It's not that well known authors wouldn't be able to sell books, but where will the new talent come from? I know some people think that most will be self publishing, but really, that doesn't work for many people. Most self published work that I've read has been garbage. This is mostly stuff that isn't worthy of being published. Same thing for music. I know that there will always be someone who will like this stuff, but really!
Even the best known authors need support. And they won't sell nearly as many books as before, even with their own staffs helping. Tv talk shows don't want to be bombarded with hundreds of people calling to set up interviews. When a publisher calls, it's different. The show knows something is going on that they would like to have.
So many people have such simplistic attitudes about the way these things work.
I agree that most self-published work isn't worth the paper (or e-ink) it's printed on, but my point was that it is inevitable that some of the big name authors will want a larger cut of the pie and they'll be able to do it by selling "direct" either via iTunes, Amazon, or perhaps even through their own e-delivery web site.
Well thats good to hear... I for one would really like to see ebooks thrive. I'm far from a tree-hugger (quite far) but even I can see enormous benefits worldwide if ebooks became the norm.
- Global resources (trees, inks, trucking, warehousing).
- Versatility and potentially vast savings to disabled individuals. Special (costly) brail-editions might be all but unnecessary since the text is in digital format could be read aloud or possibly even digitally linked with existing brail device if the person has the device. I don't know the proper name but its a line of mechanical dots that can be activated to form words and sentences. Large print editions (again at an added cost due to it being a special low-quanity print run) for the elderly or weak sighted people. In todays world I'm going to bet that many of printed books, magazines and journals are simply not available in large print or brail editions due to the relatively low demand for the majority of titles published simply can't justify the expense of creating these special editions.
- Storage... todays libraries are simply unable to house and catalog the vast number of printed publications generated each year. Many share their collections with a network of libraries and books can be requested across the network and then delivered to the proper library so the person can eventually borrow it. This is a great effort but it is time consuming and wastes time and doesn't address the real problem, storage space. If ebooks become a fully embraced method of publishing and distribution, libraries could provide enormous catalogs of books with zero additional storage and no need to shuttle books from one library to another. One day I could see the physical library transformed from a roof and wall holding a ton of printed books into something totally different...
I was almost going to say the library itself (as a physical space) could be unnecessary but I think it still could hold a great value to the neighborhood it services provided the people running the library have vision to look beyond the physical books.
I understand the storage problem. We have over 3,000 books. That's why I welcome e-books, of which I now have several hundred. I've also railed at the overpricing I've seen.
But that overpricing is when an e-book is sold for the list price of the hardcover edition. This is still commonplace. You can find that on MobilePocket, and even the books section of the app store. Crazy!
But I find $13 to $15 to be fair enough for a just released book. If prices do indeed come down to the $4.99 level, that seems fair as well.
As a number of authors who have written about this have said, the rights to books may be given back to the author if the books aren't selling. Then some can, and do sell them for as little as $0.99. At that point, the authors have really got nothing to lose. Every sale, even at that price is better than no sale.
But if their books are selling, even in the low thousands, then they are going to want a more normal price as well.
...The cost of producing an ebook isn't simply the additional $1.28 cost over converting it from paper to ebook. ...
This sort of statement causes considerable skepticism for many of us. I don't know what system is being used for the conversion but if there is a recurring cost per copy then someone should be fired. As someone else has noted several of these so-called costs are actually performed by $8 to $12 per hour employees. The numbers as they are presented are either poorly explained or just dishonest. Many of us don't have a background in publishing but we do know something about computers and networks and we can recognize smoke and mirrors (i.e. lies) when we see them.
On the other hand I'm not agitated or concerned about prices being set wherever publishers want to see them. For the vast majority of books the prices are far beyond what I would pay (since they are of little interest to me) and for the others the prices are very attractive. Setting higher prices simply reduces the number of books that are of interest to me. Setting e-book prices much higher than the marginal cost simply diminishes the role of books in our society.
I agree that most self-published work isn't worth the paper (or e-ink) it's printed on, but my point was that it is inevitable that some of the big name authors will want a larger cut of the pie and they'll be able to do it by selling "direct" either via iTunes, Amazon, or perhaps even through their own e-delivery web site.
I agree. But the big name authors aren't what this is all about in the long run. It's about the viability of a strong, free press. And press means more than newspapers. It means anyone. We've always had self published authors. I know a couple, but the vast majority need publishers behind them.
