Virtually every decent place I've worked for is exactly the same. None of them would ever touch Numbers or iWork. Not with a ten-foot pole would I use them for work, no matter how collobarative they get in future.
Consider yourself lucky with the Gmail access as Google is a word I dare not utter inside the workplace.
I don't get why you all don't just keep your docs on MobileMe and edit from there. Haven't yet quite got the purpose of iWork.com, other than the fact it might be free. Which, you get what you pay for. . . but in this case and a potential subscription method, . . . maybe not.
IMHO, absent collaborative features, iWork.com is still more an impressive curiosity than a useful Web-application.
Hopefully, Apple is edging cautiously toward a release that will finally close this gap with Google.com's offerings.
Until then, pass.
As an author/editor/publisher, the last thing I would want is someone else revising manuscripts unilaterally.
Unless it is in collaboration with another author/editor; in the business we would submit manuscripts for markup, i.e., comments/proofing/approval. It is then somebody's duty (usually the author gets first crack) to take the suggestions under consideration, make the required changes and resubmit/re-edit until necessary.
We use iWork.com routinely to pass copy for editorial and client approval. If there is a comment or request for changes we can see it immediately, quickly dialogue with the viewer, clarify the issue if necessary and make final changes on the original manuscript. Since there is now an activity log on comments (which we file) attached to the submission, the final signature which is always on a hard copy comes a lot quicker.
Too often I have seen 'electronic collaboration' efforts fail miserably. As they say, the more cooks…spoil the broth, and the more choices…the longer it takes to make a decision.
I've considered using iWork.com for document sharing a couple of times, but each time I decided against it after spending a bit of time with the web interface and asking myself how I'd feel being faced with figuring it out. The last thing you want to do is frustrate a client. It just isn't easy or obvious enough yet. Maybe it's been improved with this upgrade.
As an author/editor/publisher, the last thing I would want is someone else revising manuscripts unilaterally.
Unless it is in collaboration with another author/editor; in the business we would submit manuscripts for markup, i.e., comments/proofing/approval. It is then somebody's duty (usually the author gets first crack) to take the suggestions under consideration, make the required changes and resubmit/re-edit until necessary.
We use iWork.com routinely to pass copy for editorial and client approval. If there is a comment or request for changes we can see it immediately, quickly dialogue with the viewer, clarify the issue if necessary and make final changes on the original manuscript. Since there is now an activity log attached to the submission, the final signature which is always on a hard copy comes a lot quicker.
Too often I have seen 'electronic collaboration' efforts fail miserably. As they say, the more cooks?spoil the broth.
I agree entirely. Every "track changes" document I've seen eventually becomes an utter disaster. Someone, ultimately, has to be responsible for the final document and make the appropriate changes based on comments.
I fully agree with you! Microsoft shoud develop Office for ipad quickly!!
Gawd, what a nightmare that would be!
I would like to see Apple allow iWork to save Word docs directly as PDF's though. The timing would be perfect with the iPad and the cloud, and it would drive adoption of Pages and the pages format while simultaneously outflanking Microsoft and keeping the Word doc format from dominating the web.
IMHO, absent collaborative features, iWork.com is still more an impressive curiosity than a useful Web-application.
Hopefully, Apple is edging cautiously toward a release that will finally close this gap with Google.com's offerings.
Until then, pass.
How hard is it to surpass google docs? It has no support, many of the features still don't work or are buried deep in the settings, import/ export is atrocious and everything must reside on a their cloud with no utility to synch anything. Google docs is a bastard and it won't take long at all for Apple to surpass GD. The bar is set very low.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benice
I completely agree. If Microsoft put a full version of Office (Word, Excel, PPT, Outlook etc) out for the iPad I would take it very seriously, and give it serious use as my full time home device.
Why is everyone so fixated on Office? Every program in that package is a lame duck. I mean power point over keynote? I doubt it. MSFT makes a boat load of money selling software that for the greater part hasn't been updated in 15 years. It reminds me of quark in that way. Deny that there are better and easier ways of getting the job done and let a competitor railroad you when everyone sees how easy it is to do things a new way.
The only reason google docs has gained in popularity is because office is such a POC. If MSFT had reworked the interface, added new tools and new features that are more intuitive, easier and faster to use, google would never have been able to compete. I have to say that I feel like I make about 20 or 30 more clicks than I have to every time I open word to do anything other than type and the drawing/ picture and layout tools are a joke.
I can get the same features and clunky interface for free (open office) and MSFT has given few people any reason other than perception ("I need Office") to continue to use the suite. Sure back in 1995 Office was great, better even than Apples stuff, but that is simply not the case any longer.
