NYT: Steve Jobs feels Google betrayed Apple by mimicking iPhone

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  • Reply 201 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solarein View Post


    . But still pretty embarrassing for a bigshot designer who supposedly knows a bit about technology.



    Actually, I'd prefer a designer not know every little piece of crap that goes on behind the scenes - that's the DEVELOPERS JOB (seriously - after all the complaints about devs-playing-designers - you honestly think the reverse is good - seriously?). I've never been happier doing design since all the geek crap I was doing was offloaded to devs. I still provide script and CSS changes in notes - but I don't have to waste my time with it.



    This hasn't made AI's links yet - but it's a damn decent article on the iPad's philo from ComputerWorld. At least one writer freakin' gets-it.



    http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...x_Less_is_more
  • Reply 202 of 344
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post


    If I'm not mistaken patent holder are obligated to defend them or risk loosing them...



    That's my understanding. Apple can try to work out a licensing agreement, but I think that they got burnt with Microsoft.



    see Apple vs MS 35 F3d 1435



    http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c....93-16867.html
  • Reply 203 of 344
    kerrybkerryb Posts: 270member
    [QUOTE=Doug Halfen;1590060]I feel that if Apple were going to embrace "Bing," then Google would have already vanished (at least visibly) from Safari in the 4.0.5 update. Hell hath no fury like Steve Jobs scorned, but the flames haven't yet reached that level.



    Truth be told, Bing is still very much a mixed bag (typical of Microsoft); even those people I know who readily embraced it upon launch (all devout PC worshippers -- I mean, Windows users) soon found themselves second-guessing and turning back to Google for "better results." (I personally can't stand Bing. I _much_ prefer Google. Anyone who knows how to really search _well_ on Google can get excellent results pretty quickly.)



    Apple is unlikely to take on Google in the search department, at least for sometime. Remember when Apple finished it's agreement to make IE the default browser for the Mac. Word was out that Apple was developing it's own browser and most tech sites thought it would be based on the Firefox engine what we got instead of Web Kit and Safari. Apple is run by VERY smart people that will always surprise us by thinking different, and despite Steve's reported rants and fits or rage there will be no rash decisions being made. Jobs criticism of Google was a warning to Apple's employees about the tech business in general and may have been a way of rallying the troops.



    As for the iPHone lawsuits, these were going to happen sooner or later as the copycats started to ship. Apple waited for he biggest target and offender to take on. There might be more to come although even Microsoft has steered clear of creating a complete rip off of the iPhone.
  • Reply 204 of 344
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post


    That's my understanding. Apple can try to work out a licensing agreement, but I think that they got burnt with Microsoft.



    see Apple vs MS 35 F3d 1435



    http://ftp.resource.org/courts.gov/c....93-16867.html



    This is the infamous "look and feel" case, which is perhaps not quite what you think it is. Apple was essentially forced to do a license agreement with Microsoft in 1985 for certain elements in the Mac interface, in order to keep Microsoft in the Mac software development business. Microsoft then used this license as a partial defense in the look and feel case, but it's not clear (from the legal discussions I've read) that Apple ever had much of a chance to win, in any event.
  • Reply 205 of 344
    brainlessbrainless Posts: 272member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post


    At least superficially, the facts support Jobs.





    You think the iPhone just sprang into existence in January 2007? Seriously.



    As noted earlier in this thread, Apple filed a patent application for multitouch on a capacitive display panel in May 2004, for which a patent was awarded Feb. 16, 2010.







    Apple was actually selling iPhones 2 years before the first Android devices appeared in the market.



    No, facts don't support Jobs and your post is contradictory. Apple "officially" entered phone business in 2007. It is not known to public when exactly they started to work on it - probably sooner than Google bought their group, but not by much. Or you think Google entered phone business in the end of 2008 ?
  • Reply 206 of 344
    patrollpatroll Posts: 77member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoctorBenway View Post


    Xerox Star. 1981.

    ...

    But that's missing the point.



    Have you ever seen a decent UI from Google? EVER? ....



    Could not agree more.
  • Reply 207 of 344
    solareinsolarein Posts: 143member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoctorBenway View Post


    Actually, I'd prefer a designer not know every little piece of crap that goes on behind the scenes - that's the DEVELOPERS JOB (seriously - after all the complaints about devs-playing-designers - you honestly think the reverse is good - seriously?). I've never been happier doing design since all the geek crap I was doing was offloaded to devs. I still provide script and CSS changes in notes - but I don't have to waste my time with it.



