Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support

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  • Reply 321 of 481
    @iGenius. Say something else! We get your point. Sheesh.
  • Reply 322 of 481
    eckingecking Posts: 1,588member
    Kasper if you're not right about there's gonna be a shit storm fired back at you. I don't know if I would have been as sure as you've been in your article.
  • Reply 323 of 481
    jupiteronejupiterone Posts: 1,564member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post




    On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.



    The two best examples of this is the Unlock slider and scrolling through lists where there is that little snap back. You can almost feel the "springy-ness" in both. It's something that I think other vendors underestimate.
  • Reply 324 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    If not the Droid advertising, then what do you think accounts for the impressive growth of Android?



    It started from nowhere. When you have a tiny marketshare, and you double the sales of a small number of products, your marketshare will double. But as you sell more, that growth slows down. In addition, there are more models of Android phones out there than there are iPhones. If Apple had ten different models at anywhere from free with a contract to $299 with one, as well as unlocked ones here, don't you think that Apple would be outselling RIM already?



    What's more important about Android than the number of phones that may be selling, is the fact that it's becoming fragmented. Can you believe that there are new Android phones coming out with 1.5 on them? That can't be upgraded at all. Even most phones with 1.6 can't be upgraded. In fact, there is even a problem upgrading 2.0 phones to 2.1, as we can see by the fact that even the Droid is still at 2.0 even though some other 2.0 phones are now are 2.1.



    Can you imagine Apple doing that? Never. At some point, the first, now old 2G, won't be upgradable, but it will have been years that it was. A NEW phone with an obsolete OS version? Google's GOT to be out of their minds!



    Then there's the different, incompatible GUI's from different manufacturers. Programmers are going crazy. Their apps don't work across the spectrum of Android devices. This is just going to get much worse. I've been saying this since day one when Android was first introduced by Google. They have to exert some control over what's happening.



    If they don't, then it won't matter how many "Android" phones are sold, because they won't BE Android phones, they will all be separate fiefs that are incompatible with each other. It's like Linux, you can't really talk about Linux, you have to talk about the different distros, because most software won't work across the spectrum. You need re-compiles to get them to work, and even then, often, features are lost for various reasons.



    That's what's happening to Android, and so far, despite many articles about this, Google doesn't seem to care, or doesn't know what to do about it.



    So when we talk about Android sales, it will be a question of what that means. If it doesn't get straightened out, most "Android" phones will be listed under the infamous "other" category in the phone sales charts.



    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ities-revealed



    http://www.businessinsider.com/googl...fusing-2009-11



    http://www.macworld.com/article/1439...t_android.html



    This is just an interesting article:



    http://counternotions.com/2009/12/15/nexus/



    http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/ins...partner=alerts



    http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...nexus_one.html



    Why "Open" phones are great:



    http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente..._security.html



    http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/16/best-android-phone/



    http://infoworld.com/d/mobilize/goog...rby-begins-863



    http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/e...-the-platform/



    That's just a fraction of the articles in that vein I've bookmarked. If you really want to see what's happening to Android, you'll do yourself a favor and read them. Take your time.
  • Reply 325 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    For the US shares graph that iGenius is using, the surge is the result of the DROID. The time the graph covers is exactly when the DROID was released. It can't be a coincidence.



    The Droid came out during the holiday season. Think that's a good reason why it sold decently well then? I do. but now that holidays are over, sales have slumped.
  • Reply 326 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


    The trick will be to have a system preference where the user can determine which apps can multitask and which ones can't. With all third party apps turned off by default. That way, when you get fewer hours than normal from your fully charged iPhone, Apple can point to the offending apps and suggest you turn that off.



    In addition, there must be a way to prevent developers from deciding how many resources they want for their own app. That's go to be done by the OS without any user intervention.



    And it's got to be simple. That means simple to everyone, not to a chosen few.
  • Reply 327 of 481
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I concur with all of this, having used a borrowed Pre for a while to check it out.



    Something that doesn't get enough acknowledgement, IMO, is Apples absolute maniacal devotion to getting the very front edge of the interface right-- that is, exactly what happens and how it feels when you touch something.



    On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.