I would like to see Apple allow iWork to save Word docs directly as PDF's though. The timing would be perfect with the iPad and the cloud, and it would drive adoption of Pages and the pages format while simultaneously outflanking Microsoft and keeping the Word doc format from dominating the web.
So to be clear PDFs are ok, but we don't want .DOC files dominating the web?
I don't really see the difference, and I still don't see Pages doing any outflanking this year either, though it would be nice to see it get adopted much more widely.
Why is everyone so fixated on Office? Every program in that package is a lame duck. I mean power point over keynote? I doubt it. MSFT makes a boat load of money selling software that for the greater part hasn't been updated in 15 years. It reminds me of quark in that way. Deny that there are better and easier ways of getting the job done and let a competitor railroad you when everyone sees how easy it is to do things a new way.
The only reason google docs has gained in popularity is because office is such a POC. If MSFT had reworked the interface, added new tools and new features that are more intuitive, easier and faster to use, google would never have been able to compete. I have to say that I feel like I make about 20 or 30 more clicks than I have to every time I open word to do anything other than type and the drawing/ picture and layout tools are a joke.
I can get the same features and clunky interface for free (open office) and MSFT has given few people any reason other than perception ("I need Office") to continue to use the suite. Sure back in 1995 Office was great, better even than Apples stuff, but that is simply not the case any longer.
I'd agree when it comes to Powerpoint you're spot on. As for Word, the innovation has been extraordinarily limited for many years so your point holds well there too. I think you're right, everyday processes are faster in Pages.
The one big draw in Office though is Excel. Numbers cannot come close to Excel for proper spreadsheet work. That is the untouchable and unbeatable app in Office for me, despite it not changing much for years.
I dunno... If iWork.com is just a sharing service, I don't think I would be buying it. It has to at least offer collaboration services, I think. Maybe they'll roll it into Mobile Me.
Yes, iWork is great, but I am afraid I have been using Google Docs for a good few months and it is great. Yes, I rather have iWork and not google, but I definitively need Editing feature (and more when I get my iPad) as I am on the move all the time. So please Apple......get Editing on iWork for iPhone and iPad soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I beg you!!!!
Yes, iWork is great, but I am afraid I have been using Google Docs for a good few months and it is great. Yes, I rather have iWork and not google, but I definitively need Editing feature (and more when I get my iPad) as I am on the move all the time. So please Apple......get Editing on iWork for iPhone and iPad soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I beg you!!!!
I thought they already announced editing on the iPad, you just need to buy each app (Pages, Numbers, Keynote) each for 9.99, right?
Everybody else was talking about iWork.com... and how it doesn't have editing features, so you shouldn't go for iWork.com, you should go for iWork
The cool thing is that with the new iPad we'll soon have quite a few options available to us whenever we want to write something meaningful. Some of these would be on other devices too (ie the browser based ones) but it's a pretty good starting list to start trying out on the iPad.
1) iWork
2) iWork.com
3) Google Docs
4) QuickOffice App
5) Documents to Go App
6) Internet typewriter type apps (like in Bighugelabs)
7)....and whatever comes next from the other productivity software makers.
This still is a half baked effort to say the list. I really don't see why some of us who pay apple a very hefty annual sum for mobileme can't have iwork.com integrated in there. Maybe they plan to do so in the future because it's still in beta. Still, as the words mobile me would have it, being mobile is also about documents not a crappy idisk function/app solely.
So to be clear PDFs are ok, but we don't want .DOC files dominating the web?
I don't really see the difference, and I still don't see Pages doing any outflanking this year either, though it would be nice to see it get adopted much more widely.
Actually, I think there's a pretty big difference. From the PDF wiki:
Formerly a proprietary format, PDF was officially released as an open standard on July 1, 2008, and published by the International Organization for Standardization as ISO/IEC 32000-1:2008.[6][clarification needed]
Actually, I think there's a pretty big difference. From the PDF wiki:
Formerly a proprietary format, PDF was officially released as an open standard on July 1, 2008, and published by the International Organization for Standardization as ISO/IEC 32000-1:2008.[6][clarification needed]
My understanding is that a portion of PDF has been essentially an "open standard" for some time, at least since around 2000 when Apple decided to use it as the display language for OSX. They were able to do so without paying license fees to Adobe, which would have been required if they'd stuck with Postscript, as was used for the same purpose in NextStep.
