I think there is a critical point many people are failing to understand.
Apple isn't keeping Flash from the iPad or iPhone for performance reasons. If all they cared about was performance they would work with Adobe to make it better.
................
Flash can provide the same degree of interactivity over the web as an overwhelming majority of the apps in the apps store. .......
Putting Flash on the iPhone will directly impact the app store, reduce it sales, and reduce the viability of the app store product model.
....................
The basic premise is that Apple wants to have as much control as they possibly can and capture as many customers in a closed environmental product loop as they can. This is exactly the same strategy that Microsoft employs and it will not change until market forces require it to be so.
The Apple vs Flash debate is smart business for Apple. If I had any of their stock I would be happy about it. I don't, so I will probably pass on the iPad for now.
Condé Nast needs to have a standards-based website, and only use plug-in technology like Flash for content as an alternate view. There is a difference between offering content using Flash and offering Flash-only content.
Anyone who develops a Flash-only website is just being lazy, and the stakeholders that pay their salaries should know just how lazy they are...
Are you joking? Flash is a standard. Every single computer I've bought for the last ten+ years has had Flash pre-installed.
Anyone who develops a Flash-only website is lazy? So you do not watch video on the Internet I take it. You should check it out- it's really cool.
News flash (sorry for the pun)- there is NO SECURITY MODEL FOR VIDEO IN HTML5! So anyone who makes a living off of video (i.e. Paramount, MTV, BET, CBS, NBC, MGM, Lionsgate, BBC, or any other media company in the world) needs to use Flash or Silverlight or such. Sorry for the caps but it really irks me that folks don't realize this.
I'm all for advancing technology on the interwebs but It also irks me that folks don't realize that this whole "Flash fight" is just an Apple play to force people to into buying content on their own ecosystem- iTunes. I mean I love Apple, and I'll be first in line to grab an iPad, but c'mon people- it's kind of obvious, yeah?
Flash is a CPU hog, and my logs show it crashing OS X systems more frequently than any other single cause.
Nor is Adobe's laziness (though I'd call it the typical smug self righteous inertia of the successful fat bully) really in doubt. CS4 is a loosely-bound collection of waddling, gelatinous bloatware of the sort only they and the great MicroSquish can get away with.
Neither company's market dominance has anything to do with the quality of its products - nor has either engineered anything deserving of admiration since I learned to type. What's remarkable about them both is their ability to convince vast numbers of people that it's in the nature of computers to be slow and unreliable no matter how many tens of gigabytes of memory anyone buys.
I really hope that each "subscription" isn't its own application. It really makes things feel clunky; I would much prefer for the content to "plug into" a reader application or just browser. Too many of the apps currently on the AppStore have too many different interfaces that it feels awkward.
Yes, talk about OLD technology--a digital version of a print publication that keeps the print formatting and requires a separate app to read it. Websites were supposed to replace all that. The worst thing is that the separate effort in developing these digital publications will make publishers feel they are entitled to charge subscriptions, instead of relying on ad revenue as most websites do. Then, when these publications fail for lack of subscribers, people will blame it on digital media in general, instead of recognizing that these publishers developed digital media in the wrong way and used the wrong business model.
Developers make money from the App store 70% of the sale price, so you want those developers to give their work away, for free by developing "free" flash sites?
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
The idea of the App store is to provide an easy way for DEVELOPERS to sell their Apps.
I wonder what Adobe is paying for astroturfers, there seem to be a lot of them about.
I think I'll go watch some videos on my iPhone that companies provide for me and the 75 MILLION people who have devices like mine.
They have iPhone specific sites, well the ones who know where the money is do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak
The iPhone is now three years old and has never supported Flash. If it's absolutely essential for companies to support the iPhone, why haven't companies left and right dropped their Flash websites in favor of HTML over the last three years?
And how does it apply to ARM based processors which Apple use besides Intel processors?
Why doesn't the Adobe Flash player 10.1 beta I installed on my Mac utilise my GPU???
Lazy...
Lazy...
Lazy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusYoung
It sounds like you're the lazy one and has done little to no research on the next version of CS5.
Quit bitching, start reading other articles than AI and comics and get with the program or be left behind. Just like Apple, Adobe decided to make it Intel only.