    On the Pre, things are quite a bit less cut and dried. Nothing horrible, mind you, but a lot of little hesitations or slightly delayed responses or missed screen touches or a bit of jerkiness-- it adds up. Anything that gets between the touch and the response breaks the illusion of manipulating an actual thing, which is central to the iOS metaphor.



    It's a subtle thing, and a lot of tech-heads seem to think it's irrelevant, but "manipulating real things" is the iOS equivalent of the Mac's GUI revolution. It would be as if Windows had copied the icon thing but forgot to make sure that a given icon for a given file was always the same, instead figuring that the general idea was close enough and the a little vagueness on that count was no big deal.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post


    The two best examples of this is the Unlock slider and scrolling through lists where there is that little snap back. You can almost feel the "springy-ness" in both. It's something that I think other vendors underestimate.



    I wonder if some of this is related to the number of touch sensors on the IPhone display vs those on competitive phones.



    I have tried to find out the number of sensors on the iPhone and iPad; to see if they would be acceptable for use with a stylus (vs a Wacom Tablet).



    The best info I could find was during the keynote where an iPad hardware manager stated that the iPad had over 1,000 sensors.



    Of course, Apple is known to use software to exploit the capabilities of the hardware-- so that could be the difference if competitors use displays with a similar number of sensors.



    *
  • Reply 328 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MeCourious View Post


    We keep forgetting the point that most iphone users don't want to manage their phones. How many know there are some apps that have custom settings for their apps? They don't want to be reminded of anything. If Apple has to throw pop-ups on the screen all the time to tell them something is eating up their power on their device, they will get frustrated.



    Let's change that to:



    Most PHONE users don't want to manage their phones.
  • Reply 329 of 481
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The Droid came out during the holiday season. Think that's a good reason why it sold decently well then? I do. but now that holidays are over, sales have slumped.



    Again, I think we're "arguing" to agree.
  • Reply 330 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    So essentially we're agreeing? You just have a more written-out agreeing...



    Sure, I'm just pedantic. I like to explain the details.
  • Reply 331 of 481
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Niko03 View Post


    It's much easier to double your marketshare when your in the single digits.



    That is true, more you have, less space you have to grow. I keep saying that for desktop market as well.



    Quote:

    Especially when they had such a major product launch with Droid during that timeframe.



    Check back again in July after the next iPhone model and OS release.

    (iPhone user get BOTH of those EVERY year.)



    I don't have doubts iPhone 4 will sell volumes, but question is not only how many people will get it - it is also how many people will leave iPhone, and how many will just replace their own iPhone for a new one... because we know that Apple has sold loads of iPhones during the season, yet stats show stagnation, which basically means for every new person who purchased iPhone, there was a person who dumped it and moved to different platform.



    Additionally, RIM managed to grow even with bigger marketshare to start with.
  • Reply 332 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I concur with all of this, having used a borrowed Pre for a while to check it out.



    Something that doesn't get enough acknowledgement, IMO, is Apples absolute maniacal devotion to getting the very front edge of the interface right-- that is, exactly what happens and how it feels when you touch something.



    On the iPhone, there's a sense of "connectedness" that comes with the immediate responsiveness. You sort of come to trust it. I think it's something that Apple's engineers value almost above everything else, and a priority that probably explains things like delaying third party multitasking until they know they either have the hardware or software to do it in a way that doesn't compromise, at all, that vital instantaneous moment of touch.



    On the Pre, things are quite a bit less cut and dried. Nothing horrible, mind you, but a lot of little hesitations or slightly delayed responses or missed screen touches or a bit of jerkiness-- it adds up. Anything that gets between the touch and the response breaks the illusion of manipulating an actual thing, which is central to the iOS metaphor.



    It's a subtle thing, and a lot of tech-heads seem to think it's irrelevant, but "manipulating real things" is the iOS equivalent of the Mac's GUI revolution. It would be as if Windows had copied the icon thing but forgot to make sure that a given icon for a given file was always the same, instead figuring that the general idea was close enough and the a little vagueness on that count was no big deal.



    Exactly!



    With the iPhone, all you have to figure out is whether you should poke an icon. When you do, the rest is easy. Even for the settings icon. Poke it and it opens. The rest is easy too.