I have no problem with people wanting to publish their own vanity work. A vanity press exists, and has for a very long time. E-books will make that easier, and I'm all for that.
But I don't want to see that ruin the publishing industry.
I've already linked to this, and it remains the best article written about this issue from a published author that I've seen so far. He also has links to others. It's somewhat long, but well worth the read. I just wish everyone who comments on this issue would read it.
This sort of statement causes considerable skepticism for many of us. I don't know what system is being used for the conversion but if there is a recurring cost per copy then someone should be fired. As someone else has noted several of these so-called costs are actually performed by $8 to $12 per hour employees. The numbers as they are presented are either poorly explained or just dishonest. Many of us don't have a background in publishing but we do know something about computers and networks and we can recognize smoke and mirrors (i.e. lies) when we see them.
On the other hand I'm not agitated or concerned about prices being set wherever publishers want to see them. For the vast majority of books the prices are far beyond what I would pay (since they are of little interest to me) and for the others the prices are very attractive. Setting higher prices simply reduces the number of books that are of interest to me. Setting e-book prices much higher than the marginal cost simply diminishes the role of books in our society.
You have to look at where the money is going, and understand that all the expenses for producing a book are still valid for an e-book, other than the small amount for printing and its derivatives.
Only if you think that no one should profit from the e-book edition would you think that it's worth so little.
I really don't think that you can understand the "smoke and lies". What I do see is that you don't want to pay more than a trifle because somehow, you think that once something's in digital form, it's worth almost nothing.
I agree. But the big name authors aren't what this is all about in the long run. It's about the viability of a strong, free press. And press means more than newspapers. It means anyone. We've always had self published authors. I know a couple, but the vast majority need publishers behind them.
I have no problem with people wanting to publish their own vanity work. A vanity press exists, and has for a very long time. E-books will make that easier, and I'm all for that.
But I don't want to see that ruin the publishing industry.
I've already linked to this, and it remains the best article written about this issue from a published author that I've seen so far. He also has links to others. It's somewhat long, but well worth the read. I just wish everyone who comments on this issue would read it.
Thanks for the article link. The author makes some interesting points, but the fact remains... all human activity, as long as it is possible be digitized (this of course includes the work of artists, writers, filmmakers, doctors, lawyers, and "experts" of all kinds, etc., etc., etc.), face vastly increased competition, if not obsolescence by virtue of the fact that the final product, the work, can be boiled down to an easily distributable and consumable product. Think about it. Everyone will have near equal access to the absolute best and latest information in any given field and about every human activity. That's a lot of competition to make a little money, and the net effect is to drive the value of everything digital as near to zero as possible.
This is why extreme specialization will continue on it's skyward path, and why personalities and/or personal contacts will likely be more important than the ultimate activity. Having said that, the "journeyman" authors, artists, and all the rest will still find room to create product and sell. Not every bit of output needs to make it's owner a lifetime of riches.
But I find $13 to $15 to be fair enough for a just released book. If prices do indeed come down to the $4.99 level, that seems fair as well.
Very good point. IMO, this is critical for eBooks to succeed. Although with that said, if it only costs a publisher $3.26 to print, store, and ship a new hardcover book, there really isn't a reason for publishers to make any price concessions for eBooks.
Thanks for the article link. The author makes some interesting points, but the fact remains... all human activity, as long as it is possible be digitized (this of course includes the work of artists, writers, filmmakers, doctors, lawyers, and "experts" of all kinds, etc., etc., etc.), face vastly increased competition, if not obsolescence by virtue of the fact that the final product, the work, can be boiled down to an easily distributable and consumable product. Think about it. Everyone will have near equal access to the absolute best and latest information in any given field and about every human activity. That's a lot of competition to make a little money, and the net effect is to drive the value of everything digital as near to zero as possible.
This is why extreme specialization will continue on it's skyward path, and why personalities and/or personal contacts will likely be more important than the ultimate activity. Having said that, the "journeyman" authors, artists, and all the rest will still find room to create product and sell. Not every bit of output needs to make it's owner a lifetime of riches.
Almost everyone wants to make money at what they're doing. The dream of authors is to be able to do it full time. Few achieve that goal. Fewer will achieve it without the publishing industry.