Article Title
Adobe CS5 on Mac to be Intel-only, Cocoa, 64-bit native
Once a decent timeline based html5 development app appears (and it will) say goodbye to Flash.
Flash will die. It is written.
And "lazy", damn right, Adobe make some of the worst software for OSX. The only decent products they ever owned was just after they bought Macromedia, which was then systematically ruined by Adobe.
Bring back Macromedia.
Every time I use CS4 I walk away feeling like I have been raped by a PC. It's disturbing.
I'm so hacked off with Adobe recently, I have been looking into alternative products, some of them look very promising for image manipulation and vector work.
At least one of those was developed by a single person.... let me repeat that...A SINGLE PERSON! Now why can't a behemoth like Adobe create something absolutely stunning...
It's probably not the poor developers fault, they certainly were talented prior to adobe's acquisition, it's more than likely Adobe's visionless corporate culture.
Oh and the fact that they don't use cocoa... where you get functionality 'for free' and a user experience mac users expect.
Flash will dominate the iPad. As soon as 'native app porting' becomes the norm in Adobe Suite CS5 developers will simply port Flash over to the app store. This has been happening on the iPhone for some time now - yes, some of your apps were designed in Flash
The app store and app environment is simply Apples' delivery model. It 'squeezes' Flash though a few hoops and then it appears in the app store. Most apps will be free - but still, only available to download through the app store environment.
CPU usage will still be the same - hog or not. Badly designed apps will still crash your machine.
Put simply, if Flash was available in the browser, anyone could design an app store of their own, thus debunking the Apple App Store.
Before I go one, let me just say that I came across this site minutes ago, while googling around, doing some read on Conde Nast. Found the forum and this is the first thread I came across, seem like lots of arrogance and fanboys in here, statements about technology they obviously know very little about.
Crashes, lazy, old technology.... ? Quite amusing read so far.
I don't quite understand that tho, just because we all are Apple products enthusiast, does not mean we need to worship everything Apple does or say. They do have problems and the more we demand and complain, the more the product will be refined to please the clients needs and meet popular demand. Yet Instead, many choose to play Steve's song and blindly disregard Flash and its place on the web arena. Really silly.... biased and narrow minded.
I have been using Flash happily on my Mac for 8 years now. I have design using Flash and surf Flash and I never had any problems with it. I have two iPhones but I would never use it to surf web so I don't care about Flash support. Excuse me but the idea of constantly pinching, scrolling and reading on a 480-by-320-pixel screen is not my idea of surfing. iphone does what it does, play games, make calls, take photo, send text, play music in my bmw via the ipod kit and get handy when I need to quickly find some reference using google. Let's not forger that during all the browser wars (CSS, Active X, Javascript, DHTML etc...) Flash is the only media that is truly cross OS and browser compatible.
The whole support and performance bullcrap has a specific reason behind. For one, Apple is being lazy to develop real and powerful operating system to support current technologies without compromising the size and power usage of the device. Flash is desktop application and it does not perform well on small devices just like any other technology. You all forgot about QTVR ? Come on, it's a Apple's native format and yet it's not supported on iphone and ipad. Why? Because it's resource hogging and power hungry... means really bad engineering on Apple's side.
Secondly, and most important, (let me quote here) "you need to remember that Apple is a company that enjoys total dominance over its hardware and the software that runs on, so allowing Flash ? which is a development platform of its own ? would just be too dangerous as it would divert business from the App Store, as well as enable publishers to distribute music, videos and movies that could compete with the iTunes Store. There is a reason why Apple desperately forces Flash out. And it's not technical as they often claim, it's simply pure profit greed."
Dear alkrantz
For all the people who think HTML5 and Javascript will replace Flash, I say bring it on ? Go on write a rich, entertaining and secure online gambling game in JQuery that works across multiple browser Laughable and I really don't
feel like making comments if someone even try to compare HTML5 to Flash - it's obvious, he/she simply know very little
about either one ....
HTML 5 is a neat idea and may be friendly for video delivery, simple animations and those who don't know Flash, but how long (if ever) will it be before it can do everything Flash can? What will Flash be able to do by then? Adobe?s not going anywhere and their device penetration is only growing bigger with each day.