    Some people are already saying that they're tiring of the GUI. Well tough! It's really good at what it does. When Apple alters it, it's to add, not to simply change. Anyone can easily use any gen iPhone without having to relearn most of it. That can't be said for other phones.
  • Reply 333 of 481
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    The market share is stagnant. Since October, Andorid more than doubled, RIM is in first place and pulling away, and iOS gained nothing.



    If you don't like stagnant, how about "Peaked"? Or "Moribund"? Or "losing ground"?



    Pick any adjective you like, or just redefine any word to suit your liking. But "stagnant" is accurate.



    Stagnant? Don't think so. The only thing preventing iPhone from growing faster is the unholy marriage with AT&T, but even under that arrangement Apple is getting a lot back in their pockets.
  • Reply 334 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Again, I think we're "arguing" to agree.



    I'm not arguing with you at all. I just tend to avoid one sentence answers. I like to give background for other people as well.
  • Reply 335 of 481
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I wonder if some of this is related to the number of touch sensors on the IPhone display vs those on competitive phones.



    I have tried to find out the number of sensors on the iPhone and iPad; to see if they would be acceptable for use with a stylus (vs a Wacom Tablet).



    The best info I could find was during the keynote where an iPad hardware manager stated that the iPad had over 1,000 sensors.



    Of course, Apple is known to use software to exploit the capabilities of the hardware-- so that could be the difference if competitors use displays with a similar number of sensors.



    *



    I think it's also a matter of intentionality. Software man-hours are a finite resource; Apple clearly has put a lot of time and effort to getting the UI, touchscreen and all over responsiveness exactly right, including those little touches like snapback and physics based animations. I think they emphasize these things above even clamored for functionality, knowing as they do that if they get the bedrock right-- if the iOS and hardware work together to constantly reinforce the sense that one is manipulating actual things-- that they will have the kind of satisfying user experience that provides the groundwork for whatever additional stuff (copy and paste, third party multi-tasking, etc.) seems appropriate and achievable within the general standards they've set. Not to mention whatever new devices they intend for the platform.



    It appears to me that some of the other contenders spend less time sweating these details, preferring to spend their precious development time on "features." Since the small, intensely satisfying nuances of user interaction are exactly the kind of thing gear-heads tend to regard as touchy feely nonsense for stupid people, preferring to swoon over specs and buzz words, it's small wonder that we get the kind of clueless snark that we do.
  • Reply 336 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,803member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    That is true, more you have, less space you have to grow. I keep saying that for desktop market as well.







    I don't have doubts iPhone 4 will sell volumes, but question is not only how many people will get it - it is also how many people will leave iPhone, and how many will just replace their own iPhone for a new one... because we know that Apple has sold loads of iPhones during the season, yet stats show stagnation, which basically means for every new person who purchased iPhone, there was a person who dumped it and moved to different platform.



    Additionally, RIM managed to grow even with bigger marketshare to start with.



    I don't get that at all. The chart is deceiving. You have to look at at least 6 months of a year to get some idea. Better yet is an entire year. And there, Apple has grown quickly.



    http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/04/...dustry-growth/



    http://link.businessinsider.com/view/aik.bgd/f12a87a6



    And just how many more phones do you think Apple would have "sold" if they followed RIM's holiday quarter in also doing a "buy one get one free" promotion? Do you really think that RIM would have sold 10.1 million phones if they didn't do that?



    Do you think that Apple would have sold more than 8.6 million if they had?
  • Reply 337 of 481
    I hope I don't change the subject too much but lets look at copy and paste from Apple. Apple took a lot of heat from critics for leaving copy and paste out of the original iPhone. It was a perfect flash point for saying the iphone was behind the times. But Apple stuck to its rules and refused to deliver it until they were certain it met their standards for easy-to-use functionality. Now that it has been implemented, no one has questioned how they did it and its usefulness across the iphone platform. To borrow this phrase once more, it just works.



