Well, I don't agree that the android OS is going to end badly, primarily because it's free to license for phone manufacturers vs the licensing fees they would incur for Windows Mobile and of course they cant license IOS. That being said, I DO agree that the Android UI is horrible.
As far as the IOS stagnating, I agree that's completely off base. They have clearly been growing it just as they have OSX, with regular steady updates. Ironically, I do think they should spend MORE time on the OSX UI which feels rather dated to me compared to Win 7.
I sortof felt this way also initially. But I have since altered my opinion to some degree. I don't think OS X is dated, I just think that Windows 7 just leaped forward to finally catch up. Sure there may be a few things W7 does better, but also many things OS X does better. I think mainly I am just in an uncomfortable position because it feels very weird to have a Windows product be an actual competitor to OS X. In the past Windows was always (in my opinion) way behind the Mac OS. The recent improvements to Windows that close the gap are a bit off-putting. I'll get used to it though because we need good competition. This should spur Apple on to really great things that will put it way out in front again. And then I can rest a bit easier.
Then why did you say a few moments ago that it surprises you that RIM, who have been steadily pumping out new product refreshes over the past year, is selling more than a yet-to-be-updated iPhone model?
I was surprised because I thought that Apple had finally gained traction. I was unaware that RIM is becoming increasingly successful, while the iPhone has been failing to gain market share. Maybe I shouldn't have been surprised at this, but I was.
I was surprised because I thought that Apple had finally gained traction. I was unaware that RIM is becoming increasingly successful, while the iPhone has been failing to gain market share. Maybe I shouldn't have been surprised at this, but I was.
Even though this was amply explained on the sites from which you linked those graphs? So you're just the type that looks for images without any regard to context. Gotcha.
Textbook troll behavior. And why you chose to interject this line of discussion into a thread about iPhone multitasking...well, I wouldn't presume to rationalize that for you.
A graph of facts will never give you reasons. That's called a causality relationship and it needs a totally different mathematical analysis
Yes. Hence my comment.
Do we have any objective information as to why the iPhone is falling further and further behind the Blackberry?
The opinions presented so far include:
The iOS is technically inferior.
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.
Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished, or whether this trend will reverse when they finally catch up to the competitors with the new iOS. I'll remain optimistic about the iOS in the meantime.
Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished
And herein lies the problem. You don't understand the graph, its meaning, nor its relevance. Yet you extract all sort of odd conclusions from it, which are most of the time fantastic, magic, exaggerated or plainly wrong.
And why you chose to interject this line of discussion into a thread about iPhone multitasking...well, I wouldn't presume to rationalize that for you.
My original comment was "What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating."
The nexus between Apple's slow modernization of iOS and the current market stagnation of the iOS was interesting to me.
From what I have seen, the complaints about the iPhone rarely mention the hardware; what bugs people is the software. The article was about Apple finally (someday...) adding basic features to the software. I saw a connection, and wanted to explore it.
Lots of folks here seem to think that the current stagnation is directly tied to the delays in implementing common features in the iOS. Others think that the stagnation is not due to the old OS, but rather, to other factors.
I have no firm conclusions, but I enjoy discussing the technology and the market.
My original comment was "What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating."
The nexus between Apple's slow modernization of iOS and the current market stagnation of the iOS was interesting to me.
From what I have seen, the complaints about the iPhone rarely mention the hardware; what bugs people is the software. The article was about Apple finally (someday...) adding basic features to the software. I saw a connection, and wanted to explore it.
Lots of folks here seem to think that the current stagnation is directly tied to the delays in implementing common features in the iOS. Others think that the stagnation is not due to the old OS, but rather, to other factors.
I have no firm conclusions, but I enjoy discussing the technology and the market.
Yet many others disagree that there is stagnation. And that is what you cannot grasp.
Do we have any objective information as to why the iPhone is falling further and further behind the Blackberry?
The opinions presented so far include:
The iOS is technically inferior.
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.
Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished, or whether this trend will reverse when they finally catch up to the competitors with the new iOS. I'll remain optimistic about the iOS in the meantime.
