In England, the Telegraph is known as the "house paper" of the Conservative party. If you follow it for very long, you start seeing the slant in much of what they write. They are more concerned with pushing a political point of view than in reporting news accurately. It is similar to Fox News in the US.
.
The Telegraph is no worse than any of the other papers (such as the Guardian).
They pretty much all mix fact with fiction, as it's much easier to spread nonsense if there is at least a small element of truth in the mix.
Infact I would give The Telegraph an above average reality rating. Comparatively speaking. And for the record, I'm not defending this particular article.
In general I hate british news, and I can't stand half the people in this stupid country either because they readily believe the nonsense that they are spoon fed.
Worse: Apple would still be the only one accused of these problems by the press, while all the other companies would fly under the radar.
You guys have got to be kidding. Apple can do many things. The one thing it can't is fly under the radar, on any subject. This is not a stealth company.
Apple is special. Being held to a higher standard simply comes with the territory.
Whining is what those who don't understand this are doing.
The 'average profit margin' in the computer industry is, as you well know, pathetically low, close to zero. I would dread the day that Apple reverts to the industry mean, since I believe (and evidence shows) that a company such as Apple with its higher margins is far more likely to get us to the world that you want than the 'average' computer maker.
I actually agree with you here. If you look at my posting history you will see I nearly always defend Apple's premium pricing.
One of the reasons for that is labor. Apple spends more on engineering labor because it does more in-house. People who constantly whine about the cost of Apple products don't understand that if they had their wish, a lot of Apple talent would have to be fired, and the products would start to show it.
Well, I happen to think manufacturing labor is also important. Factory workers are humans too. I cannot fully enjoy my Mac or my iPhone if I know sweatshop labor was required to build it.
Apple said the child workers are now no longer being used, or are no longer underage. "In each of the three facilities, we required a review of all employment records for the year as well as a complete analysis of the hiring process to clarify how underage people had been able to gain employment," Apple said, in an annual report on its suppliers.
Issues found were related to personal protective equipment (PPE) use (mainly earplugs), first aid kit stocks and fire safety. Despite employees being required to use this equipment a small number were choosing not to do so. Factories were advised to increase employees’ awareness of the benefits of using PPE, improve the process for filling first aid kits, and ensure adequate number of trained people with first aid and fire safety skills.
All findings have an action plan in place and those factories with an action plan have been scheduled for a reassessment during the first half of 2009 to ensure full compliance with the framework.
It didn't help much with this, did it?
Quote:
Taiwanese Apple, Nokia supplier admits more employees were poisoned
26 February 2010 13:53 by James "Dela" Delahunty
A Taiwanese company that provides displays and electronics components for Nokia, Apple and others has confirmed that more employees than previously thought were poisoned by a chemical used in the manufacturing processes at the plant. Last summer, it emerged that between 47 and 49 employees were sickened by exposure to n-hexane, and now a Wintek spokesman admitted the figure is actually 62.
Children don't have the physics, knowledge or experience of an adult, and therefore children enjoy distinct rights to protection.
Employment processes must be designed to strive that no children are working in factories. Age of the candidate must always be verified prior to recruitment. Young workers may be employed according to local legislation to support youth employment. Young worker refers to any person at least the age of 15 but under 18, or older if so specified in local legislation. However, young workers must not be exposed to any hazardous work, overtime work or nightshifts, as per ILO recommendations.
You either believe free market capitalism or you don't. No one is talking about 'worshipping' it.
Hey "Bobby Business Boy," there are as many variations of "free" market capitalism as countries on the planet and states in the U.S. It isn't something to "believe in" it is a general economic model based upon many (sometimes contradictory) values.
There is no problem in regulating it and in calling on those who act as if it the final arbiter of good on Earth - that would be "worshipping" it. Look at all the Ayn Rand crowd who are on their every 20-year upswing, and you'll see plenty of objectivist, capitalism worshippers.
i have trouble with its usage and in what context //
i guess i have a kind of mental block
A straw man is someone or something that you invent yourself ... as if you were making it out of straw, metaphorically. Instead of arguing against a real issue, you create an exaggerated representation of an opinion or a totally made up one that you can attack and look reasonable in attacking it while ignoring the real issue.
