It would be nice so I don't have to worry about license keys anymore...
no way, apple isn't poised to support gaming well. Steam is way more exciting to get game developers on board. Also, an apple program/app store would be a recipe for censorship.
Apple needs to open up its devices to allow outside developers to sell their own iphone, ipad, apple tv, ipod touch, and possible if it opens a mac software store.
Outside companies need to be able to sell programs without censorship. which in apples case can also go towards program competing with their business lines. Apple could theoretically decide to withhold distribution for software which competes with them in an area. ie netflix, google voice, etc. hard to say. but until all areas allow for outside app/program installation. ie on iphone, i wouldn't put tons of belief that Apple would stop their current behavior.
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All of this is great news for Mac owners, i love this. can't wait for Battlefield Bad Company 2. pretty neat stuff.
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm feeling too lazy right now to go looking it up myself.
Are video games really a significant computer market segment?
I mean, I'm just thinking about it from my personal perspective here. People who play video games are certainly very vocal, and no doubt make themselves seem like a larger market segment than they are. But it just seems apparent to me that that segment must be truly dwarfed by the business, workstation and "home telecommunications" (for lack of a better term; I mean the surf-the-web-Skype-email-IM typical home user) markets.
I guess I have two questions. First, what fraction of the total computer software market is video games (and I guess you could break that down into what fraction of software sold to individuals, as opposed to businesses, is games). And second, is there evidence to suggest that video games drives computer sales on a significant scale? In other words, is there evidence to expect that this Steam thing will result in more Mac sales for Apple, for example?
I'm sincerely asking, because I truly just don't know. My perspective on the market as a whole is really narrow. I know a vast number of people, through professional contacts, who spent a great deal of time using Macs, and not one of them has ever expressed an interest in buying video game software. Some have Xboxes or whatever they're called these days, but that's a totally separate market, right?
Honest question. If anybody has info on this, or handy links to share, I'd very much appreciate it.
but BRAND NEW re writes for APPLES intel/snowy platfrom's
Actually, that's still a port since it was originally not on the Mac platform, regardless of it being native code or not. What this ISN'T is virtualization or emulation.
Apple needs to open up its devices to allow outside developers to sell their own iphone, ipad, apple tv, ipod touch, and possible if it opens a mac software store.
Outside companies need to be able to sell programs without censorship. which in apples case can also go towards program competing with their business lines. Apple could theoretically decide to withhold distribution for software which competes with them in an area. ie netflix, google voice, etc. hard to say. but until all areas allow for outside app/program installation. ie on iphone, i wouldn't put tons of belief that Apple would stop their current behavior.
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In theory/principle, I would love to agree with you. However, in practice, not so much. If there is no one to impose standards (or for lack of a better term 'censorship') then any such venture as a software store for the Mac, would devolve into the sort of haphazard mess that one gets when they look at the average Linux software repository. It's a double-edged sword, in that I love the idea of having the freedom to do whatever I want, yet dredging through the mire of thousands of unmonitored, unchecked bullshit apps that all do the same thing gets tedious *fast*.
If there is no one to impose standards (or for lack of a better term 'censorship') then any such venture as a software store for the Mac, would devolve into the sort of haphazard mess that one gets when they look at the average Linux software repository.
I forget who said it first, but it's surely true: The problem with being "open" is that just any old crap can fall in.
Do the Mac desktop machines have decent graphics cards?
Middle of the road for the most part. To get a good one you have to spend some money. An iMac with one of the better ATI cards will put you back about $2000.00.
I forget who said it first, but it's surely true: The problem with being "open" is that just any old crap can fall in.
The thing with Linux in particular, though, is that it has no unifying force behind it, resulting in fragmentation, at every possible level of the OS, between "competing" solutions. There's no ground fertile enough for software that doesn't suck to take root. Anyone with a copy of OS X can develop for OS X, and yet we see a LOT less crap there. The iPhone OS has tons of crap because there's still a gold rush going on there, and recently we've seen Apple finally step in to clean some of it up.
The overall "culture" of each userbase probably plays a part, too. You might even say the Mac community is elitist in a good way, in that it rejects software that doesn't measure up to its standards. The iPhone community has a lot of people (even the majority? Not sure...) coming from Windows, with built-in expectations for the same kind of "anything goes" software market. Linux...well, uh..."by programmers, for programmers".
