GREEN PEACE. They are a business like anyone else and as a result produce waste. The real reason they are on about the ipad is that its THE hot topic right now. Im sure they are getting lots of PR from this. Damn Shills.
Yes we need to keep forest logging... how else are we going to get the wood to make clubs to kill all those baby seals....
It is my impression is that GP is not singling out Apple but rather drawing attention to the fact that huge server farms consume an awful lot of energy. A totally worthwhile point. Its easy to forget that there is a carbon footprint to computer usage.
True, except there aren't any new or additional server farms being built for the iPad; it uses the same internets that exists today, and doesn't make use of any cloud computing options that aren't already up and running. They need to be targeting Google and Microsoft, the biggest proponents of moving everything to the cloud.
Some very good posts above. Greenpeace has totally lost it here. They understand neither basic economics nor how to measure the impact of carbon footprints.
The whole Greenpeace mindset is about what's "right" from their blindered POV rather than about what works, the laws of economics, actual human behavior, and larger pictures.
To be fair, those who deny any human impact on the planet are equally blind. We are a bipolar bunch on these matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve's son
They always find something to pick apart! I can't believe I used to back such an organization...
We live and learn.
CHILDREN......
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik
As an environmentalist, I am amazed by the lame and wholly counterproductive behavior by the children over at Greenpeace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red
Grrr...
Just slow down on the breeding you complete morons!
A couple dozen children will probably use more CO2 in their lifetimes than all the iPads Apple will ever sell.
Uhhh, I believe you mean generate, not use.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
Greenpeace will not be happy as long as people inhabit the planet.
Hmmm. Let's summarize. a) So humans are the snake in the garden. (And I DO hear this regularly from my most lefty friends.) b) Only morons have children. c) And Greenpeace members were (and are) children.
Discuss among yourselves.
Quote:
Also, gotta wonder what their carbon footprint looks like.
Lotsa gov't Air Force One clones flyin' into Copenhagen, fleets of Limos and then generating more hot air from the podium. Al Gore's huge complex. Etc., etc.
But they're the GOOD guys, so that doesn't count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I would only add, also think of all the PCs used to just do e-mail and surf that might well be replaced by an iPad once people see it does everything they need. That will be a massive savings in power too. All those monitors and Dells turned off can only be a good thing
Tsk-tsk. You're talking sense. Not sure if that's still legal.
What I despise about Greenpeace is that all they do is complain. How about they offer to give some Internet company a grant for a wind-powered or solar powered server farm instead of just complaining. All greenpeace really does is complain, which is why they are ultimately innefevtive. Personally, I'm a fan of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. They spend half the money a year that Greenpeace uses for Junkmail, and they've been extremely effective in stopping, for example, Illegal Japanese Antarctic whaling.
What I despise about Greenpeace is that all they do is complain. How about they offer to give some Internet company a grant for a wind-powered or solar powered server farm instead of just complaining. All greenpeace really does is complain, which is why they are ultimately innefevtive. Personally, I'm a fan of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. They spend half the money a year that Greenpeace uses for Junkmail, and they've been extremely effective in stopping, for example, Illegal Japanese Antarctic whaling.
Oh stop your complaining! Why don't you give these angry little anti Greenpeace brethren of yours (see above) a grant so they can bottle all that wind they keep blowing?
Unfortunately, they're not Macs. They're hundreds of PC's still running XP.
The Mac labs have no problems, but the PC labs and classrooms just sit there and idle away.
My point exactly. You'd think they'd have the common sense to turn off the lights when the room is going to go unoccupied for a while, but not so.
If they are, then they're not properly implementing those measures.
Windows has power saving features also....teach them about it. Maybe they will change the settings, it's not that hard to do. It would save the school money as well, so they should do it. At least sleep the disks and turn off the monitors (hopefully you're off CRTs by now ).
Also, it doesn't take much effort to change the light switches to auto-sensing ones. That is a no-brainer.
Sometimes the population does indeed need to raise awareness to the people in charge to make changes happen faster. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say. Get some students to sign some petitions, and give them to the chair of the Tech department. Or don't. Just complain here instead and hope someday someone fixes it.
What I despise about Greenpeace is that all they do is complain. How about they offer to give some Internet company a grant for a wind-powered or solar powered server farm instead of just complaining. All greenpeace really does is complain, which is why they are ultimately innefevtive. Personally, I'm a fan of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. They spend half the money a year that Greenpeace uses for Junkmail, and they've been extremely effective in stopping, for example, Illegal Japanese Antarctic whaling.
While a nobel idea...
Solar and Wind both suffer from a similar problem... You simply can't depend on them. So, the result is either a hybrid system that farms renewable energy and selling it into the grid (and a very low cost usually and will likely never pay for itself) and continue to tap the existing electric feeds for the server farms electric needs.