You either believe free market capitalism or you don't.
That's only true to someone with a black and white view of things.
100% free market capitalism is called anarchy, and would without a doubt result in things like baby milk laced with melanin and other widespread commercial fraud. It would also result in every single item being manufactured overseas, and virtually no market for American products. On the other hand, 100% state controlled commerce is pure communism, and the only such state that exists in the world today is North Korea. China is not even close to anti-free market capitalism.
What the US, and every state needs is free-market to a degree.
To what degree is what we disagree on.
Not simply some ignorant "free-market good, tariffs and regulations bad" attitude.
In England, the Telegraph is known as the "house paper" of the Conservative party. If you follow it for very long, you start seeing the slant in much of what they write. They are more concerned with pushing a political point of view than in reporting news accurately. It is similar to Fox News in the US.
Since Apple in this case is doing something usually associated with liberals, i.e. protecting the underdogs, the Telegraph will tend to slant their reporting to make Apple look bad. If Apple instead had taken a position that it's not the job of business to protect people, it is the job of business to make profits, then the Telegraph would have slanted their language to laud Apple.
WOW that took action against labour violations including working 7 days in a row and working over allowed hours.
What about over here. It is common practice in the stores to be put on 7 day shifts without a break and to work well over 38 hours without getting paid a single penny of overtime. Also breaks are non-existent and those who do take breaks (by force) are seen as being militant despite being legally entitled.
At Christmas several employees were on 11 day stretches and not by choice! 7 day stretches are rare but do happen but 6 day stretches are very common and most full time retail employees will be doing them on a regular basis.....bad.....really bad!
Perhaps we need a report into the labour violations of Apple WORLDWIDE not just in China.
Think twice before applying to work for Apple.
And Apple if your reading this..... Take a long hard look at how your staff (i have friends who work for you) are being treated in the US and UK before casting judgement on companies in China.
You'd have to be a manipulated moron to believe that humanity can survive on a toxified, deforested planet.
I am an environmentalist not despite humanity but because of it. The Earth, left to itself, will simply become a burnt cinder in a couple of billion years. By then we could be living in half the galaxy.
But if the Earth becomes a treeless toxic dump in a couple of hundred years, as we are now on a path to, the only place our civilization will go to is a well-deserved early grave.
Treeless? Who wants a treeless Earth?
Oh wait, Al Gore does! He thinks dying Trees give off too much CO2, so we should cut them all down and prevent them from decomposing.
Is this the type of "Environmentalist" you are? The kind that wants to punish and tax humanity based on fraud?
Why is possibly good marketing necessarily a 'ploy?' Why is pursuit of energy efficiency 'sick and backward?'
More generally, if you can do well by doing good, what is wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with any of this. I just pointed out that Apple shoves Greenery in your face to make you feel guilty about buying something else. I was also just pointing out that to them, its not about the earth, its about selling computers. That shouldn't be misunderstood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
You live in NJ and ask this question? Have you driven down the NJ Turnpike, and looked on either side?!
Small, insignificant fraction of what used to exist. Damn, People amaze me with their know-it-all attitudes. They drive past half a dozen smoke stacks and think they're seeing "industry".
Comments
Maybe if you took 10 seconds and looked it up, it might have saved you the post.
i did
i have also seen it used a lot lately..
i have trouble with its usage and in what context //
i guess i have a kind of mental block
In England, the Telegraph is known as the "house paper" of the Conservative party. If you follow it for very long, you start seeing the slant in much of what they write. They are more concerned with pushing a political point of view than in reporting news accurately. It is similar to Fox News in the US.
.
The Telegraph is no worse than any of the other papers (such as the Guardian).
They pretty much all mix fact with fiction, as it's much easier to spread nonsense if there is at least a small element of truth in the mix.