I will continue to enjoy my bookPro and iMacs but I will say Thank You and No Thank You to iPad for now. I don't consider Ultimate Surfing Experience while surfing 20% of the 80% of not supported internet sites.
regards
Monika Oga
That was long read to get to the lame overused "80% of websites" bull. 8 years of Flash and you barely understand how worthless Flash actually is, and WHY it should never have been used in the first place. So what if you spent 8 years working in Flash? You didn't do a damn thing to improve it! Yet you could have had you been working in an open standard instead of some companies buggy plugin. Adobe may have seemed like God a few years ago but only to people who didn't the understand the world around them.
And how will you pay the developers for their Apps.
Cost of SDK for iPhone OS = $0
Cost of Adobe Creative Suite 4 Design Premium = $1800
That makes sound business sense.
Developers will be saying "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!"
AND GUESS WHAT, when they port it over it will no longer be Flash but a replacement for Flash because Flash won't run on an iPad.
Flash won't be the CPU hogging wrapper messing everything up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by powderdust
Flash will dominate the iPad. As soon as 'native app porting' becomes the norm in Adobe Suite CS5 developers will simply port Flash over to the app store. This has been happening on the iPhone for some time now - yes, some of your apps were designed in Flash
The app store and app environment is simply Apples' delivery model. It 'squeezes' Flash though a few hoops and then it appears in the app store. Most apps will be free - but still, only available to download through the app store environment.
CPU usage will still be the same - hog or not. Badly designed apps will still crash your machine.
Put simply, if Flash was available in the browser, anyone could design an app store of their own, thus debunking the Apple App Store.
The iPhone is now three years old and has never supported Flash. If it's absolutely essential for companies to support the iPhone, why haven't companies left and right dropped their Flash websites in favor of HTML over the last three years?
That must be why this site has an iPhone interface, or why Google and Vimeo have a HTML5 option, or why almost all porn sites now stream H.264.
That must be why this site has an iPhone interface, or why Google and Vimeo have a HTML5 option, or why almost all porn sites now stream H.264.
Yep, the most popular websites are migrating away from flash.
And... Where porn goes, the other media industries will follow. This can't be stressed enough. Causation vs correlation aside, it has been a flawless indicator of technology trends. Even before the digital age, before the CRT age, porn was at the forefront of media and entertainment technologies.
So the question is: Is porn moving away from flash? Who's gonna man up and admit they know the answer?
Why doesn't the Adobe Flash player 10.1 beta I installed on my Mac utilise my GPU???
Because Apple, typical control freaks that they are, won't allow Adobe access to the hardware at the level they need. Microsoft does, however, and they have fully accelerated Flash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
And... Where porn goes, the other media industries will follow.
Comments
I think there is a critical point many people are failing to understand.
Apple isn't keeping Flash from the iPad or iPhone for performance reasons. If all they cared about was performance they would work with Adobe to make it better.
................
Flash can provide the same degree of interactivity over the web as an overwhelming majority of the apps in the apps store. .......
Putting Flash on the iPhone will directly impact the app store, reduce it sales, and reduce the viability of the app store product model.
....................
The basic premise is that Apple wants to have as much control as they possibly can and capture as many customers in a closed environmental product loop as they can. This is exactly the same strategy that Microsoft employs and it will not change until market forces require it to be so.
The Apple vs Flash debate is smart business for Apple. If I had any of their stock I would be happy about it. I don't, so I will probably pass on the iPad for now.
Second that, exactly what I was saying....
Second that, exactly what I was saying....
Great minds think alike
Condé Nast needs to have a standards-based website, and only use plug-in technology like Flash for content as an alternate view. There is a difference between offering content using Flash and offering Flash-only content.
Anyone who develops a Flash-only website is just being lazy, and the stakeholders that pay their salaries should know just how lazy they are...
Are you joking? Flash is a standard. Every single computer I've bought for the last ten+ years has had Flash pre-installed.
Anyone who develops a Flash-only website is lazy? So you do not watch video on the Internet I take it. You should check it out- it's really cool.
News flash (sorry for the pun)- there is NO SECURITY MODEL FOR VIDEO IN HTML5! So anyone who makes a living off of video (i.e. Paramount, MTV, BET, CBS, NBC, MGM, Lionsgate, BBC, or any other media company in the world) needs to use Flash or Silverlight or such. Sorry for the caps but it really irks me that folks don't realize this.