It's nice to think of ideals, but they never work.
well, lets probably assume that this calculation is valid for hardcover and new books vs ebooks. but whats about older ones, availablr as paperback. more or less everytime i browse the kindle store the ebooks are more expensive than than the papaerback version. that's the thing i don't understand - it just seems they are ripping us off with the ebook stuff...
"If e-book sales start to replace some hardcover sales, the publishers say, they will still have many of the fixed costs associated with print editions, like warehouse space, but they will be spread among fewer print copies."
As pointed out before, this is a flawed argument (if fewer paper books are sold, warehouse space can be reduced -- unless they continue to print too many copies for each edition), but the message is clear: publishers want the e-Book sales to pay for their ancient cost structure.
Anyway, comparing e-Books with just the hardware edition isn't fair either.
Whatever happened to the paperpack edition (I know, I know, sometimes artificially kept off the shelves in the US)?
Customers who normally buy the paperback version should still pay somewhat less for the e-Book.
This implies that the costs of typesetting and marketing are incurred on a per-sale basis.
Which suggests the more copies of book that are sold, the higher the marketing and typesetting cost.
What nonsense!
Typesetting is done once. Marketing is done once.
With sufficient sales, these costs are entirely recouped. And once recouped, those costs are effectively zero.
C.
Of course economy of scale is in effect, but they have to use a general number of units sold to do the math. The only other option is to use a formula, but that doesn't work well for most readers. You could ask them how many units were used for the charts.
Of course economy of scale is in effect, but they have to use a general number of units sold to do the math. The only other option is to use a formula, but that doesn't work well for most readers. You could ask them how many units were used for the charts.
I think it's a representation of the average cost of the work spread out among all the books sold. Some books make a lot of money and might have a very slim cost when spread out to millions of copies, other books might never sell a thousand copies. There are probably far more books in the thousand copy range than the million copy range.
"If e-book sales start to replace some hardcover sales, the publishers say, they will still have many of the fixed costs associated with print editions, like warehouse space, but they will be spread among fewer print copies."
As pointed out before, this is a flawed argument (if fewer paper books are sold, warehouse space can be reduced -- unless they continue to print too many copies for each edition), but the message is clear: publishers want the e-Book sales to pay for their ancient cost structure.
Anyway, comparing e-Books with just the hardware edition isn't fair either.
Whatever happened to the paperpack edition (I know, I know, sometimes artificially kept off the shelves in the US)?
Customers who normally buy the paperback version should still pay somewhat less for the e-Book.
Your argument is flawed, because you don't understand the economics of leasing warehouse space, or owning your own.
Follow the discussion, then come back. We've covered all of this fairly well already.
And paperbacks aren't "artificially" kept off the shelves here. Can you show some proof of this? Some books never get to the paperback stage because they haven't sold well enough, and they just go out of print. Sometimes a book sells in one market, but not in another, so you may see a paperback in that one, but not in the other.
A little bit of logic and understanding goes a long way.
This implies that the costs of typesetting and marketing are incurred on a per-sale basis.
Which suggests the more copies of book that are sold, the higher the marketing and typesetting cost.
What nonsense!
Typesetting is done once. Marketing is done once.
With sufficient sales, these costs are entirely recouped. And once recouped, those costs are effectively zero.
C.
That's not really what's meant. What the chart doesn't show, is the number of books sold that some of these fixed costs are based on. There's a minimum number of books that have to be sold to pay off those fixed costs, and those costs per book are how the price of the book is determined, along with the running costs. That's one of the major reasons why trade paperbacks, and hopefully later, pocket book editions can be so much cheaper. All of those fixed costs have hopefully been paid off during the hardcover's early runs.
This implies that the costs of typesetting and marketing are incurred on a per-sale basis.
Which suggests the more copies of book that are sold, the higher the marketing and typesetting cost.
What nonsense!
Typesetting is done once. Marketing is done once.
With sufficient sales, these costs are entirely recouped. And once recouped, those costs are effectively zero.
C.
No. NO. NO. These are average cost per unit based on spreading the total expenditures across a publisher's total print runs.
Keep in mind that publishers base a books first print run on a years of experience relative to the authors' history if he/she has any. As has been pointed out previously, less than 70% of books are profitable. A lot of risk is taken for an unknown as it is a judgement call. Bad books?a big loss. Good books?a profit. Great books?help offset the loss of bad books and hopefully ups the publisher's profit.