Infact I would give The Telegraph an above average reality rating. Comparatively speaking. And for the record, I'm not defending this particular article.
In general I hate british news, and I can't stand half the people in this stupid country either because they readily believe the nonsense that they are spoon fed.
Worse: Apple would still be the only one accused of these problems by the press, while all the other companies would fly under the radar.
You guys have got to be kidding. Apple can do many things. The one thing it can't is fly under the radar, on any subject. This is not a stealth company.
Apple is special. Being held to a higher standard simply comes with the territory.
Whining is what those who don't understand this are doing.
The 'average profit margin' in the computer industry is, as you well know, pathetically low, close to zero. I would dread the day that Apple reverts to the industry mean, since I believe (and evidence shows) that a company such as Apple with its higher margins is far more likely to get us to the world that you want than the 'average' computer maker.
I actually agree with you here. If you look at my posting history you will see I nearly always defend Apple's premium pricing.
One of the reasons for that is labor. Apple spends more on engineering labor because it does more in-house. People who constantly whine about the cost of Apple products don't understand that if they had their wish, a lot of Apple talent would have to be fired, and the products would start to show it.
Well, I happen to think manufacturing labor is also important. Factory workers are humans too. I cannot fully enjoy my Mac or my iPhone if I know sweatshop labor was required to build it.
Do you have links to any reports published by Nokia?
They were named in the Telegraph article as the factory where 62 workers were poisoned by hexane was making phone components for both Apple and Nokia.
Nokia has a labor section in their website, as does Dell and others. They all say more or less the same things:
Apple said the child workers are now no longer being used, or are no longer underage. "In each of the three facilities, we required a review of all employment records for the year as well as a complete analysis of the hiring process to clarify how underage people had been able to gain employment," Apple said, in an annual report on its suppliers.
So what's the problem?
[Redacted]
8) OHS
Issues found were related to personal protective equipment (PPE) use (mainly earplugs), first aid kit stocks and fire safety. Despite employees being required to use this equipment a small number were choosing not to do so. Factories were advised to increase employees’ awareness of the benefits of using PPE, improve the process for filling first aid kits, and ensure adequate number of trained people with first aid and fire safety skills.
All findings have an action plan in place and those factories with an action plan have been scheduled for a reassessment during the first half of 2009 to ensure full compliance with the framework.
It didn't help much with this, did it?
Taiwanese Apple, Nokia supplier admits more employees were poisoned
26 February 2010 13:53 by James "Dela" Delahunty
A Taiwanese company that provides displays and electronics components for Nokia, Apple and others has confirmed that more employees than previously thought were poisoned by a chemical used in the manufacturing processes at the plant. Last summer, it emerged that between 47 and 49 employees were sickened by exposure to n-hexane, and now a Wintek spokesman admitted the figure is actually 62.
Source
Isn't this thread about 15 year old workers?
6) Child labour avoidance
Children don't have the physics, knowledge or experience of an adult, and therefore children enjoy distinct rights to protection.
Employment processes must be designed to strive that no children are working in factories. Age of the candidate must always be verified prior to recruitment. Young workers may be employed according to local legislation to support youth employment. Young worker refers to any person at least the age of 15 but under 18, or older if so specified in local legislation. However, young workers must not be exposed to any hazardous work, overtime work or nightshifts, as per ILO recommendations.
Source
So Nokia actually supports the use of child labour which Apple is being admonished for i.e. 15 year olds in the workforce.
At least eleven 15-year-old children were discovered to be working last year in three factories which supply Apple.
Source
Nokia has a labor section in their website, as does Dell and others. They all say more or less the same things:
This comment is totally out of line here and is soooo racist
not to mention idiotic - you want to blame the descendants for the ancestor's crimes? Logic - FAIL!
The fact that you swung in the irrelevant and disgusting word "pedophile" gives some insight into your intellect.
You either believe free market capitalism or you don't. No one is talking about 'worshipping' it.