I'm all for advancing technology on the interwebs but It also irks me that folks don't realize that this whole "Flash fight" is just an Apple play to force people to into buying content on their own ecosystem- iTunes. I mean I love Apple, and I'll be first in line to grab an iPad, but c'mon people- it's kind of obvious, yeah?
Great minds think alike
Third
Nor is Adobe's laziness (though I'd call it the typical smug self righteous inertia of the successful fat bully) really in doubt. CS4 is a loosely-bound collection of waddling, gelatinous bloatware of the sort only they and the great MicroSquish can get away with.
Neither company's market dominance has anything to do with the quality of its products - nor has either engineered anything deserving of admiration since I learned to type. What's remarkable about them both is their ability to convince vast numbers of people that it's in the nature of computers to be slow and unreliable no matter how many tens of gigabytes of memory anyone buys.
That is an achievement.
I really hope that each "subscription" isn't its own application. It really makes things feel clunky; I would much prefer for the content to "plug into" a reader application or just browser. Too many of the apps currently on the AppStore have too many different interfaces that it feels awkward.
Yes, talk about OLD technology--a digital version of a print publication that keeps the print formatting and requires a separate app to read it. Websites were supposed to replace all that. The worst thing is that the separate effort in developing these digital publications will make publishers feel they are entitled to charge subscriptions, instead of relying on ad revenue as most websites do. Then, when these publications fail for lack of subscribers, people will blame it on digital media in general, instead of recognizing that these publishers developed digital media in the wrong way and used the wrong business model.
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
The idea of the App store is to provide an easy way for DEVELOPERS to sell their Apps.
I wonder what Adobe is paying for astroturfers, there seem to be a lot of them about.
I think I'll go watch some videos on my iPhone that companies provide for me and the 75 MILLION people who have devices like mine.
The iPhone is now three years old and has never supported Flash. If it's absolutely essential for companies to support the iPhone, why haven't companies left and right dropped their Flash websites in favor of HTML over the last three years?
Oh, it's not out yet...
...wtf???
Lazy...
Lazy...
Lazy...
NEXT VERSION, wtf you mean NEXT VERSION???
And how does it apply to ARM based processors which Apple use besides Intel processors?
Why doesn't the Adobe Flash player 10.1 beta I installed on my Mac utilise my GPU???
Lazy...
Lazy...
Lazy...
It sounds like you're the lazy one and has done little to no research on the next version of CS5.
Quit bitching, start reading other articles than AI and comics and get with the program or be left behind. Just like Apple, Adobe decided to make it Intel only.
Article Title
Adobe CS5 on Mac to be Intel-only, Cocoa, 64-bit native
http://cs5.org/?p=172
Flash will die. It is written.
And "lazy", damn right, Adobe make some of the worst software for OSX. The only decent products they ever owned was just after they bought Macromedia, which was then systematically ruined by Adobe.
Bring back Macromedia.
Every time I use CS4 I walk away feeling like I have been raped by a PC. It's disturbing.
I'm so hacked off with Adobe recently, I have been looking into alternative products, some of them look very promising for image manipulation and vector work.
Opacity, Acorn, VectorDesigner, Drawit, Pixelmator
At least one of those was developed by a single person.... let me repeat that...A SINGLE PERSON! Now why can't a behemoth like Adobe create something absolutely stunning...
It's probably not the poor developers fault, they certainly were talented prior to adobe's acquisition, it's more than likely Adobe's visionless corporate culture.
Oh and the fact that they don't use cocoa... where you get functionality 'for free' and a user experience mac users expect.
Flash is gash.
Even my company's IT department bans Flash sites, and we're forced to use PCs.
These facts tell me Flash is bad.
My main problem is I just want content from Web sites. Flash gets in the way of content.
It's like this ...
http://venomousporridge.com/post/389...ry-month-or-so
Me: (tries to visit a local restaurant?s website via iPhone)
Restaurant website: I require Flash. Fuck off.
Me: I just want to know how late you?re open.
Website: Nope.
Me: But I?m on my phone. Don?t you have a little ?HTML Version? link up in the corner or something?
Website: I?m ignoring you.
Me: What if I?m on my phone because I?m out, looking for a place to eat? Didn?t that ever occur to you?
Website: Fuck entirely off.