Personally, the game I would most like to see ported to Mac at launch is Star Wars: The Old Republic. I have seriously high hopes for this particular MMO. I haven't found a single MMO in the past 10 years to duplicate my level of enthusiasm as the original EQ, before Planes of Power which turned it into a raiding game.
Someone else was commenting about Apple moving to their own processor line for their Macs. I seriously don't see this happening. The move to Intel in my mind was a great thing. People keep harping on the graphics, but I got a GeForce 8800 GT in my Mac Pro and it's just fine for me. I'm not sure how this is a weakness. Maybe this is referring to the non-upgradeable iMacs?
Do the Mac desktop machines have decent graphics cards?
There aren't any. They have one SFF, a bunch of AIOS, and a professional workstation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarborGuy
Actually, that's still a port since it was originally not on the Mac platform, regardless of it being native code or not. What this ISN'T is virtualization or emulation.
Do we know that. Have they actually said its native port and not a version of cider? Doing this many titles concurrently would take a lot lot resources using traditional porting methods.
Meh, that's the only reaction I can give to this steam stuff (burnt out on CS:Source but whatever). The rise of consoles has really killed pc gaming, i hope it takes off on mac but I hope there are enough sales to drive Steam on mac and pull in more devs to make more games.
Now if you'll excuse me, it's back to Final Fantasy XIII
There aren't any. They have one SFF, a bunch of AIOS, and a professional workstation.
Do we know that. Have they actually said its native port and not a version of cider? Doing this many titles concurrently would take a lot lot resources using traditional porting methods.
yes we know this. also, the games that they are launching are all valve titles using the source engine so really they only have to port that. other games from other developers will happen when they happen.
I also feel the problem with gaming on the Mac is the general lack of possible upgrades. If you have a Mac Pro, you are able to get a different video card if you want, but it's very hard to swap from ATI to nVidia's latest and greatest every refresh cycle. While those enthusiasts are in the minority, they always want the best and Apple can't deliver. Got an iMac? Too bad, you can't upgrade that video card.
You might even say the Mac community is elitist in a good way, in that it rejects software that doesn't measure up to its standards.
Agreed, mostly. Except I question whether there's such a thing as a "Mac community." Apple sold, what, ten million Macs in the last quarter? (Number totally pulled out my ear. Could be a tenth of that, or ten times more, I really don't know.) How many of those people consider themselves to be part of a "community?" Precious few, I'd dare say.
From where I sit, it looks to me like the overwhelming majority of people who either own Macs themselves, or use them as part of their work life, could give a damn about "community." They're not hobbyists. They don't consider their Macs to be defining characteristics of their lives, any more than people who wear Levi's jeans consider themselves part of the "Levi's community."
What Apple does have going for it is this rigid commitment to standards. You might not always agree with their standards, but you can't dispute that they have them. Apple is not a company that releases just any-old-thing. They don't care about being first to market, or really about universal appeal. Remember the Performa? For a while there, Apple was selling something like forty distinct models of home computer. Every one was slightly different, with the theory that you could pick the one that's just right for you, and we all know about the paradox of choice.
Even now, go to Dell's Web site. I just did, and clicked on "home" (does it matter where I intend to use my computer?) and then "laptops," and I was bombarded by a dizzying array of like twenty different laptops, all with tiny little pictures and tiny little specifications in tiny little print. Am I supposed to believe that every one of those is uniquely awesome? Am I supposed to think that each one is the epitome of engineering and design? Maybe, but what I actually think is that Dell cares more about volume than about quality, and they approach selling computers with the same enthusiasm that McDonald's brings to selling hamburgers.
Apple is a company (and they're not the only one, of course) that stands up and says, "'Good enough' isn't. We can do better." And I like that. Even when it results in products that don't fit my needs (like the current 15" MacBook Pro that no longer has an Express Card slot), I admire their willingness to draw a line in the air and say "You must be at least this awesome to be an Apple product."
For becoming really rellevant Mac gaming has to keep price level with the Win versions. At least for COD and MOH the mac versions kept the full price well after the Win versions were bundled and sold for a fraction of the original cost.
But if I van get Valves Orange box at a decent price and Apple release the "xmac", then I am all for buing gamels for the mac againg. Back in 1992 it was actually a game, Hellcats, that was one of the reasons to get a 16 MHz LCII instead of a more powerfull 40 MHz 386
Comments
Can we get a Mac Apps Store please?
It would be nice so I don't have to worry about license keys anymore...
no way, apple isn't poised to support gaming well. Steam is way more exciting to get game developers on board. Also, an apple program/app store would be a recipe for censorship.