The one thing you can't have especially with a server farm / data center is constant brown-outs and/or blackouts or low power conditions. The servers would be totally abused if that were to happen and unfortunately you can't maintain a truly reliable system that is switching back and forth many times in a hour between solar/wind and the utility company.
Switching systems DO exist that do this but I don't think they were engineered to withstand the stress of switching back and forth hundreds of times (or more) each day as clouds blocked the sun or the winds died down. The were likely intended for solar systems (with battery backup) that could usually run the entire 'day' and then 'switch to grid' at night when the sun goes down and the electric rates are at their lowest.
_or_
Maintain a bank of batteries large enough to ensure CONSISTENT AC power is ALWAYS available NO MATTER WHAT! Somehow I think Greenpeace would have enormous issues with any system that demanded a fleet of batteries in order to function correctly.
Windows has power saving features also....teach them about it. Maybe they will change the settings, it's not that hard to do. It would save the school money as well, so they should do it. At least sleep the disks and turn off the monitors (hopefully you're off CRTs by now ).
These are PCs idling on the pre-login screens. And yes, we're off of CRTs already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit
Also, it doesn't take much effort to change the light switches to auto-sensing ones. That is a no-brainer.
It's already been suggested. No action yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit
...Or don't. Just complain here instead and hope someday someone fixes it.
Already been mentioned to the appropriate depts. So no, I'm not just sitting here complaining about it expecting someone else to fix it. I'd do it myself, but technically, I'm not permitted to.
This what we get when Chinese wailing ships find new places to hide...
errr did you mean Japanese whaling ships instead of Chinese wailing ships?
"Main Entry: 1wail
Pronunciation: \\ˈwāl\\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English weilen, waylen, perhaps modification (influenced by Middle English weilawei wellaway) of Old Norse væla, vāla to wail; akin to Old Norse vei woe ? more at woe
These are PCs idling on the pre-login screens. And yes, we're off of CRTs already.
It's already been suggested. No action yet.
Already been mentioned to the appropriate depts. So no, I'm not just sitting here complaining about it expecting someone else to fix it. I'd do it myself, but technically, I'm not permitted to.
The power saving features are global, you don't need to be logged in.
The last bit was just a bad joke, sorry if you were offended.
My campus has dell C2D's running XP, and they have the LCD's turn off automatically after 10 mins. They are slowly but surely coming around on the green front. Not mention spinning the drives down is better for them anyway. The PC's here also shutdown after 11:30pm; the last class ends at 11pm.
Good luck getting them to change, little do they know it's for their own good!
(And I don't mean Toshiba!) I'm an avid greeny, but this sort of comment is yet more in the armoury of those who find the movement lacking in credibility. The solution to the world's woes is NOT energy saving (too complicated, impractical and expensive), but in fact to switch to renewable sustainable sources - such as solar, where it doesn't really matter how much we use. The aim should be to source energy that is clean and uncorrupt.
I shall be ordering our iPad and focusing my energies on promoting solar energy as the way forward by using it to update a forthcoming blog and eShop at LifeMachine.com. No plug intended.
The power saving features are global, you don't need to be logged in.
The last bit was just a bad joke, sorry if you were offended.
My campus has dell C2D's running XP, and they have the LCD's turn off automatically after 10 mins. They are slowly but surely coming around on the green front. Not mention spinning the drives down is better for them anyway. The PC's here also shutdown after 11:30pm; the last class ends at 11pm.
Good luck getting them to change, little do they know it's for their own good!
I just wish I could siphon off the electricity they waste, store it and run my house with it.
No offense though, just wasn't sure how you meant it.
I'll be implementing a global schedule for the A/V systems I administer so that they do pretty much the same as your PCs. BTW, what do you use to globally shut down your PCs?
True, except there aren't any new or additional server farms being built for the iPad; it uses the same internets that exists today, and doesn't make use of any cloud computing options that aren't already up and running. They need to be targeting Google and Microsoft, the biggest proponents of moving everything to the cloud.
Yes, but aren't they? They aren't 'targeting' the iPad per se. They are using the iPad as an example of increased cloud computing which makes sense. The iPad is high profile and so are using it to draw attention. I think that's pretty legit. They go out of their way to explain that they are not attacking Apple or any of the others, they are just raising awareness of the amount of energy used to run huge server farms. Don't forget that Apple is building a massive server farm / data centre. I don't know how energy efficient it is or will be but I would welcome any initiative to ensure that Apple's server farm is the greenest on the planet. If no-one makes a noise there would be less incentive for the big corporations to act. GP is in the business of making noise. It may not always be what we want to hear but I don't get all this ferocious defensiveness.