Me: (gives up, switches to computer)
Website: Oh! Hi! What can I help you with today?
Me: What are your ?
Website: Hang on, I?m loading the music.
Me: Really.
Website: You?ll love it. It?s ?Girl from Ipanema? arranged for steel drum and keytar.
Me: No, you don?t have to ?
Website: Loading?
Me: All I want is ?
Website: I SAID DOT DOT DOT.
Me: (drums fingers on desk)
Website: There we go. Isn?t that nice? It?s? what?s the word. Ethnicky.
Me: What are your hours?
Website: Take a look at our menu! It?s a PDF of a screenshot of a scan of a Word document printed on a dishtowel. With fonts!
Me: I don?t care. What are your hours?
Website: Don?t worry, the menu loads in a new window so the music won?t stop. Can I show you some broken images?
Me: What. Are. Your. Hou. Rs.
Website: I? I don?t know.
Me: (goes to Denny?s)
I block Flash on all my browsers now.
The app store and app environment is simply Apples' delivery model. It 'squeezes' Flash though a few hoops and then it appears in the app store. Most apps will be free - but still, only available to download through the app store environment.
CPU usage will still be the same - hog or not. Badly designed apps will still crash your machine.
Put simply, if Flash was available in the browser, anyone could design an app store of their own, thus debunking the Apple App Store.
Love and kisses.
Could not agree with you more alkrantz.
Before I go one, let me just say that I came across this site minutes ago, while googling around, doing some read on Conde Nast. Found the forum and this is the first thread I came across, seem like lots of arrogance and fanboys in here, statements about technology they obviously know very little about.
Crashes, lazy, old technology.... ?
I don't quite understand that tho, just because we all are Apple products enthusiast, does not mean we need to worship everything Apple does or say. They do have problems and the more we demand and complain, the more the product will be refined to please the clients needs and meet popular demand. Yet Instead, many choose to play Steve's song and blindly disregard Flash and its place on the web arena. Really silly.... biased and narrow minded.
I have been using Flash happily on my Mac for 8 years now. I have design using Flash and surf Flash and I never had any problems with it. I have two iPhones but I would never use it to surf web so I don't care about Flash support. Excuse me but the idea of constantly pinching, scrolling and reading on a 480-by-320-pixel screen is not my idea of surfing. iphone does what it does, play games, make calls, take photo, send text, play music in my bmw via the ipod kit and get handy when I need to quickly find some reference using google. Let's not forger that during all the browser wars (CSS, Active X, Javascript, DHTML etc...) Flash is the only media that is truly cross OS and browser compatible.
The whole support and performance bullcrap has a specific reason behind. For one, Apple is being lazy to develop real and powerful operating system to support current technologies without compromising the size and power usage of the device. Flash is desktop application and it does not perform well on small devices just like any other technology. You all forgot about QTVR ? Come on, it's a Apple's native format and yet it's not supported on iphone and ipad. Why? Because it's resource hogging and power hungry... means really bad engineering on Apple's side.
Secondly, and most important, (let me quote here) "you need to remember that Apple is a company that enjoys total dominance over its hardware and the software that runs on, so allowing Flash ? which is a development platform of its own ? would just be too dangerous as it would divert business from the App Store, as well as enable publishers to distribute music, videos and movies that could compete with the iTunes Store. There is a reason why Apple desperately forces Flash out. And it's not technical as they often claim, it's simply pure profit greed."
Dear alkrantz
For all the people who think HTML5 and Javascript will replace Flash, I say bring it on ? Go on write a rich, entertaining and secure online gambling game in JQuery that works across multiple browser
feel like making comments if someone even try to compare HTML5 to Flash - it's obvious, he/she simply know very little
about either one ....
HTML 5 is a neat idea and may be friendly for video delivery, simple animations and those who don't know Flash, but how long (if ever) will it be before it can do everything Flash can? What will Flash be able to do by then? Adobe?s not going anywhere and their device penetration is only growing bigger with each day.