Generally, books that make the best seller lists take a few weeks to reach that plateau. It is most often attained by customers that have paid the full price or close to it. Then the vultures swoop in, grab the warehoused editions and offer the carcasses for considerably less. For example, books by J.K. Rowling commands a premium price for a few weeks. Then the price drops significantly.
As the table shows, the cost to pre-press an ebook is not much different than a print edition. Without commanding a similar profit structure for the ebook vs a print volume, the biggest loser is the author.
[INDENT]The idea that even great authors will start their own ebook and drop print is ludicrous.
Quote:
It used to be that the author wrote and the publisher published. Publishing meant everything from editing to distribution to marketing. Now, more and more books are not being published, but instead are merely being printed.
No one walks into a bookstore and says to the clerk ? ?I?d like to buy a book that I never heard of and that you never heard of.? Someone has to do the marketing and get the word out.
The iPad will change publishing. But unless professional publishers are involved and are profitable, simply uploading a book on the internet won't do it. Sure, some will be extremely successful. But just like the iPhone/iPod touch apps, the selection will be so huge, it will be harder to make a decision.
This is silly. If you charged a million dollars, you'd only have to sell one copy, but that never seems to work. The reality of e-books that is being overlooked is that you can sell many more copies without incurring additional overhead.
And as far as publishers still having fixed costs for printing plants and warehouses -- that is their issue to deal with. And it is not their place to "slow down" ebook sales. There's nothing to prevent new companies, or cooperatives from starting as ebook-only publishers and eat their lunch.
The end result will be driven by the success of e-books. If the market takes off, all these numbers change.
This is silly. If you charged a million dollars, you'd only have to sell one copy, but that never seems to work. The reality of e-books that is being overlooked is that you can sell many more copies without incurring additional overhead.
And as far as publishers still having fixed costs for printing plants and warehouses -- that is their issue to deal with. And it is not their place to "slow down" ebook sales. There's nothing to prevent new companies, or cooperatives from starting as ebook-only publishers and eat their lunch.
The end result will be driven by the success of e-books. If the market takes off, all these numbers change.
Learn how to swim or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'
There are already. But they are virtually going un-noticed. As I said previously, you need professional publishers and basically most of the process and their expertise they bring to the table.
Your argument is flawed, because you don't understand the economics of leasing warehouse space, or owning your own.
Follow the discussion, then come back. We've covered all of this fairly well already.
And paperbacks aren't "artificially" kept off the shelves here. Can you show some proof of this? Some books never get to the paperback stage because they haven't sold well enough, and they just go out of print. Sometimes a book sells in one market, but not in another, so you may see a paperback in that one, but not in the other.
A little bit of logic and understanding goes a long way.
Thank you for your rather caustic reaction. The people that be have spoken already and I should just STFU. You must have some agenda to react like this.
And about paperbacks vs hardcovers.
Many, and I mean MANY, books never appear in the US in their paperback form.
In Europe you can order them, in the US you can't.
I don't know the economic reasons for this, but what I said is a fact and has been for decades.
My point in connection with eBook pricing is, that it is fairer to compare them with the softcover prices than with the hardcover prices.
Thank you for your rather caustic reaction. The people that be have spoken already and I should just STFU. You must have some agenda to react like this.
And about paperbacks vs hardcovers.
Many, and I mean MANY, books never appear in the US in their paperback form.
In Europe you can order them, in the US you can't.
Are they a particular genre? The opposite can be true. A lot of sci-fi, fantasy, romance and series novels never appear in hardcover. It really depends on the genre and market segment in question.
Quote:
I don't know the economic reasons for this, but what I said is a fact and has been for decades.
If the hardcover sales don't justify the risk, why make a special run?
Quote:
My point in connection with eBook pricing is, that it is fairer to compare them with the softcover prices than with the hardcover prices.
The point that I didn't notice Melgross make (maybe I missed it) is that hardcovers to softcover delay is a way to segment the market. If you're willing to pay more, you can get it much sooner. If you're willing to wait to save a little money, then you can often wait and buy the soft cover. Melgross said he's seen articles where they address softcover pricing, the publishers claim there will be a price reduction when the soft cover version is available. We'll have to see if they follow through when the time comes. Right now, the iBookstore isn't even open and the information available is pretty sketchy.