The way you tend to word things are laughable. Since graphs seem so much more visually impressive than text, lets put some perspective on this;
There are no "huge mistakes" here. The iPhone has always been second best, in terms of marketshare. Regardless of you having realized that or not, it's true. The business world is firmly entrenched with RIM, and this will not change in the foreseeable future. There are many parallels going on here in relation to desktop marketshare, but here we get to see what happens when Microsoft doesn't have a choke hold on the industry and complete vendor lock-in of the market. Apple is following the same product model they have always followed for everything they've put out. A person either likes the iPhone as it is, or they don't. There are no compromises on that, and quite frankly it's staggering that they've done as well as they have. Then again, I don't think Apple ever really wants to be #1 at anything, since it limits what they can do. I've tinkered with many many different models of Blackberry's, and I'd be hard pressed to be able to tell any of them apart.
Yeah - both the one-phone and the one-carrier strategies are huge mistakes. It is ironic though, that Apple popularized the market segment, and now RIM is eating their lunch.
Kind of like what happened to the GUI OS business: Apple was first (well, not first, but first in the consumer market), but lost out big time to their competitors.
Facts are your friend??!!
"eating their lunch" "lost out big time"
It seems that you are more comfortable with hyperbole than facts.
... and you say you're not trolling.
But I guess that no matter what we say you won't go away.... so the ignore list is my friend.
Well, I don't agree that the android OS is going to end badly, primarily because it's free to license for phone manufacturers vs the licensing fees they would incur for Windows Mobile and of course they cant license IOS. That being said, I DO agree that the Android UI is horrible.
As far as the IOS stagnating, I agree that's completely off base. They have clearly been growing it just as they have OSX, with regular steady updates. Ironically, I do think they should spend MORE time on the OSX UI which feels rather dated to me compared to Win 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius
Like what?
I said "there may be a few things W7 does better". This is not an admission or belief of mine. Just conceding that some folks out there may enjoy certain aspects of W7 more than OS X. Note: I am not one of these people.
And herein lies the problem. You don't understand the graph, its meaning, nor its relevance. Yet you extract all sort of odd conclusions from it, which are most of the time fantastic, magic, exaggerated or plainly wrong.
Please tell me which conclusions are odd or incorrect. I conclude that for the time period reported by the graph, Android is surging, the Blackberry is increasing its lead over the iPhone, and the iPhone is stagnating WRT market share.
Is any of that wrong? Can any additional conclusions be drawn?
Multi-tasking would be nice, as long as I can control it/turn it off.
Because of my experience with 'Push' notification on a few iPhone apps, I don't really know if this is a good thing. Push cuts my battery life by about 1/3. I wouldn't mind if certain apps (chat, pandora, etc) had the ability to run in the background, but I'm afraid that every hack programmer in the world is going to layer on mostly needless background updating and kill my battery life. Weather apps that constantly feel the need to update in the background, stock tickers that continue to tick in the background, social networking that continue to pull status updates (and chat requests and email updates) without concern for platform performance or battery life.
I hope that apps have to be 'certified' to use background services, that is meet certain performance and impact benchmarks to be able to be sold on the App Store.
Do we have any objective information as to why the iPhone is falling further and further behind the Blackberry?
The opinions presented so far include:
The iOS is technically inferior.
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.
Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished, or whether this trend will reverse when they finally catch up to the competitors with the new iOS. I'll remain optimistic about the iOS in the meantime.
This gentleman's or lady's set of arguments convinced me once for all that one has to invest in any technology but Apple's.
Especially in the Mobile Phone business.
Very compelling indeed.
So I complied with this very thoughtful advice and bought any phone that wasn't Apple branded.
I am now the happy owner of ten mobile phones, and counting, and none are Apple branded; furthermore, I've decided that from now on I would get up one hour earlier in the morning and stay up one hour late at night so that I can have a more satisfying, longer lasting and endearing user experience at excoriating the Apple father figure.
I may now be a nervous wreck and in a deep financial hole but do I ever feel vindicated!