My understanding is that a portion of PDF has been essentially an "open standard" for some time, at least since around 2000 when Apple decided to use it as the display language for OSX. They were able to do so without paying license fees to Adobe, which would have been required if they'd stuck with Postscript, as was used for the same purpose in NextStep.
Right. I was just explaining why I think PDFs "dominating" the internet shouldn't elicit the same negative response that .doc files do. I don't consider PDFs proprietary in the same sense that .doc is.
Comments
Virtually every decent place I've worked for is exactly the same. None of them would ever touch Numbers or iWork. Not with a ten-foot pole would I use them for work, no matter how collobarative they get in future.
Consider yourself lucky with the Gmail access as Google is a word I dare not utter inside the workplace.
I don't get why you all don't just keep your docs on MobileMe and edit from there. Haven't yet quite got the purpose of iWork.com, other than the fact it might be free. Which, you get what you pay for. . . but in this case and a potential subscription method, . . . maybe not.
IMHO, absent collaborative features, iWork.com is still more an impressive curiosity than a useful Web-application.
Hopefully, Apple is edging cautiously toward a release that will finally close this gap with Google.com's offerings.
Until then, pass.
As an author/editor/publisher, the last thing I would want is someone else revising manuscripts unilaterally.
Unless it is in collaboration with another author/editor; in the business we would submit manuscripts for markup, i.e., comments/proofing/approval. It is then somebody's duty (usually the author gets first crack) to take the suggestions under consideration, make the required changes and resubmit/re-edit until necessary.
We use iWork.com routinely to pass copy for editorial and client approval. If there is a comment or request for changes we can see it immediately, quickly dialogue with the viewer, clarify the issue if necessary and make final changes on the original manuscript. Since there is now an activity log on comments (which we file) attached to the submission, the final signature which is always on a hard copy comes a lot quicker.
Too often I have seen 'electronic collaboration' efforts fail miserably. As they say, the more cooks…spoil the broth, and the more choices…the longer it takes to make a decision.
As an author/editor/publisher, the last thing I would want is someone else revising manuscripts unilaterally.
Unless it is in collaboration with another author/editor; in the business we would submit manuscripts for markup, i.e., comments/proofing/approval. It is then somebody's duty (usually the author gets first crack) to take the suggestions under consideration, make the required changes and resubmit/re-edit until necessary.
We use iWork.com routinely to pass copy for editorial and client approval. If there is a comment or request for changes we can see it immediately, quickly dialogue with the viewer, clarify the issue if necessary and make final changes on the original manuscript. Since there is now an activity log attached to the submission, the final signature which is always on a hard copy comes a lot quicker.
Too often I have seen 'electronic collaboration' efforts fail miserably. As they say, the more cooks?spoil the broth.
I agree entirely. Every "track changes" document I've seen eventually becomes an utter disaster. Someone, ultimately, has to be responsible for the final document and make the appropriate changes based on comments.
I fully agree with you! Microsoft shoud develop Office for ipad quickly!!
Gawd, what a nightmare that would be!
I would like to see Apple allow iWork to save Word docs directly as PDF's though. The timing would be perfect with the iPad and the cloud, and it would drive adoption of Pages and the pages format while simultaneously outflanking Microsoft and keeping the Word doc format from dominating the web.
IMHO, absent collaborative features, iWork.com is still more an impressive curiosity than a useful Web-application.
Hopefully, Apple is edging cautiously toward a release that will finally close this gap with Google.com's offerings.
Until then, pass.
How hard is it to surpass google docs? It has no support, many of the features still don't work or are buried deep in the settings, import/ export is atrocious and everything must reside on a their cloud with no utility to synch anything. Google docs is a bastard and it won't take long at all for Apple to surpass GD. The bar is set very low.
I completely agree. If Microsoft put a full version of Office (Word, Excel, PPT, Outlook etc) out for the iPad I would take it very seriously, and give it serious use as my full time home device.
Why is everyone so fixated on Office? Every program in that package is a lame duck. I mean power point over keynote? I doubt it. MSFT makes a boat load of money selling software that for the greater part hasn't been updated in 15 years. It reminds me of quark in that way. Deny that there are better and easier ways of getting the job done and let a competitor railroad you when everyone sees how easy it is to do things a new way.
The only reason google docs has gained in popularity is because office is such a POC. If MSFT had reworked the interface, added new tools and new features that are more intuitive, easier and faster to use, google would never have been able to compete. I have to say that I feel like I make about 20 or 30 more clicks than I have to every time I open word to do anything other than type and the drawing/ picture and layout tools are a joke.