Comments
And that's the real problem, isn't it?
It's not that well known authors wouldn't be able to sell books, but where will the new talent come from? I know some people think that most will be self publishing, but really, that doesn't work for many people. Most self published work that I've read has been garbage. This is mostly stuff that isn't worthy of being published. Same thing for music. I know that there will always be someone who will like this stuff, but really!
Even the best known authors need support. And they won't sell nearly as many books as before, even with their own staffs helping. Tv talk shows don't want to be bombarded with hundreds of people calling to set up interviews. When a publisher calls, it's different. The show knows something is going on that they would like to have.
So many people have such simplistic attitudes about the way these things work.
I agree that most self-published work isn't worth the paper (or e-ink) it's printed on, but my point was that it is inevitable that some of the big name authors will want a larger cut of the pie and they'll be able to do it by selling "direct" either via iTunes, Amazon, or perhaps even through their own e-delivery web site.
Well thats good to hear... I for one would really like to see ebooks thrive. I'm far from a tree-hugger (quite far) but even I can see enormous benefits worldwide if ebooks became the norm.
- Global resources (trees, inks, trucking, warehousing).
- Versatility and potentially vast savings to disabled individuals. Special (costly) brail-editions might be all but unnecessary since the text is in digital format could be read aloud or possibly even digitally linked with existing brail device if the person has the device. I don't know the proper name but its a line of mechanical dots that can be activated to form words and sentences. Large print editions (again at an added cost due to it being a special low-quanity print run) for the elderly or weak sighted people. In todays world I'm going to bet that many of printed books, magazines and journals are simply not available in large print or brail editions due to the relatively low demand for the majority of titles published simply can't justify the expense of creating these special editions.
- Storage... todays libraries are simply unable to house and catalog the vast number of printed publications generated each year. Many share their collections with a network of libraries and books can be requested across the network and then delivered to the proper library so the person can eventually borrow it. This is a great effort but it is time consuming and wastes time and doesn't address the real problem, storage space. If ebooks become a fully embraced method of publishing and distribution, libraries could provide enormous catalogs of books with zero additional storage and no need to shuttle books from one library to another. One day I could see the physical library transformed from a roof and wall holding a ton of printed books into something totally different...
I was almost going to say the library itself (as a physical space) could be unnecessary but I think it still could hold a great value to the neighborhood it services provided the people running the library have vision to look beyond the physical books.
I understand the storage problem. We have over 3,000 books. That's why I welcome e-books, of which I now have several hundred. I've also railed at the overpricing I've seen.
But that overpricing is when an e-book is sold for the list price of the hardcover edition. This is still commonplace. You can find that on MobilePocket, and even the books section of the app store. Crazy!
But I find $13 to $15 to be fair enough for a just released book. If prices do indeed come down to the $4.99 level, that seems fair as well.
As a number of authors who have written about this have said, the rights to books may be given back to the author if the books aren't selling. Then some can, and do sell them for as little as $0.99. At that point, the authors have really got nothing to lose. Every sale, even at that price is better than no sale.
But if their books are selling, even in the low thousands, then they are going to want a more normal price as well.
...The cost of producing an ebook isn't simply the additional $1.28 cost over converting it from paper to ebook. ...
This sort of statement causes considerable skepticism for many of us. I don't know what system is being used for the conversion but if there is a recurring cost per copy then someone should be fired. As someone else has noted several of these so-called costs are actually performed by $8 to $12 per hour employees. The numbers as they are presented are either poorly explained or just dishonest. Many of us don't have a background in publishing but we do know something about computers and networks and we can recognize smoke and mirrors (i.e. lies) when we see them.
On the other hand I'm not agitated or concerned about prices being set wherever publishers want to see them. For the vast majority of books the prices are far beyond what I would pay (since they are of little interest to me) and for the others the prices are very attractive. Setting higher prices simply reduces the number of books that are of interest to me. Setting e-book prices much higher than the marginal cost simply diminishes the role of books in our society.
I agree that most self-published work isn't worth the paper (or e-ink) it's printed on, but my point was that it is inevitable that some of the big name authors will want a larger cut of the pie and they'll be able to do it by selling "direct" either via iTunes, Amazon, or perhaps even through their own e-delivery web site.