Yet many others disagree that there is stagnation. And that is what you cannot grasp.
The lack of progress in market share is a fact. If you don't like "stagnation", would you prefer "loss of momentum"?
What description do you prefer if neither of these are to your liking? I would hesitate to say that iPhone popularity has peaked, because it is hard to draw reliable trends from snapshots. However, if they don't do something about the iOS problem prior to the third quarter, a trend may be identifiable.
So how would you characterize the lack of market growth shown by the graph?
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.
With the market share they have and their capitalization value approaching MS, I'd say Apple's "huge mistakes" have paid off pretty well. I don't find their iOS technically inferior. I find it a pleasure to write for, as I expect the iPad will, sharing a common IDE and OS.
I think a big question is going to be how the introduction of LTE will affect things. That's either going to start to happen this summer or this time next year. I would imagine businesses have already begun jockeying for position.
Please tell me which conclusions are odd or incorrect. I conclude that for the time period reported by the graph, Android is surging, the Blackberry is increasing its lead over the iPhone, and the iPhone is stagnating WRT market share.
Is any of that wrong? Can any additional conclusions be drawn?
Go on, what else did you conclude? Go on, don't be shy. You were very verbose before. Suddenly you are to cautious... So far so good.
The lack of progress in market share is a fact. If you don't like "stagnation", would you prefer "loss of momentum"?
What description do you prefer if neither of these are to your liking? I would hesitate to say that iPhone popularity has peaked, because it is hard to draw reliable trends from snapshots. However, if they don't do something about the iOS problem prior to the third quarter, a trend may be identifiable.
So how would you characterize the lack of market growth shown by the graph?
How about because it's the winter and nobody in their right mind would by a new iphone and lock themselves in for 2 years when it'll be out of date in 3 or 4 months?
Comments
Well, I don't agree that the android OS is going to end badly, primarily because it's free to license for phone manufacturers vs the licensing fees they would incur for Windows Mobile and of course they cant license IOS. That being said, I DO agree that the Android UI is horrible.
As far as the IOS stagnating, I agree that's completely off base. They have clearly been growing it just as they have OSX, with regular steady updates. Ironically, I do think they should spend MORE time on the OSX UI which feels rather dated to me compared to Win 7.
I sortof felt this way also initially. But I have since altered my opinion to some degree. I don't think OS X is dated, I just think that Windows 7 just leaped forward to finally catch up. Sure there may be a few things W7 does better, but also many things OS X does better. I think mainly I am just in an uncomfortable position because it feels very weird to have a Windows product be an actual competitor to OS X. In the past Windows was always (in my opinion) way behind the Mac OS. The recent improvements to Windows that close the gap are a bit off-putting. I'll get used to it though because we need good competition. This should spur Apple on to really great things that will put it way out in front again. And then I can rest a bit easier.
Then why did you say a few moments ago that it surprises you that RIM, who have been steadily pumping out new product refreshes over the past year, is selling more than a yet-to-be-updated iPhone model?
I was surprised because I thought that Apple had finally gained traction. I was unaware that RIM is becoming increasingly successful, while the iPhone has been failing to gain market share. Maybe I shouldn't have been surprised at this, but I was.
I was surprised because I thought that Apple had finally gained traction. I was unaware that RIM is becoming increasingly successful, while the iPhone has been failing to gain market share. Maybe I shouldn't have been surprised at this, but I was.
Even though this was amply explained on the sites from which you linked those graphs? So you're just the type that looks for images without any regard to context. Gotcha.
Textbook troll behavior. And why you chose to interject this line of discussion into a thread about iPhone multitasking...well, I wouldn't presume to rationalize that for you.
A graph of facts will never give you reasons. That's called a causality relationship and it needs a totally different mathematical analysis
Yes. Hence my comment.
Do we have any objective information as to why the iPhone is falling further and further behind the Blackberry?
The opinions presented so far include:
The iOS is technically inferior.
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.
Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished, or whether this trend will reverse when they finally catch up to the competitors with the new iOS. I'll remain optimistic about the iOS in the meantime.