    This hasn't made AI's links yet - but it's a damn decent article on the iPad's philo from ComputerWorld. At least one writer freakin' gets-it.



    http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...x_Less_is_more



    It's not about being a developer, it's about having the common sense to update your software when the older version is known to be vulnerable.



    Also, that article basically says the iPad is great for people too stupid to figure out technology. Um...that's a valid point to make but hardly a compliment. The idea that only geeks and tinkerers can figure out technology and don't mind its complexity is a myth. Most circles of intelligent people do very well with technology, even circles that are quite far apart from technological fields.
  • Reply 208 of 344
    drudru Posts: 43member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by easy288 View Post


    Considering that Apple stole the gui idea for the Mac from Xerox PARC, I don't think that he should now complain that others steal ideas from Apple! This is the tech world. Every company steals ideas from everybody else. Manufacturers will provide what people want, even if it is a similar product.



    Not this shit again. Apple was INVITED to Xerox PARC. Apple licensed the ideas in exchange for stock ahead of their IPO. Xerox made a killing on that stock investment.



    A great deal of R&D still went into the Mac including on the GUI end.



    The license granted MS to use Lisa/Mac GUI tech was a grave strategic error because it really should've been a perpetual, renewable license and revenue stream.
  • Reply 209 of 344
    icyfogicyfog Posts: 338member
    To me this proves that technology companies just need to do everything ... phones, computers, Internet services, search, etc.
  • Reply 210 of 344
    Steve Jobs needs to get over himself.
  • Reply 211 of 344
    I'd like to repeat that, because i don't think Steve's heard it.



    Steve Jobs needs to get over himself.
  • Reply 212 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solarein View Post


    It's not about being a developer, it's about having the common sense to update your software when the older version is known to be vulnerable.



    Also, that article basically says the iPad is great for people too stupid to figure out technology. Um...that's a valid point to make but hardly a complimen.



    I didn't get the word "stupid" being used, but I'll use it. I think it's stupid to waste time making your computer work instead of doing work WITH it. To some people - who time is worth a LOT of money - using inferior tools that embrace time-wasting complexity is the height of stupid.



    But unless you've been in that club I suppose it'd be a bit abstract. If I want to tinker for fun, I've got ancient electronics to play with. If I want to consume media, or get work done - keep the jack-of-all-trades-master-of none toys out of my way.



    Best line of the article:



    " the result is systems that do everything. They're so feature-rich, so complex, that some people can't get them to do anything."



    I'd edit it to say - machines that try to do everything and are effectively doing nothing.
  • Reply 213 of 344
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    Oh pish. What did I say that was inaccurate?



    You need to try harder.



    Well, you just regurgitated a lot of the usual buzz-words and mostly sounded like a Droid advertisement. Nothing you said was original and the wording you used was the same everyone uses, so why should I assume you are doing anything but re-stating what you heard in an advertisement?



    I'll give you a couple of examples:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    Why can't I use an alternate web browser on my iPhone?



    You can, there are several. And there are valid design and security reasons for not including the ones that aren't allowed. You probably know this already in fact but don't mention it. Why? Begins with the letters T-R-O-L ...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    Or a mail app which actually supports GMail properly?



    Here you are making that classic straw man argument. There are mail apps for the iPhone, some from Google themselves, and the built in one supports Google GMail right out of the box. YOu are setting it up however to argue that these don't do it "properly" without mentioning what that is, and then using that to diss the iPhone. This is just total BS Troll-talk also.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post


    Or a podcatcher like Google Listen which downloads any podcast subscription over 3G?



    Here again, lots of valid reasons why podcatcher was disallowed not the least of which being the contract with AT&T, but you pretend like you don't know that cause you just want to troll.



    Basically, you either don't really seem to know anything about this stuff, or you do know about it and are just being a jerk about it so as to have a more troll-isciously tasting post. You can't have it both ways.



    I'm kinda coming down on the side of you being an annoying troll-type person as opposed to being just stupid because I just respect your intellect that much.
  • Reply 214 of 344
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    SNIP



    Google Docs threaten iWork and Office for the Mac just as much as Office for Windows. They should have gotten the hint then. Google's real target is Microsoft and if Apple is a casualty of that goal then so be it. Google knows Microsoft is gunning for them just as much and MS will wring everything it can from Apple to take Google down a peg or two.