    Now we are at multi-tasking. The same scenario is playing out. We have over 300 comments debating how or why or if Apple will introduce a decent solution to multi-tasking. Haven't we learned anything from the copy and paste routines? Don't we have any faith that Apple will do it the best way possible for their system of devices? I for one believe they will pull it off. But I wish they didn't for the reasons I stated before (non-tech people could care less). People don't want to manage a phone. I'm content to wait to see how they pull this off. I hope it turns out as well as copy and paste did.
  • Reply 338 of 481
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    I think it's also a matter of intentionality. Software man-hours are a finite resource; Apple clearly has put a lot of time and effort to getting the UI, touchscreen and all over responsiveness exactly right, including those little touches like snapback and physics based animations. I think they emphasize these things above even clamored for functionality, knowing as they do that if they get the bedrock right-- if the iOS and hardware work together to constantly reinforce the sense that one is manipulating actual things-- that they will have the kind of satisfying user experience that provides the groundwork for whatever additional stuff (copy and paste, third party multi-tasking, etc.) seems appropriate and achievable within the general standards they've set. Not to mention whatever new devices they intend for the platform.



    It appears to me that some of the other contenders spend less time sweating these details, preferring to spend their precious development time on "features." Since the small, intensely satisfying nuances of user interaction are exactly the kind of thing gear-heads tend to regard as touchy feely nonsense for stupid people, preferring to swoon over specs and buzz words, it's small wonder that we get the kind of clueless snark that we do.



    Emphasis mine. You, sir have defined why the iPad will be a resounding success!



    *
  • Reply 339 of 481
    swingeswinge Posts: 108member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It started from nowhere. When you have a tiny marketshare, and you double the sales of a small number of products, your marketshare will double. But as you sell more, that growth slows down. In addition, there are more models of Android phones out there than there are iPhones. If Apple had ten different models at anywhere from free with a contract to $299 with one, as well as unlocked ones here, don't you think that Apple would be outselling RIM already?



    What's more important about Android than the number of phones that may be selling, is the fact that it's becoming fragmented. Can you believe that there are new Android phones coming out with 1.5 on them? That can't be upgraded at all. Even most phones with 1.6 can't be upgraded. In fact, there is even a problem upgrading 2.0 phones to 2.1, as we can see by the fact that even the Droid is still at 2.0 even though some other 2.0 phones are now are 2.1.



    Can you imagine Apple doing that? Never. At some point, the first, now old 2G, won't be upgradable, but it will have been years that it was. A NEW phone with an obsolete OS version? Google's GOT to be out of their minds!



    Then there's the different, incompatible GUI's from different manufacturers. Programmers are going crazy. Their apps don't work across the spectrum of Android devices. This is just going to get much worse. I've been saying this since day one when Android was first introduced by Google. They have to exert some control over what's happening.



    If they don't, then it won't matter how many "Android" phones are sold, because they won't BE Android phones, they will all be separate fiefs that are incompatible with each other. It's like Linux, you can't really talk about Linux, you have to talk about the different distros, because most software won't work across the spectrum. You need re-compiles to get them to work, and even then, often, features are lost for various reasons.



    That's what's happening to Android, and so far, despite many articles about this, Google doesn't seem to care, or doesn't know what to do about it.



    So when we talk about Android sales, it will be a question of what that means. If it doesn't get straightened out, most "Android" phones will be listed under the infamous "other" category in the phone sales charts.



    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ities-revealed



    http://www.businessinsider.com/googl...fusing-2009-11



    http://www.macworld.com/article/1439...t_android.html



    This is just an interesting article:



    http://counternotions.com/2009/12/15/nexus/



    http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/ins...partner=alerts



    http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...nexus_one.html



    Why "Open" phones are great:



    http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente..._security.html



    http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/16/best-android-phone/



    http://infoworld.com/d/mobilize/goog...rby-begins-863



    http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/e...-the-platform/



    That's just a fraction of the articles in that vein I've bookmarked. If you really want to see what's happening to Android, you'll do yourself a favor and read them. Take your time.



    Great post! I tried to make similar arguments back on page. 3... These kinds of forums are so funny...like screaming into the wind... So difficult to just ignore Android trolls....
  • Reply 340 of 481
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    I surrender. This ain't worth it.



    Praise Jesus!

    Can I get an Amen Brothers?
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