Sure there may be a few things W7 does better
Like what?
Yes. Hence my comment.
Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished
And herein lies the problem. You don't understand the graph, its meaning, nor its relevance. Yet you extract all sort of odd conclusions from it, which are most of the time fantastic, magic, exaggerated or plainly wrong.
And why you chose to interject this line of discussion into a thread about iPhone multitasking...well, I wouldn't presume to rationalize that for you.
My original comment was "What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating."
The nexus between Apple's slow modernization of iOS and the current market stagnation of the iOS was interesting to me.
From what I have seen, the complaints about the iPhone rarely mention the hardware; what bugs people is the software. The article was about Apple finally (someday...) adding basic features to the software. I saw a connection, and wanted to explore it.
Lots of folks here seem to think that the current stagnation is directly tied to the delays in implementing common features in the iOS. Others think that the stagnation is not due to the old OS, but rather, to other factors.
I have no firm conclusions, but I enjoy discussing the technology and the market.
My original comment was "What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating."
The nexus between Apple's slow modernization of iOS and the current market stagnation of the iOS was interesting to me.
From what I have seen, the complaints about the iPhone rarely mention the hardware; what bugs people is the software. The article was about Apple finally (someday...) adding basic features to the software. I saw a connection, and wanted to explore it.
Lots of folks here seem to think that the current stagnation is directly tied to the delays in implementing common features in the iOS. Others think that the stagnation is not due to the old OS, but rather, to other factors.
I have no firm conclusions, but I enjoy discussing the technology and the market.
Yet many others disagree that there is stagnation. And that is what you cannot grasp.
Yes. Hence my comment.
Do we have any objective information as to why the iPhone is falling further and further behind the Blackberry?
The opinions presented so far include:
The iOS is technically inferior.
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.
Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished, or whether this trend will reverse when they finally catch up to the competitors with the new iOS. I'll remain optimistic about the iOS in the meantime.
The way you tend to word things are laughable. Since graphs seem so much more visually impressive than text, lets put some perspective on this;
There are no "huge mistakes" here. The iPhone has always been second best, in terms of marketshare. Regardless of you having realized that or not, it's true. The business world is firmly entrenched with RIM, and this will not change in the foreseeable future. There are many parallels going on here in relation to desktop marketshare, but here we get to see what happens when Microsoft doesn't have a choke hold on the industry and complete vendor lock-in of the market. Apple is following the same product model they have always followed for everything they've put out. A person either likes the iPhone as it is, or they don't. There are no compromises on that, and quite frankly it's staggering that they've done as well as they have. Then again, I don't think Apple ever really wants to be #1 at anything, since it limits what they can do. I've tinkered with many many different models of Blackberry's, and I'd be hard pressed to be able to tell any of them apart.
Yeah - both the one-phone and the one-carrier strategies are huge mistakes. It is ironic though, that Apple popularized the market segment, and now RIM is eating their lunch.
Kind of like what happened to the GUI OS business: Apple was first (well, not first, but first in the consumer market), but lost out big time to their competitors.
Facts are your friend??!!
"eating their lunch" "lost out big time"
It seems that you are more comfortable with hyperbole than facts.
... and you say you're not trolling.
But I guess that no matter what we say you won't go away.... so the ignore list is my friend.
Well, I don't agree that the android OS is going to end badly, primarily because it's free to license for phone manufacturers vs the licensing fees they would incur for Windows Mobile and of course they cant license IOS. That being said, I DO agree that the Android UI is horrible.
As far as the IOS stagnating, I agree that's completely off base. They have clearly been growing it just as they have OSX, with regular steady updates. Ironically, I do think they should spend MORE time on the OSX UI which feels rather dated to me compared to Win 7.
Like what?
I said "there may be a few things W7 does better". This is not an admission or belief of mine. Just conceding that some folks out there may enjoy certain aspects of W7 more than OS X. Note: I am not one of these people.
And herein lies the problem. You don't understand the graph, its meaning, nor its relevance. Yet you extract all sort of odd conclusions from it, which are most of the time fantastic, magic, exaggerated or plainly wrong.