I agree. But the big name authors aren't what this is all about in the long run. It's about the viability of a strong, free press. And press means more than newspapers. It means anyone. We've always had self published authors. I know a couple, but the vast majority need publishers behind them.
I have no problem with people wanting to publish their own vanity work. A vanity press exists, and has for a very long time. E-books will make that easier, and I'm all for that.
But I don't want to see that ruin the publishing industry.
I've already linked to this, and it remains the best article written about this issue from a published author that I've seen so far. He also has links to others. It's somewhat long, but well worth the read. I just wish everyone who comments on this issue would read it.
http://www.tobiasbuckell.com/2010/01...le-via-amazon/
This sort of statement causes considerable skepticism for many of us. I don't know what system is being used for the conversion but if there is a recurring cost per copy then someone should be fired. As someone else has noted several of these so-called costs are actually performed by $8 to $12 per hour employees. The numbers as they are presented are either poorly explained or just dishonest. Many of us don't have a background in publishing but we do know something about computers and networks and we can recognize smoke and mirrors (i.e. lies) when we see them.
On the other hand I'm not agitated or concerned about prices being set wherever publishers want to see them. For the vast majority of books the prices are far beyond what I would pay (since they are of little interest to me) and for the others the prices are very attractive. Setting higher prices simply reduces the number of books that are of interest to me. Setting e-book prices much higher than the marginal cost simply diminishes the role of books in our society.
You have to look at where the money is going, and understand that all the expenses for producing a book are still valid for an e-book, other than the small amount for printing and its derivatives.
Only if you think that no one should profit from the e-book edition would you think that it's worth so little.
I really don't think that you can understand the "smoke and lies". What I do see is that you don't want to pay more than a trifle because somehow, you think that once something's in digital form, it's worth almost nothing.
I agree. But the big name authors aren't what this is all about in the long run. It's about the viability of a strong, free press. And press means more than newspapers. It means anyone. We've always had self published authors. I know a couple, but the vast majority need publishers behind them.
I have no problem with people wanting to publish their own vanity work. A vanity press exists, and has for a very long time. E-books will make that easier, and I'm all for that.
But I don't want to see that ruin the publishing industry.
I've already linked to this, and it remains the best article written about this issue from a published author that I've seen so far. He also has links to others. It's somewhat long, but well worth the read. I just wish everyone who comments on this issue would read it.
http://www.tobiasbuckell.com/2010/01...le-via-amazon/
Thanks for the article link. The author makes some interesting points, but the fact remains... all human activity, as long as it is possible be digitized (this of course includes the work of artists, writers, filmmakers, doctors, lawyers, and "experts" of all kinds, etc., etc., etc.), face vastly increased competition, if not obsolescence by virtue of the fact that the final product, the work, can be boiled down to an easily distributable and consumable product. Think about it. Everyone will have near equal access to the absolute best and latest information in any given field and about every human activity. That's a lot of competition to make a little money, and the net effect is to drive the value of everything digital as near to zero as possible.
This is why extreme specialization will continue on it's skyward path, and why personalities and/or personal contacts will likely be more important than the ultimate activity. Having said that, the "journeyman" authors, artists, and all the rest will still find room to create product and sell. Not every bit of output needs to make it's owner a lifetime of riches.
But I find $13 to $15 to be fair enough for a just released book. If prices do indeed come down to the $4.99 level, that seems fair as well.
Very good point. IMO, this is critical for eBooks to succeed. Although with that said, if it only costs a publisher $3.26 to print, store, and ship a new hardcover book, there really isn't a reason for publishers to make any price concessions for eBooks.
Thanks for the article link. The author makes some interesting points, but the fact remains... all human activity, as long as it is possible be digitized (this of course includes the work of artists, writers, filmmakers, doctors, lawyers, and "experts" of all kinds, etc., etc., etc.), face vastly increased competition, if not obsolescence by virtue of the fact that the final product, the work, can be boiled down to an easily distributable and consumable product. Think about it. Everyone will have near equal access to the absolute best and latest information in any given field and about every human activity. That's a lot of competition to make a little money, and the net effect is to drive the value of everything digital as near to zero as possible.
This is why extreme specialization will continue on it's skyward path, and why personalities and/or personal contacts will likely be more important than the ultimate activity. Having said that, the "journeyman" authors, artists, and all the rest will still find room to create product and sell. Not every bit of output needs to make it's owner a lifetime of riches.
