A previous Apple patent on cooling had a waterproof layer between the keyboard and internals that allowed the flow of air but not liquids. Is there anything viable about such technology today?
Perhaps Steve Jobs thinks the licensing fees for Gore-Tex® are a "big bag of pain."
I think they should find a way to transfer all the heat to the display cover. If you make this one slightly higher and rip it, you could get a big passive cooling unit. The benefit would be a very quiet cooling (aid at the very least) and you heat up a part for a change that nobody cares about. Nobody wants the palmrests to serve as passive cooling heatsinks or the bottom of the notebook.
All the have to figure out is how to transfer heat fast over something that allows bending. Or you'd have to move the hot parts into the screen lid.
This also depends off course on how much of a problem the heat might be for the display panel.
BTW I think the problem is not that the Internals get hotter. They don't. The problem is the Notebooks get slimmer and should still cool everything sufficiently at a very low noise level.
Is this why current MacBooks cannot be configured to remain running with the lid closed? Are they prone to overheat?
What exactly do you mean?
I use my MBP 13" 99% of the time with the lid closed and hooked up to a 24" screen. It doesn't run hot, but then again, I *always* have it sit on a cooling pad with fans.
Funny thing, if I place something (even a small stack of paper) on the closed lid, it does get hot!
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but Mac OS X tends to run about 10 Degress C hotter than windows for me. On my macbook OS X idles roughly around 40 C where as on a windows partition it runs about 30 C idle. I thought this was a bit strange but i got the same results on a mac mini and on a Hackintosh with an AMD CPU.
Is this why current MacBooks cannot be configured to remain running with the lid closed? Are they prone to overheat?
Can't you?
On my old MBP I was able to connect an external display and keyboard, then close the laptop's lid and wake it up with the external keyboard. Worked very well for everyday things but if you're encoding a video remember to open it again as it'll get very, very hot!
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but Mac OS X tends to run about 10 Degress C hotter than windows for me. On my macbook OS X idles roughly around 40 C where as on a windows partition it runs about 30 C idle. I thought this was a bit strange but i got the same results on a mac mini and on a Hackintosh with an AMD CPU.
This is also the case on my hackintosh (running Apple's native CPU power management) I get idle temps of about 35 degrees. On Windows I get about 19 degrees idle. This is partly because Windows clocks my CPU down to 1.6GHz when idle.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but Mac OS X tends to run about 10 Degress C hotter than windows for me. On my macbook OS X idles roughly around 40 C where as on a windows partition it runs about 30 C idle. I thought this was a bit strange but i got the same results on a mac mini and on a Hackintosh with an AMD CPU.
Were the fan speeds the same? It might just be a case of OSX not ramping up fan speeds as quickly as Windows. Apple seems to like keeping things as quiet as possible until the heat actually becomes a problem. Of course there are programs that allow you to control fan speed yourself if you don't like how OSX is managing it.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but Mac OS X tends to run about 10 Degress C hotter than windows for me. On my macbook OS X idles roughly around 40 C where as on a windows partition it runs about 30 C idle. I thought this was a bit strange but i got the same results on a mac mini and on a Hackintosh with an AMD CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2
Were the fan speeds the same? It might just be a case of OSX not ramping up fan speeds as quickly as Windows. Apple seems to like keeping things as quiet as possible until the heat actually becomes a problem. Of course there are programs that allow you to control fan speed yourself if you don't like how OSX is managing it.
Heat has not been a problem on my 17" ub/MBP w/ SSD. Could be that it runs cooler with a SSD than it would if it had a HDD. I was planning to purchase a cooling bar that sales for $40, but my daughter suggested using those rubber door stops to elevate the bottom so there is greater airflow and hence better heat dissipation. For $1.29 for a pair, best investment I've made. Runs cooler, but as stated, heat was never a problem. Haven't noticed any temperature difference between running OS X or Windows on the MBP. You really can't tell when data is being accessed from or stored to a SSD.
Also, you have to understand the full implications of a "temperature difference" between two sides. One side can become quite cold, but the other side will become that much hotter. What do you do with that heat? You actually create even more heat than what you started with since you're basically putting in a lot of energy in order to manage the heat you're trying to get rid of.
The advantage is, however, that you can have more control the heat from the Peltier more easily, perhaps. But again, it can use a lot of power, so I'm not sure how it would end up being used in a laptop.
I think that their consideration of ports and their effect on airflow is smart though.
Apple can actually get patents for technology as obvious as this?
I have an idea about encoding data using just ones and zeros. Maybe I should patent it.