    SNIP



    I guess the threat to microsoft office goes to the core of MS business. office is the reason why the business world is locked into windows and it was engineered to kill its competition. i'm not sure if iwork is a moneymaker for apple - i have a feeling apple wouldn't care if people use google docs, as long as they do it from a mac.



    in a hypothetical world where a majority of business users used google docs instead of office, the underlying os really wouldn't matter - even linux would have a chance to finally make some progress. that seems to be the approach that google is taking.



    the biggest obstacle to overcome is human inertia. people don't like change.
  • Reply 215 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solarein View Post


    It's not about being a developer, it's about having the common sense to update your software when the older version is known to be vulnerable.



    Also, that article basically says the iPad is great for people too stupid to figure out technology. Um...that's a valid point to make but hardly a compliment. The idea that only geeks and tinkerers can figure out technology and don't mind its complexity is a myth. Most circles of intelligent people do very well with technology, even circles that are quite far apart from technological fields.



    There are a lot of intelligent people that have better things to do with their time and talent than to learn some arcane interface to a set of features of questionable utility.



    How many Movers and Shakers (CEOs, World Leaders, Politicians, Church Elders, etc.) have time to spend on unusable devices?



    Could it be that the developers, engineers and designers of these feature-rich Rube Goldbergs are too lazy or lack the insight to examine and understand the needs of the prospective users?



    "Less is More" is a philosophy of the Bauhaus Design School that affected art, architecture, design:



    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...935171,00.html



  • Reply 216 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JaylikeBird View Post


    I'd like to repeat that, because i don't think Steve's heard it.



    Steve Jobs needs to get over himself.



    Heard it twice the first time, Jay.



    Thanks for your illuminating contributions thus far. Ain't bad for Post #9.....
  • Reply 217 of 344
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doctorbenway View Post


    i didn't get the word "stupid" being used, but i'll use it. I think it's stupid to waste time making your computer work instead of doing work with it. To some people - who time is worth a lot of money - using inferior tools that embrace time-wasting complexity is the height of stupid.



    But unless you've been in that club i suppose it'd be a bit abstract. If i want to tinker for fun, i've got ancient electronics to play with. If i want to consume media, or get work done - keep the jack-of-all-trades-master-of none toys out of my way.



    Best line of the article:



    " the result is systems that do everything. They're so feature-rich, so complex, that some people can't get them to do anything."



    i'd edit it to say - machines that try to do everything and are effectively doing nothing.



    +++ qft
  • Reply 218 of 344
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solarein View Post


    It's not about being a developer, it's about having the common sense to update your software when the older version is known to be vulnerable.



    Also, that article basically says the iPad is great for people too stupid to figure out technology. Um...that's a valid point to make but hardly a compliment. The idea that only geeks and tinkerers can figure out technology and don't mind its complexity is a myth. Most circles of intelligent people do very well with technology, even circles that are quite far apart from technological fields.



    i think the success of the iPhone already proves your myth busting argument to be wrong.
  • Reply 219 of 344
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masstrkiller View Post


    I just took a look at the page you linked and saw a picture of the geo paint program. That looks just like MacPaint for the original mac. It is so funny to see this OS. I have never heard of this OS before. I was 9 years old when the Mac came out and was lucky enough to have my Father in the computer sales business and he loved Apple. So we had a Mac when it came out and the Apple II before that. But its funny to see almost a direct copy of the mac OS back in 1986 running on those a C64 and PC's. I can't imagine how this OS would run a on a C64 though. When I first saw your post I thought it was a picture of Lisa OS. Thanks for posting though.



    Hehe, this really takes me back. I used GEOS extensively in those days as a kid. The first GUI interface I was ever exposed to. I loved it. I had the whole family of GEOS software: GeoFont, GeoPublish, etc.
  • Reply 220 of 344
    valmadvalmad Posts: 49member
    If I was I an American I would be a little worried about Google. They are taking ideas and tech that was and is being developed at U.S. universities, like fingerworks, without paying for it and giving it away free to companies that then undercut American companies. In this case Apple paid for the technology when they purchased fingerworks, Google and all the rest are just stealing it. And Google is giving this stolen tech. away FREE to anyone that wants it. That is not competition, it is self serving GREED They are taking from the best and brightest in the land and helping to destroy the very means and system that created the innovation in the first place. This is Evil. And to all those people who say this is just business, you can justify almost anything with that logic, even evil.
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