Hey "Bobby Business Boy," there are as many variations of "free" market capitalism as countries on the planet and states in the U.S. It isn't something to "believe in" it is a general economic model based upon many (sometimes contradictory) values.
There is no problem in regulating it and in calling on those who act as if it the final arbiter of good on Earth - that would be "worshipping" it. Look at all the Ayn Rand crowd who are on their every 20-year upswing, and you'll see plenty of objectivist, capitalism worshippers.
i did
i have also seen it used a lot lately..
i have trouble with its usage and in what context //
i guess i have a kind of mental block
A straw man is someone or something that you invent yourself ... as if you were making it out of straw, metaphorically. Instead of arguing against a real issue, you create an exaggerated representation of an opinion or a totally made up one that you can attack and look reasonable in attacking it while ignoring the real issue.
You either believe free market capitalism or you don't.
That's only true to someone with a black and white view of things.
100% free market capitalism is called anarchy, and would without a doubt result in things like baby milk laced with melanin and other widespread commercial fraud. It would also result in every single item being manufactured overseas, and virtually no market for American products. On the other hand, 100% state controlled commerce is pure communism, and the only such state that exists in the world today is North Korea. China is not even close to anti-free market capitalism.
What the US, and every state needs is free-market to a degree.
To what degree is what we disagree on.
Not simply some ignorant "free-market good, tariffs and regulations bad" attitude.
In England, the Telegraph is known as the "house paper" of the Conservative party. If you follow it for very long, you start seeing the slant in much of what they write. They are more concerned with pushing a political point of view than in reporting news accurately. It is similar to Fox News in the US.
Since Apple in this case is doing something usually associated with liberals, i.e. protecting the underdogs, the Telegraph will tend to slant their reporting to make Apple look bad. If Apple instead had taken a position that it's not the job of business to protect people, it is the job of business to make profits, then the Telegraph would have slanted their language to laud Apple.
^^^
This.
Slavery ! That's normal isn't it?
But it was not in "my" backyard!
Some people just don't get it...
What about over here. It is common practice in the stores to be put on 7 day shifts without a break and to work well over 38 hours without getting paid a single penny of overtime. Also breaks are non-existent and those who do take breaks (by force) are seen as being militant despite being legally entitled.
At Christmas several employees were on 11 day stretches and not by choice! 7 day stretches are rare but do happen but 6 day stretches are very common and most full time retail employees will be doing them on a regular basis.....bad.....really bad!
Perhaps we need a report into the labour violations of Apple WORLDWIDE not just in China.
Think twice before applying to work for Apple.
And Apple if your reading this..... Take a long hard look at how your staff (i have friends who work for you) are being treated in the US and UK before casting judgement on companies in China.
Z CR - Scotland
You'd have to be a manipulated moron to believe that humanity can survive on a toxified, deforested planet.
I am an environmentalist not despite humanity but because of it. The Earth, left to itself, will simply become a burnt cinder in a couple of billion years. By then we could be living in half the galaxy.
But if the Earth becomes a treeless toxic dump in a couple of hundred years, as we are now on a path to, the only place our civilization will go to is a well-deserved early grave.
Treeless? Who wants a treeless Earth?
Oh wait, Al Gore does! He thinks dying Trees give off too much CO2, so we should cut them all down and prevent them from decomposing.
Is this the type of "Environmentalist" you are? The kind that wants to punish and tax humanity based on fraud?
Why is possibly good marketing necessarily a 'ploy?' Why is pursuit of energy efficiency 'sick and backward?'
More generally, if you can do well by doing good, what is wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with any of this. I just pointed out that Apple shoves Greenery in your face to make you feel guilty about buying something else. I was also just pointing out that to them, its not about the earth, its about selling computers. That shouldn't be misunderstood.
You live in NJ and ask this question? Have you driven down the NJ Turnpike, and looked on either side?!
Small, insignificant fraction of what used to exist. Damn, People amaze me with their know-it-all attitudes. They drive past half a dozen smoke stacks and think they're seeing "industry".