Nokia, Apple courtroom showdown to wait until mid-2012

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014
The legal battle over mobile technology patents between handset makers Apple and Nokia will likely drag out for years, with both companies looking for a court hearing to be held in 2012.



The trial date with the U.S. International Trade Commission was revealed in a court filing obtained by Reuters this week. It noted that the date raises "the spectre of a prolonged legal struggle."



When the battle between the two giant companies began last fall with Nokia suing Apple over alleged patent violations, some said if Apple countersued, the battle between the two Goliaths could last two or three years. Sure enough, only months later, Apple filed a countersuit against Nokia, accusing the Finnish company of its own list of patent infringements.



In January, the ITC agreed to investigate Apple over the complaints lodged by Nokia. Weeks later, the U.S. commission announced it would also investigate Nokia over Apple's claims.



Reuters noted that Apple originally accused Nokia of infringing 13 patents the Cupertino, Calif., company owns. However, the suit has since been revised to remove four from the list.



Analyst Gene Munster with Piper Jaffray has said he believes Nokia seeks a 1 percent to 2 percent royalty on every iPhone sold. That would amount to about $6 to $12 per handset in compensation for intellectual properties related go GSM, 3G and Wi-Fi.



While Nokia first provoked Apple with a lawsuit last fall, Apple recently began its own patent-related pursuit against handset maker HTC earlier this month. The iPhone maker filed a suit with the ITC accusing HTC of infringing on 20 patents related to the handset's user interface, underlying architecture and hardware. Some believe the lawsuit is meant as an indirect attack against Google's Android mobile operating system.



The ITC has been busy with Apple lately. The U.S. commission is also investigating a complaint from camera maker Kodak, which has accused Apple of infringing on patents related to the previewing of images and processing them at different resolutions. Kodak believes Apple's iPhone infringes on those inventions.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    It is truly sad when companies rip off other's technology instead of innovating.
  • Reply 2 of 17
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    It is truly sad when companies rip off other's technology instead of innovating.



    I know, right? Jeez guys, fight it out in the marketplace like real men.
  • Reply 3 of 17
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    The legal battle over mobile technology patents between handset makers Apple and Nokia will likely drag out for years, with both companies looking for a court hearing to be held in 2012.



    Nothing unusual about this. Standard fare. These things take years, and in 2015, we'll all go "what the heck was this all about, and who cares!"
  • Reply 4 of 17
    igeniusigenius Posts: 1,240member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Nothing unusual about this. Standard fare. These things take years, and in 2015, we'll all go "what the heck was this all about, and who cares!"



    That is a huge problem when litigating tech patents. By the time there's a decision, the tech is too often obsolete.
  • Reply 5 of 17
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Nothing unusual about this. Standard fare. These things take years, and in 2015, we'll all go "what the heck was this all about, and who cares!"



    Unless you believe that that the world is going to end in 2012.



    Yeh, these things take years and cost $$$$$$.
  • Reply 6 of 17
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    After the decision there are the appeals.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    That is a huge problem when litigating tech patents. By the time there's a decision, the tech is too often obsolete.



  • Reply 7 of 17
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    In the meantime, I guess the right to a speedy trial must only apply to other types of court cases...



    And it's funny, that while we wait, if indeed one party is in the wrong, they get to continue their "illegality" under the noses and supervision of the courts!
  • Reply 8 of 17
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    After the dust settles, if the plaintiff prevails then they are awarded damages in terms of royalty payments and court cost--even if the technology is now obsolete.
  • Reply 9 of 17
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    In the meantime, I guess the right to a speedy trial must only apply to other types of court cases...



    And it's funny, that while we wait, if indeed one party is in the wrong, they get to continue their "illegality" under the noses and supervision of the courts!



    Speedy trials apply to criminal and not civil, patent or copyright cases. Sixth Amendment. Due Process 14th Amendment.
  • Reply 10 of 17
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    In the meantime, I guess the right to a speedy trial must only apply to other types of court cases...



    And it's funny, that while we wait, if indeed one party is in the wrong, they get to continue their "illegality" under the noses and supervision of the courts!





    there is something called Discovery in civil cases. Both Nokia and Apple are going to go to court and present a list of data the other is supposed to provide. In each case the strategy is to provide too much data to bog the other legal team down in searching for the right data. at work i've had to satisfy these. one time they wanted almost 10 years of data going back to before a merger. we gave them a few DLT tapes and that was it.



    in the end both legal teams will be busy for the next year going through all the discovery data trying to build their case and asking for more data. and this is why MS Exchange is so popular in corporate america. it makes doing things like these very easy. just restore a few months worth of databases, use Ontrack Powertools to filter the right data and export it to a file
  • Reply 11 of 17
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,616member
    This will probably never reach court and will end up with some sort of cross licensing agreement.
  • Reply 12 of 17
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    there is something called Discovery in civil cases. Both Nokia and Apple are going to go to court and present a list of data the other is supposed to provide. In each case the strategy is to provide too much data to bog the other legal team down in searching for the right data. at work i've had to satisfy these. one time they wanted almost 10 years of data going back to before a merger. we gave them a few DLT tapes and that was it.



    in the end both legal teams will be busy for the next year going through all the discovery data trying to build their case and asking for more data. and this is why MS Exchange is so popular in corporate america. it makes doing things like these very easy. just restore a few months worth of databases, use Ontrack Powertools to filter the right data and export it to a file



    In the process, we lose another forrest. Even if the documents are in PDF, there are times when it will be necessary to produce hard copies.
  • Reply 13 of 17
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post


    This will probably never reach court and will end up with some sort of cross licensing agreement.



    Exactly. The vast majority of these types of lawsuits (most torts, in fact) never go to trial. Both sides want to settle, the judge wants a settlement. Nobody wants a trial if only because the outcome is far too unpredictable.
  • Reply 14 of 17
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post


    This will probably never reach court and will end up with some sort of cross licensing agreement.



    I don't think so. It's a little late for that. From what I understand The issue for Apple isn't that they didn't want to pay the licensing fees. It's that Apple is pissed at Nokia for gouging them by demanding higher licence fees from Apple than what the rest of the industry gets charged. Also Nokia demanded some sort of unfettered access to Apple IP along with the higher than normal licence fees. Apple is basically said "Screw you Nokia. We're not giving you access to any of our IP and we're not paying the higher licence fee. You had your chance to get a fair licence deal and you fucked it up. Now you get nothing and if it goes to trial, so be it. Plus we'll probably counter sue you." Which is what happened. If Apple wins then Nokia is royally screwed. They'll lose all their licence fees they charge the rest of the industry. Plus they then have to deal with the law suit Apple has against them.
  • Reply 15 of 17
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    It's a long way from too late for a settlement. At least two years away from too late.



    They will try to beat each other up in discovery and pretrial motions. Someone will get the upper hand. Then they will settle. The odds of going to an actual trial are probably one in a hundred.
  • Reply 16 of 17
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post


    In the process, we lose another forrest. Even if the documents are in PDF, there are times when it will be necessary to produce hard copies.



    Maybe Apple will provide the court and Nokia lawyers with iPads full of documents.
  • Reply 17 of 17
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by quinney View Post


    Maybe Apple will provide the court and Nokia lawyers with iPads full of documents.



    Not now--limit 2
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