I will continue to enjoy my bookPro and iMacs but I will say Thank You and No Thank You to iPad for now. I don't consider Ultimate Surfing Experience while surfing 20% of the 80% of not supported internet sites.
regards
Monika Oga
That was long read to get to the lame overused "80% of websites" bull. 8 years of Flash and you barely understand how worthless Flash actually is, and WHY it should never have been used in the first place. So what if you spent 8 years working in Flash? You didn't do a damn thing to improve it! Yet you could have had you been working in an open standard instead of some companies buggy plugin. Adobe may have seemed like God a few years ago but only to people who didn't the understand the world around them.
Cost of SDK for iPhone OS = $0
Cost of Adobe Creative Suite 4 Design Premium = $1800
That makes sound business sense.
Developers will be saying "SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!"
AND GUESS WHAT, when they port it over it will no longer be Flash but a replacement for Flash because Flash won't run on an iPad.
Flash won't be the CPU hogging wrapper messing everything up.
Flash will dominate the iPad. As soon as 'native app porting' becomes the norm in Adobe Suite CS5 developers will simply port Flash over to the app store. This has been happening on the iPhone for some time now - yes, some of your apps were designed in Flash
The app store and app environment is simply Apples' delivery model. It 'squeezes' Flash though a few hoops and then it appears in the app store. Most apps will be free - but still, only available to download through the app store environment.
CPU usage will still be the same - hog or not. Badly designed apps will still crash your machine.
Put simply, if Flash was available in the browser, anyone could design an app store of their own, thus debunking the Apple App Store.
Love and kisses.
My experience with Flash on PCs is just as bad as Flash on Macs.
Even my company's IT department bans Flash sites, and we're forced to use PCs.
These facts tell me Flash is bad.
My main problem is I just want content from Web sites. Flash gets in the way of content.
It's like this ...
http://venomousporridge.com/post/389...ry-month-or-so
Me: (tries to visit a local restaurant?s website via iPhone)
Restaurant website: I require Flash. Fuck off.
Me: I just want to know how late you?re open.
Website: Nope.
Me: But I?m on my phone. Don?t you have a little ?HTML Version? link up in the corner or something?
Website: I?m ignoring you.
Me: What if I?m on my phone because I?m out, looking for a place to eat? Didn?t that ever occur to you?
Website: Fuck entirely off.
Me: (gives up, switches to computer)
Website: Oh! Hi! What can I help you with today?
Me: What are your ?
Website: Hang on, I?m loading the music.
Me: Really.
Website: You?ll love it. It?s ?Girl from Ipanema? arranged for steel drum and keytar.
Me: No, you don?t have to ?
Website: Loading?
Me: All I want is ?
Website: I SAID DOT DOT DOT.
Me: (drums fingers on desk)
Website: There we go. Isn?t that nice? It?s? what?s the word. Ethnicky.
Me: What are your hours?
Website: Take a look at our menu! It?s a PDF of a screenshot of a scan of a Word document printed on a dishtowel. With fonts!
Me: I don?t care. What are your hours?
Website: Don?t worry, the menu loads in a new window so the music won?t stop. Can I show you some broken images?
Me: What. Are. Your. Hou. Rs.
Website: I? I don?t know.
Me: (goes to Denny?s)
I block Flash on all my browsers now.
Oh my God dude. Seriously? Denny's!? GROOOSSSS
Buuut seriously, you've attempted to make flash sites sound far worse than they are. Nice try though
The iPhone is now three years old and has never supported Flash. If it's absolutely essential for companies to support the iPhone, why haven't companies left and right dropped their Flash websites in favor of HTML over the last three years?
That must be why this site has an iPhone interface, or why Google and Vimeo have a HTML5 option, or why almost all porn sites now stream H.264.
That must be why this site has an iPhone interface, or why Google and Vimeo have a HTML5 option, or why almost all porn sites now stream H.264.
Yep, the most popular websites are migrating away from flash.
And... Where porn goes, the other media industries will follow. This can't be stressed enough. Causation vs correlation aside, it has been a flawless indicator of technology trends. Even before the digital age, before the CRT age, porn was at the forefront of media and entertainment technologies.
So the question is: Is porn moving away from flash? Who's gonna man up and admit they know the answer?
Why doesn't the Adobe Flash player 10.1 beta I installed on my Mac utilise my GPU???
Because Apple, typical control freaks that they are, won't allow Adobe access to the hardware at the level they need. Microsoft does, however, and they have fully accelerated Flash.
And... Where porn goes, the other media industries will follow.
Porn chose HD-DVD.