Apple needs to open up its devices to allow outside developers to sell their own iphone, ipad, apple tv, ipod touch, and possible if it opens a mac software store.
Outside companies need to be able to sell programs without censorship. which in apples case can also go towards program competing with their business lines. Apple could theoretically decide to withhold distribution for software which competes with them in an area. ie netflix, google voice, etc. hard to say. but until all areas allow for outside app/program installation. ie on iphone, i wouldn't put tons of belief that Apple would stop their current behavior.
----------------------
All of this is great news for Mac owners, i love this. can't wait for Battlefield Bad Company 2. pretty neat stuff.
Wow. It looks like maybe the Mac OS is reaching some sort of critical mass.
Can a good selection of other software categories be far behind? About time!
I just hope Apple doesn't go and change the OS anytime soon. It just seems like something Apple would do in an "oh, well" fashion.
Are video games really a significant computer market segment?
I mean, I'm just thinking about it from my personal perspective here. People who play video games are certainly very vocal, and no doubt make themselves seem like a larger market segment than they are. But it just seems apparent to me that that segment must be truly dwarfed by the business, workstation and "home telecommunications" (for lack of a better term; I mean the surf-the-web-Skype-email-IM typical home user) markets.
I guess I have two questions. First, what fraction of the total computer software market is video games (and I guess you could break that down into what fraction of software sold to individuals, as opposed to businesses, is games). And second, is there evidence to suggest that video games drives computer sales on a significant scale? In other words, is there evidence to expect that this Steam thing will result in more Mac sales for Apple, for example?
I'm sincerely asking, because I truly just don't know. My perspective on the market as a whole is really narrow. I know a vast number of people, through professional contacts, who spent a great deal of time using Macs, and not one of them has ever expressed an interest in buying video game software. Some have Xboxes or whatever they're called these days, but that's a totally separate market, right?
Honest question. If anybody has info on this, or handy links to share, I'd very much appreciate it.
NOT PORT
but BRAND NEW re writes for APPLES intel/snowy platfrom's
Actually, that's still a port since it was originally not on the Mac platform, regardless of it being native code or not. What this ISN'T is virtualization or emulation.
Do you think they'll slow down the game speed by about 70% for the Mac verison of Left4Dead? Maybe it will then be playable? (Maybe).
The game is a twitchy mess. It was tolerable on the Xbox with a real controller. PC, forget it. What a joke.
Wow, I thought the opposite. I have Orange Box and L4D for the 360 as well as the PC, and I thought the 360 versions were horrible.
Apple needs to open up its devices to allow outside developers to sell their own iphone, ipad, apple tv, ipod touch, and possible if it opens a mac software store.
Outside companies need to be able to sell programs without censorship. which in apples case can also go towards program competing with their business lines. Apple could theoretically decide to withhold distribution for software which competes with them in an area. ie netflix, google voice, etc. hard to say. but until all areas allow for outside app/program installation. ie on iphone, i wouldn't put tons of belief that Apple would stop their current behavior.
----------------------
In theory/principle, I would love to agree with you. However, in practice, not so much. If there is no one to impose standards (or for lack of a better term 'censorship') then any such venture as a software store for the Mac, would devolve into the sort of haphazard mess that one gets when they look at the average Linux software repository. It's a double-edged sword, in that I love the idea of having the freedom to do whatever I want, yet dredging through the mire of thousands of unmonitored, unchecked bullshit apps that all do the same thing gets tedious *fast*.
If there is no one to impose standards (or for lack of a better term 'censorship') then any such venture as a software store for the Mac, would devolve into the sort of haphazard mess that one gets when they look at the average Linux software repository.
I forget who said it first, but it's surely true: The problem with being "open" is that just any old crap can fall in.
If only the forthcoming Thief 4 was being built with the Source Engine, I would be in Mac gaming heaven and would die a happy man.
I think the last one was based on the Unreal engine. Maybe again. Another reason to hope for Epic to get to the mac.
HAHA. The Mac is picking up steam! Get it?
Wah - wah - wah - wah...
Do you think they'll slow down the game speed by about 70% for the Mac verison of Left4Dead? Maybe it will then be playable? (Maybe).
The game is a twitchy mess. It was tolerable on the Xbox with a real controller. PC, forget it. What a joke.