Almost everyone wants to make money at what they're doing. The dream of authors is to be able to do it full time. Few achieve that goal. Fewer will achieve it without the publishing industry.
It's nice to think of ideals, but they never work.
As pointed out before, this is a flawed argument (if fewer paper books are sold, warehouse space can be reduced -- unless they continue to print too many copies for each edition), but the message is clear: publishers want the e-Book sales to pay for their ancient cost structure.
Anyway, comparing e-Books with just the hardware edition isn't fair either.
Whatever happened to the paperpack edition (I know, I know, sometimes artificially kept off the shelves in the US)?
Customers who normally buy the paperback version should still pay somewhat less for the e-Book.
This implies that the costs of typesetting and marketing are incurred on a per-sale basis.
Which suggests the more copies of book that are sold, the higher the marketing and typesetting cost.
What nonsense!
Typesetting is done once. Marketing is done once.
With sufficient sales, these costs are entirely recouped. And once recouped, those costs are effectively zero.
C.
image: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ok_g-popup.jpg
This implies that the costs of typesetting and marketing are incurred on a per-sale basis.
Which suggests the more copies of book that are sold, the higher the marketing and typesetting cost.
What nonsense!
Typesetting is done once. Marketing is done once.
With sufficient sales, these costs are entirely recouped. And once recouped, those costs are effectively zero.
C.
Of course economy of scale is in effect, but they have to use a general number of units sold to do the math. The only other option is to use a formula, but that doesn't work well for most readers. You could ask them how many units were used for the charts.
Of course economy of scale is in effect, but they have to use a general number of units sold to do the math. The only other option is to use a formula, but that doesn't work well for most readers. You could ask them how many units were used for the charts.
I think it's a representation of the average cost of the work spread out among all the books sold. Some books make a lot of money and might have a very slim cost when spread out to millions of copies, other books might never sell a thousand copies. There are probably far more books in the thousand copy range than the million copy range.
"If e-book sales start to replace some hardcover sales, the publishers say, they will still have many of the fixed costs associated with print editions, like warehouse space, but they will be spread among fewer print copies."
As pointed out before, this is a flawed argument (if fewer paper books are sold, warehouse space can be reduced -- unless they continue to print too many copies for each edition), but the message is clear: publishers want the e-Book sales to pay for their ancient cost structure.
Anyway, comparing e-Books with just the hardware edition isn't fair either.
Whatever happened to the paperpack edition (I know, I know, sometimes artificially kept off the shelves in the US)?
Customers who normally buy the paperback version should still pay somewhat less for the e-Book.
Your argument is flawed, because you don't understand the economics of leasing warehouse space, or owning your own.
Follow the discussion, then come back. We've covered all of this fairly well already.
And paperbacks aren't "artificially" kept off the shelves here. Can you show some proof of this? Some books never get to the paperback stage because they haven't sold well enough, and they just go out of print. Sometimes a book sells in one market, but not in another, so you may see a paperback in that one, but not in the other.
A little bit of logic and understanding goes a long way.
This implies that the costs of typesetting and marketing are incurred on a per-sale basis.
Which suggests the more copies of book that are sold, the higher the marketing and typesetting cost.
What nonsense!
Typesetting is done once. Marketing is done once.
With sufficient sales, these costs are entirely recouped. And once recouped, those costs are effectively zero.
C.
That's not really what's meant. What the chart doesn't show, is the number of books sold that some of these fixed costs are based on. There's a minimum number of books that have to be sold to pay off those fixed costs, and those costs per book are how the price of the book is determined, along with the running costs. That's one of the major reasons why trade paperbacks, and hopefully later, pocket book editions can be so much cheaper. All of those fixed costs have hopefully been paid off during the hardcover's early runs.
This implies that the costs of typesetting and marketing are incurred on a per-sale basis.
Which suggests the more copies of book that are sold, the higher the marketing and typesetting cost.
What nonsense!
Typesetting is done once. Marketing is done once.
With sufficient sales, these costs are entirely recouped. And once recouped, those costs are effectively zero.
C.
No. NO. NO. These are average cost per unit based on spreading the total expenditures across a publisher's total print runs.