Thermoelectric cooling with TC type junctions has been known for years so I have to wonder what Apple could be adding to the technology base to even justify the effort of a patent application. There just seems to be to many prexisting examples of this tech to make the application sucessful.
As to the other patents they are more interesting but I still have to wonder about the one that uses the lid. The question is how are they moving the thermal energy there. About the only possible way would be via a liquid. That of course leads to reliability problems. Right now though I do not know of another way of moving heat through a hinge. A hinge by the way is an extremely poor heat transfer device on it's own.
The Peltier effect is a way of using electricity to pump heat from one location to another. It is hugely inefficient compared to mechanical fans and wouldn't help battery life at all, but is completely solid state and can fit into any size or shape package.
(The Peltier effect's converse operation is called the Seebeck effect and it's a way of turning heat differentials into electricity. In theory, if you had an iPhone that was cooled by Peltier it could recharge by the difference in temperature between your leg and the outside air, but again the Seebeck effect is very inefficient and you wouldn't get much juice from it.)
Perhaps Steve Jobs thinks the licensing fees for Gore-Tex® are a "big bag of pain."
Gore-Tex has a whole division devoted to the electronics industry. They focus on materials and interconnects. So it is not impossible that Apple simply patented the usage of a material the Gore would supply.
These patents that the PTO are granting are really becoming entirely asinine.
The USB one seems to be patenting the concept of cooling a computer wherever you can find a hole for airflow. I think I'd do the same thing for houses and call it a window.
The second regarding bimetals is ancient and has been in use for decades if not longer. So has ion cooling.
Why doesn't the PTO grand Apple a patent on water next.
So where can I buy one of these laptops or other devices with Peltier cooling?
I'd like to buy one.
Link me please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klamerus
These patents that the PTO are granting are really becoming entirely asinine.
The USB one seems to be patenting the concept of cooling a computer wherever you can find a hole for airflow. I think I'd do the same thing for houses and call it a window.
The second regarding bimetals is ancient and has been in use for decades if not longer. So has ion cooling.
Why doesn't the PTO grand Apple a patent on water next.
It's about damned time. The current crop of laptops will get into the 90C range, sometimes breaking 100C under load. That's beyond ridiculous. That Apple could even release laptops that run so hot blows my mind. Then again, Jobs would rather sell quiet laptops that slow roast themselves than sell one that's just a little noisier.
Hm.... revived cooling technology. In the past, peltier cooling device had issues with moisture build up. I am sure the technology has evolved in nearly a decade since I've heard last.
Comments
Apple can actually get patents for technology as obvious as this?
I have an idea about encoding data using just ones and zeros. Maybe I should patent it.
Getting a patent and have absolute rights to a technology are different. The patent office isn't verifying actual rights, that is for the courts.
Your "idea" could be patentable and even be profitable, it just depends how you encode these ones and zeros.
A previous Apple patent on cooling had a waterproof layer between the keyboard and internals that allowed the flow of air but not liquids. Is there anything viable about such technology today?
Perhaps Steve Jobs thinks the licensing fees for Gore-Tex® are a "big bag of pain."
All the have to figure out is how to transfer heat fast over something that allows bending. Or you'd have to move the hot parts into the screen lid.
This also depends off course on how much of a problem the heat might be for the display panel.
BTW I think the problem is not that the Internals get hotter. They don't. The problem is the Notebooks get slimmer and should still cool everything sufficiently at a very low noise level.
Perhaps Steve Jobs thinks the licensing fees for Gore-Tex® are a "big bag of pain."
If you insist on quoting, at least get it right. ...."bag of hurt", not bag of pain. SoKay?
.
Is this why current MacBooks cannot be configured to remain running with the lid closed? Are they prone to overheat?
What exactly do you mean?
I use my MBP 13" 99% of the time with the lid closed and hooked up to a 24" screen. It doesn't run hot, but then again, I *always* have it sit on a cooling pad with fans.
Funny thing, if I place something (even a small stack of paper) on the closed lid, it does get hot!
.
Is this why current MacBooks cannot be configured to remain running with the lid closed? Are they prone to overheat?
Can't you?
On my old MBP I was able to connect an external display and keyboard, then close the laptop's lid and wake it up with the external keyboard. Worked very well for everyday things but if you're encoding a video remember to open it again as it'll get very, very hot!
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but Mac OS X tends to run about 10 Degress C hotter than windows for me. On my macbook OS X idles roughly around 40 C where as on a windows partition it runs about 30 C idle. I thought this was a bit strange but i got the same results on a mac mini and on a Hackintosh with an AMD CPU.