Keyboard options: advanced: Enable developer console
Start game
`
sv_cheats 1
host_timescale 0.3
Voila. Game has slowed down by 70%. Effect is retained across level loads and game saves.
Do the Mac desktop machines have decent graphics cards?
Middle of the road for the most part. To get a good one you have to spend some money. An iMac with one of the better ATI cards will put you back about $2000.00.
I forget who said it first, but it's surely true: The problem with being "open" is that just any old crap can fall in.
The thing with Linux in particular, though, is that it has no unifying force behind it, resulting in fragmentation, at every possible level of the OS, between "competing" solutions. There's no ground fertile enough for software that doesn't suck to take root. Anyone with a copy of OS X can develop for OS X, and yet we see a LOT less crap there. The iPhone OS has tons of crap because there's still a gold rush going on there, and recently we've seen Apple finally step in to clean some of it up.
The overall "culture" of each userbase probably plays a part, too. You might even say the Mac community is elitist in a good way, in that it rejects software that doesn't measure up to its standards. The iPhone community has a lot of people (even the majority? Not sure...) coming from Windows, with built-in expectations for the same kind of "anything goes" software market. Linux...well, uh..."by programmers, for programmers".
Someone else was commenting about Apple moving to their own processor line for their Macs. I seriously don't see this happening. The move to Intel in my mind was a great thing. People keep harping on the graphics, but I got a GeForce 8800 GT in my Mac Pro and it's just fine for me. I'm not sure how this is a weakness. Maybe this is referring to the non-upgradeable iMacs?
Do the Mac desktop machines have decent graphics cards?
There aren't any. They have one SFF, a bunch of AIOS, and a professional workstation.
Actually, that's still a port since it was originally not on the Mac platform, regardless of it being native code or not. What this ISN'T is virtualization or emulation.
Do we know that. Have they actually said its native port and not a version of cider? Doing this many titles concurrently would take a lot lot resources using traditional porting methods.
Now if you'll excuse me, it's back to Final Fantasy XIII
There aren't any. They have one SFF, a bunch of AIOS, and a professional workstation.
Do we know that. Have they actually said its native port and not a version of cider? Doing this many titles concurrently would take a lot lot resources using traditional porting methods.
yes we know this. also, the games that they are launching are all valve titles using the source engine so really they only have to port that. other games from other developers will happen when they happen.
You might even say the Mac community is elitist in a good way, in that it rejects software that doesn't measure up to its standards.
Agreed, mostly. Except I question whether there's such a thing as a "Mac community." Apple sold, what, ten million Macs in the last quarter? (Number totally pulled out my ear. Could be a tenth of that, or ten times more, I really don't know.) How many of those people consider themselves to be part of a "community?" Precious few, I'd dare say.
From where I sit, it looks to me like the overwhelming majority of people who either own Macs themselves, or use them as part of their work life, could give a damn about "community." They're not hobbyists. They don't consider their Macs to be defining characteristics of their lives, any more than people who wear Levi's jeans consider themselves part of the "Levi's community."
What Apple does have going for it is this rigid commitment to standards. You might not always agree with their standards, but you can't dispute that they have them. Apple is not a company that releases just any-old-thing. They don't care about being first to market, or really about universal appeal. Remember the Performa? For a while there, Apple was selling something like forty distinct models of home computer. Every one was slightly different, with the theory that you could pick the one that's just right for you, and we all know about the paradox of choice.
Even now, go to Dell's Web site. I just did, and clicked on "home" (does it matter where I intend to use my computer?) and then "laptops," and I was bombarded by a dizzying array of like twenty different laptops, all with tiny little pictures and tiny little specifications in tiny little print. Am I supposed to believe that every one of those is uniquely awesome? Am I supposed to think that each one is the epitome of engineering and design? Maybe, but what I actually think is that Dell cares more about volume than about quality, and they approach selling computers with the same enthusiasm that McDonald's brings to selling hamburgers.
Apple is a company (and they're not the only one, of course) that stands up and says, "'Good enough' isn't. We can do better." And I like that. Even when it results in products that don't fit my needs (like the current 15" MacBook Pro that no longer has an Express Card slot), I admire their willingness to draw a line in the air and say "You must be at least this awesome to be an Apple product."
Gotta start somewhere, man.
But if I van get Valves Orange box at a decent price and Apple release the "xmac", then I am all for buing gamels for the mac againg. Back in 1992 it was actually a game, Hellcats, that was one of the reasons to get a 16 MHz LCII instead of a more powerfull 40 MHz 386