Keep in mind that publishers base a books first print run on a years of experience relative to the authors' history if he/she has any. As has been pointed out previously, less than 70% of books are profitable. A lot of risk is taken for an unknown as it is a judgement call. Bad books?a big loss. Good books?a profit. Great books?help offset the loss of bad books and hopefully ups the publisher's profit.
Generally, books that make the best seller lists take a few weeks to reach that plateau. It is most often attained by customers that have paid the full price or close to it. Then the vultures swoop in, grab the warehoused editions and offer the carcasses for considerably less. For example, books by J.K. Rowling commands a premium price for a few weeks. Then the price drops significantly.
As the table shows, the cost to pre-press an ebook is not much different than a print edition. Without commanding a similar profit structure for the ebook vs a print volume, the biggest loser is the author.
[INDENT]The idea that even great authors will start their own ebook and drop print is ludicrous.
It used to be that the author wrote and the publisher published. Publishing meant everything from editing to distribution to marketing. Now, more and more books are not being published, but instead are merely being printed.
No one walks into a bookstore and says to the clerk ? ?I?d like to buy a book that I never heard of and that you never heard of.? Someone has to do the marketing and get the word out.
http://publishingperspectives.com/?p=4599
The iPad will change publishing. But unless professional publishers are involved and are profitable, simply uploading a book on the internet won't do it. Sure, some will be extremely successful. But just like the iPhone/iPod touch apps, the selection will be so huge, it will be harder to make a decision.
And as far as publishers still having fixed costs for printing plants and warehouses -- that is their issue to deal with. And it is not their place to "slow down" ebook sales. There's nothing to prevent new companies, or cooperatives from starting as ebook-only publishers and eat their lunch.
The end result will be driven by the success of e-books. If the market takes off, all these numbers change.
Learn how to swim or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'
This is silly. If you charged a million dollars, you'd only have to sell one copy, but that never seems to work. The reality of e-books that is being overlooked is that you can sell many more copies without incurring additional overhead.
And as far as publishers still having fixed costs for printing plants and warehouses -- that is their issue to deal with. And it is not their place to "slow down" ebook sales. There's nothing to prevent new companies, or cooperatives from starting as ebook-only publishers and eat their lunch.
The end result will be driven by the success of e-books. If the market takes off, all these numbers change.
Learn how to swim or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'
There are already. But they are virtually going un-noticed. As I said previously, you need professional publishers and basically most of the process and their expertise they bring to the table.
Your argument is flawed, because you don't understand the economics of leasing warehouse space, or owning your own.
Follow the discussion, then come back. We've covered all of this fairly well already.
And paperbacks aren't "artificially" kept off the shelves here. Can you show some proof of this? Some books never get to the paperback stage because they haven't sold well enough, and they just go out of print. Sometimes a book sells in one market, but not in another, so you may see a paperback in that one, but not in the other.
A little bit of logic and understanding goes a long way.
Thank you for your rather caustic reaction. The people that be have spoken already and I should just STFU. You must have some agenda to react like this.
And about paperbacks vs hardcovers.
Many, and I mean MANY, books never appear in the US in their paperback form.
In Europe you can order them, in the US you can't.
I don't know the economic reasons for this, but what I said is a fact and has been for decades.
My point in connection with eBook pricing is, that it is fairer to compare them with the softcover prices than with the hardcover prices.
Thank you for your rather caustic reaction. The people that be have spoken already and I should just STFU. You must have some agenda to react like this.
And about paperbacks vs hardcovers.
Many, and I mean MANY, books never appear in the US in their paperback form.
In Europe you can order them, in the US you can't.
Are they a particular genre? The opposite can be true. A lot of sci-fi, fantasy, romance and series novels never appear in hardcover. It really depends on the genre and market segment in question.
I don't know the economic reasons for this, but what I said is a fact and has been for decades.
If the hardcover sales don't justify the risk, why make a special run?
My point in connection with eBook pricing is, that it is fairer to compare them with the softcover prices than with the hardcover prices.
The point that I didn't notice Melgross make (maybe I missed it) is that hardcovers to softcover delay is a way to segment the market. If you're willing to pay more, you can get it much sooner. If you're willing to wait to save a little money, then you can often wait and buy the soft cover. Melgross said he's seen articles where they address softcover pricing, the publishers claim there will be a price reduction when the soft cover version is available. We'll have to see if they follow through when the time comes. Right now, the iBookstore isn't even open and the information available is pretty sketchy.