors have the same TDP and are pin-compatible), but presumably because they either don't think people who want smaller machines want as much power, or because they want people who want more power to spend more money on the bigger machines. But there are plenty of people who would rather spend more money to get the same performance in a smaller machine because they value portability. The demand is there.
There would be some buyers who find that ideal, myself included, but i don't see it as a good marketing move or a viable product category to use the fastest processor of the same TDP that is in the 17" MBP in the 13" which costs considerably more per chip, yet not be able add a dedicated GPU or other parts because of the space constraints. It's just isn't a great business move.
So the shareholder meeting went great, AAPL has 40 billion in cash and only 25% of their revenue is from selling Macs. All Macs put together! Jeez I guess they don't need to worry about the MBP. I wonder if maybe they really won't update until April or something. I didn't realize Macs were such a tiny part of their revenue, I knew it was not the majority but not that small. Damnit I just need a new laptop this is nuts.
This is recent. As little as a year ago, it was 50%. While Mac sales are rising, they were hurt by the recession. If not for that, Apple would have sold about 3 million more Macs last year, going by the past few years sales increases in percent.
Now, iPhones and Touches are rising in sales faster that the computers.
This is exactly what I mean, actually. Apple is deliberately not including, say, more powerful processors in the 13" model compared to the 15" model not because of space or thermal constraints (since the processors have the same TDP and are pin-compatible), but presumably because they either don't think people who want smaller machines want as much power, or because they want people who want more power to spend more money on the bigger machines. But there are plenty of people who would rather spend more money to get the same performance in a smaller machine because they value portability. The demand is there.
I dont think there are a lot of people who would spend that. The 13" is a way to get into the pro line at a lesser price.
I dont think there are a lot of people who would spend that. The 13" is a way to get into the pro line at a lesser price.
So the lower end 13" can have slower processors and no discrete GPU, while the higher end 13" can have faster processors and discrete GPU. Basically, have the 13" cover the same range in terms of price and performance as the 15", but shifted downward a bit due to the limitations of the formfactor. Right now the 13"'s price/performance range is not just shifted downward, but the top of the range is chopped off because Apple doesn't think people looking for portable machines want that much performance. This I would like to see changed with the refresh.
At home I do listen to both CDs and LPs but as far as computers go I hardly ever use the optical drives
It is also high time to move to the i3 and i5 CPUs as other vendors allready have them out on the market