Comments
Yes we need to keep forest logging... how else are we going to get the wood to make clubs to kill all those baby seals....
I guess that would make me a lifetime member of PETP. Make what you want of it.
Damn you, nearly choked to death on my lunch I started laughing so hard.
It is my impression is that GP is not singling out Apple but rather drawing attention to the fact that huge server farms consume an awful lot of energy. A totally worthwhile point. Its easy to forget that there is a carbon footprint to computer usage.
True, except there aren't any new or additional server farms being built for the iPad; it uses the same internets that exists today, and doesn't make use of any cloud computing options that aren't already up and running. They need to be targeting Google and Microsoft, the biggest proponents of moving everything to the cloud.
Some very good posts above. Greenpeace has totally lost it here. They understand neither basic economics nor how to measure the impact of carbon footprints.
The whole Greenpeace mindset is about what's "right" from their blindered POV rather than about what works, the laws of economics, actual human behavior, and larger pictures.
To be fair, those who deny any human impact on the planet are equally blind. We are a bipolar bunch on these matters.
They always find something to pick apart! I can't believe I used to back such an organization...
We live and learn.
CHILDREN......
As an environmentalist, I am amazed by the lame and wholly counterproductive behavior by the children over at Greenpeace.
Grrr...
Just slow down on the breeding you complete morons!
A couple dozen children will probably use more CO2 in their lifetimes than all the iPads Apple will ever sell.
Uhhh, I believe you mean generate, not use.....
Greenpeace will not be happy as long as people inhabit the planet.
Hmmm. Let's summarize. a) So humans are the snake in the garden. (And I DO hear this regularly from my most lefty friends.) b) Only morons have children. c) And Greenpeace members were (and are) children.
Discuss among yourselves.
Also, gotta wonder what their carbon footprint looks like.
Lotsa gov't Air Force One clones flyin' into Copenhagen, fleets of Limos and then generating more hot air from the podium. Al Gore's huge complex. Etc., etc.
But they're the GOOD guys, so that doesn't count.
I would only add, also think of all the PCs used to just do e-mail and surf that might well be replaced by an iPad once people see it does everything they need. That will be a massive savings in power too. All those monitors and Dells turned off can only be a good thing
Tsk-tsk. You're talking sense. Not sure if that's still legal.
What I despise about Greenpeace is that all they do is complain. How about they offer to give some Internet company a grant for a wind-powered or solar powered server farm instead of just complaining. All greenpeace really does is complain, which is why they are ultimately innefevtive. Personally, I'm a fan of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. They spend half the money a year that Greenpeace uses for Junkmail, and they've been extremely effective in stopping, for example, Illegal Japanese Antarctic whaling.
Oh stop your complaining! Why don't you give these angry little anti Greenpeace brethren of yours (see above) a grant so they can bottle all that wind they keep blowing?
This what we get when Chinese wailing ships find new places to hide...
wail = cry
whale = mammal
Unfortunately, they're not Macs. They're hundreds of PC's still running XP.
The Mac labs have no problems, but the PC labs and classrooms just sit there and idle away.
My point exactly. You'd think they'd have the common sense to turn off the lights when the room is going to go unoccupied for a while, but not so.
If they are, then they're not properly implementing those measures.
Windows has power saving features also....teach them about it. Maybe they will change the settings, it's not that hard to do. It would save the school money as well, so they should do it. At least sleep the disks and turn off the monitors (hopefully you're off CRTs by now
Also, it doesn't take much effort to change the light switches to auto-sensing ones. That is a no-brainer.
Sometimes the population does indeed need to raise awareness to the people in charge to make changes happen faster. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say. Get some students to sign some petitions, and give them to the chair of the Tech department. Or don't. Just complain here instead and hope someday someone fixes it.
What I despise about Greenpeace is that all they do is complain. How about they offer to give some Internet company a grant for a wind-powered or solar powered server farm instead of just complaining. All greenpeace really does is complain, which is why they are ultimately innefevtive. Personally, I'm a fan of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. They spend half the money a year that Greenpeace uses for Junkmail, and they've been extremely effective in stopping, for example, Illegal Japanese Antarctic whaling.
While a nobel idea...
Solar and Wind both suffer from a similar problem... You simply can't depend on them. So, the result is either a hybrid system that farms renewable energy and selling it into the grid (and a very low cost usually and will likely never pay for itself) and continue to tap the existing electric feeds for the server farms electric needs.
The one thing you can't have especially with a server farm / data center is constant brown-outs and/or blackouts or low power conditions. The servers would be totally abused if that were to happen and unfortunately you can't maintain a truly reliable system that is switching back and forth many times in a hour between solar/wind and the utility company.