Please tell me which conclusions are odd or incorrect. I conclude that for the time period reported by the graph, Android is surging, the Blackberry is increasing its lead over the iPhone, and the iPhone is stagnating WRT market share.
Is any of that wrong? Can any additional conclusions be drawn?
Because of my experience with 'Push' notification on a few iPhone apps, I don't really know if this is a good thing. Push cuts my battery life by about 1/3. I wouldn't mind if certain apps (chat, pandora, etc) had the ability to run in the background, but I'm afraid that every hack programmer in the world is going to layer on mostly needless background updating and kill my battery life. Weather apps that constantly feel the need to update in the background, stock tickers that continue to tick in the background, social networking that continue to pull status updates (and chat requests and email updates) without concern for platform performance or battery life.
I hope that apps have to be 'certified' to use background services, that is meet certain performance and impact benchmarks to be able to be sold on the App Store.
Yes. Hence my comment.
Do we have any objective information as to why the iPhone is falling further and further behind the Blackberry?
The opinions presented so far include:
The iOS is technically inferior.
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.
Personally, I don't really know why the iPhone growth has vanished, or whether this trend will reverse when they finally catch up to the competitors with the new iOS. I'll remain optimistic about the iOS in the meantime.
This gentleman's or lady's set of arguments convinced me once for all that one has to invest in any technology but Apple's.
Especially in the Mobile Phone business.
Very compelling indeed.
So I complied with this very thoughtful advice and bought any phone that wasn't Apple branded.
I am now the happy owner of ten mobile phones, and counting, and none are Apple branded; furthermore, I've decided that from now on I would get up one hour earlier in the morning and stay up one hour late at night so that I can have a more satisfying, longer lasting and endearing user experience at excoriating the Apple father figure.
I may now be a nervous wreck and in a deep financial hole but do I ever feel vindicated!
Thanks all for having listened to me...
Yet many others disagree that there is stagnation. And that is what you cannot grasp.
The lack of progress in market share is a fact. If you don't like "stagnation", would you prefer "loss of momentum"?
What description do you prefer if neither of these are to your liking? I would hesitate to say that iPhone popularity has peaked, because it is hard to draw reliable trends from snapshots. However, if they don't do something about the iOS problem prior to the third quarter, a trend may be identifiable.
So how would you characterize the lack of market growth shown by the graph?
Yes. Hence my comment.
The iOS is technically inferior.
Apple made a huge mistake in marketing only one phone.
Apple made a huge mistake in using only one carrier.
Apple's product refresh cycles are too long.
With the market share they have and their capitalization value approaching MS, I'd say Apple's "huge mistakes" have paid off pretty well. I don't find their iOS technically inferior. I find it a pleasure to write for, as I expect the iPad will, sharing a common IDE and OS.
I think a big question is going to be how the introduction of LTE will affect things. That's either going to start to happen this summer or this time next year. I would imagine businesses have already begun jockeying for position.
Please tell me which conclusions are odd or incorrect. I conclude that for the time period reported by the graph, Android is surging, the Blackberry is increasing its lead over the iPhone, and the iPhone is stagnating WRT market share.
Is any of that wrong? Can any additional conclusions be drawn?
Go on, what else did you conclude? Go on, don't be shy. You were very verbose before. Suddenly you are to cautious... So far so good.
Where did you find the information that the graph is US only? The story didn't say that.
Look at the table, which is basically the graph in table form, it clearly states "Total U.S. Age 13+".
The lack of progress in market share is a fact. If you don't like "stagnation", would you prefer "loss of momentum"?
What description do you prefer if neither of these are to your liking? I would hesitate to say that iPhone popularity has peaked, because it is hard to draw reliable trends from snapshots. However, if they don't do something about the iOS problem prior to the third quarter, a trend may be identifiable.
So how would you characterize the lack of market growth shown by the graph?
How about because it's the winter and nobody in their right mind would by a new iphone and lock themselves in for 2 years when it'll be out of date in 3 or 4 months?