I can get the same features and clunky interface for free (open office) and MSFT has given few people any reason other than perception ("I need Office") to continue to use the suite. Sure back in 1995 Office was great, better even than Apples stuff, but that is simply not the case any longer.
Gawd, what a nightmare that would be!
I would like to see Apple allow iWork to save Word docs directly as PDF's though. The timing would be perfect with the iPad and the cloud, and it would drive adoption of Pages and the pages format while simultaneously outflanking Microsoft and keeping the Word doc format from dominating the web.
So to be clear PDFs are ok, but we don't want .DOC files dominating the web?
I don't really see the difference, and I still don't see Pages doing any outflanking this year either, though it would be nice to see it get adopted much more widely.
Why is everyone so fixated on Office? Every program in that package is a lame duck. I mean power point over keynote? I doubt it. MSFT makes a boat load of money selling software that for the greater part hasn't been updated in 15 years. It reminds me of quark in that way. Deny that there are better and easier ways of getting the job done and let a competitor railroad you when everyone sees how easy it is to do things a new way.
The only reason google docs has gained in popularity is because office is such a POC. If MSFT had reworked the interface, added new tools and new features that are more intuitive, easier and faster to use, google would never have been able to compete. I have to say that I feel like I make about 20 or 30 more clicks than I have to every time I open word to do anything other than type and the drawing/ picture and layout tools are a joke.
I can get the same features and clunky interface for free (open office) and MSFT has given few people any reason other than perception ("I need Office") to continue to use the suite. Sure back in 1995 Office was great, better even than Apples stuff, but that is simply not the case any longer.
I'd agree when it comes to Powerpoint you're spot on. As for Word, the innovation has been extraordinarily limited for many years so your point holds well there too. I think you're right, everyday processes are faster in Pages.
The one big draw in Office though is Excel. Numbers cannot come close to Excel for proper spreadsheet work. That is the untouchable and unbeatable app in Office for me, despite it not changing much for years.
I would like to see Apple allow iWork to save Word docs directly as PDF's though.
It can already. Just open the Word document in Pages, and either Save As or Print to a PDF.
Yes, iWork is great, but I am afraid I have been using Google Docs for a good few months and it is great. Yes, I rather have iWork and not google, but I definitively need Editing feature (and more when I get my iPad) as I am on the move all the time. So please Apple......get Editing on iWork for iPhone and iPad soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I beg you!!!!
I thought they already announced editing on the iPad, you just need to buy each app (Pages, Numbers, Keynote) each for 9.99, right?
Everybody else was talking about iWork.com... and how it doesn't have editing features, so you shouldn't go for iWork.com, you should go for iWork
1) iWork
2) iWork.com
3) Google Docs
4) QuickOffice App
5) Documents to Go App
6) Internet typewriter type apps (like in Bighugelabs)
7)....and whatever comes next from the other productivity software makers.
Apple should buy Evernote and integrate it into iWork and MobileMe, that would be amazing.
From your keyboard to Steve's eyes.
So to be clear PDFs are ok, but we don't want .DOC files dominating the web?
I don't really see the difference, and I still don't see Pages doing any outflanking this year either, though it would be nice to see it get adopted much more widely.
Actually, I think there's a pretty big difference. From the PDF wiki:
Formerly a proprietary format, PDF was officially released as an open standard on July 1, 2008, and published by the International Organization for Standardization as ISO/IEC 32000-1:2008.[6][clarification needed]
Actually, I think there's a pretty big difference. From the PDF wiki:
Formerly a proprietary format, PDF was officially released as an open standard on July 1, 2008, and published by the International Organization for Standardization as ISO/IEC 32000-1:2008.[6][clarification needed]
My understanding is that a portion of PDF has been essentially an "open standard" for some time, at least since around 2000 when Apple decided to use it as the display language for OSX. They were able to do so without paying license fees to Adobe, which would have been required if they'd stuck with Postscript, as was used for the same purpose in NextStep.
My understanding is that a portion of PDF has been essentially an "open standard" for some time, at least since around 2000 when Apple decided to use it as the display language for OSX. They were able to do so without paying license fees to Adobe, which would have been required if they'd stuck with Postscript, as was used for the same purpose in NextStep.
Right. I was just explaining why I think PDFs "dominating" the internet shouldn't elicit the same negative response that .doc files do.
I download your document, work on it, upload it.
You download my document, make changes upload it.
etc...
etc...
That seems reasonably collaborative to me.
IMHO, absent collaborative features, iWork.com is still more an impressive curiosity than a useful Web-application.
Hopefully, Apple is edging cautiously toward a release that will finally close this gap with Google.com's offerings.
Until then, pass.