This is also the case on my hackintosh (running Apple's native CPU power management) I get idle temps of about 35 degrees. On Windows I get about 19 degrees idle. This is partly because Windows clocks my CPU down to 1.6GHz when idle.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but Mac OS X tends to run about 10 Degress C hotter than windows for me. On my macbook OS X idles roughly around 40 C where as on a windows partition it runs about 30 C idle. I thought this was a bit strange but i got the same results on a mac mini and on a Hackintosh with an AMD CPU.
Were the fan speeds the same? It might just be a case of OSX not ramping up fan speeds as quickly as Windows. Apple seems to like keeping things as quiet as possible until the heat actually becomes a problem. Of course there are programs that allow you to control fan speed yourself if you don't like how OSX is managing it.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but Mac OS X tends to run about 10 Degress C hotter than windows for me. On my macbook OS X idles roughly around 40 C where as on a windows partition it runs about 30 C idle. I thought this was a bit strange but i got the same results on a mac mini and on a Hackintosh with an AMD CPU.
Were the fan speeds the same? It might just be a case of OSX not ramping up fan speeds as quickly as Windows. Apple seems to like keeping things as quiet as possible until the heat actually becomes a problem. Of course there are programs that allow you to control fan speed yourself if you don't like how OSX is managing it.
Heat has not been a problem on my 17" ub/MBP w/ SSD. Could be that it runs cooler with a SSD than it would if it had a HDD. I was planning to purchase a cooling bar that sales for $40, but my daughter suggested using those rubber door stops to elevate the bottom so there is greater airflow and hence better heat dissipation. For $1.29 for a pair, best investment I've made. Runs cooler, but as stated, heat was never a problem. Haven't noticed any temperature difference between running OS X or Windows on the MBP. You really can't tell when data is being accessed from or stored to a SSD.
Also, you have to understand the full implications of a "temperature difference" between two sides. One side can become quite cold, but the other side will become that much hotter. What do you do with that heat? You actually create even more heat than what you started with since you're basically putting in a lot of energy in order to manage the heat you're trying to get rid of.
The advantage is, however, that you can have more control the heat from the Peltier more easily, perhaps. But again, it can use a lot of power, so I'm not sure how it would end up being used in a laptop.
I think that their consideration of ports and their effect on airflow is smart though.
Apple can actually get patents for technology as obvious as this?
I have an idea about encoding data using just ones and zeros. Maybe I should patent it.
Thermoelectric cooling with TC type junctions has been known for years so I have to wonder what Apple could be adding to the technology base to even justify the effort of a patent application. There just seems to be to many prexisting examples of this tech to make the application sucessful.
As to the other patents they are more interesting but I still have to wonder about the one that uses the lid. The question is how are they moving the thermal energy there. About the only possible way would be via a liquid. That of course leads to reliability problems. Right now though I do not know of another way of moving heat through a hinge. A hinge by the way is an extremely poor heat transfer device on it's own.
Dave
The Peltier effect is a way of using electricity to pump heat from one location to another. It is hugely inefficient compared to mechanical fans and wouldn't help battery life at all, but is completely solid state and can fit into any size or shape package.
(The Peltier effect's converse operation is called the Seebeck effect and it's a way of turning heat differentials into electricity. In theory, if you had an iPhone that was cooled by Peltier it could recharge by the difference in temperature between your leg and the outside air, but again the Seebeck effect is very inefficient and you wouldn't get much juice from it.)
Thanks a bunch for explaining.
Perhaps Steve Jobs thinks the licensing fees for Gore-Tex® are a "big bag of pain."
Gore-Tex has a whole division devoted to the electronics industry. They focus on materials and interconnects. So it is not impossible that Apple simply patented the usage of a material the Gore would supply.
Dave
The USB one seems to be patenting the concept of cooling a computer wherever you can find a hole for airflow. I think I'd do the same thing for houses and call it a window.
The second regarding bimetals is ancient and has been in use for decades if not longer. So has ion cooling.
Why doesn't the PTO grand Apple a patent on water next.
I'd like to buy one.
Link me please.
These patents that the PTO are granting are really becoming entirely asinine.
The USB one seems to be patenting the concept of cooling a computer wherever you can find a hole for airflow. I think I'd do the same thing for houses and call it a window.
The second regarding bimetals is ancient and has been in use for decades if not longer. So has ion cooling.
Why doesn't the PTO grand Apple a patent on water next.