Switching systems DO exist that do this but I don't think they were engineered to withstand the stress of switching back and forth hundreds of times (or more) each day as clouds blocked the sun or the winds died down. The were likely intended for solar systems (with battery backup) that could usually run the entire 'day' and then 'switch to grid' at night when the sun goes down and the electric rates are at their lowest.
_or_
Maintain a bank of batteries large enough to ensure CONSISTENT AC power is ALWAYS available NO MATTER WHAT! Somehow I think Greenpeace would have enormous issues with any system that demanded a fleet of batteries in order to function correctly.
wail = cry
whale = mammal
Excellent post. I think I broke a blood vessel in my eye laughing. To think of you reading wail....and then
Hilarious.
Windows has power saving features also....teach them about it. Maybe they will change the settings, it's not that hard to do. It would save the school money as well, so they should do it. At least sleep the disks and turn off the monitors (hopefully you're off CRTs by now
These are PCs idling on the pre-login screens. And yes, we're off of CRTs already.
Also, it doesn't take much effort to change the light switches to auto-sensing ones. That is a no-brainer.
It's already been suggested. No action yet.
...Or don't. Just complain here instead and hope someday someone fixes it.
Already been mentioned to the appropriate depts. So no, I'm not just sitting here complaining about it expecting someone else to fix it. I'd do it myself, but technically, I'm not permitted to.
This what we get when Chinese wailing ships find new places to hide...
errr did you mean Japanese whaling ships instead of Chinese wailing ships?
"Main Entry: 1wail
Pronunciation: \\ˈwāl\\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English weilen, waylen, perhaps modification (influenced by Middle English weilawei wellaway) of Old Norse væla, vāla to wail; akin to Old Norse vei woe ? more at woe
Date: 14th century
intransitive verb
1 : to express sorrow audibly : lament
2 : to make a sound suggestive of a mournful cry
3 : to express dissatisfaction plaintively: complain" @http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wailing
These are PCs idling on the pre-login screens. And yes, we're off of CRTs already.
It's already been suggested. No action yet.
Already been mentioned to the appropriate depts. So no, I'm not just sitting here complaining about it expecting someone else to fix it. I'd do it myself, but technically, I'm not permitted to.
The power saving features are global, you don't need to be logged in.
The last bit was just a bad joke, sorry if you were offended.
My campus has dell C2D's running XP, and they have the LCD's turn off automatically after 10 mins. They are slowly but surely coming around on the green front. Not mention spinning the drives down is better for them anyway. The PC's here also shutdown after 11:30pm; the last class ends at 11pm.
Good luck getting them to change, little do they know it's for their own good!
(And I don't mean Toshiba!) I'm an avid greeny, but this sort of comment is yet more in the armoury of those who find the movement lacking in credibility. The solution to the world's woes is NOT energy saving (too complicated, impractical and expensive), but in fact to switch to renewable sustainable sources - such as solar, where it doesn't really matter how much we use. The aim should be to source energy that is clean and uncorrupt.
I shall be ordering our iPad and focusing my energies on promoting solar energy as the way forward by using it to update a forthcoming blog and eShop at LifeMachine.com. No plug intended.
Agreed.
The power saving features are global, you don't need to be logged in.
The last bit was just a bad joke, sorry if you were offended.
My campus has dell C2D's running XP, and they have the LCD's turn off automatically after 10 mins. They are slowly but surely coming around on the green front. Not mention spinning the drives down is better for them anyway. The PC's here also shutdown after 11:30pm; the last class ends at 11pm.
Good luck getting them to change, little do they know it's for their own good!
I just wish I could siphon off the electricity they waste, store it and run my house with it.
No offense though, just wasn't sure how you meant it.
I'll be implementing a global schedule for the A/V systems I administer so that they do pretty much the same as your PCs. BTW, what do you use to globally shut down your PCs?
True, except there aren't any new or additional server farms being built for the iPad; it uses the same internets that exists today, and doesn't make use of any cloud computing options that aren't already up and running. They need to be targeting Google and Microsoft, the biggest proponents of moving everything to the cloud.
Yes, but aren't they? They aren't 'targeting' the iPad per se. They are using the iPad as an example of increased cloud computing which makes sense. The iPad is high profile and so are using it to draw attention. I think that's pretty legit. They go out of their way to explain that they are not attacking Apple or any of the others, they are just raising awareness of the amount of energy used to run huge server farms. Don't forget that Apple is building a massive server farm / data centre. I don't know how energy efficient it is or will be but I would welcome any initiative to ensure that Apple's server farm is the greenest on the planet. If no-one makes a noise there would be less incentive for the big corporations to act. GP is in the business of making noise. It may not always be what we want to hear but I don't get all this ferocious defensiveness.